Just read the following and was wondering is it the end for Mugabe and what happens if god forbid,he was replaced with someone worse,if that's possible.
Quote"
Britain is trying to stoke up pressure in the United Nations and European Union for tough reprisals against Zimbabwe's leadership after a crackdown on the opposition, Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett said on Thursday.
Beckett said Britain wanted direct action against those responsible for the detention and beating of opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai and others, and was also seeking to persuade European leaders to extend recently renewed sanctions.
"We are pushing for ... the human rights council at the United Nations to take an urgent look at Zimbabwe," Beckett told reporters, adding what happened next would be a real test of the council.
She said British officials had also been "working the phones" to persuade EU colleagues into action.
"We want to identify as accurately as we can who are the key people who were involved in the violence over the last few days and make sure that they are on this visa ban list that the EU has ... to make it clear that if you're engaged in that kind of thuggery this is a problem for you, not just for your country."
The 27-nation EU last month extended for another year its sanctions on Zimbabwe, including an arms embargo, travel ban and asset freeze on President Robert Mugabe and other top officials.
Mugabe has ruled Zimbabwe since independence from Britain in 1980.
Beckett said she hoped the treatment of opposition figures in Zimbabwe would now prompt European countries to take further action.
"We will also be talking to colleagues about how we can make the EU targeted measures more effective than they are now," she said.
"We have rolled over our sanctions. I think the EU perhaps could have said more and hopefully now it will. I'd be very surprised if there isn't more pressure now. In fact we're doing what we can to stoke it up."
The United States said on Wednesday it was looking at additional sanctions it might impose on Harare. It has already placed financial and visa restrictions on some individuals as well as banning transfers of military supplies and suspending non-humanitarian aid to the government.
But some senior U.N. and European officials have warned that stepping up sanctions on Zimbabwe could end up hurting the country's citizens more than its leaders.
"Sanctions have to be weighed very carefully because of experiences we've had in the past whereby sanctions have had a counter-productivity against innocent citizens of a particular country," U.N. Deputy Secretary-General Asha-Rose Migiro told reporters in Brussels.
Reuters"

he has been in power this long after doing much worse, nothing will change, he will die of old age in power, oppressing and killing every opponent to the very end..:yuk:

Pity there's no oil fields in Zimbabwe. This old baboon would have been sorted out years ago.

Most certainly a problem which should have been sorted decades ago.

An object lesson in how to ruin a once prosperous country and apply terrorism to your own citizens.

Vile trash.

One heard quotes from His Excellence that it was considered acceptable to slap-around the opposition leaders . . .

mini has many bonds with Zim. This breaks his heart.

However, don't think all this will end with the end of "Uncle Bob"

It may change but it won't improve much. The damage has been done.

He has already sold most of the country to China - just as most of Burma/Myanmar has been sold to the same gentlemen .....

he damage has been done. Alas, it is not finished yet. As to who is financing him, the Chinese come to mind...

Reuters - Cape Town - Zimbabwe's economic collapse is likely to accelerate with inflation topping 5 000% by year-end as President Robert Mugabe's government loses control of a crisis already rippling across Africa, a senior IMF official said on Sunday. International Monetary Fund Africa Director Abdoulaye Bio-Tchane said Zimbabwe's government had shown little sign of coming to grips with its mounting economic problems, promising more hardships amid sharply rising political tensions.

"It depends on how much the people in the country can take," Bio-Tchane told Reuters in an interview. "The question is how far it could fall. The last four years we've seen GDP falling by more than 35%. Inflation is running at more than 1700% and our estimate is by the year's end it could move even beyond 5000%."..........

Bio-Tchane said Mugabe and Zimbabwe Central Bank Governor Gideon Gono appeared unable to stem the economic slide, which has turned one of Africa's most promising economies into a basket case beset by frequent shortages of food, fuel and foreign exchange. "It is one step forward, two steps back," he said, saying Gono was fuelling the crisis by expanding the already enormous fiscal deficit to some 40% of GDP this year, printing floods of new cash and subsidising struggling state-run firms.

"They need to rein this in," he said. "But obviously they need more than that. You can't let the economy function if people are not free to operate, if their rights are not secured, including human rights. You will always find a few people who will benefit from this system, so therefore it may continue. I can't give a date when the whole thing will stop or collapse. But it will certainly continue falling. This will continue impoverishing people, people will continue losing their jobs, continue losing their purchasing power."

Bio-Tchane said Zimbabwe's woes were already felt across Africa as millions of economic refugees stream out of the country, mostly to neighbouring South Africa, while economic growth is hampered by the loss of regional trade and investment opportunities. "It's holding the sub-region back, and it is holding the whole Africa region back," he said. "This was a booming economy, this was a net exporter of goods and services in the past. Now exports are falling. It is a country that is a net importer today."

He added that it appeared some countries were helping to bankroll Mugabe through loans or other deals. "We don't have evidence of the sources, but clearly they are getting some financing," he said.

The Chinese... these gentlemen have become the new "colonisers" of Africa. Note the monument in the roundabout at Bole in Addis for example...

Spoke to a Chinese gent who was running the cement factory in Gweru (Zim) a few years ago - in the DA's office. He was thowing in the towel & heading home.

Still, they persevere. ZA next?

E-ba-gum is Mugabe spelled backwards!:};)

Cure for Mugabe the asshole......
Several 1,000 lb bombs into his residences and the parliament....then do it again. Then target his motorcade with a couple of A10's. There will be collateral damage. All the talking in the UN won't make a bit of difference....talk...talk...talk....useless.

E-ba-gum is Mugabe spelt backwards!But will it 'turn out nice again' for Zimbabwe?

Was staying at the Pamuzinda safari lodge on one visit to Zimbabwe and on the first morning I woke to find the place surrounded by armed military. Apparently the mongrel was to have lunch there that day and all the guests were herded to another part of the lodge. He was there to "celebrate" the signing of a mining deal between an Aus. company and the Zim Govt. since collapsed like everything else.

Hard to do anything really without hurting the people of Zim even further.
That spineless Mbeki holds the key to the mess because without his support, Mugabe would have been history years ago.:ugh:

One hates to say it but if Mugabe is toppled and Morgan Ts-thingy takes over then it is likely to be more of the same with old scores being settled.

Africa? Dig a deep pit around the whole lot and sink it.

Let us out first before you pull the plug, Allan mate.:ooh: Don't know where we'll go, though...:(

Filling stations around the Zim side of Vic Falls haven't had fuel for two years now, with folks who can afford to just going over the border to Livingstone to fill up and buy groceries.

The lack of action perturbs me, particularly in light of the undignified scramble by the UK to get an already gently frothing Mad Bob into power, and the rejection of the moderate candidate, Abel Muzorewa.

As for Mbeki and his not so covert support of Mugarbage...:yuk:

With this clown in charge, SA is next.:(

http://iafrica.com/news/specialreport/zimbabwe/

CAPE TOWN

Mbeki's 'inaction' to blame for Zim

Fri, 16 Mar 2007

President Thabo Mbeki's "dithering, inaction and often tacit support" are largely to blame for the current bloody shambles in Zimbabwe, says Democratic Alliance leader Tony Leon.

"Let me put this bluntly: much of the blame for the present lamentable condition of Zimbabwe must be laid at President Mbeki's door," he said in his weekly newsletter, published on the DA's SA Today website on Friday.
For reasons of sentiment as well as practicality, Mbeki was the one person outside Zimbabwe with the greatest possible leverage over its president, Robert Mugabe.

"We are that country's biggest trading partner and, as rotating chair of the United Nations Security Council this month, able to place the matter squarely on the world's agenda.

"Yet Mr Mbeki's dithering, inaction and often tacit support have let us all down — both the people of Zimbabwe and the people of South Africa, who live every day with the disastrous consequences of Mugabe's wrong-headed policies," Leon said.

His sharply critical comments come in the wake of the arrest, beating and torture last weekend of Zimbabwe opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai by members of Mugabe's security establishment.

"While the world condemned [this], the African Union confessed to being 'embarrassed' by Zimbabwe [and] for two days, South Africa remained deafeningly silent.

"On Tuesday, foreign affairs spokesman Ronnie Mamoepa issued a bland if not wholly predictable statement: Zimbabwe's problems should be solved by the people of that country.

"Amid justifiable howls of outrage, Deputy Foreign Minister Aziz Pahad sounded a little tougher: he urged the Zimbabwe government to 'respect the rights of all Zimbabweans and leaders of various political parties'.

'Damage to our tarnished reputation has been done'

"Yet the damage to our already tarnished reputation as an honest broker in the Zimbabwean conflict had been done. Pahad's statement was too little, way too late."

Leon said Mbeki had ensured Zimbabwe was provided with a steady supply of electricity and fuel, "despite Mugabe's inability to pay his bills and his continued economic mismanagement".

In June 2003, Mbeki had explicitly promised the World Economic Forum the Zimbabwe crisis would be resolved "within a year" and that talks between Zanu-PF and the opposition Movement for Democratic Change were taking place -- a claim that was furiously denied by both parties.

In July that year, Mbeki had gone further, reportedly promising United States President George W Bush that Mugabe would "step down" by December, and assuring him: "We have urged the government and the opposition to get together. They are indeed discussing all issues. That process is going on".
Hindsight confirmed Mbeki had been "merely drawing the heat off Mugabe and buying him time".

South Africa had said little despite the naked assault on civil liberties and free political action in Zimbabwe, a clamp-down on the courts and the media, Mugabe's ransacking of the public purse, and the wholesale perversion of land "reform" in the interests of Mugabe's cronies.

"Most telling of all has been our government's continuous policy of whitewashing the shamelessly rigged elections there in 2002 and 2005.
Mbeki had warmly congratulated Mugabe
"While foreign observer missions — including the DA's — condemned these ruthless exercises in state terror, Mr Mbeki and the ANC hailed them both as legitimate, warmly congratulating Mugabe on 'a convincing majority win' and a 'peaceful, credible and well-organised election which we feel reflects the will of the people'.

"In what Orwellian world of doublespeak could the bloody shambles to our north... be described as peaceful, never mind credible or well-organised?" Leon asked.

He called for urgent action on Zimbabwe, including condemnation of the weekend arrest of Tsvangirai by South Africa, the imposition of "smart sanctions" against Mugabe, and the facilitation of talks between the two factions of the MDC and the ruling Zanu-PF.

"The South African government's record in aiding and abetting the Mugabe regime is a shameful blot on our international reputation. We stand culpable of sustaining the life of one of the world's most despotic regimes," Leon said.

Sapa

If Bob were ousted tomorrow and a competent government put in place it would take around 20 years to get back to year 2000 levels.

Look at the mess, highest rate of inflation in the world at 1700% and increasing, next highest is Burma on 60%. Hourly price increases on the cards by May.

Fastest shrinking economy in the world outside of a war zone, even if the country was at war the rate of decline would still be unusually high.

Who would replace him ? Morgan doesn't have the brains to sort things out. Prehaps it will be someone from the military or his own party who will be interested soley in lining his or her own pockets and incapable of putting things back on track. If only Ian Smith were younger he could take on the challenge, I'm sure the population would welcome him with open arms.

Would all those whinging liberals from the 1970s who campaigned so hard for "Black Majority Rule" please step foward.:yuk:

I read in the Times that the cost of a house brick today would have bought a 3 bedroom house, with swimming pool, in 1990.

"......millions of economic refugees stream out of the country, mostly to neighbouring South Africa...."

Yeah, great, just what we need.

Half of the rest of pathetic, shambolic, ruined Africa streaming down to stuff up the one functional economy on the continent.

Triffic...

Hmmm....Mugabe's link with the Chinese sounds a bit dodgy.




Could they be the chink in his armour?




;)

Metro man said:

Would all those whinging liberals from the 1970s who campaigned so hard for "Black Majority Rule" please step foward.


Here, here:D

Maybe Mr Hain would like to be the first and act as government spokesman.

Chinese already well entrenched in Africa.

Colonialism? You ain't seen nuthin' yet.....:rolleyes:

Every tinpot dictatorship has a tipping point. One day there is no sign of it, the next day it is there. The madman takes note of the winds of change and even the maddest of them suddenly realise their bluster is not going to fool people much longer.

While they still have friends who will fly them out of the country to enjoy the ill-gotten billions they have stolen from their countrymen they will steal away. An 83 year old billionaire; let's hope that like Marcos's stolen wealth the country can retrieve some of it and start the long painful process of rebuilding.

The whole episode has been heartbreaking; this country wasn't a basket case for ever like so many other African countries; it was a jewel, and once again we are faced the evidence of what a rampant ego can destroy.

The longest journey starts with a small step. It's going to be a journey spanning many generations if Zimbabwe is ever to recover, but I suspect the first step is in sight. Get rid of this murderous tyrannical despicable thug and his henchmen by any means possible. The people of Zimbabwe are not riven by religious divisions as are the Iraqis; they are united by fear and hunger. Give them a chance and they will fight together.

Interesting article in the, OK, Daily Mail today; http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/columnists/columnists.html?in_page_id=1772&in_article_id=443104&in_author_id=227 . I thought it rather pleasant to hear a good word(ish) said about Smithy.

The lack of action perturbs me, particularly in light of the undignified scramble by the UK to get an already gently frothing Mad Bob into power, and the rejection of the moderate candidate, Abel Muzorewa.Interesting archived report from the grauniad, it seems they thought mugabe and his ilk were smart cookies. Love the un PC comments by the squaddies !

http://www.guardian.co.uk/zimbabwe/article/0,2763,211420,00.html

Back in the late 80's in London I had a boss who married a Zimbabwean, and she gave up her well paid job to move to Zim to bring up their children on her husband's farm. We all said she was barking mad to do so, but she said that Mugabe would never ever ever touch the white farmers as they brought in the foreign exchange that Mugabe needed to steal to maintain his position. Well, seems like they made a rather bad call on that one. Shame really, they had a great lifestyle, while it lasted.

By "black majority rule" I assume you mean democracy - which is that quality so lauded in the new Iraq? So democracy is fine so long as you like the results?

No, there's nothing inherently wrong with black majority rule. The problem is with the ruler.

XXT
"No, there's nothing inherently wrong with black majority rule. The problem is with the ruler."
If we are talking about the same Africa.. The one on planet Earth then you may want to rethink that. The thing wrong with it is it has never been successful and the "rulers" are of the same stock and do the same things to "their own people", then replaced by one of the same who needs some money. That does not mean that White rule is any better either.
Although any civilized part of that continent has been formed by "whitey". Now that he has, for the most part, been replaced, the slide back begins...........but thats the way it goes.
Last one leaving turn out the lights,(even though there may be no electricity)

By the way unless you live in Iraq, I dont think your going to know the difference between then and now. Then, you wouldnt have been able to post here.

Zimbabwe has a superb President-in-waiting - her name is Sekai Holland.

lanciaspezzata - Recent news re Sekai Holland is as follows:-

Sunday, March 18, 2007 7:47 PM
EVER GREATER THUGGERY

I have very little idea of the sort of coverage you've been getting outside Zimbabwe of recent events here.

But here's the story of what happened to one of the MDC's top officials, Sekai Holland (born a Hove of Belingwe /Mberengwa - and, for the oldies with long memories, a daughter of M. M. Hove, well-known in the far-off days of "partnership" as one of the first specially elected African members of the Federal Parliament). She's a veteran nationalist campaigner - used to be ZANU, knows everyone from Mugabe down. I think the late Byron Hove was a brother. Anyway, she's decidedly not the sort of person to be involved in a party that's merely a front for the devilish designs (I think that was Mugabe's phrase in today's rant just seen on TV) of Britain and other Western powers. The narrator is her Australian husband, Jim Holland. Those of you in Australia will have probably have heard specifically of her present ordeal in view of her strong and long-standing Australian connections.

Hi all

I am sending this to everyone who knows Sekai or has written to me about her that I have in my address book. If I have sent this to anyone that it is not relevant to, please accept my apologies and let me know so that I can remove you from this mailing list.

My wife, Sekai Holland, is a 64-year old grandmother. For the crime of being a member of the opposition MDC in Zimbabwe she has suffered one of the most brutal attacks imaginable at the hands of the ZANU-PF regime's sadistic thugs.

Sekai's ordeal began when she and fellow activist Grace Kwinjeh went to Harare's Highfield Police Station looking for those who had been arrested for trying to attend a Zimbabwe prayer vigil last Sunday. When they arrived they were told the others were in the yard at the back, and they were then taken to the yard and locked in with those already detained. Then the beatings started. Initially there was a mass beating of everyone there - over a hundred people who were forced to lie on the ground while they were viciously attacked. Later Sekai and the other members of the MDC leadership were called in one by one to the charge office where they were made to repeatedly run a gauntlet of thugs who beat them mercilessly.

Sekai was first hit in the face, her glasses being smashed to start with. Her earrings and watch were ripped off. Then she was hit with a variety of weapons, including clubs and batons. They kept accusing her of being United Kingdom PM Tony Blair's girlfriend - to which she responded "No - he is my son - how can you call me his girlfriend?" That naturally didn't go down well. The beatings went on and on over a period of hours. A woman repeatedly jumped on her with booted feet - fracturing or breaking three of her ribs. Her clothes were covered in blood - both her own and that of others suffering the same brutality. She passed out several times.

At one stage one of the torturers left the room and was then called back by another who said "What about her legs?". He then used some instrument to break her leg, after which they forced her to stand up and hobble around on it. When satisfied that they had indeed broken it they left. The team of torturers was apparently trying to break her spirit by inflicting the maximum amount of pain.

From Highfield Sekai was taken first to Central Police Station and then to the suburban Avondale station. At Avondale when she was ordered to get out of the high prison truck she replied that she was unable to do so due to her injuries, so they pushed her out and she fell and landed hard on her head, adding to the injuries she already had.

Sekai spent two full days in detention without medical treatment. She suffered filthy conditions without proper sanitation, and with numerous injuries. When the courts finally forced the police to take the injured for medical treatment, it was first thought that she had a broken arm and foot, as well as the massive bruising over most of her body. Later on they discovered that she in fact had a broken leg not foot, and that she also had three broken or fractured ribs as well as a fractured knee.

I managed to get back to Harare from Tanzania on the evening of the day Sekai was admitted to hospital. The place was still crawling with riot police, and the atmosphere was very tense. However a local human rights organisation (Amani Trust) had managed to negotiate proper treatment for all the injured and Sekai was put into very good medical hands.

A doctor friend of ours was visiting from Australia and paid her a visit before I arrived. However he was caught using a camera and was then arrested and interrogated by the police for many hours before being released without charge. Apparently they thought he was a journalist.

Sekai was in excellent spirits when I finally saw her, in spite of being so sadistically brutalised. She said that neither she nor any of the other leaders she saw being battered uttered any cries - and that must have infuriated the torturers. In the end the sadists were the ones who failed. In frustration they apparently made the bizarre boast that they were being paid a million dollars (admittedly only USD100 or so now) by (Reserve Bank Governor) Gono to carry out the beatings, plus an extra $100,000 a day for their meal allowances. That gives you an indication of the mentality of those hired by the regime.

Since her admission to hospital Sekai has had surgery to insert pins in her broken leg and arm. That operation went well, but she will need specialist treatment outside the country for the fractured knee.

I think that the regime has massively miscalculated with this brutality. Messages of solidarity have been coming in from all over the world, and I can see this leading to real pressure on the neighbouring African countries who have shielded Mugabe and his regime for so long.
The most moving development of all for us has been to hear of the support coming from so many members of the Australian Aboriginal community with whom Sekai campaigned over the elimination of Apartheid and other colonial regimes in Africa, and in support of Aboriginal Land Rights back in the 1970s. They say they are not going to let this pass without action that may surprise everyone.

Regards Jim

SWRadioAfrica: (http://www.swradioafrica.com/News190307/Angola.htm) Angola to deploy 3000 police militia to help Zimbabwe police
19 March 2007.

Details of a public order and security agreement between the government of Zimbabwe and Angola last week remain shrouded in mystery. Online news website Talk Zimbabwe.com reports that Angola will send 3000 of its notorious police militia within weeks to ‘boost the Zimbabwe Republic Police force which has suffered massive desertions in the past few years.’ The website says ‘the MPLA government has a powerful police militia that is used to quell local disorder,’ and that the same militia was used in Angola’s civil war and have a reputation for brutal tactics.

The state media in Zimbabwe did not report on this part of the story. A ZBC Newsnet story confirmed that General Roberto Leal Ramos Montero, Angola’s home affairs minister, signed a cooperation agreement with his counterpart Kembo Mohadi that would help to ‘reduce criminal activity.’ Newsnet quoted Mohadi saying ‘the agreement will curb leakages of precious minerals and human trafficking, among other crimes.’ Also present at the signing ceremony was the deputy minister of home affairs Obert Matshalaga, permanent secretary Melusi Matshiya, and commissioner of police Augustine Chihuri.

Talk Zimbabwe.com however say Monteiro, in announcing his sympathy for Zimbabwean police, pledged to supply over 3000 police militia, ‘to help with quelling violence and maintaining law and order in Zimbabwe.’ His pledge was made during a closed-door ceremony which Talk Zimbabwe.com say they had access to. Analysts have also pointed out that even if the militia are not immediately deployed, the deal effectively puts them at Mugabe’s disposal should he ever need them. There is also further speculation that Mugabe might be trying to counter the influence retired General Solomon Mujuru has in the army and that by bringing in foreign security forces he has a back up unit.

Talk Zimbabwe.com quotes Monteiro as saying the police should use appropriate measures to contain cases of violence in order to maintain peace and security and that ‘the Angolan government will help Zimbabwe in this endeavour.’ The website says he also gave indications his government could deploy their best-trained police militia in Zimbabwe as early as this week to help contain growing unrest. ‘Angola will do everything in its power to help the Zimbabwean police force and will not allow Western imperialism to take over Zimbabwe,’ Monteiro said adding, ‘President Robert Mugabe and I have agreed on a law and order maintenance agreement that will see Angolan police helping with the situation in the country.’

Guess that says a bunch. But until someone or nature takes him out of the box along with many levels below him, Zim will continue to be a hole.

Thank you for posting that Lily.

Regarding Mbeki, is there anyone here who has an explanation for why he supports Mugabe?
Easy to say Mbeki is an idiot, and I know too little about him to have an opinion on that either way, but most people do have reasons for what they do.
Ill thought out, criminal, misguided or whatever, but in their own minds there is usually a reason.
Any insights here?

Smeagol, forgive me this my very first spelling correction in several years at JB. I suspect you do not at all mean the self-abasement of "Here! Here!", but the applause of "Hear! Hear!". I hope so. If I am wrong, and you are one of the guilty pinkoes, and happy with it, then my apologies.

Regarding Mbeki, is there anyone here who has an explanation for why he supports Mugabe?

Zimbabwe is a sovereign, independent State. This was recognised in the South African statement to the effect that this is a problem for the Zimbabwe people to resolve.

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,9294,2-7-12_2069294,00.html (http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,9294,2-7-12_2069294,00.html)

Mbeki has been watching Mad Bob's excesses in Zimbabwe and taking careful note of the lack of will to do anything about them.

Any doubt that SA will be next? The civil service, military and police have already been placed "on side" by weeding out those who are effective at their jobs but may not support the current regime, leaving a crime wave of massive proportions and a stagnating bureaucracy that is more interested in self enrichment and furthering the political agenda of the ruling party than in effectively running the country.

www.iafrica.com/news/sa/

Had an interesting conversation recently with an elderly black chap who gave me a lift in his car in Lusaka (in the former Northern Rhodesia). He wished for British rule again as he said back in those days at least they had decent law and order. The only problem, he said, was that the whites would treat the blacks like dogs. One still sees that attitude in the white community there. With a few exceptions, I don't think they are particulary nice people either.

Haven't been to Zimbabwe (the former Southern Rhodesia) in some time as I refuse to pay the extortionate visa fee which I am sure goes striaght into the wrong persons pocket. Zambia has the right idea, pay for accomodation and they will waive the fee. Great country, has problems of course like we all do, but lovely people and not yet discovered by the masses.

Smeagol, forgive me this my very first spelling correction in several years at JB. I suspect you do not at all mean the self-abasement of "Here! Here!", but the applause of "Hear! Hear!". I hope so. If I am wrong, and you are one of the guilty pinkoes, and happy with it, then my apologies.

Mr Davaar

Many thanks for the correction. I did, indeed, mean "Hear! Hear!". I blame a temporary disconnection between brain and fingers.

As for being a possible 'guilty pinko', perish the thought! Is it sufficient to say that after graduation in 1974 I emigrated to South Africa for an enjoyable few years. Left because I saw the writing on the wall (and someone offered me a better job!).

Northern Rhodesia, eh?
Not heard it called that in many years! Your elderly Gentleman was right about the law and order to a point. I remember the law being upheld in quite a positive way compared to the UK.
Was in the garden one day when a police landrover came thundering up, the police raced into the bush and pulled out two 'crims'.
Not only did the police beat them with large sticks, but all sorts of people appeared from nowhere to join in the beating. Turned out that these were two chaps who had tried to burgle our house the night before. I guess it was around 1am when I heard the front gate go 'clunk'. Looked out the window, and there was this guy, halfway over the gate. I ran into my mum's room and told her, she simply sighed and flicked two switches. One was a loud siren, the other massive security lights.
I could not sleep for the rest of the night, but heard, around 4.30 am, a crunch on the gravel of the front drive. It was one of them, I recognised his clothes. One of the same that were dragged from the bush later that day.
So, OK, it's not perfect, but I reckon there was far less crime than there is in the UK.

Forgot to mention, this was a small mining town in Zambia

The only problem, he said, was that the whites would treat the blacks like dogs. One still sees that attitude in the white community there. With a few exceptions, I don't think they are particulary nice people either.


Slimslag - Can you please give some examples of this attitude that you witnessed there? Also, how long have you ever spent there?

The Chibemba tribe are a very friendly tribe and so are all Zambians both black and white people together!:ok:

Techchick - Mapoleni, are you from Kitwe, Luanshya, Muf or Chingola? Now don't say Ndola! :ok:

Perhaps he was an exception, but a former neighbour went to live near Harare and spent many years there running a plantation.

He came back to the UK and lodged with me for a couple of years. During that time he received many letters, frequently addressed to 'Boss Man' imploring him to go back and saying how much they (the workers) missed him.

He eventually returned, just after Mugabe gained power, and died shortly afterwards.

Flame Lily,
I was in Chillilabombwe, but went to school, for a while, in Chingola. xx
What's wrong with Ndola? The airport there is better than Kitwe (South downs) As I recall, there was only one loo at Kitwe airport, and that
a) didn't work
b) Had no door
c) Faced the main road
AND there were potholes in the runway!
Forgot about this till now, something I posted in African Aviation about 50 years ago:

THE KITWE FLIGHT


The weather wasn't perfect, but the tower thought it right,
That we should make this journey(the beginning of our night)
The passage should take near an hour, by turbo jet, of course,
But ours was an old plane and the weather getting worse.


The take off wasn't too bad, a little bumpy, though,
And everything was going well for half an hour or so.
Then suddenly we hit the rain as if a solid wall
Our old machine it shuddered and we feared lest it should stall.


But the pilot used his skill and climbed a thousand feet
To try and get above the storm as each gripped fast his seat.
But still the gale was raging, too high for us to go
It reduced our speed to walking pace thus making progress slow.
Lightning lit the outside world, showing a terrible scene.


A tiny girl towards the back let out a tiny scream.
I cant say that I blamed her, it gave me quite a scare
To see the whirling torrent, I wondered how we'd fare.
For in those awful seconds, hell surely was displayed,


And I could see the hostess was more than just dismayed.
A description of the clouds outside I simply cannot tell,
Like giant augers, swiping, at our tiny shell.
A gloomy sight, with little light, mixed up a thousand greys,
A million streaming corridors, pointing a million different ways.


The clouds were not with silver lined, but with a darker hue,
Blacks and purples everywhere, but not a sign of blue.
The raindrops fired against the wings, we felt as in a cage,
They beat against the windows, too, in their stormy rage.


The plane dipped down into a dive and then rose up again
Thor tried his best to bring us down, but tried his best in vain.
For however old our vessel was, it flew on through the night
Down again and up once more, from right, to left, to right.


Then suddenly it was over, not a sign of it was here,
The very end of our ordeal, the end of all our fear.
The lights of Kitwe shone below, meaning minutes to the end.
Beleive me, I was quite afraid, on that I won't pretend.

Techchick

Wow, you were in the sticks!;) I spent a lot of time at Ndola airport and South Downs!:ok: I also remember many times flying with the intention of landing at South Downs before sunset, but having to fly on to Ndola because South Downs didn't have any landing lights!:ok: The people waiting on the ground at South Downs then watched the plane fly over and they then had to rush to drive the hour to Ndola to pick up said pax! Only in Africa, eh?:ok: My brother was recently at Ndola airport and he says not one thing has changed there! Still the same Anderson shelters, red polished floors and the bar in the Anderson shelter opposite the car park. The same red scales to weigh your luggage!:ok: Yeah, Ndola airport is very civilised compared to South Downs!:p

Sorry for threaddrift but it's all nearly Zimbabwean related....;)

Juud,

Unsurprisingly Mugabe is championed in much of Africa simply because he is a black African and as a result of his early days in the anti-colonialist struggle. In my mind, based on the history of colonialism, this is somewhat justified. What we like to call "white minority rule" is just another term for dictatorship and he actively fought against this. The white colonists had become essential for the Zim economy, but could rightly be seen by blacks as holding total power.

Also, Mugabe wasn't always the thug he is now. Unfortunately for as long as I can recall the guy has been a monster.

It is interesting to see posters here decry Chinese investment. It most certainly isn't colonialism and is no different from what Western countries did and continue to do in every other developing region. The issue with Chinese investment is the fact it is not policy based or requiring any kind of SAP...but again, US aid in Latin America is no different, nor European "aid" in the Middle East.

I get the impression this is either simply sour grapes that the Chinese are beating us at our own game or that the Chinese have finally provided a source of FDI that is actually less principled than our own - so we can now criticise.

Flame Lily,

I can hardly believe Ndola has not changed these thirty years since I was last there! Do you still walk to the aircraft and up the steps? Can you still get coca cola in glass bottles?

wow............

Luanshwa is one of the most beautiful places on Earth.

Some great evenings at the Ndola Yacht Club as well.:} ;)

Solid Rust - Not as pretty as Kitwe though!:p I've spent many days at Ndola Boating Club! Was never there when the Commodore rang the bell though!:p ;)

Ndola not as nice as Kitwe perhaps, but Luanshwa is a gem.
As mentioned earlier, Ndola airport buildings are still just about in the original state from WWII. Those old wood floors are great.:ok:
Used to get fillet steak for next to nothing as the local folks wouldn't buy it due to not being chewy enough. The butcher would always have piles of fillets waiting for buyers.
Also find the Northern Breweries product better than the govt run brewery Mosi. Had more than one bad experience with foreign bodies in the bottles of Mosi and learned very quickly to do the African Bar Salute and check for dead spiders, mice, cig butts and other stomach churners. Also found the quality varied and was told it was a result of foreign substances introduced as a result of *ahem* industrial action.:rolleyes: I'll stick to the Northern Breweries stuff like Rhino and such, thanks....:ok:

If Rusty Twotter had a good time ANYWHERE..........it means only one thing.
Theere was plenty of BEER

C ya in a couple months SRT

Bert, shame on you for implying that our friend Rusty would imbibe anything more than an obligatory sundowner! ;)

So... according to SRT, the Mbeki suppirts Uncle Bob because he wants to do the same in SA. And according to SunrayM, it is because Mugabe is black and used to be one of the good guys.
I believe you both, but it seems a bit thin as reasons go? Any more ideas/facts floating around?

Seeing as there's plenty old & current Africa hands here, what should be done about Mugabe?
And who should do it without incurring the wrath of the 'do not meddle in internal foreign/African politics' brigade?
The people of Zimbabwe themselves? (not easy with a maniacal ruthless killer as president)
The so-called developed world? (bullet to the head would surely raise all kinds of international hell, invasion to achieve regime-change not too popular at the moment either)
The African Union/whatever coalition of willing African states? (not the most action oriented organisations)

Who and how?

sorry to bring the convo back to Zambia, but does anyone recall Rodwins? And anyone recall dear old KK singing his fave song?

Wish I knew Mlle Juud...:(

No will to change things among African states and anyone else doing the job would not suit the PC brigade, while the people of Zim are like a battered wife, docile through fear and repeated abuse.

Judd,

You asked why Mbeki supports zim...........................

Spent my informative years in Zim.;) Very long story short............had some friends (uhmmm) in low/high places (depending on your point of view) :\ According to these sources Mbeki and Mandela were given assylum in Zim during apartheid. Became great buddies through the influence of copious amounts of alcohol and debauchery. The stories that could be told about that time.............................................get my drift. :} :} :}

Let's just hope that this chap's days are numbered. I feel for all those who have suffered at his hands. I mean it ain't just the white farmers, but all those who worked on the farms.
Independance is a wonderful thing, but is it always the best thing? When they closed the borders around, what, 1969? the choice of different foods plummeted.Ok, I know I'm banging on about Zambia, but it's a close neighbour! My mam went to the 'supermarket' to find that they had, wow, Kellogs cornflakes on special offer! when she got them home, they were crawling with weavils. she took them back and complained, to be told, "Madam, that is why they are special offer!"
All the flour also had to be carefully sieved to get rid of the weavils. I have no idea how the locals managed to get decent food for thier kids. We were lucky, our fathers were high up in the mining community, and we got 21 litres of fresh milk a week from the mine farm. We got cheap meat, our fathers would buy a whole butchered cow between them to freeze.
We had veggie gardens, such as they were, and would buy mealies, (corn on the cob) from local ladies. There was this chap who would arrive on his bike selling string beans, etc. We called him vroom vroom. because that's what he'd shout as he pedalled.
We were lucky, dunno the people who lived their entire lives there. It's been many years since I was there, but I remember my friends, Kuoko and Phoebe as though I saw them yesterday.

A cousin of mine served in the RAR throughout the war that eventually ousted Smith and saw Muzorewa and then Mugabe in. He then carried on in the army and was the first (only?) white officer to be decorated by Bob. After coming out of the army he found he'd fallen in love with the place, wanted to stay and settle down. He started an import/export agency, and found only too quickly that whites owning businesses was not to be the permitted order of the day. Life was made so difficult for him that, with a heavy heart, he left.

"found only too quickly that whites owning businesses was not to be the permitted order of the day. Life was made so difficult for him that"

Thats called clueless. When he was the only one of many he knew that were left, it should have turned on a light or raised a flag..

You can't help BUT fall in love with the place.

There's a saying that ' You can take the man out of the valley, but you can't take the valley out of the man'

Well, it's true, also, of Africa. I wasn't born there, but my baby sister was. How disappointed my younger brother and I were! it was 1967, I was 4, he was 3, and my mother had told us that we were having a Zambian baby. She was duly born, and ooohhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!! She was pink! We had wanted a proper Zambian with black fuzzy hair! We asked Mum if she could change her for a proper one, but Mum said no. (Quite glad now, really, she'll be 40 this year and have grown rather fond of her!)

Ok, so I'll get done for talking drivel again, but this is me, the real me!

Ok, so I'll get done for talking drivel again, but this is me, the real me!

Techchick, thats not drivel and it drives home the point that many from Zim or Zambia or wherever have. It was their home. That means everyone and had nothing to do with race.
I see folks here posting about many of the countries in Africa and are so very critical of colonialism, but it brought Africa out of the dark ages for a while. When I go back into Pemba for example and look at the buildings that are falling down or the former tree lined streets of Nairobi and compare it to now. It certainly aint whiteys fault for things going to sh1t.

What Mugape is doing is acceptable because he is black and his victims are black and white. If he were a white man doing this to blacks there would have been massive worldwide condemnation, remember Sowetto/Sharpville ?

Only South Africa can sort this out, turn off the electricity and fuel supplies unless he steps down and an acceptable replacement is installed. Mugape has billions of $$$ hidden away and can live comfortably in Malaysia/Cuba/Libya etc or even France which is quite happy to have ex dictators living there (good shopping for his wife too)

South Africa is only prolonging the agony for Zimbabwe and is paying a heavy price with all the illegal immigrants on it's soil by keeping him going.

One was in Rhodesia for the period of the transition. A beautiful country! Such a shame that things seem to have gone from bad to worse. During the transition I know that there was a period when there was a great deal of hope being expressed for the future of the country.

In a later life I did a fair amount of work for the UN. At the time there was a number of discussions/papers on the formation of a UN fire fighting force with the skills and training to intervene in cases of ‘failed nation states’. Lots of cries of ‘neocolonialism’ and little support from the permanent members soon put the kybosh on that.

If the World Community accepts that ‘Something should be done’ then it has to put together the force to implement it. One doubts if this will happen; too many vested interests. Frankly, leaving the issue in the hands of the OAU is unlikely to have any benefit on the population of Zim

CAA Dakota

VP-YNH was one of the Dakota's operated by CAA. After that it became Ian Smith's 'personal' aircraft. It was purchased from someone in Zimbabwe (I can't remember who) in late 1983/early 1984 by an air charter company in Zambia. It was then put on the Zambian register under the registration 9J-DAK. It was sold sometime in late 1985/early 1986 to a company (Sunbird Aviation I think) in Kenya.

When it was here, it flew a lot of charters for the Bank of Zambia, moving money around to the various provincial centres, and was also used to fly gold that was mined here down to Jo'burg for processing. It also did a number of flights moving Angolan refugees away from the border areas and flights on behalf of British Airways from Lusaka to Ndola and back again. On one of the flights, one of the cylinders in one of the engines disintegrated. Luckily this happened just as they were coming in to land at Ndola and when the aircraft slowed down, flames started coming out of the engine. The co-pilot had to run down the aisle, grab the fire extinguisher, jump out of the door and deal with the problem. After it was repaired and brought back to Lusaka, bees decided to inhabit the wings of the aircraft. They tried to smoke them out, but without success and even after flying to wherever the charter was and back again, the bees would still come crawling out drunkenly.

This particular aircraft was manufactured in 1944, and on the 50th anniversary of the DC3 in December 1985, the charter company got ZNBC out to film the aircraft and took the press up for a quick flight. As luck would have it, they couldn't get one engine started and when it did eventually catch, there was another streak of flames from the engine and all of it was captured on film and subsequently broadcast (I have the video if anyone wants a copy). The plane was eventually sold just before a Check 4 was needed. The Check 4 entailed removing the wings and replacing/rehabilitating the fuel tanks. One of the pilots who flew it in Zambia had over 20,000 hours of flying time on DC3's, having flown them in Biafra and various other places as well.

Contributed by H Chalcraft (12 July 2001)

An interesting snippet on BBC Radio 4 Today programme this morning, I was only half listening so not sure who said it, sorry: "The Zim police appear to be distancing themselves from Mugabe". Maybe explains why he has had to borrow 3,000 riot police from Angola?

The Times: Angola sends ‘Ninja’ paramilitaries to bolster Mugabe’s security forces

About 2,500 Angolan paramilitary police, feared in their own country for their brutality, are to be deployed in Zimbabwe, raising concerns of an escalation in violence against those opposed to President Mugabe. Kembo Mohadi, Zimbabwe’s Home Affairs Minister, confirmed their imminent arrival, with 1,000 Angolans expected on April 1 and the rest in batches of 500. Angola is regarded as the most powerful military nation in Africa, after South Africa.

The deployment comes amid reports of concern in President Mugabe’s Government over the capability of the country’s own police force to suppress outbreaks of unrest, which are mostly in Harare’s volatile townships. The townships have been under curfew for about three weeks; one man has been shot dead and hundreds of civilians injured. Morgan Tsvangirai, the leader of the opposition Movement for Democratic Change, and about 30 opposition activists are still recovering from beatings they received when police suppressed an attempted rally on March 11.

Mr Mohadi said that he had signed an agreement for the deployment of the Angolan paramilitaries with General Roberto Monteiro, the Interior Minister of Angola, last week. “We signed a memorandum of cooperation last Thursday and it is meant to ensure public order and security for both our peoples and the whole southern African region,” he said. The police would be on “an exchange programme”, he claimed. “We have done that in the past, and it is not something new.”

Police sources who asked not to be named said previous training exchange programmes with southern African countries had involved only small numbers of officers at a time. “This is the first time that there has been such a large group,” said one. “Our capacity for training is badly run down, and we could never deal with so many. I doubt if any of them speak English. They can only be here for riot control and to back up our own riot police.”

Dubbed “Ninjas” for their all-black uniform of combat trousers and tunics, boots and balaclavas, the paramilitaries form part of the presidential guard of Jose Eduardo dos Santos, who has been in power since 1979. They patrol in pickup trucks, with mounted heavy machine-guns, and are notorious for their violence. “Angolans are terrified of them,” an Angolan resident said.....

what should be done about Mugabe?
And who should do it without incurring the wrath of the 'do not meddle in internal foreign/African politics' brigade?
The so-called developed world? (bullet to the head would surely raise all kinds of international hell, invasion to achieve regime-change not too popular at the moment either)
The African Union/whatever coalition of willing African states? (not the most action oriented organisations)

Who and how?

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,9294,2-7-12_2087966,00.html (http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,9294,2-7-12_2087966,00.html)

Solid Rust Twotter - You are absolutely right about Luanshya. It has always been known as the prettiest town on the Copperbelt. I hark from Ndola and Kitwe hence the bias!:ok:

My guess is that Mad Bob Mugabe will first be conferred an honorary doctorate in Economics or Social Studies by the Australian National University. They are - and that is no joke - planning to give Singapore dictator Lee Kuan Yew an honorary Doctorate in Laws next week!

http://canberra.yourguide.com.au/detail.asp?story_id=568284&class=News&subclass=General&category=General

Hard to believe how academic minds can be totally devoid of common sense.:ugh::ugh::ugh:

"Hard to believe how academic minds can be totally devoid of common sense."

I guess that means you have not heard of the University of California at Berkeley

Flame Lily, the article you point to succintly explains yet again what is wrong with Mbeki. It does not, as far as I can see, answer my question as quoted by you. :confused:

I don't expect anybody here to come with the definitive solution.
Am just very interested to know what you Africa-hands think might be the way to go.

Nothing has really changed, just Mugabe got even older..... Mugabe, Mbeki and Mandela's Shadow (http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Mugabe,+Mbeki,+and+Mandela's+Shadow-a072345249)

Juud - Here's another link.

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20070324112055286C424477

Juud - Maybe you should ask that question to all those politicians who were involved in the Lancaster House talks?

I think you will find that ANY of the Black African Leaders got into power on the premise that Whitey and Colonialism was ruining Africa. Once in Power they wrote the book on theft and abuse, exceeding what was anyones wildest dreams. AND they have driven their own people back in time.
Those that are smart enough, have money stored with Whitey and when the brown stuff hits the blades, they all want to live in their Villas surrounded by Whitey, in some far away country......Go Figure.

I happen to think that Robbery Gabriel Mugabe can really only be removed by his own people (when they finally get pushed beyond breaking point, when death becomes almost a better option than the life of suffering they have now). Then massing a huge crowd (I mean 100,000 plus), marching down Samora Machel Avenue to Milton Buildings, taking down the barricades and any unfortunate "brave" policemen along the route, taking his excellency out of his chair, taking his by now almost lifeless carcass to Cecil Square where he will be strung up from one of the mature shade trees with a heavy rope.

:bored:

"Then massing a huge crowd (I mean 100,000 plus"

I think even a crowd that size Toi Toiing down the street will beat feet out of town when the Bullets start whizzing.. And guess who has all the Bullet Launchers.

Hey, B Sousa (is Sousa of Portuguese origins? My Portuguese friends in Africa killed me with kindness and warm hospitality - hard workers too - I remember this Portuguese Mamma singing and dancing at a braai with her doll on this stick) - Don't forget old Kenneth Kaunda (aka KK aka Kapenta Kid) has his chalet next door to Jackie Stewart (ex F1 racing driver) in Switzerland.;) :p

Pity there's no oil fields....

What about all the deposits of chromite and other platinum-group ores, eh? Can't sustain a decent steel industry anywhere without those!

Of course, only the old ComBloc ever seemed to have thought of that.

This is the latest news from Zimbabwe from a resident there:



Economic Collapse

Today the Rand went over 3 000 to 1, the US dollar went to over 30 000 to 1 and the price of beer, bread and fuel doubled. I raised our salaries by 50 per cent two weeks ago and I am going to have to find another 100 per cent next week. People cannot afford even the basics, money has no value and everybody is talking about prices and the specter of economic collapse.

The government simply does not know what to do next - a 400 per cent salary increment to teachers is now virtually wiped out just weeks later. They have imposed price controls only to find that market prices have soared to, in some cases, 5 times the so-called controlled price (bread is now about Z$4000 a loaf - the controlled price is Z$825) even though the latter was fixed just two months ago. When the State tries to enforce prices on traders, the product just disappears overnight. I have not seen a bottle of vegetable oil in 4 months. The only product that is occasionally available is imported from South Africa.

State institutions are not able to move with the kind of speed that is
needed to survive in this situation. All of them are reeling under the
strain - foreign exchange is unobtainable except on the parallel market and there the prices rise daily. They cannot generate enough local currency to pay for the currency they need - and it has to be in cash. Maximum withdrawals from the banks are Z$1 million - that is not enough to fill your tank at Z$17 000 or Z$18 000 a litre.

The total collapse of these institutions is now almost inevitable - they
simply cannot pay their bills and cannot buy the essentials they need to
operate. People must be close to saying that it is simply not worth their
while going to work.

I run a retail operation and have watched my sales rise from about plus 1000 per cent up at the start of last year to 4 800 per cent this month. That just about tracks the sort of inflation that ordinary people now face in their daily lives. In this situation we must remember that this affects
everybody. Pretty soon we are going to face complete stock outs of
essentials and only those who have foreign exchange will be able to get
them. The quality and delivery of all services is about to crash.

The question is what are the political implications? This coming week the
future of Zimbabwe will be decided. The Zanu PF Central Committee meets to decide whether to accept that Mr. Mugabe is to be the sole candidate for Zanu PF in the March 2008 elections. There can be only one outcome of that meeting - they will politely decline his offer to stand, tell him he has been a great and heroic leader, but it is time to "ende Kumusha" (go to your traditional home). Then they will agree to select and appoint a candidate at the December 2007 Zanu PF annual conference. That will then mark the end of a remarkable political career.

The SADC will hold a key meeting of its own in Tanzania and at that meeting they will decide what to "do" about Zimbabwe. They will review the situation and consider the different options and then come down on the side of change. They will agree that this situation simply cannot be allowed to continue to slide in this fashion, that the collapse in Zimbabwe is a real threat to regional stability and progress and they will demand progress on a negotiated agreement on how to restore legitimate government in Harare and halt and reverse the decline in our fortunes.

Somewhere else in the world, the new task force on Zimbabwe will be convened and at that meeting the international community will decide what solution to back and what minimum criteria will have to be satisfied to get their acquiescence to any agreed resolution of the crisis. They will examine a possible timetable and set out what kind of resources they might make available to the process on a collective basis.

For most the end of Mugabe's career as President will be the signal event in these times. What people may not appreciate fully, are the direct
consequences of his political demise. From the 1st of April he will be
yesterdays man - he might still live in that fancy Chinese monster he calls
home, he might still ride around in a long cavalcade with outriders and may
still be guarded by stony faced guards with fixed bayonets. But it will be
an empty shell that we see and hear. His power will wash away from him like the receding tide.

His loyalists and all those who have slavishly followed his every dictate
will suddenly realize that on April the 1st 2008, they will be stripped of
power and privilege. That new powerbrokers will run the show and they will have to decide what to do. Those who have broken the law and stolen things that did not belong to them will also be thrown back onto their haunches and forced to think about their future. Many will flee; others will try to make new alliances.

The people who control the investment levers are already putting out
feelers - asking to what degree are local stocks under priced, what price
assets, can we buy farm title deeds? They are talking to people who want to go and making plans to come in their place. They are considering future
investment possibilities in those sectors that will recover fast (tourism
and mining) and in those areas where assets can be had for 5 per cent or
less of their real value. I spoke to a London based group last week that
have in fact done just that for about that price for assets in the mining
sector.

The international community will breath a huge sigh of relief and plan to
put some resources on the table and to try and help get things under
control. They will focus on stabilizing inflation, getting essentials into
free supply and the rehabilitation of our medical and education systems.
They will begin to assess priorities for 2008. They will move to help us
hold free and fair elections in March next year as these will be both the
mechanism for transition and the door to recognition and recovery.

What must we do under these circumstances? We must prepare for these changes and hold things together for a bit longer. We are a community renowned for our ability to "make a plan" and that is just what we are going to have to do. We are going to have to help people get through this inflation storm, help each other to keep our firms in business and our local authorities in a position to deliver essential services. We will need to prepare to vote for the candidate of our choice next year and ensure that they too "have a plan".

Eddie Cross
Bulawayo, 23rd March 2007

Well Eddie, I admire your optimisim. I hope you're right.

Sir Humphrey must be turning in his grave... :sad:

I see that there are already rumblings going on......I wonder who will make the first move..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6490805.stm

:hmm:

The question is, does Mugabe still control the army? If he does, not much else matters.

Good point, con-pilot.:uhoh:

"My Portuguese friends in Africa "

OK, From Portugal in Africa or from Africa in Africa?? There is a difference.

B Sousa - From Africa in Africa, of course!:ok:

8bn Euro food aid destined for Zim from the EU. Hope the opposition supporters see some of it and Bob doesn't use it as a weapon as he has in the past.

The grapevine also mentioned something about two opposition colleagues of Tsvangirai being shot dead by Bob's goons around the time Morgan was beaten up.

All completely democratic and above board, of course...:hmm: :rolleyes:







Edited for mong spellung...

News24 article says a new Army reserve is being established in Zim... membership comprised of none other than the war vets & the green bombers. If so, this will no doubt come back to haunt him, last sting of the dying wasp?

"News24 article says a new Army reserve is being established in Zim... membership comprised of none other than the war vets & the green bombers."
He can do that all day long and they still are no threat to anyone except the now disarmed populace. Those who stay, had better learn to like it.
If the U.S. and other powers in the world were who we are depicted to be, a good squad of pissed off Marines could kick his butt and topple the place in twenty four hours.
Problem then would be the world would expect us to feed and cloth everyone. Expense outweighs the problem.

Yes, it seems to have become traditional to undertake reconstruction of any country that has been 'destroyed' by invading forces, so no doubt the US would be 'obligated' to sort-out the chaos that is already and that which would occur after any 'coup'.

"a good squad of pissed off Marines could kick his butt and topple the place in twenty four hours. Problem then would be the world would expect us to feed and cloth everyone. Expense outweighs the problem."

Well Bert if you wade in uninvited & unapproved (so to speak) its reasonable to expect that you clean up the mess you've made before you leave.

"Expense outweighs the problem" Would this be a "lesson learned" by any chance?

Hope springs eternal... :E

""Expense outweighs the problem" Would this be a "lesson learned" by any chance? "

Actually it is a lesson, we just have not learned anything yet.

Honest and Witty!:ok:

Why don't we just get that good old egg Margaret Beckett to have a word in Uncle Robert's shell like. That ought to finish him off, I mean look at Himenyjimenybad in Tehran, he's just beside himself with worry!:rolleyes:

Robert Gabriel Mugabe is the problem, and Mugabe's people who voted him in is the best alternative in removing him.:hmm:

Shall we blame the British? (Whatever the Brits did and did not do in Rhodesia, they most certainly did not cause the grim state of affairs in Zimbo:hmm:).:p

Breaking news in SA.

Tsvangirai's disappeared. Arrested by Zim police along with other activists but they deny any knowledge of his arrest or whereabouts.

Solid Rust Twotter - Yep, Morgan and 20 others arrested again ahead of Mugabe's planned trip to the conference in Tanzania.

The summit of 14 countries held in Tanzania has called on Western Governments to lift sanctions against Zimbabwe and has expressed their solidarity with the Government of Mugabe. They have also called on Britain to fulfill its obligation to fund the land reforms policy in Zimbabwe. They have also requested the SA President to mediate in the crisis. This does not surprise me. The Mugabe Government has convinced its neighbours that the West is supporting and funding the opposition parties and that the issue of land reparation is one that affects all Africans and has a historical perspective to it (ie. allegation being that land was usurped by Colonials). Somehow the summit has strenghtened Mugabe's grip! Hmm!

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1259056,00.html

Mbeki pulls an Oprah. I feel your pain, Bubba!

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_2093514,00.html

Eish!:hmm:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/helpless-as-a-dictator-lays-waste/2007/04/04/1175366324501.html?page=2
He grew up at a time when the one-time militant Marxist Mugabe was being feted by the West, loaded up with honorary degrees from international universities, and called a good friend by the then Australian prime minister Malcolm Fraser, who helped propel him to power, but is now uncharacteristically quiet on the subject. Meanwhile, back in reality, Mugabe's North Korean-trained soldiers were murdering as many as 25,000 people in the southern province of Matabeleland in 1984 and 1985.


Mugabe "is a disaster, his country is just a total heap of misery", the Prime Minister, John Howard, said on radio last month. "It's time that the neighbouring African countries, particularly South Africa, exerted political pressure on Mugabe to go.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amazing the difference a bit of time makes.

I don't know if this is the end or not, but eventually the sand will run out in an eggtimer somewhere and the very thin chap will turn up with his scythe.

Mad Bob looks spritely in public, but he certainly isn't getting any younger.

Hourglass??? That's a very outdated image, Blacksheep - he has been digitised and now uses a watch that automatically co-ordinates itself by satellite. He even downloads the list of people to be topped next by WiFi hotspot on his laptop... :eek: :}

Here's a financial solution:

Pull a couple of million quid from a UK bank, factor in inflation since 1923, add a bit of interest and.... Let's see.... Not sure if giving that money back would give the UK proper legal standing to resume colonial rule now that responsible self-government's been by the wayside for some time, BUT....

It may actually be enough to sustain Comrade Bob in the lifestyle to which he's accustomed himself for the rest of his natural life.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6529887.stm
A Zimbabwean cameraman abducted from his home in the capital, Harare, last week has been murdered.
Edward Chikomba's badly beaten body was found at the weekend in bushes next to a road some 50km west of Harare.
Correspondents say the reason for his killing is not yet clear, but there are concerns it is linked to the smuggling of news footage out of Zimbabwe.

the reason for his killing is not yet clear

Yea, right....

"Since 1885, the University of Massachusetts has awarded nearly 2,000 honorary degrees to world leaders, renowned scholars and writers.

Now for the first time, the university is considering taking one back - from Robert Mugabe, president of Zimbabwe. (http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/04/05/america/NA-GEN-US-Mugabe-Degree.php)

When Mugabe received an honorary doctorate of law from the UMass-Amherst campus in 1986, he was hailed as a humane revolutionary who ended an oppressive white rule to establish an independent Zimbabwe in 1979. But in the two decades since, Mugabe has been condemned for attacks on dissidents and accused of running a corrupt government that has ruined the economy."

It's taken them just 21 years to work out that he is not of the calibre they first thought... and so, in the midst of all the other criticism that he is taking, he may suffer the indignity of being stripped of the honour.

Like he cares...

"Mugabe's actions during the past decade show he's fallen from being a good citizen of the world," said Shauna Murray, a UMass graduate student who helped circulate a petition last month on the Boston campus urging the administration to rescind the degree. "He has a track record of suppressing basic human rights like free speech and the right to protest, and that doesn't represent what students here stand for."

Mugabe has said in the past that he has a degree in violence and has no need for further honours - not that anyone is contemplating giving him any more any time soon. But it's not the stripping of honours that he needs - it's the stripping of his powers as one of the most radically tyrannical leaders in recent history that is really required...:hmm:


http://bp1.blogger.com/_283QbiRqg4k/RhTOcWLalDI/AAAAAAAAAW0/feaHrfxOSJ4/s400/helis.jpg


Army helicopters gunships on Wednesday patrolled the skies and armed police roamed the streets in Harare's impoverished suburbs in a triumphant show of force by security forces after stifling a two-day strike called by labour unions on Tuesday. (http://www.zimonline.co.za/Article.aspx?ArticleId=1178)

:hmm: Eish!

Mbeki continues to tiptoe around Mugabe offering covert support, while the silence is deafening from those who propelled him to power with their strident cries of justice and liberty on the streets of the world's capitols.

R4 Talking Politics today had quite a long session discussing the problems in Zim.

It was stated at one point that a lot of financial institutions are supporting Mugabe, including one well-known UK bank.

I would like to know which bank that is.

I would like to know which bank that is.

I think it is Barclays.:hmm:

Thanks for that, FLF.

Unfortunately, as I'm not with them I can't take my overdraft elsewhere.

I might be wrong, Frostbite, but I am sure someone will correct me if I am.:ok:

This should please everyone.

MUGABE IS IN MALAYSIA WATCHING F1

http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/070407111940.shtml (http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/070407111940.shtml)

The supposed neutrality of F1's governing body might be about to return to the spotlight once again.

Last year, the FIA expressed anger after Turkish officials turned the podium ceremony into a widely-reported political saga.

But, according to rumours at Sepang on Saturday, arguably even more controversy could be stirred by the apparent visit to the circuit by Zimbabwe's highly criticised President Robert Mugabe.

The Daily Telegraph said the dictator decided to take a holiday even though millions of Zimbabweans face starvation and inflation rose to 1700 per cent.

Source GMM
CAPSIS International

:bored:

"British mercenary Simon Mann, a close friend of Margaret Thatcher’s son Sir Mark, is close to death in a hell-hole prison after being tortured by the henchmen of dictator Robert Mugabe (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/3867).

Mann, a former Old Etonian and SAS officer, was last week revealed to be suffering multiple organ failure in his cell in the Zimbabwe capital, Harare.

He is also said to be going blind, and has a life-threatening intestinal condition caused by poor diet.

Last night Amnesty International said it was monitoring Mann’s condition and attempting to obtain further information.

Mann has admitted being involved in the arms trade in Africa, but always denied his alleged part in the foiled coup.

He has maintained that weapons found in his possession at Harare airport in 2004 were destined for a private company guarding diamond mines in the Democratic Republic of Congo. The mercenary has also maintained that any confession he made was beaten out of him."

"As a British citizen, is he not entitled to some representation from diplomats to argue his case for at least more humane treatment - his chances of survival are slim unless the Zimbabwe government allow him free access to not only medical help, but legal representation. Mugabe will hold this man for as long as it takes, knowing that his continued imprisonment irks the British government and that, to Mugabe, is just what he wants and enjoys.":hmm:

I thought the EU had travel restrictions in place for Mugabe? If Turkey want to join the club, surely they should abide by its rules? F1 gained exemption from tobacco advertising rules by the simple expedient of Bernie Ecclestone giving Tony Blair lots of money - if he is going to let Mugabe hijack "his" sport, perhaps he should be brought back into line by the threat of the advertising exemption being withdrawn?

Or you could just nick him and whisk him off to The Hague a la Pinochet.

http://www.southgatearc.org/news/april2007/iran_zimbabwe_radio.htm


Iran is partly funding new Zimbabwe radio station

If you wondered how Zimbabwe, whose economy is in a desperate state, can afford to set up a new international radio station, the answer is simple - it can’t. But President Robert Mugabe has found a donor who can - Iran.

I came across this essay and found it thought-provoking, about the early history of independent Zimbabwe, and the American and British roles in the bringing of Mugabe to power over Ian Smith, and later Muzorewa.

I'd like to know the opinions of those with some knowledge of those times. If this is not a rightist, revisionist hack job, I think there are some important lessons for today, and some atonement due Zimbabweans from us.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/013/746zsgtg.asp

That's about right. Didn't mention troops of the RLI and RAR standing there disarmed and helpless while Mugabe's thugs (who had only handed in a few broken weapons) ran amok among the civilian population under the noses of the British.

Zim currency crashes

June 21 2007 at 07:41PM


By Angus Shaw

Harare - The value of the Zimbabwean dollar suffered its worst crash in memory, dealers said on Thursday, sparking a run for dollars and forcing stores to close early to put new prices on what little they could afford to stock.

Black market exchange rates - fuelled by the central bank buying at the illegal rates to pay the mounting debts of crumbling state fuel and power utilities - rose to upward of 300 000 Zimbabwe dollars to one US dollar in large offshore deals, said one trader.

The official exchange rate is 15 000-1.

'The price movements in the past week are nothing short of total madness'

"It's gone crazy," said the trader, who spoke on condition of anonymity because his dealings are illegal. "People are holding out for the highest bidder and mentioning as much as 400 000-1 which could be tomorrow's price. It's changing by the hour."

The going rate doubled since Monday, he said.

In local deals, the US currency fetched at least 140 000-1 in cash and around 200 000-1 in electronic bank transfers. Shortages of Zimbabwe bank notes created the premium on bank transfers, said the illegal dealer.

Zimbabwe has the world's highest rate of inflation, estimated officially at around 4 500 percent but calculated by independent finance houses at closer to 9 000 percent.

A hardware store in northern Harare closed its doors Monday through Tuesday to re-price all its goods. Supermarkets and other shops are planning to shorten opening hours to make price changes, enabling them to buy replacement stock at higher prices.

A journalist for Zimbabwe's official Herald newspaper reported that she had returned home from a week in South Africa to discover that during her absence the price of beef had increased 2,5 times, a bottle of cooking oil had doubled and bus fares had gone up between three and fivefold.

"The price movements in the past week are nothing short of total madness," wrote Victoria Ruzvidzo in Thursday's edition of the newspaper, a government mouthpiece.

Store managers say the range of goods on sale has diminished drastically - imported products are expensive and local factories are too crippled by inflation to produce goods. Meanwhile, the few workers who can afford the fuel to get to work are demanding higher wages.

"If it goes on like this, we'll have nothing to sell, we'll have no staff and we'll have to close down completely," said one store manager who asked not to be identified out of fear of being targeted for being "a prophet of doom" by often-violent ruling party militants.

The illegal black market money dealer said talks held in South Africa this week between the Zimbabwe government and the country's political opposition also led to business uncertainty.

The official media on Thursday accused the opposition Movement for Democratic Change of negotiating "in bad faith" to end the nation's political deadlock.

The Herald quoted government sources saying current visits to Europe by opposition leaders Morgan Tsvangirai and Arthur Mutambara were meant to scuttle the regional initiative led by South African President to bring the two sides to the table.

It described the opposition leaders' trip to meet with European leaders and canvass for support from incoming British Prime Minister Gordon Brown as "provocative."

President Robert Mugabe has repeatedly accused Britain and the United States of backing a campaign by his opponents to oust him with funding and expertise.

South African President Thabo Mbeki was to report to an African Union summit the end of next week on the state of the negotiations, his Deputy Foreign Minister Aziz Pahad said on Thursday.

Zimbabwe's official media also alleged on Thursday it received "a secret document" on a plot by Western countries to undermine the economy masterminded by Zimbabweans and foreigners known as the Fishmongers Group.

Western economic measures including a freeze on balance of payments loans and curbs on investment and aid.

Once longtime ruler Mugabe left office, Western countries planned to step in with a $3-billion (about R21-billion) rescue package to rebuild the nation, the state daily Chronicle reported in the second city of Bulawayo.

Western officials have confirmed the existence of budget proposals for food support, public services reform and the rebuilding of agriculture and general infrastructure over five years in a new political landscape led by reformist Zimbabwean politicians.

But according to the fiercely pro-Mugabe official media, the so-called Fishmongers Group was "working overtime to destroy the economy, mutilate the Zimbabwe dollar, foment civil unrest and then dangle a rescue package to win the support of gullible politicians." - Sapa-AP

It's not getting any better...:(

From todays Guardian:-

"Zimbabwe's inflation will rocket to 1.5m% before the end of the year, the US ambassador to Harare predicted yesterday, forecasting massive disruption and instability that will drive President Robert Mugabe from office.In a telephone interview with the Guardian, Christopher Dell said prices were going up twice a day, sapping popular confidence in a government which is now "committing regime change on itself".
"I believe inflation will hit 1.5m% by the end of 2007, if not before," Mr Dell said. "I know that sounds stratospheric but, looking at the way things are going, I believe it is a modest forecast."

One assumes the US ambassador would be a reasonable observer. The article mentions other symptoms, such the exchange rate ("The black market rate for the Zimbabwean dollar has slumped, from Z$160,000 to the pound last week to more than Z$400,000. It collapsed further yesterday, tumbling to more than Z$300,000 to the dollar. The official rate is fixed at just Z$250"), the fact that the current withdrawal limit from the bank of Z$1,000,000 per day wasn't enough to buy a weeks groceries and that at the golf course the players were paying for drinks before playing because the price would have gone up by the time they had finished the round.

Remind me, how do you "reboot" a "crashed" country? It won't work if the "virus" is still in the system, will it..?

Independent: Zimbabwe general linked to coup 'murdered' (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/africa/article2717292.ece)
By Daniel Howden
28 June 2007

One of Zimbabwe's top soldiers has been murdered after being linked to an alleged coup plot, according to senior military sources. Brig-Gen Ambrose Paul Gunda was buried yesterday a week after reports of a plot to topple President Robert Mugabe caused fevered speculation in the capital, Harare.

Official reports say the brigadier, a former head of the presidential guard, was killed last Thursday after the car he was driving collided with a goods train outside Harare. However, military sources speaking on condition of anonymity, claim he had been killed earlier by Mr Mugabe's own agents, and his body was then placed in a car on the train track to make it appear an accident. Brig-Gen Gunda had been under house arrest prior to the killing and no post-mortem examination was conducted on the body, said one of his junior officers who has been in hiding since the killing. Despite the alleged murder, Brig-Gen Gunda was buried at Harare's Heroes' Cemetery yesterday. A number of people who have died in suspicious circumstances after falling foul of the Mugabe regime have been given hero's burials at the site.

Last Friday, a judge in Harare ordered a bail hearing for five suspects in an alleged coup to be held behind closed doors. Brig-Gen Gunda was not among the suspects. The five men were not named and the presiding judge said the secrecy was necessary in order "to protect certain names which have been mentioned in the case".

Initial reports that one of the most senior members of the ruling Zanu PF party, the former general Solomon Mujuru, had been placed under house arrest, sparked rumours of the coup earlier this month. That was followed by a number of arrests including one former army officer and a reported link to another senior Zanu leader, Emmerson Mnangagwa.

Both Mr Mnangagwa and Mr Mujuru have significant support in the ruling party and have been talked about as possible successors to the 83-year-old Mr Mugabe............

For any of you who live outside of Africa.

Robert Mugabe is a dictator who has suppressed the rights of the free and fair electorate in Zimbabwe to maintain his own position as one of the wealthiest men in the world, while looking and acting like Adolph Hitler.

He lives in the highest of standards while his people starve.

Please bring a call to such orgainsations as the WFP (World Food Programme) to stop supporting Mugabe's government by stopping all food and medical aid to Zimbabwe.

Stop all aid until the dictator is imprisoned, and then bring relief to his people.

It is the right thing to do.

PS: If anyone feels bad about halting aid right now, know that it is only being withheld for the benefit of the ruling party and not the people of the country. Take that in truth. The long term solution is what is most important.

The phrase that comes to mind in this truly sorry situation is : "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." For I sometimes find myself wondering if there is one - just one - person who was among the many thousands in the West who after UDI demonstrated so passionately against that *unspeakable tyrant* Ian Smith who today asks him/herself if maybe he or she might have got it just a little bit wrong and if, politically incorrect as it may be to say so, so many of the people of Zimbabwe might have been better off (or even still alive!!!) today under the admittedly imperfect Smith minority government.

The one person I'd really like to see interviewed in depth in a 'Hard Talk' environment on this topic is the Rt Hon Malcolm Fraser, the ex-Prime Minister of Australia, who played a leading role in Mugabe's rise to power.

I'd like to know the opinions of those with some knowledge of those times. If this is not a rightist, revisionist hack job, I think there are some important lessons for today, and some atonement due Zimbabweans from us.

Benthere this is about as accurate picture of what happened as is possible.
Why is it that reality is so often covered up by the left and couched in such terms to the extreme detriment of millions...particularly in Africa?:ugh:

The UN/leftwing anti colonial political pressure of the 60s and 70s was an unmittigated disaster...I have lived in two such countries and have first hand experience...the results are a disgrace that was predicted by many residents both black and white.:mad:

And now the UN has voted Zimbabwe into the chair of the Commision for Sustainable Development...surely the ultimate piss take from what is supposed to be the premier world organisation:ugh:

Frostbite
Barclays probably would not miss your overdraft, however I assume you also do not fly with British Airways, after all they operate Three direct flights to Harare every week with a Boeing 777.

But on a lighter note, were you aware that Zimbabwe has the worlds second highest reserves of Platinum after South Africa?

Next time you fill up with "unleaded" consider where the catalytic converter sources its core element!

Economics does not go hand in hand with political persuasion, the UK and USA may spout forth on Mugabe but France, Germany, Switzerland and Belgium are doing very nicely thank you.

Throughout the years of apartheid in South Africa, Europes major carriers Lufthansa, SABENA, Swissair and BOAC/BA never terminated their services to Jo'burg.

Makes you think.

Zimbabwe’s top cleric urges Britain to invade (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article2010591.ece)

ZIMBABWE’S leading cleric has called on Britain to invade the country and topple President Robert Mugabe. Pius Ncube, the Archbishop of Bulawayo, warned that millions were facing death from famine, unable to survive amid inflation believed to have soared to 15,000%.

Mugabe, 83, had proved intransigent despite the “massive risk to life”, said Ncube, the head of Zimbabwe’s 1m Catholics. “I think it is justified for Britain to raid Zimbabwe and remove Mugabe,” he said. “We should do it ourselves but there’s too much fear. I’m ready to lead the people, guns blazing, but the people are not ready.”

Some parts of Zimbabwe have seen 95% of crops fail, leaving families with only two or three weeks’ food supply to last a year. Prices in the shops are more than doubling every week and Christopher Dell, the American ambassador, predicts that by the end of the year inflation could hit 1.5m%.

Ncube said that far from helping those struggling on less than £1 a week, Mugabe had just spent £1m on surveillance equipment to monitor phone calls and e-mails. “How can you expect people to rise up when even our church services are attended by state intelligence people?

“People in our mission hospitals are dying of malnutrition. We had the best education in Africa and now our schools are closing. Most people are earning less than their bus fares. There’s no water or power. Is the world just going to let everything collapse in on us?”........

Yes they will let everything collapse on you, it is a bigger crime to be "Racist' then it is to right a festering wrong led by blacks.

were you aware that Zimbabwe has the worlds second highest reserves of Platinum after South Africa
...I think you will find that China now has the world's second highest reserves of platinum - Zimbabwe are just the caretakers...:hmm:

touché :ok:

Eh...........?:confused:


Zimbabwe 'peaceful and secure'

18/08/2007 14:27 - (SA)

Johannesburg - A Zimbabwe government official has scoffed at reports that Britain is looking at contingency measures for the possible evacuation of up to 22 000 of its citizens from the crisis-wracked country, saying Harare would assist them to leave, official reports said on Saturday.

Deputy Information Minister Bright Matonga was responding to reports in the British press earlier in the week that said Whitehall was concerned over deteriorating conditions in Zimbabwe and had ordered the Ministry of Defence to look at what logistical support it could provide in the event of a total meltdown.

The report, quoting unnamed ministry sources, said military evacuation of British citizens would only be used as a last resort.

Matonga, who has lived in Britain and has a British wife, told the official Herald newspaper: "If, in our wildest dreams, such a wish from the British government occurs, why would they dare to send their evacuation team to Zimbabwe? We can assist them to leave."

"This is not going to happen. It's only a dream. Zimbabwe is peaceful and secure, and millions of Britons are dying to come and stay in our country," Matonga said.

Zim students deported

Conditions in Zimbabwe are deteriorating, with chronic shortages of food, fuel, power and water.

Political tensions are on the rise ahead of parliamentary and presidential elections early in 2008, in which President Robert Mugabe is expected to seek another term in office.

Matonga also hit out at a decision by the Australian authorities to deport eight students who have been linked to families from Zimbabwe's ruling elite.

"We are not surprised by this move by Australia, a country born of descendants of British rapists and paedophiles that were deported from Britain," he said.

The official said the expelled students would be able to enroll at universities in other countries such as Malaysia, which Harare deems friendly.

Something on the news today about a meeting of African heads of state giving Mugabe their backing.

Are they all in his pocket?

Circling the drain...:(

Mugabe gets hero's welcome

16/08/2007 16:30 - (SA)

Lusaka - Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe on Thursday got a hero's welcome as the Southern African Development Community (SADC) summit began in Zambia and was set to be dominated by international concerns over his country's meltdown.

The embattled octogenarian received a thunderous applause as he walked into the summit - in stark contrast to polite claps reserved for other heads of state.

In his welcome address, the summit host, Zambian President Levy Mwanawasa, told delegates to be "mindful" of the difficulties Zimbabweans faced.

The incoming SADC chairperson, who had previously likened Zimbabwe to a "sinking Titanic" also urged Zimbabweans "to retain unity and safeguard your hard-won independence".

"My advice to my brothers and sisters in Zimbabwe is: Maintain peace and stability at all costs.

'Operating under sanctions'

"In the meantime, SADC is there for you. This organisation is always ready to assist where it can to resolve the problems affecting member countries."

The 14-member regional bloc is under renewed pressure to seek a resolution to Zimbabwe woes, characterised by an inflation rate exceeding 5 000%, four in every five people jobless and 80% living under the poverty line.

Mugabe blames the current crises on drought and targeted sanctions imposed by the European Union against the ruling elite after the 2002 presidential election, which the opposition and western observers say were rigged.

But critics say Zimbabwe's problems started with controversial land reforms in which the government seized at least 4 000 farms from white commercial farmers for re-allocation to landless blacks and state cronies.

On Wednesday, SADC secretariat executive secretary Tomaz Salomao had implied that Western sanctions were contributing to Zimbabwe's economic hardships.

He described the country's economy as viable, saying: "Though some of our international cooperating partners don't accept that, the fact is that Zimbabwe is operating under sanctions".

The EU sanctions involve a travel ban against top officials and the freezing of their assets in European banks, as well as a ban on arms sales.

The United States has similar sanctions against members of the Zimbabwean regime.

Elsewhere in Lusaka on Thursday, Zimbabwe's Justice Minister Patrick Chinamasa told journalists his country needed no political reforms.

He blamed the country's economic problems on sanctions against top business people and political figures and dismissed reports of government human rights abuses.

"There are no political reforms necessary in my country," the minister said. "We have a democracy like any other democracy in the world."

South African President Thabo Mbeki, mandated by the SADC in March to broker a stalemate between Zimbabwe's ruling Zanu-PF and the main opposition Movement for Democratic Change, is due to report to the summit on the progress achieved.

Something on the news today about a meeting of African heads of state giving Mugabe their backing. Are they all in his pocket?

Not quite, it's a self preservation society. If you don't say anything about the fact that I'm robbing my own people, I'm not going to complain about you doing the same thing. :{

Sad to see so few in Africa speak up (Bishop Tutu sets the right example)

Hope that he gets booted from Portugal, if he still intents to come...

Frostbite,
Not in his pocket , just related by the same Baboon's gene pool I suspect.

What I am not understanding about this situation is how do the Mugabe folks expect to find an exit path from the progressive unwinding of Zimbabwe's economy?

Are they in denial?

Is Mugabe getting wrong information from his subordinates about circumstances and events in the nation, or is he suddenly just the world's greatest old fool?

Do they have a "hole-card" in waiting, such as a financial rescue package from Tehran or Beijing?

I have presided over a few major disasters, though none close to this magnitude, and know the sence of being caught on a current of unfriendly destiny, rocketing toward an impassable precipice. It does get one's attention, and normally inspires a more proactive approach, more than we are now seeing through the lens of the press, toward finding solutions. compromises. or plain escapes from the inevitable wreck ahead.

Who among you who are close to the scene can predict the endgame for this mess? And when will the shoe actually fall?

It's not getting any better...

TOP STORY
Man 'killed co-worker over food theft'

18/08/2007 18:01

A private security guard has attacked and killed a colleague he accused of stealing his bag of corn meal staple amid acute food shortages in Zimbabwe.

* 2 killed in Zim while queuing for sugar
* Zim bans import of groceries
* Commuter chaos in Zim


Arcniz, the fact is if Mugabe's opposition take power he'll be tried for a number of crimes against humanity. He has to die in power to avoid that. Additionally, strong rumours have been circulating for years that he's completely off his head. Either that or he's incredibly evil, which begs the question - Why were the western powers at Lancaster House so keen to see a known problem child in power rather than the moderate Abel Muzorewa?

Torygraph: Zimbabwe: anarchy in four, says the West (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=NKWWPHZOAJRGJQFIQMGCFF4AVCBQUIV0?xml=/news/2007/08/19/wzim119.xml)

The economy of Zimbabwe is facing total collapse within four months, leaving the country facing a slide into Congo-style anarchy, The Sunday Telegraph has been told. Western officials fear the business, farming and financial sectors may be crippled by Christmas, triggering a collapse of government control that could leave the country prey to warlords and ignite long-suppressed tribal tensions............

Speaking anonymously because of the sensitivity of the subject, one Western official said: "It is hard to be definitive, but probably within months, by the end of the year, we will see the formal economy cease to work." He added: "One of the great dangers in all this, if Mugabe hangs on for much longer, is that the country will slip from authoritarianism to anarchy, the government will lose control of the provinces, it will lose control of the towns and you will have a situation where the central authority's writ no longer holds."

Asked which other African nation Zimbabwe might end up resembling under a worst-case scenario, the official cited as an example the Democratic Republic of Congo (the former Zaire), beset for years by famine, civil war and inter-ethnic conflict. There are also fears that a breakdown in law and order could lead to an outbreak of ethnic conflict between Zimbabwe's two main tribes, Mugabe's own Shona and the Ndebele in the southwest. Some political groups are already talking about regime change as an opportunity to press for independence, while more extreme elements have voiced agendas that could amount to "ethnic cleansing".

The official added that, because of Mr Mugabe's slum clearance programme, -Zimbabwe's informal subsistence economy, made up largely of street traders, hawkers and black marketeers, had lost much its ability to absorb shocks from the government's three-month price freeze, which has emptied shop shelves of stocks. Poverty was now endemic, he said, with 80 per cent of people living "below any definition of the poverty line."

The fear among Western officials is that as Zimbabwe sinks deeper into crisis, the task of rebuilding, if or when Mugabe does go, is being made ever more difficult. The infrastructure is breaking down after years of no investment, with both Bulawayo and parts of the capital, Harare, virtually without water supplies. The Zimbabwe Electricity Supply Authority generates barely a fifth of the country's needs and neighbouring countries' generating companies are now refusing to sell to Zimbabwe except for cash.

John Robertson, a Harare-based independent economist, said the prediction that the formal economy would cease to function within four months might even be optimistic. "We could be a matter of a month or two away from that kind of collapse, and some would tell you that it's happened already," he said. "They can't pay the wages that would be necessary for people to carry on working, because the price at which they're allowed to sell goods is way below the production costs.".........

:ugh:

When Mugabe does decide to leave the country of his abominated ruination you may be just about certain to find him, shortly thereafter, very pleasantly ensconced in Paradise.
One has to be a little careful about this because the country in question does not like criticism from foreigners, whose best ineterests are usually served by keeping their heads down well below the parapets. However, the jungle drums will have it that RM will move from one, one party state to another, where elections are also held from time to time. You may expect to find him in Seychelles.:suspect:

Will we soon add Mugabe alongside Pol Pot, Mao, and Stalin in the roll of prolific Marxist killers?

His redistributionist populism enamoured him to the worldwide Left, including the 'great' Jimmy Carter, who facilitated his taking control. He dispossessed the traditional farmers who were of the wrong color in the name of redistribution and redressing colonialism, and it has been straight downhill from there.

Be careful what you ask for would be a good lesson to draw for us in the West.

A question you might ask yourself is, "Is there a principle playing out here that might make a sentient person worry about Chavez?" Not for his international dispute with the US, but for his future, ultimate impact on Venezuelans. I see some similarities.

Perhaps that's a question for another thread.

My heartfelt sympathies to the people of Zimbabwe, past and present, who suffer under this despot. Cheers to a better future when he's gone.

Benthere,

His form of government enamoured him with many, not just the left, as in its early days it was the damn right thing to do. Obviously a lot of folk who felt African independence was a bad thing (ie, it is our god given right to shaft African nations) didn't agree and still don't.

The problem with Mugabe is he, like any ruler who outstays their welcome, has become corrupted and a holds no resemblance to the individual who initially took power. The "farm redistributions" are nothing to do with Marxist principals of redistributing wealth at all, if anything a means to break up rural workers unions.

The day that Chavez is not elected in a fair election you may have a point, until then they are simply worlds apart.

It was known Mugabe was not to be trusted, even before he came to power. He was placed there by the western powers he so despises, ahead of the more popular moderate candidate, Abel Muzorewa.

"The problem with Mugabe is he, like any ruler who outstays their welcome, has become corrupted and a holds no resemblance to the individual who initially took power."


He has been corrupt from Day One. He and his thugs immediately set about the destruction that has been a hallmark of his time in office.

A friend (now deceased) managed a successful farm and told me of attacks and intimidation on his workers within hours of the election.

Not to mention the attacks and massacres in Matabeleland by his 5th Brigade goons which began within weeks of him taking power, the minute he'd got them set up.

Frsotbite, that doesn't surprise me at all. Considering the land allocation at the time of his election, did you really expect white farmers to be left alone?

When Ian Smith was in power, Rhodesia was in a much better state, than it is now with old Bob running the show. Remember they had a civil war, UDI, sanctions and the rest of it at the time.

Of course the world turned their back on Ian Smith, so this baboon is now in power and successfully raping the country.

The rest of the world wanted Magabe in power and this is the result.

"Considering the land allocation at the time of his election, did you really expect white farmers to be left alone?"


It wasn't the farmers (at that point) who were being beaten and killed - it was the indigenous workers, 'to encourage the others'.

Sunray Minor,you are unfortunately letting ideology take precedence over reality. I was no fan of Smith's white supremacist views, but Mugabe was always going to be and has proven to be a disaster since taking over. No amount of ideological purity can take away fro the fact that the bread basket of Africa has become yet another basket case, and the answer lies in racism, of black hatred for whites.

Spout all you like about the reasons, justifications and rationalisations for that hatred, but it has destroyed a country. A murderous thug has subverted all ideas of democracy to his own bitter and corrupt ideology, and combined with latent senescence he has set back the possibilities of black power in Africa for a century.

If the pathetic remains of Rhodesia are ever to be rescued, there is a mighty fine case for removing this thug from power by whatever means necessary. What a pity Dubya decided it was more important to claim an interest in "restoring" democracy to a country which has no clue what it is than to use his power somewhere it may possibly have done some good. Ahh, isn't oil wonderful?

:hmm:

It is sadly interesting to see that South Africa is now about to reap the reward of a refugee crisis which is in considerable part a consequence of that country's actions and inactions.
The bleat that comes from south of the Limpopo is that Britain and particularly the USA would have done more had there been oil in Zimbabwe. This is a fatuous argument which ignores reality. Zimbabwe counts for nothing in the world and South Africa, at the end of the day, probably not for much more. If any one country is to be blamed for the continuance and exercise of power of Robert Mugabe in what was Southern Rhodesia, it is South Africa. By its continued support for his regime, in whatever manner it has been given and for whatever political or military reasons, South Africa,the only African power south of the Sahara merits real opprobrium, which will, of course, not be forthcoming.:ugh:

And pray, what form should this opprobrium take?

Sorry for suggesting that more interest may have been taken in the Zimbabwean situation had it been sitting on a sea of oil. That was clearly fatuous. :hmm:

No amount of ideological purity can take away fro the fact that the bread basket of Africa has become yet another basket case, and the answer lies in racism, of black hatred for whites.

Allow me to disagree, it has little to do with Racism, Mugabe is equally harsh to black opponents. The reason Zimbabwe became a basket case (IMHO) has little to do with racism or black vs white, but everything to do with "African politics". Allow me to expand.

After grabbing power by force Mugabe had a wide mandate, among many people. Even Smith himself said after a conversation that he didn't seem that bad. Instead of governing the country, Mugabe and cronies had only one objective, gather as much wealth, while being in power.

Mugabe doesn't hate the white farmers, but he does need their land and divide the spoils of power among his supporters. If the farmers would have been black, they'd lost their land just the same. Just look at recent actions, where poor blacks (mainly MDC supporters) were on the receiving end of state violence.

As long as enough people are on the gravy train, it will keep riding. Similar things has happened in plenty of other African countries. Tribalism or racism has got nothing to do with it. It's just abuse of power to get rich, and divide the spoils with your supporters, hang on to power as long as you can. The next president will probably do the same, and on and on and :{

:)

Forms of opprobrium can be as diversified as terms of endearment.;)

It's just abuse of power to get rich, and divide the spoils with your supporters, hang on to power as long as you can. The next president will probably do the same, and on and on and

Greed and corruption are not surprising - all political systems and all politicians dip at least a digit or two in the same bath, methinks.

The odd thing is (if we are to believe the world press) that Zimbabwe is increasingly becoming broken as an economic entity. The opportunity for plunder and 'getting rich' seems to be leaving the theatre.

Is there any possible role for Mugabe and his hench-fellows if the government's civil authority and the economic system just totally crash? Does one become more or less vulnerable to assassination as a leader when the financial system is kaput? Hard to carry enough bars of gold... or even sacks of diamonds... to keep the regime-change folks at bay...especially when many millions in safe cash are surely on offer to the author of a single well-placed bullet?

Still plenty of ways getting rich, all works along the same way. The ones on the gravy train procure something on friendly terms through the Gov and sell them on the black market. As long as you keep printing those Zim$, force other people (you're on the side of law) to accept the official price, and then sell the same good onto the black market, getting a nice mark-up.

Another great thing is, international aid agencies must procure Zim$ at the central bank, against the official exchange rate. Giving the central bank much needed hard cash. The aid agency then has nice shiny newly printed Zim$ that are worthless on the blackmarket. Of course, if your uncle works at the central bank, you can sell those Aid USD at the black market, making loads of money...

But as the spoils grow less abundant (after a while there is nothing left to steal, and even the printing press runs out of paper), then the supporters grew fewer and fewer. Two options are likely then, either it will be Somalia-like meltdown or another guy comes in and robs the same place again and again.

...another guy comes in and robs the same place again and again.

And why not? Works in Haiti.

Juud,

Just scuttlebut however the rumours are that Mugabe paid for Mbeki's son's education. Their joint delusional Marxist tendencies also help. As of 2005 he was building a house outside of Capetown which was valued at over $45 by the locals. All just gossip really, I've never seen any of this stuff written.

As for Mugabe being overthrown, it won't happen. If you have control of the army then you have ultimate political power in Africa. His likely successor is a very odd lady indeed. Famed for shooting down a Rhodesian helicopter at a time when female insurgents could expect to be raped daily by their own troops, you could say shes a tough cookie. Probably slightly more bonkers than Mugabe, .

I wouldn't expect much different from Morgan either. He might not be bonkers but that only takes a few years in charge. As far as I can tell he completely agrees with the 'redistribution' of land. He'd have to win a rigged election anyway, if he's still alive, which won't happen.

Its all academic, at the end of the day, whoever wins, the lunatics will have taken the asylum.

The good (productive) days are gone for ever.

mini, ex Zim resident. Heartbroken.

Sir Humphry must be turning in his grave.

Africa, south of the Sahara is incapable of governing itself. Africa's only savior
is going to be Chinese colonization.:uhoh:

Chinese colonisation is a double edged sword that will, unfortunately, make your average African's eyes water.....:(

Well, the Chinese already have the Panama Canal, I guess it is just logical that Africa would be next.

How's that, CP?

By Staff Reporter
Last updated: 09/20/2007 01:35:44
BRITISH Airways (BA) is ending its three-days-a-week direct flights to Zimbabwe, it was announced Wednesday.

The service will stop on October 28 this year...

It is thought the BA pull-out could also encourage other British businesses to review their links with the Southern African country, which has seen inflation rocket to 6600% per cent.

The airline insists that the decision is for "commercial reasons" and not a boycott of President Robert Mugabe's regime

Errrr, OK then....:suspect:

How's that, CP?

About the canal arcniz? A Chinese Government owned company is the sole operator of the Panama Canal now and I believe has something like a 20 year contract to operate the canal and all of it's functions. Let me look up some more details and I'll get back to you.

Oh, one more thing. The last time I was in Panama, about 4 years ago, the Panamanian Government was seriouly considering a contract with China (PRC) for the PRC Military to supply protection of the canal as there are no U.S. forces in Panama anymore. I have not heard anymore so I can assume that the deal fell through.

I would be interested to see what solutions to this situation the ones who are vehemently anti US foreign policy can offer.

Kaos theory will no doubt be invoked (in hindsight) so whatever the outcome 5-10 years down the line, the "blame" will be laid firmly at the feet of whoever in our Govts made the first move, in whatever direction.

We should stay well out of it. We will only be lambasted years down the line for any negative aspect of an outcome.

The Zimbabwean
Tuesday, 13 November 2007 17:13
HARARE - Zimbabwe is buying arms from China in exchange for mining and
farming concessions, prompting fears that the army is planning a coup in the
event of an election defeat for President Robert Mugabe.
The shipment of heavy assault rifles, military vehicles and tanks, riot
equipment, tear gas and rubber batons is being secretly moved through the
port of Beira in Mozambique.
The purchase, confirmed by a Chinese defence journal this week, confirms
information given to Home Affairs Minister Kembo Mohadi three weeks ago by
an opposition delegation.
The MDC delegation, led by Home Affairs Shadow Minister Sam Sipepa-Nkomo,
told the Minister that it had information the ruling party had ordered
weapons from South Africa.
That purchase, however, was scuttled by President Thabo Mbeki, who refused
to okay the sale arguing it was in breach of international protocols banning
the sale of weapons of war to fuel conflict.
Andrei Chang, Editor-in-Chief of the Chinese army's Kanwa Defense Review,
based in Hong Kong wrote last Friday: "Zimbabwe is already acquiring stocks
of Chinese weapons. The country's main battle tanks are virtually all made
in China. At present, the Zimbabwe Army is equipped with 30 Type 59 tanks
and 10 Type 69 tanks, and more than half of its armoured transport vehicles
are Chinese-made Type 63s. The Zimbabwe Air Force is also armed with nine
J-7 fighters."
Army officials and the Defence Minister, Sydney Sekeramayi, have declined to
comment on the arms purchase.
Defence sources said the equipment would ensure the army was well equipped
in case Mugabe's Zanu (PF) loses the ballot and needs military help to hold
on to power.
Senior military officials have vowed that they would not salute a new
president without revolutionary credentials and warned the army would stage
a coup if Mugabe were voted out of power in favour of his main opponent
Morgan Tsvangirai.
But the army's ability to take power and keep order has been severely
curtailed by a United States and European Union arms embargo imposed in
2002. - Chief Reporter

________________________________________________

Zim: War heroes & plenty zeros

Nov 13 2007 08:50 AM

Trader Vic

OVER THE past three weeks, the Zimbabwe dollar has quietly lost about 75% of its value again. On the informal market, you now need ZW$4.5m to buy US$1. The official exchange rate, which is also only a few months old, is given by the Zimbabwe central bank as ZW$30 000 per US$1.

Gideon Gono, governor of the country's central bank, is still bravely trying to maintain that this is the actual rate, but on the informal, and real, market, Gono's umpteenth new currency has already lost 99.3% of its value.

This may sound like old and irrelevant news, but remember that the collapse of a country's economy and the value of its currency will finally break the back of the undemocratic government of the day.

The easiest way of calculating the value of the Zimbabwe dollar is by simply looking at the share prices of Old Mutual or PPCement, which are listed on the Zimbabwe Stock Exchange in exactly the same format as in SA. In mid-October, PPC was trading at about ZW$4m in Harare. On the JSE, the price was about R44, giving a rand/ZW$ exchange rate of ZW$90 000 for one small R1 coin.

On November 12, the price of PPC in Harare rose to about ZW$18m, while on the JSE it was trading at R47, giving a new exchange rate of ZW$380 000 for just R1.

Handing out money he didn't have

The latest sharp fall in the value of the Zimbabwe dollar happened to occur exactly 10 years since November 14 1997 when President Robert Mugabe granted every war veteran ZW$50 000, which was then worth US$1 315.

Incidentally, the Zimbabwe dollar of 1994 has since lost three of its zeros, and the money granted then, which would be only ZW$50 in today's currency, is too small to be expressed in any other currency. In fact, 76 of the war veterans would have to pool their 1994 grants to buy one SA cent.

In 1994, the value of the Zimbabwe dollar also fell by about 75% after President Mugabe was so generous in handing out money that he didn't have, but then the share prices also fell sharply by about 40%. At the moment, share prices are rising again every time the value of the Zimbabwe currency falls, more or less retaining their value in rands or US dollars.

The following few figures for the performance of the country's index for mining share prices over the past year show how difficult it is now to get your zeros right.

Mining index: January 2007 = 410 000
Index: November = 847 161 068
Points increase, ytd = 846 751 764
Percentage increase, 206 876%

House prices

If the enormous increase in the value of the mining index is adjusted in line with the official exchange rate of ZW$250 at the beginning of 2007, which has since weakened to ZW$30 000, this gives an increase of 720% in US dollars.

I am going to predict now already that many analysts who have nothing better to do are, just as in the past, going to pick the Zimbabwe Stock Exchange as the share market that has done the best in the world during 2007. What absolute rubbish.

But it's not only share prices in Zimbabwe that are moving at top speed to keep ahead of the falling value of the Zimbabwe dollar. House prices are now also being expressed in strange ways.

In the select northern suburbs of Harare, several fine houses are now being offered on property.co.zw for between ZW$300 and ZW$500 ... oh, and plus nine zeros, whatever that might be. Use the exchange rate of ZW$380 000 calculated above, and you'll see that in ordinary money terms these houses are going for about R750 000 to R1.25m.

- Fin24

Interesting post there, SRT.

The only good thing that might come out of it is, if Mugabe does lose the election and resort to force to hang on to power, then all the fluffists that are holding back might decide that it is indeed time to get stuck into Zim to restore at least a shred of democracy.

Senior military officials have vowed that they would not salute a new
president without revolutionary credentials and warned the army would stage
a coup if Mugabe were voted out of power in favour of his main opponent
Morgan Tsvangirai.
Everything that leaks out of Zim seems to be in code, these days. If one takes the quote at face value, then the army might support another leader with revolutionary credentials. Who's that gonna be?

Seems that the problem anyone faces with being in charge of Zim now is that the economy is headed on a fast track back to the stone age. Perhaps the current regime can barter for supplies and materials from folks such as the Chinese in exchange for licenses, rights, etc.... but any serious change of power will likely void such promises in short order, so the people trading with M must be dealing in cash at above market prices or must think they are receiving some kind of guarantees for the long term future. How will that work?

Does this arms deal imply that the Chinese have decided to become the underwriters of Mugabe & Co. for the next act of the Zim tragedy? If so, then the Sinos likely will be eating on him at the head while the poor suffering people of Zim are nibbling at his toes. Do they really want Zim as a puppet colony? Big headache for many continents maybe if that happens and plays all the way thru.

Its not all sweetness and light for the Chinese, I was in the DA's office in Gweru a few years ago (03), also there were the Chinese guys that operated the local cement factory. They were pulling out of the operation due to local economic factors and were not happy... :sad:

Mugabe has only so much to "sell"

Sadly, Bob McCabe is like any and all African presidents, possibly worse but not much. It is only now that the cold war is over that what he does is causing a stink. Take the likes of Mobutu, Amin and lots of others. If they were on OUR side then we let them do whatever they pleased and even paid their bills.

Mugabe's only real problem is that he is a dinosaur without a cold war to carry on propping him up.

When Rhodesia became Zim it was hailed as the yardstick for Africa as was Namibia years later as is South Africa now. Yet, slowly and insiduosly, things start to unravel and when the unraveling stops is the critical thing.

Zim has gotten really threadbare and the fabric is about to fail.

A tourism promoter in Zimbabwe has been arrested for allegedly defacing bank notes to use as business cards.

Denis Paul is accused of insulting behaviour for handing out 10-cent Zimbabwean notes stamped with his business details at a tourism fair.

Officials say his actions in effect discouraged tourism to Zimbabwe.

Banks say the cost of printing the 10-cent notes by far exceed their face value. If found guilty, Mr Paul could face up to a year in prison.

Correspondent says the single-cent bank notes - or bearer cheques as they are known - released last year have become obsolete because of rampant inflation.

A single match stick costs Z$3,000, AP news agency reports.

Last month, Zimbabwe's chief statistician said it is impossible to work out the country's latest inflation rate because of the lack of goods in shops.

'Useless'

According Zimbabwe's state-owned Herald newspaper, Mr Paul gave out the bank notes at a World Tourism Market fair in London last month.

"It was not my intention to demonise the country and I gave them [the cards] only to people I knew," he told the paper.

But the Zimbabwe Tourism Authority alleges that Mr Paul discouraged tourism by insinuating that the country's currency was useless, the Herald says.

Mr Paul, a 41-year-old professional hunter and lodge owner from Bulawayo, believed the bearer cheques had expired, Reuters news agency reports.

The bearer cheques, introduced in the last few years to cope with inflation, have expiry dates which tend to be ignored.

The country has the world's highest inflation rate and at the official exchange rate $1 fetches Z$30,000.

This week, the black-market price rose from about Z$1m to Z$4m for $1, financial agency Bloomberg News reports.

September's inflation rate was put at almost 8,000%.

Other reports suggest the rate could be at near 15,000%.

If anyone has any remaining doubts about the seriousness of the situation in Zimbabwe, have a look at this clandestine video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPKGZreusoQ&feature=related)made by Ginny Stein, freelance video journalist for Australia's SBS Dateline programme.

Note especially the words of Zimbabwe's ambassador to South Africa, Simon Khaya Moyo as he lies through his teeth about the availability of goods in the shops and other aspects of life in this devastated country.

Mugabe doesn't seem to be feeling any pain though ... here's a piccie of his humble abode:-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v511/BlueDiamond01/mugabe001.jpg

Gono unveils new banknotes

December 20 2007 at 12:23AM

By MacDonald Dzirutwe

Harare - Zimbabwe's central bank on Wednesday announced the introduction of higher denomination banknotes to help end a cash crunch that has seen people besiege banks.

Central bank governor Gideon Gono announced in a televised speech that the Z$200 000 bill - currently the highest value note and equivalent to $6.66 at the official rate and $0.12 on the widely used black market - would be phased out by January 1.

Gono said higher-value Z$750 000, Z$500 000 and Z$250 000 bills would start circulating on Thursday in an attempt to end cash shortages that have forced some people to sleep outside banks in the hunt for cash amid a severe economic crisis blamed on President Robert Mugabe's policies.
Critics say the new banknotes will do little to address the causes of Zimbabwe's economic slide, which include the world's highest inflation rate, acute shortages of foreign currency, food and fuel, and unemployment of nearly 80 percent.

Gono said the Z$200 000 note was the most used by illegal dealers.

He said individual depositors would not be allowed to bank more than Z$50-million and any excess funds would be forfeited to the government. All banks would from Thursday be manned by government officials to monitor cash deposits.

"The cash shortages will be a thing of the past. Within the next few days there will be sufficient cash to go about our business," Gono said.

Tempers have been fraying more than usual in recent days as Zimbabweans have crowded into banks in search of cash, which is in short supply ahead of the Christmas holiday.

Gono said he had refused calls by the business sector to lop zeros off the Zimbabwe dollar to make life easier for shoppers, who now must carry piles of cash to make even simple purchases.

The Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe chief again accused senior government and business officials of being the brains behind a flourishing illegal parallel market in foreign currency, fuel, diamonds and gold.

Gono said the stringent deposit requirements would expose the "cash barons" and that there would be a "serious clean-up" of banks he accused of working with illegal dealers to siphon cash out of the banking system.

When challenged in an interview after his televised speech to name the officials involved in illegal activities, Gono said he would divulge the information to parliament if asked.

"I will be happy to name some of these cash barons before a parliamentary committee. If they (parliamentary committee) have got the guts, I will give them a full house."

I wonder what term Zimbabwean journalists have turned to to describe somebody wealthy. Buggerall use being a millionaire, or even a billionaire over there.

Sometimes I wish I could believe in an afterlife so there would be some satisfaction in knowing life's arseholes really would be punished eventually.

Well, an article (http://www.zimbabwejournalists.com/story.php?art_id=3345&cat=2) on the Zimbabwe Journalists website welcomes the election of Jacob Zuma as leader of the ANC in South Africa. The Zimbabwe situation was a factor in the election, working against Mbeki, who has basically mollycoddled Mugabe in the name of "African unity". The Global Zimbabwe Forum calls on Zuma to be "even more clear and unequivocal in his stance against any form of dictatorship and human rights abuse in Zimbabwe".

Zimbabwe is the paragon of a failed state. When Mugabe pops his clogs, I think South Africa will basically need to go in there and take over: replace the Z$ with the Rand, ignore the border and ship in supplies and materials en masse, re-organise the government institutions that are supposed to be working for the people.

South Africa will end up with a new province, just north of Limpopo. I certainly expect little from any of Zimbabwe's other neighbours, even those that are doing OK e.g. Zambia, Botswana - what have they done so far? :rolleyes:

When Mugabe pops his clogs, I think South Africa will basically need to go in there and take over: ...South Africa will be too busy trying to solve its own considerable problems and prevent itself from sliding down the tube in Zim's wake. Any attempts at "rescue" would be too great a drain on South Africa's resources especially when it is likely that Zimbabwe is now well beyond help.

These words from Ross Dix-Peek sum up the situation ... bluntly and graphically:-

"How did it all go so wrong, ask those who demanded "change" three-decades-ago. What happened to the utter delirium, that was independence, the unbridled joy, that was "freedom"? But, is it not blatantly obvious? Those who know Africa's History, its protean past, are not shocked, nor caught unawares. When that viper, Robert Mugabe, usurped power way back in 1980, and took the helm of poor Zimbabwe's destiny, only the dimwitted, the obtuse, the fatuous, thought that Zimbabwe and its "enfranchised" masses were well on their way to prosperity. Only the befuddled, Harold Wilson, David Owen and Garfield Todd among them, thought that their work was done, that they had helped erect an African 'Utopia".


Initially, things went well, and angst turned into unfounded euphoria. Zimbabwe would make it, so many thought. But, history and reality was against them! Still, they took no heed. Twenty-seven years later, "Utopia" is now "Dystopia", quite literally the "Zimbabwean Ruins". Yet none of those reprobates who were responsible for the unforgivable destruction of a wonderful country, have even proffered a semblance of an apology, nor attempted to right such an egregious wrong! And still, the demented one, rife with syphilis, holds sway over the broken and dejected masses. But, do not think for one moment, that a change of government, and the genesis of a new leader, will herald peace, prosperity, rejuvenation and a new dawn. That is not how Africa works; Africa is the very crucible of Dictatorships, Oppression and Subjugation! And so we lamentably entreat, Who will save Zimbabwe? And the Zimbabweans? The sad verity, the abject truth, is...no-one, not the world, nor Africa, and certainly not South Africa! They quite simply do not give a continental damn!"


Ross Dix-Peek was born in Salisbury, Rhodesia (Harare, Zimbabwe) in 1970. He is an archivist by profession, and a freelance writer.

Good post, Bluey, though having said that I know it normally means "yep, what he said".

I was grateful for the potted biog of Mr Dix-Peek, even though his name could be the subject of hilarity among doubters. But who could doubt what he said?

Surely given the bankruptcy (financial, not moral) of the erstwhile jewel in the crown of Africa there could hardly be enough money left to support too many Mugabe sycophants. Even the army must realise eventually that going without pay to support the ideals of the only bloke left in the country who's getting paid is an argument with the odd flaw?

Somebody kill the bastard and soon. Where the feck are the CIA when they could actually do some good? I doubt Zimbabwe can ever recover, but who knows?

South Africa will be too busy trying to solve its own considerable problems and prevent itself from sliding down the tube in Zim's wake. Any attempts at "rescue" would be too great a drain on South Africa's resources especially when it is likely that Zimbabwe is now well beyond help.
I disagree: already, millions of Zimbabweans are in South Africa, trying to make money to send back. I'd say the Zimbabwe economy is already tied to SA's, much as Mexico's is tied to the USA's - but to a far greater degree, as a proportion of the population (I don't have up-to-date figures though.) IMHO whatever happens, SA is going to be dragged in, at the economic level at least, so I think they'd better plan to manage that process. :hmm:

Binoculars quote;
Somebody kill the bastard and soon. Where the feck are the CIA when they could actually do some good?

Send your own boys if it means that much to you. We're busy.

Binoculars quote;
Somebody kill the bastard and soon. Where the feck are the CIA when they could actually do some good?

Send your own boys if it means that much to you. We're busy.

Actually, the world and the Democrats have been busy effectively declawing the CIA (again).

Then they'll b1tch and moan about the CIA not being effective when something large in the US goes boom......

... millions of Zimbabweans are in South Africa, trying to make money to send back. I'd say the Zimbabwe economy is already tied to SA's, ...
In that sense, bnt, you could say that yes. the two economies are joined at the hip. However, when you take into account South Africa's very high unemployment rate, then in real terms, that may not be the case. It is difficult to get an accurate figure on unemployment statistics but it seems that between 38-42% is about right. If that is so (and it certainly isn't far wrong) then the number of jobs available to Zim refugees would be severely limited. It would follow that any earnings made by these people would be needed to support themselves before any could be spared to send "back home" to Zimbabwe.

Just Binos
If the pathetic remains of Rhodesia are ever to be rescued, there is a mighty fine case for removing this thug from power by whatever means necessary. What a pity Dubya decided it was more important to claim an interest in "restoring" democracy to a country which has no clue what it is than to use his power somewhere it may possibly have done some good. Ahh, isn't oil wonderful?

Nice revisionist straw man....Nobody ever talked about "restoring" democracy to Iraq. It's always been common knowledge it never existed under Baath-Socialists, Commies, or as a British Protectorate with a post-WW1, installed monarchy. Prior to that, of course, it was part of the Ottoman Empire. In fact, the naysayers usual (thinly-veiled racist) view is democracy won't work in Iraq because the populace has never known it.

And it's a fact of life that up until the time the industrialized world runs on warm fuzzy feelings or energy tapped from Al Gore's hot air, oil remains an item of national interest to pretty much every country on the planet.

If it's a "mighty fine case" then I'm sure if you bring it before the UN they'll jump right on it. I mean, just look at their track record of success in the former Yugoslavia, Rwanda, Sudan, finishing the job in Iraq the first time, etc. etc....

You're in Oz? But want the U.S. Cavalry to ride in? Gee I can't think of any good reason why you're not willing to first spend some Australian blood getting rid of this tryant rather than deciding so quickly Americans should spend theirs on your say-so.

Last time I checked Oz's government was a form of democracy; Have you used your voice and writing ability to lobby your govenment for Australian military intervention yet?.....or is all your writing effort spent here complaining that the U.S. and "Dubya" isn't doing it for you.

It would not be beyond the capabilities of a group of like minded governments, or even a government to secretly assemble a group of mercenaries to rid the world of this excresence.

But then, there's no money in it.

Getting worse...:(

Zim life tougher and... tougher

Bulawayo - As I drove from the border with South Africa to my hometown I recalled the refrain Zimbabweans use when pondering the economic meltdown in their country: "surely things cannot get any worse than they are".

That mantra had helped them soldier on during the last eight years as they grappled with an ever-growing list of shortages, which now included water and electricity.

But on my journey home to Bulawayo, which should have taken three hours but lasted double that as I dodged gaping potholes in the pitchblack night, I realised things had gotten worse.

After 14 months living in Johannesburg, with its tarred highways and bustling, well-stocked shopping malls, getting reacquainted with the hardships back home took the joy out of reuniting with family and friends for Christmas.

Bulawayo 'Zim's cleanest city'

When I went to the bathroom in my parents' house, my mother handed me a bucket of rainwater to flush the toilet and wash my hands, because there was nothing in the cistern or the tap.

Although drought-prone Bulawayo was enjoying its wettest summer in recent history, running water from the city council had been erratic for months; there was no money to import treatment chemicals.

I got used to seeing women and children balancing containers on their heads along dusty township roads, begging water from residents lucky enough to have some.

Bulawayo long enjoyed a reputation as Zimbabwe's cleanest city, with charming, colonial-style buildings, but the walls were now peeling and gone too were the street cleaners who used to keep the central business district pristine.

Stinking litter lay rotting in makeshift dumps close to houses. The garbage disposal company stopped its weekly collections three months ago because of a fuel shortage.

"We try and burn some of the trash, and dig the rest into the ground," my mother said, pointing at mounds of soil in what used to be her tiny but lush vegetable garden.

Power disruptions

A sense of despair hung over the city, with none of the spontaneous parties, complete with loud music that had heralded Christmas Day on my previous visits home.

This was partly because electricity was now a rare commodity. The pile of firewood in my parents' backyard and the candles in every room said it all.

The power disruptions, already in evidence before I left the country, had worsened as state utility ZESA struggled to import energy in the face of a foreign currency crunch.

The goodwill that had kept Zimbabwe lit despite mounting debts to her neighbours was drying up.

Watching the billowing smoke in our neighbourhood as people cooked evening meals, I mused that I could be in a rural village, and not the second-largest city in what used to be one of Africa's most thriving economies.

Whilst one is in no way a supporter of Nicholas van Hoogstraten, the news that he has been arrested and charged with currency offences causes a mixed reaction:-
The state-run Herald newspaper said Mr van Hoogstraten, 63, was charged with breaking foreign exchange laws after a night raid at his Harare home.
He is accused of demanding rent in overseas currency, contrary to Zimbabwean law, the newspaper said.
A police spokesman told it that Mr van Hoogstraten, of Uckfield, East Sussex, owns about 200 properties in Zimbabwe.
Officers recovered 20 billion Zimbabwe dollars (£335,883; US$665,148) in cash, US$37,586 (£18,980), 92,880 South African rands (£6,552; US$12,975), £190 (US$376) and 180 Botswana pula (£15; US$29).
Zimbabwean law prohibits the use of foreign currencies for local goods and services.
(from:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7210688.stm )

AMF, it was Binoculars (and mine I'm sorry to say) Prime Minister Malcolm Fraser at whose feet a lot of the responsibility falls. In 1979 Fraser was in Zambia in August for the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting. At this meeting, and the follow-up at Lancaster House in London later that year, the Australian Prime Minister’s influence was a key factor in the progress towards the independence of Zimbabwe. The supervised elections and Commonwealth-monitored ceasefire produced the first majority representation in the former Rhodesia, and made Robert Mugabe the Prime Minister of Zimbabwe. At the independence celebrations in Salisbury in 1980, Malcolm Fraser’s contribution was firmly acknowledged.

I'd like to think that had anyone - e.g. Smith, Fraser, Callaghan or Thatcher - foreseen Mugabe's excesses, they would have pushed for a different outcome. How can we "blame" anyone else for how Mugabe turned out?

I believe Smith warned the others about Mugabe but was ignored. Abel Muzorewa was the preferred moderate candidate IIRC, but Mugabe was railroaded through at the insistence of Carter, Jackson and Ashe.

Probably get a better take on things by Googling. Memory pretty rusty.

I was down in Rhodesia during the height of the civil war. Even then the place was in better shape than is has been for the last 10 years, or more and that was without the billions poured into the place in the last 28 years.

Yes the world wanted Magabe in, or more correctly want Smith out, well here are the results for the world to see.

I have heard time and again over the last 15 years how these great strapping "Boers" and Ex Selous Scouts" were going to take Magabe out. Well what happened? They dropped their guts, that's what happened! Don't tell me you held fire because someone worse might get in because who ever it is can't be any worse than Bob. Unfortunately because of this Bob taken most of you out.

I doubt any of those you spoke to were the real thing. An act like that would achieve nothing except to spark off more violence. The new bloke would follow the same path as Mugabe in due course. It's a problem with which Africa seems to be plagued, that of hunger for power at all costs. Unfortunately, the solution is unclear....

If you want to be really disillusioned, read John Le Carre's latest novel, "The Mission Song". It's not about Zim, (it's about Kivu in the Congo), but I suspect anyone who knows anything about Zim will see a lot of parallels, particularly in the hopelessness.

(Good read by the way, as his yarns usually are.)

Cartoon from The Economist ...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v511/BlueDiamond01/Mugabe001-1.jpg

The vulture is saying, "At least the country is no longer moving backwards."

Friday, 18 January 2008, 11:36 GMT:-
Zimbabwe's central bank is to introduce new higher-denomination banknotes in an effort to ease the critical shortage of cash in the country.
The highest value note that will go into circulation on Friday is worth 10m Zimbabwean dollars.
But that is worth less than US$3.90 (£2; 2.60 euros) on the black market.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7195569.stm

Dated December 20 2007 at 12:23AM:-
Central bank governor Gideon Gono announced in a televised speech that the Z$200 000 bill - currently the highest value note and equivalent to $6.66 at the official rate and $0.12 on the widely used black market - would be phased out by January 1.
Gono said higher-value Z$750 000, Z$500 000 and Z$250 000 bills would start circulating on Thursday in an attempt to end cash shortages that have forced some people to sleep outside banks in the hunt for cash amid a severe economic crisis blamed on President Robert Mugabe's policies.
Critics say the new banknotes will do little to address the causes of Zimbabwe's economic slide, which include the world's highest inflation rate, acute shortages of foreign currency, food and fuel, and unemployment of nearly 80 percent.
He said individual depositors would not be allowed to bank more than Z$50-million and any excess funds would be forfeited to the government. All banks would from Thursday be manned by government officials to monitor cash deposits.
"The cash shortages will be a thing of the past. Within the next few days there will be sufficient cash to go about our business," Gono said.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3785843&postcount=165

Not long now...:(

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii236/bomroller/Malala_copy.jpg

RAINBOW NATION

..A...B .......AT ON

A BATON

... but who will pick it up?

Not Everyone Is Celebrally Excavated......sorrieeee
watp,iktch

Zim inflation rate 100580% and SA heading down the same road. Meanwhile, Mugabe spends US$8mil on a birthday celebration while his people starve...

From an award winning Scottish newspaper.... (WHY NOT A SOUTH AFRICAN NEWSPAPER.!!?)

Wounded Nation

AFTER bathing in the warm, fuzzy glow of the Mandela years, South Africans today are deeply demoralised people. The lights are going out in homes, mines, factories and shopping malls as the national power authority, Eskom - suffering from mismanagement, lack of foresight, a failure to maintain power stations and a flight of skilled engineers to other countries - implements rolling power cuts that plunge towns and cities into daily chaos.

Major industrial projects are on hold. The only healthy enterprise now worth being involved in is the sale of small diesel generators to powerless households but even this business has run out of supplies and spare parts from China.

The currency, the rand, has entered freefall. Crime, much of it gratuitously violent, is rampant, and the national police chief faces trial for corruption and defeating the ends of justice as a result of his alleged deals with a local mafia kingpin and dealer in hard drugs.

Newly elected African National Congress (ANC) leader Jacob Zuma, the state president-in-waiting, narrowly escaped being jailed for raping an HIV-positive woman last year, and faces trial later this year for soliciting and accepting bribes in connection with South Africa's shady multi-billion-pound arms deal with British, German and French weapons manufacturers.

One local newspaper columnist suggests that Zuma has done for South Africa's international image what Borat has done for Kazakhstan. ANC leaders in 2008 still speak in the spiritually dead jargon they learned in exile in pre-1989 Moscow, East Berlin and Sofia while promiscuously embracing capitalist icons - Mercedes 4x4s, Hugo Boss suits, Bruno Magli shoes and Louis Vuitton bags which they swing, packed with money passed to them under countless tables - as they wing their way to their houses in the south of France.

It all adds up to a hydra-headed crisis of huge proportions - a perfect storm as the Rainbow Nation slides off the end of the rainbow and descends in the direction of the massed ranks of failed African states. Eskom has warned foreign investors with millions to sink into big industrial and mining projects: we don't want you here until at least 2013, when new power stations will be built.

In the first month of this year, the rand fell 12% against the world's major currencies and foreign investors sold off more than £600 million worth of South African stocks, the biggest sell-off for more than seven years.

"There will be further outflows this month, because there won't be any news that will convince investors the local growth picture is going to change for the better," said Rudi van der Merwe, a fund manager at South Africa's Standard Bank.

Commenting on the massive power cuts, Trevor Gaunt, professor of electrical engineering at the University of Cape Town, who warned the government eight years ago of the impending crisis, said: "The damage is huge, and now South Africa looks just like the rest of Africa. Maybe it will take 20 years to recover."

The power cuts have hit the country's platinum, gold, manganese and high-quality export coal mines particularly hard, with no production on some days and only 40% to 60% on others.

"The shutdown of the mining industry is an extraordinary, unprecedented event," said Anton Eberhard, a leading energy expert and professor of business studies at the University of Cape Town.

"That's a powerful message, massively damaging to South Africa's reputation for new investment. Our country was built on the mines."

To examine how the country, widely hailed as Africa's last best chance, arrived at this parlous state, the particular troubles engulfing the Scorpions (the popular name of the National Prosecuting Authority) offers a useful starting point.

The elite unit, modelled on America's FBI and operating in close co-operation with Britain's Serious Fraud Office (SFO), is one of the big successes of post-apartheid South Africa. An independent institution, separate from the slipshod South African Police Service, the Scorpions enjoy massive public support.

The unit's edict is to focus on people "who commit and profit from organised crime", and it has been hugely successful in carrying out its mandate. It has pursued and pinned down thousands of high-profile and complex networks of national and international corporate and public fraudsters.

Drug kingpins, smugglers and racketeers have felt the Scorpions' sting. A major gang that smuggle platinum, South Africa's biggest foreign exchange earner, to a corrupt English smelting plant has been bust as the result of a huge joint operation between the SFO and the Scorpions. But the Scorpions, whose top men were trained by Scotland Yard, have been too successful for their own good.

The ANC government never anticipated the crack crimebusters would take their constitutional independence seriously and investigate the top ranks of the former liberation movement itself.

The Scorpions have probed into, and successfully prosecuted, ANC MPs who falsified their parliamentary expenses. They secured a jail sentence for the ANC's chief whip, who took bribes from the German weapons manufacturer that sold frigates and submarines to the South African Defence Force. They sent to jail for 15 years a businessman who paid hundreds of bribes to then state vice-president Jacob Zuma in connection with the arms deal. Zuma was found by the judge to have a corrupt relationship with the businessman, and now the Scorpions have charged Zuma himself with fraud, corruption, tax evasion, racketeering and defeating the ends of justice. His trial will begin in August.

The Scorpions last month charged Jackie Selebi, the national police chief, a close friend of state president Thabo Mbeki, with corruption and defeating the ends of justice. Commissioner Selebi, who infamously called a white police sergeant a "f***ing chimpanzee" when she failed to recognise him during an unannounced visit to her Pretoria station, has stepped down pending his trial.

But now both wings of the venomously divided ANC - ANC-Mbeki and ANC-Zuma - want the Scorpions crushed, ideally by June this year. The message this will send to the outside world is that South Africa's rulers want only certain categories of crime investigated, while leaving government ministers and other politicians free to stuff their already heavily lined pockets.

No good reason for emasculating the Scorpions has been put forward. "That's because there isn't one," said Peter Bruce, editor of the influential Business Day, South Africa's equivalent of, and part-owned by, The Financial Times, in his weekly column.

"The Scorpions are being killed off because they investigate too much corruption that involves ANC leaders. It is as simple and ugly as that," he added.

The demise of the Scorpions can only exacerbate South Africa's out-of-control crime situation, ranked for its scale and violence only behind Colombia. Everyone has friends and acquaintances who have had guns held to their heads by gangsters, who also blow up ATM machines and hijack security trucks, sawing off their roofs to get at the cash.

In the past few days my next-door neighbour, John Matshikiza, a distinguished actor who trained at the Royal Shakespeare Company and is the son of the composer of the South African musical King Kong, had been violently attacked, and friends visiting from Zimbabwe had their car stolen outside my front window in broad daylight.

My friends flew home to Zimbabwe without their car and the tinned food supplies they had bought to help withstand their country's dire political and food crisis and 27,000% inflation. Matshikiza, a former member of the Glasgow Citizens Theatre company, was held up by three gunmen as he drove his car into his garage late at night. He gave them his car keys, wallet, cellphone and luxury watch and begged them not to harm his partner, who was inside the house.

As one gunman drove the car away, the other two beat Matshikiza unconscious with broken bottles, and now his head is so comprehensively stitched that it looks like a map of the London Underground.

These assaults were personal, but mild compared with much commonplace crime.

Last week, for example, 18-year-old Razelle Botha, who passed all her A-levels with marks of more than 90% and was about to train as a doctor, returned home with her father, Professor Willem Botha, founder of the geophysics department at the University of Pretoria, from buying pizzas for the family. Inside the house, armed gunmen confronted them. They shot Professor Botha in the leg and pumped bullets into Razelle.

One severed her spine. Now she is fighting for her life and will never walk again, and may never become a doctor. The gunmen stole a laptop computer and a camera.

Feeding the perfect storm are the two centres of ANC power in the country at the moment. On the one hand, there is the ANC in parliament, led by President Mbeki, who last Friday gave a state-of-the-nation address and apologised to the country for the power crisis.

Mbeki made only the briefest of mentions of the national Aids crisis, with more than six million people HIV-positive. He did not address the Scorpions crisis. The collapsing public hospital system, under his eccentric health minister Manto Tshabalala-Msimang, an alcoholic who recently jumped the public queue for a liver transplant, received no attention. And the name Jacob Zuma did not pass his lips.

Last December Mbeki and Zuma stood against each other for the leadership of the ANC at the party's five-yearly electoral congress. Mbeki, who cannot stand again as state president beyond next year's parliamentary and presidential elections, hoped to remain the power behind the throne of a new state president of his choosing.

Zuma, a Zulu populist with some 20 children by various wives and mistresses, hoped to prove that last year's rape case, and the trial he faces this year for corruption and other charges, were part of a plot by Mbeki to use state institutions to discredit him. Mbeki assumed that the notion of Zuma assuming next year the mantle worn by Nelson Mandela as South Africa's first black state president would be so appalling to delegates, a deeply sad and precipitous decline, that his own re-election as ANC leader was a shoo-in.

But Mbeki completely miscalculated his own unpopularity - his perceived arrogance, failure to solve health and crime problems, his failure to deliver to the poor - and he lost. Now Zuma insists that he is the leader of the country and ANC MPs in parliament must take its orders from him, while Mbeki soldiers on until next year as state president, ordering MPs to toe his line.

Greatly understated, it is a mess. Its scale will be dramatically illustrated if South Africa's hosting of the 2010 World Cup is withdrawn by Fifa, the world football body.

Already South African premier league football evening games are being played after midnight because power for floodlights cannot be guaranteed before that time. Justice Malala, one of the country's top newspaper columnists, has called on Fifa to end the agony quickly.

"I don't want South Africa to host the football World Cup because there is no culture of responsibility in this country," he wrote in Johannesburg's bestselling Sunday Times.

"The most outrageous behaviour and incompetence is glossed over. No-one is fired.. I have had enough of this nonsense, of keeping quiet and ignoring the fact that the train is about to run us over.

"It is increasingly clear that our leaders are incapable of making a success of it. Scrap the thing and give it to Australia, Germany or whoever will spare us the ignominy of watching things fall apart here - football tourists being held up and shot, the lights going out, while our politicians tell us everything is all right."

11:50pm Saturday 9th February 2008


http://www.thetimes.co.za/article.aspx?id=712892

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v511/BlueDiamond01/MugabeBday.jpg
............................................................................................

Hate to say it: but those who predicted the events in Rhosdesia and the current slide in ZA were shouted down by the bleeding hearts.

Where are the fcuking American and European politicians and their successors now who encouraged all this?

They're assiduously working to bring about the demise of Israel.

That pompous git Lord (!) Owen is doing us all a favour and keeping his mouth shut for a change.

With a 3-way vote my source suspects that Mugabwe will spilt the vote, influence waverers and be re-elected.

Hurrar:\

How is his mate Hootstraten? Have they let him out yet?

We used to go to Rhodesia to see the ruins of Great Zimbabwe
Alas, now we got to Zimbabwe to see the ruins of Rhodesia

Next the ruins of ZA.

Guess it's a change to the cops renting out their weapons to crims to commit crime. This time they got involved themselves....:rolleyes:

Radio 702 Website http://www.702.co.za/news/news.asp#82184

Suspects on the run after attacking Pakistani nationals 27/02/2008 07:11:51

Pretoria police are still hunting for three armed robbers who held up a group of Pakistani nationals on Monday night.

At least two police officers were allegedly part of the gang.

Investigators are questioning the police sergeant and his alleged accomplice as they try to track down the three armed robbers who are still on the run.

Detectives are still trying to establish whether the second man in custody is also a cop. Police arrived at the house while the robbery was still in progress.

One of the alleged robbers fled in an unmarked police vehicle. When he was pursued he fired several shots at officers before crashing into an oncoming car.

It’s believed he shot himself after the accident. The two men currently behind bars were arrested at the house while the other three fled the scene.

The cracks are showing. SA looks like becoming another Zim at this rate...:(

The Mail & Guardian applauds the pressure the new African National Congress (ANC) leadership is putting on President Thabo Mbeki to come clean on his role in the arms deal. It is a welcome sign of the new, more open political climate in South Africa that he is being challenged on a crucial matter no ANC member would previously have dared raise with him.

The rumours that have persistently swirled around Mbeki's meeting with arms bidders, together with allegations that he himself received "commissions" or channelled money to his party, are extremely damaging to the Office of the Presidency and need to be confronted.

Equally suspicious were his determined moves to squash any independent investigation into the arms deal, which entailed sabotaging a parliamentary probe, subverting the neutrality of parliamentary speaker Frene Ginwala, destroying the political career of ANC MP Andrew Feinstein and setting up a sweetheart inquiry to give the arms deal a clean bill of health.

The hard fact is that the government no longer controls the flow of information on the arms procurement: the German and British authorities are conducting their own investigations, which look certain to turn up some embarrassing truths. And as we report today, the Scorpions, undaunted by moves to disband them, are reopening inquiries stalled by former prosecutions boss Bulelani Ngcuka, Mbeki's close ally. Again, we welcome this, but believe the unit should open up the entire can of worms, including the German warships contract where Mbeki's role is under particular scrutiny.

In this context, the president would be well advised to take South Africans into his confidence -- but by the same token, so should Jacob Zuma. What worries us is that the current ANC moves to clear the air are aimed exclusively at Mbeki, and give every appearance of being another ploy in the political war between the party's Mbeki and Zuma factions. Indeed, the apparent strategy is to force the president to declare an amnesty on all crooked arms transactions, to get Zuma off the hook.

If Mbeki is concerned about his legacy, declaring a general amnesty at this point would be about the worst thing he could do. It would tell the country and the world that to protect himself, he is willing to sweep corruption on a massive scale under the carpet. It would tend to confirm suspicions of his own guilt, and shed retrospective light on his ruthless stage-management of inquiries into the arms deal. It would reinforce perceptions that our leaders are incorrigibly slippery and self-serving. And it would mean that the South African public will never know the facts.

Those turning up the heat on him should also be aware of the partisan impression they are creating. The arms deal has been described as the "poison well" of South African politics, and until it is thoroughly purged, it will continue to destabilise our system of government. It is not just Mbeki and Zuma's business. The ANC entire leadership, which was part of the decision-making on the deal, has a collective responsibility to ensure that the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth is brought into the open.

From farce to tragedy
When the ANC took control of the Western Cape in 2004, the new Premier, Ebrahim Rasool, promised an end to the farcical politics of the province. The beleaguered voters who put him there hoped he was right.

After a decade of unstable coalitions, party funding scandals, judicial commissions and urban terror campaigns, they wanted stable governments which delivered on their election promises.

Four years later, the farce is still in full swing.

Rasool this week reinstituted the Erasmus commission of inquiry into allegations of illegal spying and improper procurement procedures by the Democratic Alliance-led (DA) coalition that runs the city.

He has belatedly added to its remit allegations that Badih Chabaan, a councillor who flaunts his underworld connections, offered bribes to councillors of other parties to cross the floor in an effort to unseat Cape Town mayor Helen Zille.

The commission is seen by the DA as a hopelessly biased political instrument to undermine its control of the city, while the ANC insists it will expose the DA's hypocrisy in blurring the interests of party and state.

It is a thoroughly nasty battle, and one that contains serious threats for both parties. For the DA, the most optimistic scenario is that serious weaknesses in its provincial leadership will be exposed just as it prepares for the 2009 elections, but the fallout could be much worse.

The ANC's apparent willingness to treat with Chabaan and to use the power of the South African Police Service and the judiciary against its main political rival send disturbing signals about its attitude to multiparty democracy.

Amid all the clowning by Chabaan, and the legal jousting between Zille and Rasool, there is one deeply depressing conclusion: the Western Cape's sprawling criminal underworld is deeply enmeshed in the region's politics and has contaminated every corner of the state. The farce to which Rasool promised an end is rapidly degenerating into tragedy.

I have a bottle of bubbly on ice waiting for the day that Mugabe dies!.

Interestingly enough spelt backwards it is pronounced as

EE BY GUM:confused:!

The election rigging is taking on new dimensions...

Tsvangirai's SA pilot arrested
25/03/2008 14:53 - (SA)

Johannesburg - A Johannesburg pilot arrested in Zimbabwe shortly before he was due to transport presidential hopeful Morgan Tsvangirai on his campaign trail was still in police custody in Harare on Tuesday afternoon, his employer said.

"He is at Harare central police station where he is being detained," said Wessel van den Bergh, chief executive officer of ATS aviation services.

The pilot, British citizen Brent Smythe, was due to ferry Tsvangirai to various constituencies in Zimbabwe over the next two days and was expecting to take off from an airfield north west of the city at 07:00 on Tuesday, Van den Bergh said.

He sent me an SMS just after 07:00 saying 'please help, the police have arrested me'," Van den Bergh said.

The helicopter "worth millions" was also impounded and Van den Bergh was still trying to establish why Smythe was arrested because he believed all the paperwork was in order.

He received a later SMS from Smythe saying he was at the Harare police station and the police had a notice to detain him.

Van den Bergh said the British Embassy and the South African Department of Foreign Affairs were assisting, and he was receiving information from an aide from the opposition Movement for Democratic Change, which Tsvangirai is hoping will be voted into power in Saturday's election.

Smythe's family were informed of the situation and the company had been informed that he was unharmed.

A quote from my SA mate that I work with.

"They need to hit oil in Zimbabwe ASAP so that the US can go in their and spread some 'peace keeping'"

He was also talking how his friends are looking to leave SA (one family touched down in the Uk on Friday) and are emmigrating to Aus and the UK.

It's tragic that a country that supposedly had a bright future a while back seems to be going down the same corrupt and inept route that Zimbabwe has gone.

Let's hope that Bono etc can do a pop concert to raise people awareness of the corrupt and dangerous govt that is in power over there....oh sorry of course they can't, the govt is'nt white.

SA next....:(


Zim meltdown: SA keeps counsel

Florence Panoussian | Johannesburg, South Africa

26 March 2008 07:09

South Africa has steadfastly refused to join in the chorus of criticism of Zimbabwe's President Robert Mugabe despite paying an ever higher price for the crisis across its northern border.

As Zimbabwe goes to the polls this weekend, analysts believe South African President Thabo Mbeki may feel little enthusiasm towards Mugabe but will never embarrass his fellow leader nor want him replaced by the opposition Movement for Democratic Change (MDC).

According to Olmo Von Meijenfeldt of the Institute for Democracy in South Africa in Pretoria, Mbeki's desire to carve out a niche as an advocate for the whole of Africa means he will never denigrate Mugabe.

"The most important for Thabo Mbeki and the South African government has been and is the African agenda and the African Union network," he said.

"The people of Zimbabwe have been sacrificed for the larger good of the African agenda."

With inflation running at over 100 000% and unemployment at more than 80%, up to a third of Zimbabwe's 12-million population has fled to greener pastures -- mostly to South Africa.

Mbeki has acknowledged the economic meltdown has damaged the region as a whole but he has still refused to publicly criticise Mugabe, maintaining instead a policy of "quiet diplomacy".

MDC leader Morgan Tsvangirai has said Mbeki needs to show "a little courage" in dealing with the Zimbabwean president and called the South African leader's attempts to mediate between the Zimbabwean ruling party and opposition a flop.

Chris Maroleng, a Zimbabwe specialist at the Pretoria-based Institute for Security Studies, said South Africa is sceptical that speaking out about either the economic crisis or Mugabe's crackdowns on opponents would help.

South Africa "has argued that public criticism of President Mugabe has not created any real change, but in fact encouraged him to become more intransigent," said Maroleng.

Mugabe, who has ruled the ex-British colony since 1980, has been ostracised by the West after allegedly rigging his 2002 re-election and for assaults by his security service on opposition leaders such as Tsvangirai.

Through much of Africa, however, Mugabe is still revered for his role in bringing an end to the former whites-only regime of Ian Smith as head of the Zanu (Zimbabwe African National Union) guerrilla movement.

Zanu (later renamed Zanu-Patriotic Front after a merger) has come to regard itself as the natural party of government in much the same way as the African National Congress (ANC) in Pretoria.

Moeletsi Mbeki of the South African Institute for International Affairs in Johannesburg says the common backgrounds explain why South Africa has little appetite for a change at State House in Harare.

"Southern Africa is ruled by nationalist parties created by the black elite who was fighting colonialism," said Mbeki, the South African leader's brother.

"The MDC is a new-age party created from the bottom, so you are having a clash of civilisations between the nationalist parties created by the black elite, which tells the people what to do, and the MDC new-style party created by the people which wants the elite to be accountable."

Tsvangirai played no part in the war of liberation, instead making a name for himself as a union leader in the 1990s by leading mass protests.

Mbeki said none of the regimes which make up the Southern African Development Community (SADC) felt comfortable with such shows of people power.

"The SADC governments are not very interested in MDC winning the election because they see MDC-style parties as a threat to them."

As well as a challenge from Tsvangirai, Mugabe is also being taken on by his former finance minister Simba Makoni, who broke ranks with Zanu-PF last month.

Von Meijenfeldt said Makoni might be more acceptable to Pretoria but gave him little chance of victory.

"He is an acceptable candidate for South Africa, for the West, [but] it's not very likely Makoni will win. He came into the race very late." - AFP

More on the pilot arrested by Mugabe's thugs. Seems they're really scratching the bottom of the barrel to find something with which to charge him...:rolleyes:

Latest from News 24

Zim charges pilot with fraud
2008-3-26 16:08

Johannesburg - Zimbabwe police have pressed fraud charges related to a hotel booking against the Johannesburg pilot arrested while flying Movement for Democratic Change leader Morgan Tsvangirai to election rallies, the party said on Wednesday.
Zimbabwe's police were not able to confirm his arrest or provide reasons, but MDC treasurer general Roy Bennett said that according to the party's lawyers in Harare, when he arrived at the hotel, he occupied the room that somebody else had booked for him and so the police charged him with fraud.

"They charged him under ridiculous charges, and are holding him, because somebody else booked him into the hotel under another name because he was not there," said Bennett.

Brent Smyth was detained on Tuesday with MDC official Jameson Timba, another pilot helping him refuel and an airport employee. They were waiting to fly Tsvangirai to rallies in remote areas to lobby voters for his presidential bid ahead of Saturday's election.

Smyth had had a run-in with authorities on Saturday. They said his flight plan had not been filed on time, cancelling Tsvangirai's rally appearances in key rural areas when his helicopter was grounded, said Bennett.

Timba, the other pilot and the airport employee were released later on Tuesday.

South African embassy officials were granted consular access on Wednesday to Smyth and would attempt to establish the circumstances of his detention.

"We have through our embassy in Harare requested consular access to the pilot, which has now been granted by Zimbabwean authorities," spokesperson Ronnie Mamoepa said.

Mamoepa said they were in contact with Smyth's employer - ATS aviation services - and would offer full consular assistance to Smyth.

Smyth's fiancee Drieksie Janse van Rensburg said his clearance permit to be in the country expired at midnight on Tuesday while he was in custody.

Is SA next??? Does the rest of the world care?? No. The late Ian Smith was recently remembered only for saying that he still thought the white minority government did better for Zimbabwe/Rhodesia than the present leadership. And in SA, the blacks are still giving whites the "opportunity to apologize" for "apartheid", despite what is happening there at the moment. This was email response following the newspaper "call for apology":

Subject: We Apologise To the Previously Disadvantaged

We are sorry that our ancestors were intelligent, advanced and daring
enough to explore the wild oceans to discover new countries and develop
them.

We are sorry that those who came before us took you out of the bush and
taught you that there was more to life than beating drums, killing each
other and chasing animals with sticks and stones.

We are sorry that they planned, funded and developed roads, towns,
mines, factories, airports and harbours, all of which you now claim to
be your long deprived inheritance giving you every right to change and
rename these at your discretion.

We are sorry that our parents taught us the value of small but strong
families, to not breed like rabbits and end up as underfed, diseased,
illiterate shack dwellers living in poverty.

We are sorry that when the evil apartheid government provided you with
schools, you decided they'd look better without windows or in piles of
ashes.

We happily gave up those bad days of getting spanked in our all white
schools for doing something wrong and much prefer these days of freedom
where problems can be resolved with knives and guns.

We are sorry that it is hard to shake off the bitterness of the past
when you keep on raping, torturing and killing our friends and family
members, and then hide behind the fence of "human rights" with smiles
on
your faces.

We are sorry that we do not trust the government. We have no reason to
be so suspicious because none of these poor hard working intellectuals
have ever been involved in any form of corruption or "irregularities".

We are sorry that we do not trust the police force and, even though they
have openly admitted that they have lost the war against crime and
criminals, we should not be negative and just ignore their corruption
and carry on hoping for the best.

We are sorry that it is more important to you to have players of colour
in our national teams than winning games and promoting patriotism. We
know that sponsorship doesn't depend on a team's success.

We are sorry that our border posts have been flung open and now left you
competing for jobs against illegal immigrants from our beautiful
neighbouring countries. All of them countries that have grown into
economic powerhouses after kicking out the "settlers".

We are sorry that we don't believe in witchcraft, beetroot and garlic
cures,urinating on street corners, virginity testing, slaughtering of
bulls in our back yards, trading women for cattle and other barbaric
practices. Maybe we just grew up differently.

We are sorry that your medical care, water supplies, roads, railway and
electricity supplies are going down the toilet because skilled people
who could have planned for and resolved these issues had to be shown
away because they were of the wrong ethnic background and now have to
work in foreign countries where their skills are more needed.

We are so sorry that we'd like this country to fulfil its potential so
we can once again be proud South Africans.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Three wrongs will only make it worse. We need to quit stabbing each other in the back and hold our leadership accountable if things are to improve.

I reckon that Africa should just give up. Y'all were far better off when you were being kicked around by the British, and the French, and even the bloody Belgiums.

You American Africans thought you could make it happen - with Liberia. Unfortunately, Liberia is now just another typical African sh*thole - and the American Africans appear to have grown tired of the Liberian project. They seem to prefer basketball.

What I would like to know is whether it is possible for any African to be elected as head-of-state without him thinking that he then acquires the divine right to rip off his own people? It appears that various strange and primative tribal beliefs cannot be shaken off, such that the elected head-of-state thinks he can gorge himself on the country's treasury (and have any lady that tickles his fancy).

Mandela aside, I can't think of any sub-Saharan African leader who hasn't been anything more than a two-bit f*cking crook.

So y'all should invite them Belgiums back.

The spiral continues. Electricity supplier management getting huge bonuses despite not being able to produce the goods, leading to a slump in the economy and closure of businesses with resulting unemployment. Seems they don't regard generating and distributing electricity as their core business....:rolleyes:

Eskom crisis: Bonuses to blame?2008-3-26 21:14

Cape Town - A group of forensic accountants in Forensies.com have analysed what Eskom says in its annual reports about the utility's management bonuses, and have concluded that the supply of electricity is not one of the so-called "gate-keepers" that would prevent the bonuses being paid out.
Their report says that the bonus system could be the main contributing factor to the electricity crisis.

The accountants team points out that the executive management of Eskom performed to such an extent over the past three years that long term performance bonuses of R10.3m will be paid to them next Monday March 31.

Certain gatekeeper conditions give the board the discretion to review the bonuses, the team said. "These gatekeeper conditions includes safety factors, operating losses, a qualified audit report and contravention of the Public Finance Management Act.

"Generation and distribution of electricity is however not regarded as important enough to qualify as a gatekeeper condition and therefore there will most likely not be a reconsideration of the bonuses because of the current electricity crisis," their report says.

After analysing the criteria that are used for the bonus payout, the accountants say: "It appears that Eskom chose to promote the narrow political ideologies of its shareholder, like employment equity (AA) and black economical empowerment, instead of concentrating on generation of electricity.

"This caused immeasurable damage to the economy of South Africa and is ironically a major setback for achievement of the wider economical and social upliftment goals of South Africa. The performance measurement criteria for the Eskom top managers might just be the main contributing factor to the electricity crisis."

ampan

If you thought a little harder you might have come up with Sir Seretse Khama late president of Botswana.

I wouldn't wish the Belgians onto my worst enemy either.

:E Mugabe - the joker Malcolm helped install. What a deads**t! Both of them. :yuk:

Do we need to start a new thread? "Is this the end for South Africa"?

Me? I left there in 1991, after having lived there from age 6. I can sum up my 17-year stay as "beautiful country, shame about the people". :uhoh:

I wonder if some ppruners who have spent extensive time in Africa could comment on this (http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/articles/08/africaatragiccontinent.htm). :uhoh:

I worked extensivley in Africa in the mid to late nineties, I am glad I had the opportunty to visit Vic falls, game parks in Botswana,Zambia and Tanzania. Wouldn't dream of going there now. SA was incredibly posiitive then and viewed the changes in Zim as worrying.

I can remember tension growing between Nigerian Crooks flooding into SA occupying the CBD with the locals.

It was interesting on a local Jo.Berg phone radio station a guy was complaing the BLACK-BLACKS where turning JoBerg into a war zone.
he was a black south African that viewed Mid-Africans as trouble and easily indentified by the jet black skin rather than the SA lighter shade!!

In Durban the tension was still Black against Asian as Asians tended to own most of the small business and were the biggest employer.

The biggest export from Nigeria is still crime! and here's the rub.....

Martin Luther King once said that "Africa will never solve it's problems unitill it becomes the United States of Africa, one capital, with one elected federal body; but that will never happen due to stoneage tribal differences, corruption and lack of purpose"

They used to say the SA was surround by three seas. To the East the Pacific Sea, to the west the Atlanic Sea and to the North a Sea of MESS!!

I wonder if some ppruners who have spent extensive time in Africa could comment on this (http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/articles/08/africaatragiccontinent.htm). :uhoh:
I left South Africa before Apartheid did, so I'm not best placed to comment on the way things are now. I don't see anything new in that article: just the standard plea for African rulers to clean up their act, which is unlikely. Well, maybe once Mugabe kicks the bucket.

There are certain specifics I know a little about, such as the running-down of industries such as Eskom. A good friend of mine is an English engineer who was there for longer than I was, but eventually left. He rose through the ranks at a major steel company, from apprentice to a senior Engineering position, and dealt with a lot of "affirmative action" issues, narrowly escaping himself, with management realizing they needed him.

Now he's in Houston, with a company who provides oil-powered generators for backup mains supply. He's slightly concerned about the power situation in ZA, especially with the World Cup in 2010. Not concern for the business - his company stands to make money, and already has an office there - but concern over going back there. He still speaks Afrikaans, you see, and he's at risk of being asked to go back for extended periods, or permanently. :eek:

Zim not the only country in the region with police thugs to do the govt's bidding. Let's hope the elections go well without violent incidents today.

Media Statement

Chris Hattingh - Provincial Leader – DA North West.


The DA in the North West today rejoices with the people of Pomfret in
celebrating a victory in the Supreme Court against the State after years of
intimidation and victimisation, followed by the recent weeks of intensified
pressure against the community and the forceful relocation of some
inhabitants to Mafikeng.

The recent weeks also were also characterised by state vandalism where
habitable houses and water infrastructure in Pomfret were demolished,
damaged and destroyed. Former 32Bn soldiers were intimidated, their war
medals "confiscated" (stolen?) and their SADF service certificates taken
from them. Personal items that were linked to their former status as
soldiers were also taken.

The court order brings the recent evictions and demolitions, which coincided
with the ANC’s “celebrations of the battle of Cuito Cuanavale”, to an end
pending further court action. Indications are that a considerable SAPS force
is ready at the nearby Bray to continue in their support of the State’s
vandalism operations.

Judged by the highly emotional ANC response on a motion about the people of
Pomfret in the North West Provincial Legislature on Tuesday 18th March 2008,
it is clear that the role that 32Bn played in the Angolan War remains an
unforgiveable issue – even if only a small number of ex-combatants still
reside in Pomfret.

The DA will continue to support the Portuguese speeking South African
citizens who have been denied their rights for such a long time.

Chris Hattingh

Barit1: The article is pretty accurate but getting any politician to take responsibility and be held accountable is highly unlikely, as you know...:(

I spent a long time in Nigeria but I now work in Algeria. The two places are not that far apart on the map but they might as well be on different planets in many ways.

The Algerians just give me THE LOOK when I tell them about some of the every-day aspects of life in Greater Lagos. Their gaze is directed northwards, towards southern Europe, so that they seem to have very little interest in sub-Saharan Africa. Well, when we see what goes on there, I guess it just seems like too damned much trouble for whatever they might get out of it.

I don't know; it just seems as if people in Africa are going to be left to fight it out amongst themselves. Okay, if you say the magic words "Al Quaeda" then someone pays a bit of attention, but otherwise? A clapped-out Antonov crashes into a market and kills 150 people and the world just yawns and turns the page. They put up a file photo of Mugabe and tell us he's going to win/already won this so-called election down there somewhere or other. Sounds about right, I guess...

The Chinese kill some demonstrators in Tibet and the world is agog. Meanwhile, how many have died in Zimbabwe?

...Meanwhile, how many have died in Zimbabwe?

Not nearly as many as have died in SA.:(

Just watching the Zim Ambassador on BBC spouting lies from every orifice, one is a tad puzzled, why do we allow that ape to have a embassy in this country?
:confused:

why do we allow that ape


Agree ...but poor choice of words I think.

True, looking at me post again I can see that it could be construed as insulting to Apes who on the whole are rather noble honest creatures.

Martin Luther King once said that "Africa will never solve it's problems unitill it becomes the United States of Africa, one capital, with one elected federal body; but that will never happen due to stoneage tribal differences, corruption and lack of purpose"



There are an incredible amount of positive Black role models in the world from Actors like Samuel L Jackson, Oprah, Politicians from Colin Powell, Condeleeza Rice to Barack Obama. Singers from the Jazz greats to Stevie Wonder most of Motown etc. Designers like Oswald Boetang and numerous sports and athletic stars.

Now I know they are a few dubious negatives as well. All Gangster Crap music, 70% of inamtes in US correction facilities, Eddie Murphy and Whoopie Goldberg to name but a few but most positive role models all seem to be living outside of Africa. But apart from Nelson Mandella if they stay in Africa they do not seem to evolve beyond , superstitous, tribal criminals.

Can't think of one, positive person.

Liberia has already been mentioned as a vision/dream that just failed due to the retarded people running the country which is endemic of all of sub-sahara Africa.

WHY?

There are lots of good people in Africa. Would you judge the U.S.A. by ITS politicians? I would hope not! It is just that most countries there do seem to have rather disastrous rulers and a thin layer of scum at the top. I just don't have time to go into why I think that is so, but your average Nigerian, say, is someone I have a lot of time for. The problems are with the elite, I have found.

I tend to agree chuks, with a nod to Burke (http://www.quotedb.com/quotes/29):

There are lots of good people in Africa. Would you judge the U.S.A. by ITS politicians? I would hope not! It is just that most countries there do seem to have rather disastrous rulers and a thin layer of scum at the top. I just don't have time to go into why I think that is so, but your average Nigerian, say, is someone I have a lot of time for. The problems are with the elite, I have found.


Didn't see Republicans out on the streets at the last election chopping the hands of Democrats and vice versa, just because someone did not like the result.

Look at Kenya this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!
nearly 1 million dead!!!!!!!!!!!!! get real!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rape
Murder
Looting

It's like giving control to the kids at a High School!!!!!!! They just don't have the inteligence to look after themselves.

Get your head out of your backside you are a someone obviously in denial.

Africa is F*CKED

Well, there is hope: it appears that Mr. Mugabe has the power to raise the dead (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article3646402.ece). :}

What Saddam Hussein did was not even on the same ball park as what has been going on in Africa. Why no intervention there??Mmmmm:confused:

When will the world stop pretending there is actually hope for Africa's people? After all these ages of liberation and independence? It is futile. Gazillions of resources are poured into this bottomless quagmire of pathetic, inept, corruption-tolerating, sympathy-seeking, guilt-inspiring parasitic beggars. Putting the blame on those who brought EVERYTHING to Africa, be it in the form of colonists or whatever, while incessantly tolerating leaders who suck the last drop of blood from them, is long a stale argument. If the effects of colonization were removed, indiginous Africans will be left standing with nothing more than the odd half-rotten skin loincloth, and perhaps a bow and some arrows in the more advanced subgroups. Yet, it seems, that is what they want, looking at the way the infrastructure is maintained. The only ones who still go forward - and being progressively shackled by idiotic legislation as they try to do so - are the descendants of European, Indian and Oriental migrants. The best thing that could happen is for Africa to be re-colonized. Perhaps China sees that gap as we speak...

Razorback ....... What he said!!:ok:

Always liked the late William F Buckley's comment:

"Africa will be ready for self-government when they stop eating each other". True, if take a bit of license with the word "eating", to mean, killing, raping and displacing from home.

GF

When will the world stop pretending there is actually hope for Africa's people? After all these ages of liberation and independence? It is futile. Gazillions of resources are poured into this bottomless quagmire of pathetic, inept, corruption-tolerating, sympathy-seeking, guilt-inspiring parasitic beggars. Putting the blame on those who brought EVERYTHING to Africa, be it in the form of colonists or whatever, while incessantly tolerating leaders who suck the last drop of blood from them, is long a stale argument. If the effects of colonization were removed, indiginous Africans will be left standing with nothing more than the odd half-rotten skin loincloth, and perhaps a bow and some arrows in the more advanced subgroups. Yet, it seems, that is what they want, looking at the way the infrastructure is maintained. The only ones who still go forward - and being progressively shackled by idiotic legislation as they try to do so - are the descendants of European, Indian and Oriental migrants. The best thing that could happen is for Africa to be re-colonized. Perhaps China sees that gap as we speak...

Tough stuff!

Maybe there's a need for some more thorough 'nurturing' here. Admittedly, the ground rules for relations between nations do not readily admit to deep-level interference in the politics of other places..... but here's a case where it might help.

When one's parents grow old and ditzy, does one simply consign them to the rough hands of destiny? No! One struggles to lead them along on a better path, to honour and to protect them as our progenitors, however we may presently disagree with their thoughts and styles. This is not difficult - mostly they are old, confused, and weak in economics and in government. A heavy feather can change the course of many problems there.

The challenge is to help them without subverting those old thoughts that have made Civilisation what it is today.

A few bullets and a lot of love - is my suggestion.

'Tis true I fear, Africa is no place for human beings. I weep for my Rhodesian and South African kin, and for the dream which might have been, and which looked like it was, for a while. But the experiment has failed, no thanks to the pinkos and the apologists and hypocrites in the West who sold them out, but I think that in the end it would have failed anyway.

I hope that as many of them as possible will come and live in my country instead, because they are the finest people in the world, and we need as many of them as we can get.

GF

Stopped off at a small village in Eastern DRC and saw human limbs hung in the smokehouse. Couple of UN observers (can't call the poor unarmed blokes peacekeepers:() were killed and eaten around the same time.

MDC claims early Zim lead

30/03/2008 07:44 - (SA)

Harare - The main opposition Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) on Sunday claimed an early lead ahead of the official announcement of results from the general election where veteran leader Robert Mugabe is fighting for an extended rule.

"This far, short of a miracle, we have won this election beyond any reasonable doubt. We have won this election," MDC Secretary General Tendai Biti told a news conference early Sunday.

Biti, who gave partial unofficial results based on returns posted at polling stations where counting had been completed, said "in our view this trend is irreversible."

The electoral body said it would start announcing early partial returns sometime on Sunday.

Zimbabwe went to the polls on Saturday to pick a president, lawmakers and municipality councillors.

Mugabe, who has ruled the former British colony uninterrupted since independence in 1980, is up against former finance minister Simba Makoni and Morgan Tsvangirai, leader of the MDC.

On Saturday Mugabe said he would accept results even if he is defeated.

"A tsunami is breathing down our country," said Biti.

Biti warned that if the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission announced different results from those posted outside polling centres, the MDC would not accept them.

"That will clearly be dishonesty and we will not accept that. We will not accept results of a stolen election," he said.

Scores of anti-riot police patrolled the streets of the capital, according to various witnesses.

The MDC has already said the vote has not been free and fair, accusing Mugabe of employing a myriad of tactics to try to rig the election.

Well said Twotter

If - (big 'if', I know) - the MDC manage to roll Bob, and then - (even bigger 'if') - he and his cohorts allow the result to stand, I have a very sad prediction to make.

(1) The West will pour aid into Zim.
(2) Much if not most of it will go the way of most aid to Africa - into the Swiss bank accounts of businessmen, politicians and bureaucrats (please note my stress) of every colour of the rainbow.
(3) Five years into the new government, either
(a) anarchy will still reign, or
(b) in their efforts to put a stop to said anarchy, the new government will be perceived to be not a hell of lot different to the one they replaced.

I really hope with all my heart that I am wrong, but if I was a betting man, I think I'd find few with any knowledge of Africa who'd take my bet.

What Saddam Hussein did was not even on the same ball park as what has been going on in Africa. Why no intervention there??Mmmmm:confused:
Well, we know why the US "intervened" in Iraq: because it appeared to serve their interests. If you want US intervention in e.g. Zimbabwe... where's their interest? About all they have is coal, some natural gas, and they're landlocked.

Another option would be to ask for help, to recognise that they're in the dung, and can't do everything themselves. That's generally not going to happen, it would require African leaders to "lose face".

The situation is Zimbabwe is so dire, however, that I don't think it impossible that Mugabe's successor asks for help. We could see one or more Western countries put together an emergency aid package - if it's safe to do so. Another possibility is that the whole country is annexed by one or more of its neighbours - I just wonder if anyone would want it. :uhoh:

C'mon, Joe, tell us what you really think! Don't mince words.

There's nothing lacking in intelligence in Nigeria, it is just that the way things are, most of it is misdirected.

I haven't bothered to flame anyone for a while but if you keep telling me what to do with my head I shall start with you.

I think I know what I am writing about but please tell your waiting public here how many years direct experience of Africa you have. Also, it is now 1225 Zulu: do you know where your head is?

Love and kisses,

chuks

Hmmmm.......with a name like CottonEyeJoe, you wouldn't be a "good ole boy" by any chance. Might explain your last post :hmm:

According to Wikipedia, my over-all source of knowledge these days, someone who is "cotton-eyed" might be so due to syphilis. Or it could be down to drinking cheap moonshine.

That sounds about right to me, syphilis, a good old American disease, not one of those namby-pamby Yurpeen or even, God forbid, African ones. It came back with Columbus, I believe, in a swap for the Norway Rat.

Of course, this being Jet Blast, the fellow might not even be ill at all but simply depraved. We shall probably never learn the real story behind the handle.

Syphilis? Which segues the conversation right back to Mugabe...:E

Making excuses again! Can't you just leave it at Bob is a bad, bad boy? Why you got to complicate things unnecessarily?

How did it start? You say pathology, I say maybe he just got ticked off trying to get results shaving that groovy upper lip, flew off the handle and went the wholesale Hitlah route.

Well, there was that other one of sainted memory but he was a flash in the pan compared to Bob. No, not the original Hitler, the freedom fighter! But he didn't last anything like 28 years, did he?

What are these raving loon dictators on, anyway, monkey glands? First Castro and now Mugabe: I gotta get me some of whatever that is. Screw the side-effects, I'm going for the longevity!

I was just watching the B.B.C. News of the World. They had some guy saying that Bob and Co. might lose this election, although I really do not see how.

Actually, what I really wanted to know is how Valentino Rossi is getting on with his new Bridgestone tires but they didn't bother telling anything about that. Someone needs to get their priorities sorted out right sharpish in my opinion!

"how Valentino Rossi is getting on"

Came 2nd.

Already sounding dodgy. No shortage of those willing to subvert the truth to keep Mad Bob in power. Those who should be accountable for the crap in their own countries but refuse to take that responsibility are the main backers of the Zim regime, it appears. These are the people who should be forced to suffer what they support, not your average bloke. Unfortunately, in many cases, your average bloke is the poor bugger who fell for the lies and put them there in the first place....:(

Results delayed 'to fix outcome'

30/03/2008 22:24 - (SA)

Harare - Zimbabwe's opposition Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) accused authorities on Sunday of deliberately sitting on general election results to fix the outcome in favour of President Robert Mugabe.

"Mugabe has lost this election and they have gone back to the drawing board to try and cook up a result in favour of Robert Mugabe but we will never accept that," MDC general-secretary Tendai Biti told AFP.

"The only reasonable explanation for this delay is that they are cooking up figures but we will not accept those figures."

The Zimbabwe Electoral Commission has yet to release any results from Saturday's joint parliamentary and presidential elections more than 27 hours after polls closed.

30/03/2008 21:37 HARARE, March 30 (AFP)

Zimbabwe election 'credible': SADC

Zimbabwe's general election was a peaceful and credible expression of the will of the people, a team of observers from the Southern African Development Community (SADC) said in a report Sunday.

Angolan Sports Minister Jose Marcos Barrica, the head of the mission from the 14-nation regional bloc, said that observers had some concerns about access to the state media, voter education and comments by security chiefs.

"Notwithstanding the concerns highlighted, the elections have been a peaceful and credible expression of the will of the people of Zimbabwe," he told journalists in Harare, reading from the report.

While there have been no figures so far on turnout levels, the Angolan minister said that the mission had been impressed by the number of people who had voted as well as the atmosphere.

"We saw a much better turnout than we ever imagined," he said.

"People were predicting that there would be violence on polling day, that there would be bloodshed and that no-one would go to the polls but I must say that we all witnessed people going peacefully to vote. There was no violence."

In the run-up to the poll, the head of the armed forces said he would not take orders from Western "puppets," a clear reference to main opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai and former finance minister Simba Makoni. Both are running against veteran President Robert Mugabe.

The head of the prison service also instructed his staff to vote for Mugabe.

While criticising the statements, SADC said they were merely the views of individuals.

"Those statements were individual statements, they were not institutional, they were not made in the name of the government."

The SADC assessment was swiftly rejected by Tsvangirai's Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) party which criticised Barrica for making his announcement before results had been announced.

"It's clear ZEC (the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission) and the regime are in bed with the head of the SADC mission who has declared that the election was free, peaceful and reflected the will of the people of Zimbabwe even before the results are out," MDC secretary-general Tendai Biti told AFP.

Two members of the South Africa's Democratic Alliance (DA) opposition party also refused to put their names to the SADC mission statement.

"The DA has objected to this report on the basis that it pays lip service to very material defects in the carrying out of the poll and because it ignores the fundamentally undemocratic environment that has been created in Zimbabwe over the last eight years," said DA lawmaker Dianne Kohler Barnard.



©2008 AFP

ZIMBABWE
MDC takes early lead in Zim results
Godfrey Marawanyika
Mon, 31 Mar 2008

Zimbabwe's opposition took an early lead in the country's elections on Monday as authorities finally released the first batch of results after being accused of trying to help Robert Mugabe cling to power.

The Movement for Democratic Change party, led by Mugabe's old rival Morgan Tsvangirai, won four out of the first six parliamentary seats to be announced nearly 36 hours after the close of polls on Saturday. The other two were won by Mugabe's ruling Zanu-PF party.

The MDC won the first seat to be declared, the newly-formed constituency of Chegutu West, around 100 kilometres west of the capital Harare, commission spokesperson Utoile Silaigwana told reporters in Harare.

A total of 210 parliamentary seats are due to be declared as well as the result of the simultaneous presidential election in the troubled southern African country, which has the world's highest rate of inflation.

Vote-rigging fears

The MDC had on Sunday accused the commission of deliberately sitting on the results in a bid to fix the election in favour of Mugabe who has ruled since independence from Britain in 1980.

"Mugabe has lost this election and they have gone back to the drawing board to try and cook up a result in favour of Robert Mugabe but we will never accept that," MDC general-secretary Tendai Biti told AFP.

Despite warnings from Mugabe's camp that pre-emptive declarations were tantamount to a coup, the MDC is adamant Tsvangirai has won and it has secured nearly all parliamentary seats in the two main cities of Harare and Bulawayo.

While the election was given a generally clean bill of health from a regional observer mission, a network of domestic organisations which had observer status on election day also raised fears the result was being fixed.

After determining the 2002 election was rigged, no representatives from European Union countries nor the United States have been allowed to oversee the ballot.

African countries have largely refrained from speaking out against a man who has ruled his country since independence from Britain in 1980.

A peaceful vote so far…

In its report on the election, a team from the 14-nation Southern African Development Community (Sadc) noted a number of concerns but ultimately declared the vote was a "peaceful and credible expression of the will of the people."

Tsvangirai claimed on Saturday his party had uncovered evidence of widespread vote-rigging, including the names of a million "ghost" voters.

As well as Tsvangirai, Mugabe is up against former finance minister Simba Makoni, who is expected to trail in third.

The elections come as Zimbabwe grapples with an inflation rate of over 100 000 percent and widespread shortages of even basic foodstuffs such as bread and cooking oil.

The 84-year-old Mugabe, Africa's oldest leader, has blamed the economic woes on the European Union and the United States, which imposed sanctions on his inner circle after he was accused of rigging his 2002 re-election.

AFP

Not official but does give some hope.

http://www.zimelectionresults.com/


PRESIDENTIAL RESULTS
Morgan Tsvangirai 467,000 58%
Robert Mugabe 300,000 37%
Simba Makoni 43,000 5%

Seats
MDC 61%
ZANU-PF 26%
MUT/IND 13%

Well let's hope those results are indeed true and that they become official asap. And with Mad Bob being the person he is, Tsvangirai had better employ a good personal security team ... :(

If absolutely nobody in Zimbabwe voted, Mugabe would still have a majority of 1.5 times the population.

Alarming reports emerging of troop-mobilisation . . .
(Mugabe organising his own coup?)

ZANU-PF controlled military and police have vowed not to support anyone but Mugabe.



Saving it for April Fools Day? There's a lesson here somewhere...:(

Would Tsvangriai be any better than Bob, of course it would hard to be worse.
Whatever happens it will be a hard couple of years for the people.

... it will be a hard couple of years for the people.
No change there, then. :(

Mugabe has publicly sworn that "... the MDC and its leader Morgan Tsvangirai will never rule Zimbabwe in my lifetime."If Tsvangirai has won the vote, Mugabe will not go quietly. There is a very uneasy feeling about this delay in announcing the results. By law, whoever wins the election must poll over 50% of the votes. It would be difficult for Mugabe to "find" enough to close that very substantial gap of 21% so I would say his fall-back plans are in place.

Poor Zimbabwe. :(

Doubt Tsvangirai will be any different after a couple of years once he's tasted the gravy. It appears to be an African political trait that leaders wig out and cling to power at all costs. There are other countries outside Africa that suffer from this as well, but it seems endemic to this part of the world.:(

Hmm.....This delay is making me wonder if Bob is thinking about an offer from the Chief South African. Something along the lines of...OK Bob, it is time for you to go. Go peacefully and you can retire here with your millions...as long as you give some to me of course.