Bridging Course Hours??????

[BRASSEMUP]

Gents,

There’s a lot of chat around the crew rooms about the Bridging Course hours requirements dropping to 1500! Does anybody have the definitive answer?

Thanks:ok:

[abbotyobs]

I would be very keen to know if this is the case since having between 1500 and 2000, I am just about to start the long haul of all the exams.

Being a FJ mate these days you do not acrue the hours, as you once did when BEagle and others set up the excellent scheme with the CAA.
Certainly if you read LASORS 2007 the 2000 hours still stand.
Cheers

[timex]

I think it's still 2000, however I've heard that the CAA will "haggle" on an individual basis. Believe a guy from the AAC has done this?

[Runaway Gun]

When he 'haggled' was he pointing an Apache at the CAA office by any chance?


I bet aiming a Grob would have little effect...

[vortexadminman]

OK I was down at CAA two weeks ago. I had heard that the hours were coming down to 1500. Clearly I do not need this or else why would I be there doing the exams. However if it is any help I was asking on behalf of a mate ( yes a real one) and the bloke who was strangely helpful said NO. As it stands it is 2000TT. The CAA had had chats and brews with MoD on the matter but as of two weeks ago the MoD had not approached them in a formal request to lower the hours or so he said.... Hope the rumour about the AAC bloke getting through is true but I can't verify that. Good luck all.

[mbga9pgf]

Quick question to you chaps on the mil bridge course, what aircraft do you do your CPL (IR) on as you do not have a ME Type rated aircraft to complete your IR on?

And how much does it cost?

[BRASSEMUP]

I think the Navy chaps can qualify with Seaking(not too sure thou), but the rest of us.......Well what ever is the cheapest! Still looking at spending about £20k thou.

[GipsyMagpie]

I believe someone is getting their wires crossed. 1500 hrs does come into it but that's P1 on either fixed wing or rotary depending on licence (CPL(A) or CPL(H)). 2000 hrs total still stands and if you do some digging you realise the 2000 hrs is set as it is so that you have enough hrs for a full ATPL! I know you only get a CPL(H) but if you do a quick IR (!!!) you go straight to ATPL(H). Minimum hrs 2000, which I don't reckon will change otherwise you'd have ex military types jumping up over civvies. 2000 hrs it is then. Any Q's READ LASORS!!!!!!

[L'WAAPAM]

Gypo

You will only get ATPL after your IR if you have done a Multi Engine, Multi Crew type rating AND IR check. Eg S76, 61, 92, EC155, 225 etc etc. AS355, EC135 etc do not qualify under JAA as MULTI CREW.:ugh:

Cheers

L'

[will fly for food 06]

I read in lasors the seaking isnt covered for civilian type rating from mil experience

[Eight Eights Blue]

If its any help, I know a guy in the AAC who did haggle and got it his licences done through bridging.

1. Simulator hours count towards total alledgedly.
2. Licence can be frozen until 2000hrs is reached so you start before hand.

Speak to Noush at Bristol GS, she is in the know and very helpful.

[Alex Whittingham]

We haven't heard anything about the requirements dropping to 1500hrs total, I'm afraid.

You need to read LASORS very carefully if you are on the edge of qualifying. I haven't a copy in front of me but, from memory, you need 2000hrs in military aircraft and 1500 PIC (fixed wing) or P1(rotary). Of the 1500 hours 500 can be made up of P1/US and sim (I'll need to check that last bit).

The FAQs are:

Q. Can I start before I hit the hours totals?
A. Difficult to say. LASORS don't say when you need the hours except you evidently must have them at the point of licence issue. Our view is that you must be at least in spitting distance of the totals so that, when you finish your groundschool you should have the hours. No, we haven't asked the CAA.

Q. Can I fudge my hours with taxy times?
A. No. These are logged military hours.

Q. I have a mix of fixed wing and rotary that exceeds the totals but I don't qualify for either. What can I do?
A. E-mail the CAA at [email protected] and make your case. They usually let you take the bridging exams that pertain to your current job, fixed wing or rotary.

Q. I'm a QSP(H). I want both rotary and fixed wing licences, what do I do?
A. Do the military bridging (H), get the license issued, then bridge again from CPL(H) or ATPL(H) to ATPL(A) by taking P of F(A), Performance and another bridging exam - this time a CAA paper.

[MINself]

I too have heard of this guy who had less than 2000hrs TT that was allowed to complete the bridging package.

I believe the angle was that this persons had completed 22 years service but did not have 2000hrs TT. This persons went flying late on in their 22 year army career so stood little, if no chance of getting 2000hrs TT so after much asking of the CAA and HQ DAAvn eventually someone said Okay we'll let you qualify for the bridging package with your slighlty less than 2000hrs TT. The CAA were always willing to allow this person dispensation from the full ATPL exams because the 2000hrs TT was set by the CAA but after advice from the MOD and based on a "normal" flying rate and return of service after wings, which assumed that you could get the required hours before reaching 22 years service.

Just goes to show if you don't ask you don't get :D

MS :ok:

[DownloadDog]

Quick question to you chaps on the mil bridge course, what aircraft do you do your CPL (IR) on as you do not have a ME Type rated aircraft to complete your IR on?

And how much does it cost?


It doesn't matter if you're on the bridging course or have done all 14 written exams, the flying required to get your CPL/IR is the same. For fixed wing, you'll need to do the IR in a twin engined aircraft. Thus, to do the IR you will need to do a short course in a twin-engined aircraft, most schools offer the Duchess or a Seneca. You will have to do a minimum of 6 hours to get the Multi Engine Piston (MEP) class rating. You then have to do a short course of IR training, at the discretion of the CFI, to prepare for your IR. You can also expect to go into a sim (FNPT2 type) to gain a little extra practice.

Cost wise, you are looking at:

MEP (6 hours) approx £2500
IR training and sim £2400
IR test and fees £1000

So if you have ELCs, you're talking approximately £5000, if you're on resettlement you can also use the £534. Expect to take 1.5 - 3 weeks depending on the weather.

[BEagle]

No, Alex, simulator time is not allowable. The LASORS references state quite clearly that the time must be on 'aeroplanes' or 'helicopters' and no reference is made to synthetic devices.

I'm not sure where the 2000TT came from; my advice to the people setting up the scheme was to use 1500hrs PIC for the ATPL(A) because that is the figure required for anyone to convert a 'national' licence to a JAR-FCL licence - and I considered anyone who had 1500 hrs PIC on ME aeroplanes should be treated the same whether military or civilian.

I would strongly recommend that the rather unreasonable 2000TT is binned but that all other LASORS D3.3 'Experienced QSP' qualifying criteria should remain.

[sarboy w****r]

What LASORS is not clear on when it states:
To qualify for theoretical knowledge examination
credits under the Rotary accreditation scheme, a
QSP(H) shall have completed:

A minimum of 2000 hours* flying experience on
military aircraft, including at least 1500 hours** as
1st pilot of helicopters (can incl. max. 500 hours
under supervision, as P2 or in a flight simulator).

* As recorded in service logbook i.e. excluding any
taxi-time allowances
is whether the 2000 hours can include up to 500 hours sim time etc, or whether the 1500 hours can have up to 500 hours sim time, or both.

I think it's the first option, but can anybody shed any definitive light on this please?

I could argue that the sim time I have is recorded in my service logbook...

SBW

[SilsoeSid]

When I went through my bridging in 2002, you needed 2000hrs in section 5 column 7 of your log book.
That is, 'total flying, columns 1-6', which means not including sim time.
A minimum of 2000 hours* flying experience on military aircraft,
(Is a simulator a military aircraft in the LASORS definition given above??)
The 1500 hrs could however include sim time.

A call to the FCL dept will surely clear it up, ;) however it also seems a bit strange that there are 'individual cases' out there. :suspect:
Is the tgda site still working?

[abbotyobs]

Did anybody speak to FCL and get an answer on the above?
Thanks

[Gaspode the Dog]

It is tempting to suggest you "get some time in" but then I have been around for some time! The most stupid CAA rule is the min of 500hrs on type to get an accepted type on your ATPL(H) CPL(H). I have about 200hrs on the Gazelle and can't put it on my licence, but if I shell out £5000 I can get the A109 on after 6hrs, where is the logic in that?:ugh:

[The Ferret]

I read in lasors the seaking isnt covered for civilian type rating from mil experience
Will Fly For Food 06! After completing my Military Bridging Course (2000hrs min and 1500hrs PIC) and taking my 2 CAA exams in 2004 the CAA opened my CPL(H) on the SeaKing listed as a National Rating - I then added other types on to the Rating section of the license!
F:cool: :cool: :cool:

[abbotyobs]

Did anyone hear if the Mil Bridging hours requirement is coming down to 1500 hours in total in the future.
What I mean is that Column 6 in the RAF logbook can be 1500 rather than the 2000 necessary at present.
I only ask since I am about to commit considerable funds and time into the full 14 exams and If I knew the amount was reducing to 1500, it would help a lot.
I have asked fcl but I am still waiting on an answer.
There is no help either on the tgda website.
Thanks

[vortexadminman]

Nope sorry, I was there and asked them at present still stand stand at 2000. There was talk between CAA and Mil but nothing yet or near future , that was from CAA about two weeks ago sorry to be bearer of bad news.

[abbotyobs]

Thanks for the answer.
If there was a decision that the total would reduce in 12 months time to 1500or for Lasors 2008, then that would be excellent, but I guess I will just have to wait and see.
Cheers

[BRASSEMUP]

I originally started this thread for a friend of mine who asked me the same question, and he wrote to FCL and got fobbed off, with his 1700 hours. Shame really, alot of other countries give their military pilots a freebie! Not UK plc!!!!!:ugh:

[Junglie]

I had a mix of rotary and fixed wing(fast jet) about 1000 hours of each.
Total time exceeded 2000 (just) and yet PIC was about 35 below 1500, after a bit of haggling with the CAA through phone calls and emails i was allowed to take the fixed wing bridging exams.
So my advice would be approach the CAA direct and beg !!