I wonder where he will skin out too if he is toppled? such as he used to be welcomed in places like the south of France at one time as long as they showed with half the treasury,although come to think with the insanity that holds sway in the UK now all he has to do is step off a plane and claim asylum here.
:uhoh:

Mr D
Good point, he will probably come here and use a little of his money to buy troubled Liverpool FC. They need a buyer, it seems the norm these days.

What about a few chaps who used to live in Hereford (or maybe are still in the said region) popping over via a neighboring state and giving him a smoking third eye (approx 5.56mm in dia)?

Problem solved.

Track
Thats something that should have been done a long long time ago! I just wonder why it wasn't.

Presumably part of the delay is Bob and his gang organising their exit, any signs of VIP movement anywhere in Zim?

Exit? Don't think so. Even if he loses, the military and police will just install him in power again.

SA heading the same way. Take a look (http://www.google.co.za/imgres?imgurl=http://www.armsdeal-vpo.co.za/cartoons/april_fool.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.armsdeal-vpo.co.za/cartoons/cartoons_zuma.html&h=97&w=128&sz=52&tbnid=VVoxYbTK5cAJ:&tbnh=97&tbnw=128&prev=/images%3Fq%3DApril%2BFool&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=1&ct=image&cd=1) at what's in the future there...


http://www.armsdeal-vpo.co.za/cartoons/april_fool.gif

any signs of VIP movement anywhere in Zim?
Whats the Butcher of Bulawayo got a BBJ, a CL60 or a G5?

I wonder where he will skin out too if he is toppled?
Oh dear ... looks like it could be your manor, Mr. Draper.


He has stated his wish to live in a 'safe' country if he should lose the election, which in the privacy of a private home he has told a select number friends.

On the announcement of this election, an expected win for the opposition he will board a private jet & secretly leave immediately for fear of reprisals from the people he has treated so cruelly.

It is understood Gordon Brown has agreed to give him temporary protection whilst contemplating long term possibilities & residence permit.


Here's the source and full article. (http://my.telegraph.co.uk/maggie_millington/april_2008/mugabe_seeks_asylum_in_britain.htm)

Fingers crossed!
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg224/kenwells_photo/1557044864_01_lzzzzzzz2copy.jpg

Breaking News Alert
The New York Times
Tuesday, April 1, 2008 -- 9:10 AM ET
-----

Mugabe Said to Be Negotiating Possible Exit

Advisers to President Robert G. Mugabe of Zimbabwe are in talks with the opposition leader, Morgan Tsvangirai, amid signs that Mr. Mugabe may be preparing to resign, a Western diplomatic source and a prominent Zimbabwe political analyst said.

Read More:
http://www.nytimes.com/?emc=na

Quote:
any signs of VIP movement anywhere in Zim?
Whats the Butcher of Bulawayo got a BBJ, a CL60 or a G5?


1 of 2 B-762s - is his normal transport - Air Zimbabwe

Just trawling through African notice boards. things look grim, I feel another Kenya about to happen!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Batten down the hatches! UN where are you now? A senior official in the ruling Zanu-PF party says high-level meetings have been held to decide how to react to Saturday's election. One possibility is that the security chiefs gang together to support Mr Mugabe, with whom they fought the 1970s guerrilla war against white minority rule. In the run-up to the polls, the head of the army, the police and the prison service said they would only serve Mr Mugabe, not any "puppet" - the president's favourite term for the opposition.

The opposition Movement for Democratic Change is convinced that its leader Morgan Tsvangirai won the election and the delay in announcing the results is to give President Robert Mugabe's allies time to fix the outcome. A possible compromise solution would be to announce that neither man gained more than 50% of the vote and so a run-off would be held in three weeks. This would buy time for Mr Mugabe's allies to mobilise - some predict using violence, as in previous elections. If Mr Mugabe is declared the victor, opposition supporters are likely to take to the streets in protest.

Previous opposition protests have been easily put down by the army and the riot police but some say it could be different this time. They argue that the economic situation has continued to deteriorate and ordinary soldiers and police officers - the ones who would be tasked with opening fire on protesters - are suffering as much as anyone else. Others, however, point out that many members of the security forces have benefitted from the redistribution of white-owned land in recent years.

They may also be at the front of the queue of those to be given shares taken from foreign businesses - a plan that Mr Mugabe announced just before the election But former Zimbabwean Lieutenant Colonel Martin Rupiya said "a large section" of the security forces remained loyal to Mr Mugabe, sharing his political convictions and global outlook.

Mr Rupiya, now at South Africa's Institute of Security Studies, dismisses those who say that security officials have been bought off with land - they are deeply held beliefs. Many of those who fought for independence now run Zimbabwe "I would not for one moment consider that that would be a payment to keep their loyalty," he said.

Army commander General Constatine Chiwenga, police chief Augustine Chihuri and prisons service head Retired Major-General Paradzayi Zimondi fought colonial rule, along with Mr Mugabe. When Zanu-PF was elected at independence, party officials were given positions at all levels of the state, where they still remain.The fight to reclaim land taken from black farmers was one reason why many Zimbabweans joined the war.

Thirty years later, Mr Mugabe and his allies say the UK is trying to use the opposition to oust him to reverse his land redistribution."We will not allow any puppets to take charge," Mr Chihuri said two weeks before the polls. "Most of us in here are truly owners of the land," he said. "This is the sovereignty we should defend at all costs because for us to get at this point others had to lose their lives. At this point our gains should never be reversed." But Mr Ripya estimates that just 20-30% of the security forces were "politicised".

"The rest are suffering with the people," he said. Robert Mugabe bases his manifesto on the struggle for land. As well as the economic crisis, another new dimension in this election is that a senior official from Mr Mugabe's Zanu-PF party has publicly challenged him. Simba Makoni does not seem to have done very well in the popular vote but there are numerous credible reports that he has the backing of some senior security chiefs.

Zimbabwe's feared secret police, backed Mr Makoni and may refuse to rig the poll on behalf of the president. "It is not a question of whether Mugabe will try to rig, it is a question of whether he will be allowed to," Mr Makumbe said. While Zimbabwe waits for the election results, Mr Mugabe and his closest aides are no doubt trying to work out if they can still rely on the security forces to suppress any unrest in the event that he is declared the winner.

Official announcement that the government election results show that Zanu PF has lost control, BUT no OFFICIAL word on the presidential vote.

I claim no particular knowledge of the Zimbabwe situation, but it is all very curious at present. Based on past behaviour, I had expected that Mugabe would produce results showing that he had won within 48 hours of the election (regardless of the number of votes cast for him of course). That that hasn't happened is intriguing - the way things are going at the moment it seems as if his cohorts have decided that he's yesterday's man, but an orderly transition may give them a chance of hanging on to their positions in some form, but they are still persuading the old man to do the decent thing.

Whether this happens, and whether once (if) he gains power Tsvangirai will be able to turn the country round remains to be seen of course.

Another contradictory thing form the man regarded by most as a despot is the new election rule that all polling stations had to post the result of votes cast on their door afterwards. This allowed the opposition to just go round and count them all, and then announce unofficially what the results were, which made electoral fraud by Mugabe much more difficult. Seems he's not as good at being a malevolent dictator as we thought!

As Joseph Stalin was reputed to have said " It is not important who votes, it is important who counts ". Perhaps this time Mugabe`s cohorts have miscalculated ? Good riddance to him and his henchmen who have destroyed a beautiful country.

I fear MT may need to watch his back very carefully until Mugabe and cronies are rendered harmless.

Q:
So lets say Mugabe and his closest cronies do a 'runner' this week to an isolated State somewhere in the world in a jet or helicopter, and in a few years time he ends up in an International Court for humanitarian crimes or no-one can find where he has stashed all the money: what will be the legal status of the pilots who flew the aircraft ? Or will his pilots be plucky enough to go 'tech' just before lineup ??

If they were simply pilots doing a job, I don't see that there would be any problem ... especially if Mugabe had not actually been charged with anything at the time of departure.

He will end up living a life of luxury in Saudi. Isn't that what Idi Amin did?

All the pilots have to say is that they did it under duress. The pilots are of no interest to anyone, only Black Bob and his gang matter, where are they, how much did they take, can they be got into a respectable court?
(and failing that, can they get a suicide bomber onto his escape 'plane?).

Good riddance to him and his henchmen who have destroyed a beautiful country.
Amen.

Still should have got/should get a smoking third eye for rooting the country irreversibly.

I'm sure the Rt. Hon. Mr Broon will put him up somewhere until the last of the treasury is safely stored somewhere.

Ah, Rhodesia, in 3 decades from abundance to basket case, now in its death throes.

I just read he got a Knight Commander, Order of the Bath in 1994. WTF???

and as late as 2000 Tony Blair sanctioned sales of Hawk spare parts for the planes we sold him in the 80's and 90's

F*cking disgrace

"F*cking disgrace"


Especially if we were paid in Zim$.

Assuming he did pay, of course.

Good point, on top of that we still give the little African Hitler foriegn aid, year after year after year!!!!

No bombs, No Stealth fighers, or aircraft carriers.

One pilot...one plane, one Navy Seal Sniper, some decent intel on the ground.

One bullet from about 750yrds to assure the shot...

This thread and the worst dictatorship since Idi Amin would be done.

This thread and the worst dictatorship since Idi Amin would be done.

Mugabe might be bad, but I can certainly say he is far from being the worst dictator since Idi Amin!

Nothing would play in Mugabe's hands better than the US or the UK stomping on in. Thankfully Kenya and probably Zim are better off as a result of our hands off attitude.

Sunray - that is possibly the stupist thing I have heard for some years - every since the WMD reason for invading Iraq. Most of us here (countries that is) are in Afghanistan and many also in Iraq.

What about the people? Zimbabwe should be a wealthy and prosperous country with a multi-racial society now that the white supremist have mostly fled.

Lets stomp on him. I vote for invasion.

:}

Deep sigh.

You are in Afghanistan because the Taleban got rid of Afghan opium production, and it needed to be got back. 9/11 provided a credible excuse. (For those who don't know, prior to the Taleban, Afghanistan produced about 75% of the world's heroin. The Taleban got rid of it. Since we (the West) got rid of the Taleban, Afghanistan now produces around 90% of the world's heroin. Naturally, we (the West) are unable to do anything about this).

You are in Iraq because Saddam swapped the Greenback for the Euro as the currency for oil transactions. Now that he is gone, the dollar is back. WMD provided a credible excuse.

Zim has very little to offer. Plenty of minerals, to be sure, but the world is not short of minerals.

If there were ever to be an excuse, I'd be picking tobbacco as the most likely, and even then, the scenario is a bit of a stretch, as it has to involve China. As you will know, the Chinese are moving against tobbacco, officially at least. However, they know they will need an ongoing supply of it, which means an offshore supplier of some significance, which Zim of course has the potential to be, again.
Involvement in Zim, in order to prevent a Chinese 'takeover' (complete with missile bases, etc, etc, etc) will require something like the above.

Darfur is fortunate in that it has oil. Unfortunately, the world isn't particularly short of that either, just at this time, thus it is expedient for the Powers That Be to wait until most of the Darfurians are dead before offering them humanitarian aid.

Zim doesn't have oil, so it had better hope it has something else of value. I'm suggesting tobbacco. Any other guesses?

Barkly, well fine then. Send our shooters off to Uzbekistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Belarus, Swaziland, North Korea or Turkmenistan. Any time there is a government we don't like, we'll shoot 'em - that will fix it won't it?

A lot of African states, having been colonised, have a gripe against the white man and any intervention by us is seized on as a further sign of the colonizers not letting go. Regardless of the rights or wrongs of this fact, it exists and undermines most of the interventions we can make, to varying degrees, and assassinations especially so. Your simple solution isn't actually so simple, and all African's are not the same, despite the assertion that seems to get dribbled out on here.

Besides, we've tried removing heads of state in the Middle East before and it opened up all kinds of hell.

Sunray

Zim and Kenya better off ? When were you last in Harare or Nairobi ? As for letting go, then let's all just do that then and let the Africans starve themselves, slaughter each other in tribal droves and generally f**k one another over for a percentage ? All the fault of the colonisers ? I think not.

As for removing Saddam, well, arguably the current internicine (for the violence is indeed perpetrated on muslims by muslims) death rate is comparable when one considers the mass murders perpetrated over the three decades of his regime.

If anyone has let the genie out of the bottle there then perhaps this is what it takes to advance beyond the tyranny of the Ba'athist regime and it's clones throughout the Middle East ? It was never going to be a peaceful transition, and never will be as long as the various factions within Islam are fighting for control. The Shia / Sunni / Wahabi etc etc muslims have been slaughtering one another in droves for decades and blaming everyone else for their stupidity, naivety, gullibility and greed - and the Western chattering classes accept the blame for this ???

I was in Nairobi supporting a researcher 3 weeks ago as it happens - far from a fleeting visit and certainly not popping in to see some wildlife.

If you want to improve the lot of Africa, feel free to leave them alone, cut off aid (most of it returns directly to donor states anyway), or do whatever. But just make sure you even up the terms of trade, remove protection and Africa as a whole will be instantly better off than it currently is. Far easier to simply blame the African's though isn't it? And if you are saying the current situation in Kenya is tribal then your analysis of the situation there is paper thin.

As for removing Saddam, the current death rate is utterly incomparable with what occurred during his 25 years. The level of violence the currently exists didn't exist prior to 2003, so squarely points to our interventions as being the catalyst. What utter garbage that it could never have been a peaceful transition from Ba'athist rule!

Oh, always so easy to blame everyone else, eh?

I am in shock!

Find myself (mostly) agreeing with a post from Sunray.

It's been a funny sort of day......

Three weeks ago Sunray... I just missed you (maybe you moved :E)

Perhaps my old oppo Mutula Kilonzo will disagree with you ? Not so paper thin, and I reject your assumption of the mantle of Kenya expert on the forum for reasons I can't be bothered to go into here.

I certainly don't purport to be one, especially if the Kenyans can't even recognise the reasons for their current quagmire

.............................................................

Tribal chauvinism is the trouble in ODM-Kenya

It is not strange to hear a voter threaten to burn a voter’s card or back President Kibaki’s re-election if a tribesman is not nominated the ODM-Kenya candidate.

Surprisingly, the voter prepared to die for the tribal aspirant is among the 16 million Kenyans living below the poverty line. The country’s leadership has taken advantage of the gullibility of the poor electorate to subscribe to tribalism and take refuge in it when there is a crisis.

Election time is a fertile time to invoke ethnic sentiments. The unfortunate sentiments explain how deep ethnicity has sunk and how people find it convenient to call themselves Kenyans during the day, but are tribal chauvinists in darkness.

Unfortunately, leaders promote tribalism at the expense of nationalism as soon as they are sworn in as President. Kibaki was elected on the short-lived national euphoria because he promised change, including an end to ethnicity. But once he got power, he ensured the perpetuation and perfection of the vice.

The Opposition is equally infected with the ethnic virus and a casual glance at ODM presidential aspirants corroborates the point — that there is nothing substantially nationalistic in them and their supporters. ODM-Kenya is in deeper quagmire than the ruling coalition, Narc, it seeks to oust in the next General Election.

As of now, it is the only party with the credentials and support to meaningfully oppose Kibaki, but its leaders are sharply divided along ethnic lines over who becomes the flagbearer in the polls.
Issues aside, ethnicity reigns supreme in the race to State House, not only in ODM but also in other parties.

For instance, some of the contenders boast numerical voting strength to beat rivals, while others threaten to move out of ODM with their kinsmen if they are not nominated.

At the centre of controversy is the method of nominating a single presidential candidate out of eight aspirants. While ODM is feuding over the nomination method, Kibaki is not short of a party in which to defend his parliamentary and the presidential seats.

Narc and its orphanage, Narc-Kenya, and his former party, DP, are unanimous that they have a candidate in Kibaki. The President is characteristically silent over his re-election bid, but he has since declined DP’s offer in what explains the undue advantage an incumbent has over opponents.

In ODM, delegates and consensus methods are good, but they have their advantages and disadvantages. If the party hopes to survive the pitfalls and tribal chauvinistic intrigues ahead, it has to factor in the consensus method even after a delegates nomination.
Otherwise, it may find itself in the situation Narc, Kanu and Ford have found themselves sometime in their history.
Past presidents, including Kibaki, are products of consensus and so were most Opposition candidates in the 1992, 1997 and 2002 elections. Kanu lost a 40-year stranglehold on power because the flagbearer was handpicked instead of aspirants being asked to agree on one or subject them to a contest.
Ford disintegrated over the method of nomination. Today, there are as many Fords as cars bearing the name.
In ideological parties such as those in Tanzania and the US, losers support winners. Kenya does not have parties based on ideology and this explains post-nomination acrimony and fallout.
Some aspirants are contemplating a walkout to tribal outfits, new alliances or purchase any of the many registered briefcase political parties. No wonder the country has more than 80 dormant parties whose leaders are more than ready to auction.
The ruling coalition is praying for a fall-out as was the case in 1992 and 2002. The former enabled former President Moi to retain the presidency twice and the latter for Kibaki to oust Kanu.




The writer is a Nominated MP and ODM-Kenya vice-chairman

EBAGUM's time is up!:D

I can't help but think that a convenient, possibly undefined illness dragging Bob off to Switzerland for prolonged treatment at a (very) private clinic might not be his most face-saving exit strategy. (Or should that read "neck saving"?)

However, if the men running Zanu PF after he's gone plan to retain power, they'll probably have to throw off all pretence of democracy and do a North Korea on the population. If the Chinese continue to back them (as they have to date), they might even get away with it.

If they don't succeed in maintaining power, there will almost certainly be a blood-letting, quite possibly quite a nasty one, and near anarchy for some time, for I can't see too many of the police and military hierarchy imagining they will survive in their current positions long term under an MDC government, so they'll have to fight - or more likely, do a runner (to I wonder where?) as 'refugees', with as much of their ill-gotten gains as they can carry, which I am sure will be in currencies other than Zim Dollars.

Quite a few years ago I returned home after yet another trip to Nigeria and happened to meet someone who came from where I was raised in the country. When he asked what it was like in Africa I replied there is only one difference between Africa and N I and that is that we only have two tribes in N I.

Red Ken just copped to having five bairns. Wanna bet Moonbeam Minimus makes six?

I jus' loves his slant on international affairs. It wakes all that dormant, deeply-buried liberal guilt from long ago, those deep and meaningful discussions held over a Westport coffee table about the burning issues of the day, freedom for Bangladesh and whether it was right for Bob Dylan to go electric.

Meanwhile, from what I read in the papers, Mad Bob & Co are going for a run-off, since it would seem that no one got the required 50%. How can they tell that if they haven't finished counting the votes? Good heavens, is there something funny going on?

Forecast:

1. Presidential Election: The election commission will say no one got more than 50% and announce a two-way run-off. Bob will say "unrest' and a planned coup by the opposition make it unsafe to be held immediately and delay it 90 days. During that period the opposition will be terrorised/killed/exiled and Bob wins "fair" subsequent vote by a landslide due to the votes of the grateful electorate.

2. Upper & Lower Houses: MDC shown to have slight majority; but ZANU-PF complaint of MDC interference of votes in 16 constituencies upheld and party disqualified - leaving ZANU candidates as winners.

3. Savage retribution on all opposition parties/members for getting uppity and daring to think they could take power away from Bob that easily.

4. More years of misery.....

Other way to play same hand of cards:

Bob develops a tummyache. It just keeps growing worse. Bad clam, likely.

All of Bob's faithful are and remain very sympathetic, even as that darn clam drags Bob down ever more. Bob's tasters are dropping like flies, meantime.

Accommodations are made. Fixes strong in place remain for a bit. Settlements and deals soften the edges. The 'old guard' repent to partially become the new guard. Boxes drive out in dark of night from Harare central to points other.

Four months is the deal, but three see it near all done. The brains, money and muscle vanish, leaving a calm and smoking hole.

Its getting worse as predicted. The lawers who were going to court to press for the release of the election results have been turned away at the courthouse by armed police. They didn't even get in. It's a joke. I wonder, as Mugabe lives in an isolated world of luxury, if he actually knows what is happening. I wonder if his henchmen tell him the crock of s**t is a pot of gold. When interviewed he seems totally oblivious to what is going on around him.

That is business as usual for despots, really. Remember Ceaucescu getting boos instead of the programmed applause at his last address to "his" people. He was just stuck up there waving his hand with a very odd look on his face, after which the whole thing caved in!

The Bob Show has been running for a long time but now it seems to be losing audience share at an alarming rate. One big problem for ZANU-PF must be that he's just plain OLD! When they lose him, well, where is his replacement? It's not going to be Grace, is it?

For now it looks as if they are going to slam the lid down, beat hell out of everyone who even looks like they are not going to vote "propah", have their run-off and just carry on with a democratically elected leader, Bob. Anyone see the African Union intervening, or perhaps the South Africans? Not me, but what do I know. Stand by for an expert opinion from a London-based expert in World Affrays:

Oh, I forgot to add: WE ARE ALL GUILTY! Especially we Americans, led by George W. Bush. I just wanted to point that out before anyone else did. Thank you.

The SA govt will not lift a finger against Mugabe. Their clandestine support for him and their lack of response to excesses perpetrated by ZANU-PF are a clear indication of the way Zim's southern neighbour is headed. When the same thing happens in SA, as it undoubtedly will one day, the ANC do not want any of their neighbours to turn on them. They will continue to support a despotic regime while paying lip service to the outrage expressed by the developed world.:rolleyes:

Oh, I forgot to add: WE ARE ALL GUILTY! Especially we Americans, led by George W. Bush. I just wanted to point that out before anyone else did. Thank you.

Nah Chuks. That honour belongs to Lord Owen (who was the British Foreign Secretary at the time) and Malcolm Fraser (the lily livered, backstabbing piece of dog shite that was our (Oz) Prime Minister at the time). The only thing that the yanks did was to encourage them.

if only zimbabwe had oil fields,many countries would had have been queuing to 'help' the population innit?


Its shall be a real chaotic situation for the poors and unemployed and those not related to EBAGUM if the latter is elected again.

Whatever...:suspect:.....that Mugabe should be shot.

He did 2 steps (education etc..) forward,but 100000's backward (corruption,crimes,frauds)


He definitely should be tried,then strangulated,assassinated,slaughtered, .......or simply killed.

My only question - what country has enough printing capacity to print enough currency to support (or more properly, create) such a preposterous inflation rate? :eek:

Some of the owners of the few remaining white farmers in Zimbabwe are reporting that militants supporters of Mugabe are invading their farmland. Several report that their cattle have been driven off their lands

BBC News

barit1
They don't print banknotes, as they ran out of foreign currency to buy banknote paper years ago. They issue paper replicas that have an expiry date so if you have a Z$100,000 banknote that expires on the 31st December, on the 1st January it is worthless.
Captain djaffar
Rhodesia. as it was, had the highest education rate for the native population in the whole of Africa.
The Rhodesian Ministry of Agriculture used hangers at the old RAF Heany to store surplus maize in case of bad years. In 1980 they had 3 years reserve stockpiled. Within 18 months it had been sold off. Privately.

Democracy is as alien to Africa as is technology.

What most western critics fail to realise is that less than three hundred years ago Africans were living in mud huts and wearing animal skins. The only sense of loyalty they were committed to was the tribe.

Tribal loyalty overcomes rational democracy.

This is why democracy fails in Africa. The whole concept is alien. In Africa you get told who to vote for by your local chief. In other words, you have the right to vote, but you will be told who to vote for.

For the first time in history an African country is voting for a peaceful democratic change! And the world is ignoring it! Everyone is standing around bowing to that dictator as if he was important!

Kill the little Nazi moustache dictator and free his people!

Condemn the SADEC, because it is farcical.

The SADEC is scared of true democracy because it will toss out revolutionary governments and instill the will of peace-loving democratic societies.

The only problem with cheap easy solutions is that no one makes a buck...

The kinda people that are in the biz of taking down leaders, see no value in simply taking out someone bad because they are bad...these are a jaded cynical lot...

They gotta keep the oil companies busy, make some Hummers, tanks, bullet proof vests, bottled water, Boeing has to get it's share..

I mean, if we just simply sniped a bad leader or spiked his food for the good of mankind because is was the right thing to do, who would benefit?

You don't think we could have simply picked off Saddam early on? For the 12 years we had weapons inspectors running around, F16s flying overhead. By declaring war, giving him time to get undergroud, that assured a nice long, protracted fight...that means money....war is the most expensive pursuit there is...

War is a bizness. Don't let your kids read this, they will probably just realize that strangling their parents in the night, is the only sure way to straighten things out and start from scratch...to truly have the world they want to inheret.

ssg: You know that the CIA could have sniped M*gabe years ago. I reckon that they couldn't be bother back then, and that they can't now, given their budget cuts.

Sadly I think ssg is bang on the money!

Looks like what amounts to a coup in Zim. Mugabe not releasing results or stepping down and holding onto power illegally (again...!:rolleyes:) with the help of the military and police. A de facto coup, in effect...


Zim 'run by a military govt'
10/04/2008 20:21 - (SA)

Johannesburg - Movement for Democratic Change leader Morgan Tsvangirai had been briefed by senior Zimbabwean military and intelligence officials that their aim is not only to intimidate but to punish opponents of the regime.

"We will not accept that," MDC secretary-general Tendai Biti said at a news conference in Johannesburg on Thursday.

He said that Zimbabwe was being run by a military government and President Robert Mugabe had effectively pulled off an "unconstitutional coup" by not stepping down.


Biti said constitutional rule had been abandoned, the election process had been aborted and the MDC had received a leaked report that military forces were being deployed across the country.

Despite the election results not having been released 300 hours after the voting process, the MDC had won "beyond a reasonable doubt" with a margin higher than the initial reports of 50.3%, Biti said.

He said Mugabe's term of office, and that of his cabinet, had expired on March 11.

"In reality President Robert Mugabe is a caretaker president. There is an illegitimate government in place in Zimbabwe."

He also confirmed that the MDC would not take part in a run-off election.

"We won the presidential election hands down, without the need for a run off. It will simply exacerbate a situation of suffering of our people... a new government will have to get on with the business of governance."

"A run-off is a mere run over of people's rights."

Biti said Mugabe needed to be told that he should step down.

On Monday, the High Court in Harare is expected to give judgment on the urgent application by the MDC to release the results of the presidential election.


Meanwhile, the ANC Youth League is troubled by in fighting as results of a leadership election are in dispute due to allegations of vote tampering. Guess the future leadership of SA are practicing for when they're in office and don't really have any great urge to leave, just like their hero Mugabe.:hmm:


Sunday times columnist fired for voicing an opinion http://iafrica.com/news/sa/654146.htm

Meanwhile, it's OK to promote hate speech. http://iafrica.com/news/sa/653691.htm :ugh:

Mugabe has refused to attend a weekend summit meeting with other regional leaders as they try to sort out the mess in Zimbabwe.

And STILL, two weeks after the election, no results are available.

Spokesman Bright Matonga, Zimbabwe's deputy minister of information, said that because Mugabe was a candidate he was -- like everyone else -- powerless to say when the results would be announced or what they would show.
Yeah. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight! :rolleyes:

This has got to be a first. A Robinson R44 is a "threat to national security"...:rolleyes:

Zimbabwe: Tsvangirai Lawyer Arrested for Demanding Helicopter

SW Radio Africa (London)
11 April 2008
Lance Guma

Innocent Chagonda, a lawyer who normally represents MDC president Morgan Tsvangirai, was on Thursday arrested by police in Harare after he demanded the release of a helicopter hired by the party.

Police seized the helicopter and arrested the pilot, 4 days before the March 29 elections, to block Tsvangirai accessing remote rural villages during his campaign trail.

Brent Smyth, the South African pilot, was arrested at Charles Prince Airport alongside MDC official Jameson Timba and two others, an airport staff member and another employee from the helicopter company. Although the courts freed all those arrested the state is refusing to release the helicopter on the grounds it is a threat to national security.

On Thursday Chagonda had threatened to sue the police for refusing to release the helicopter, but officers turned around and claimed he threatened and insulted them while they went about their job. Chagonda is now being charged with, 'causing disaffection against the police,' an obscure crime under the Criminal Law Act.

It remains unclear if Chagonda will be released before the weekend but his own lawyer Chris Mhike told journalists, 'he is still in police custody at Rhodesville police station. They are refusing to release him and I am not sure if they are going to release him any time soon. His detention is clearly unwarranted,' he said.

Source: allAfrica.com

Maybe they think it's going to crash on someone. Can't say I blame them :p

No change...:(

Mugabe clamps down in capital
Godfrey Marawanyika

Fri, 11 Apr 2008


Zimbabwe's Robert Mugabe clamped down on Friday in the capital with a ban on all political rallies, as his party raised doubts over his attendance at a weekend summit on the post-election crisis.

"We see no reason for rallies since we have had elections," police spokesperson Wayne Bvudzijena told AFP, adding that there would be a media briefing at 4pm GMT to explain the decision in full.

President Mugabe had been expected to lock horns with opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai at a summit in Zambia on Saturday aimed at breaking the post-election deadlock between his ruling party and the opposition.

Will Mugabe attend summit?

However, on Friday, Mugabe's ruling Zimbabwe African National Union-Patriotic Front (Zanu-PF) appeared to row back from that position, saying the veteran leader had not yet decided whether he would attend.

Heads of state of the 14-nation Southern African Development Community (Sadc) had been called to the summit earlier in the week by Zambian President Levy Mwanawasa.

"We received the communiqué from Sadc and another one from Mr Mwanawasa. It's a very general request and we are still considering it," deputy information minister Bright Matonga said.

"The summit was called without consultation with the Zimbabwean government. But one way or another Zimbabwe will be represented, but at what level, that is still to be decided," he told AFP.

Meanwhile, the opposition Movement for Democratic Change accused the Mugabe regime of stepping up a crackdown by arresting a lawyer for simply demanding the release of a helicopter hired by Tsvangirai for his presidential campaign.

The helicopter had been confiscated by police and the pilot, a South African national, was detained on 25 March for alleged fraud and immigration transgressions. He spent nine days behind bars before being freed.

"As a party we feel this is a sustained effort on the part of the authorities against people who assist the MDC," spokesperson Nelson Chamisa said.

"This is an onslaught which is not only happening in the rural areas, but even in the civil service as people who are perceived MDC supporters are being intimidated."

Zimbabwe is still awaiting the result of the presidential election on 29 March. Tsvangirai claims outright victory, but the Zanu-PF has said there must be a run-off even though the result is not yet known.

Zim under military rule?

The opposition on Thursday ruled out Tsvangirai's participation in any second-round vote, accusing Mugabe and his regime of having launched a campaign of intimidation that would affect the true democratic result.

"The military leaders in the establishment are trying to subvert the will of the people," Tsvangirai said earlier in the week.

"This is, in a sense, a de facto military coup. They have rolled out military forces across the whole country, to prepare for a run-off and try to cow the population. It's an attempt to try to create conditions for Mugabe to win."

But the aftermath of the election has so far been largely peaceful and despite reports of the invasion of several white-owned farms, no unusually heavy military presence has been witnessed in the capital Harare.

Zimbabwe Information Minister Bright Matonga on Friday shot down the opposition claims.

"There was no violence before the election, during the election or after the election so we can't talk about even a military junta or anything," he told SABC radio in South Africa.

Tsvangirai, whose attendance at Saturday's summit in Lusaka has already been confirmed, met on Thursday in Pretoria with President Thabo Mbeki of South Africa, officials said.

Mbeki, the regional heavyweight, has come under fire for failing to condemn the long delay in announcing the presidential poll result.

"The meeting went well. The details of it are not at this stage for public consumption," MDC spokesperson Nqobizitha Mlilo told AFP, giving the first news of the meeting on Friday.

A legal bid by the opposition to force Zimbabwe's electoral commission to declare the result is still under consideration by a judge and no decision on the matter is expected until Monday, at the earliest.

The ruling party is contesting enough seats in the simultaneous parliamentary elections to overturn a slim opposition majority and has also demanded a total recount of the presidential vote.

With acknowledgement to Gunship on another aviation board...

Well as some of you know I was on the Zim border hovering around for some possible business and so on. It was just not worth the while to cross so I stayed on a game lodge for a week with my dear friend ***** ********. In Total I saw about 40 people coming through. 10 I saw first hand on the game farm. Yes, with photos coming up. ***** was not too happy but I preferred to shut my trap and take photo's. As they left for Thohoyandou one showed the "mad sign" and said "Mugabe" ... it says it all.

'It's final farewell to Zim'

09/04/2008 09:58 - (SA)

Beit Bridge -

With his wife and two children in tow, Aaron Mashebu crosses from Zimbabwe into South Africa, fearful his homeland might descend into post-election chaos.

Zimbabwe could "snowball into anarchy and at that time it might be difficult to run away, the borders might be closed," the 42-year-old former teacher said.

He was just one of 1 500 Zimbabweans to cross the border post at Beit Bridge on Sunday and while many were simply nipping across to stock up on much-needed basics like sugar, rice and cooking oil, others said "enough is enough".

"My family and I have passed through the furnace of hell in the past two years. I can bear it no more. For me it is final farewell to Zimbabwe until further notice," said Celine Majola, who was without her two children.

"I do not know where I am going in particular in South Africa. But anywhere there is just fine," says Majola, who shunned her husband's advice to stay put and crossed the Limpopo into SA in the hope of finding work.

"I hope to start a new life, look for something to do and send money back home to feed my children. Zimbabwe no longer holds any promising future for me," she said as she adjusted the load on her head.

Zim situation 'frightening'

Eunice Lindiwe, 27, carrying a baby, has just arrived in South Africa from Zimbabwe and hopes to find any menial job to tide her over.

"It is frightening what is happening in Zimbabwe. Now I do not feel safe staying in this country any longer."

Majola, 32, tells how her grocery shop was destroyed in a state-sponsored demolition blitz and how she later got a job as a factory hand only for the company to close down late last year as Zimbabwe's economy imploded.

She said she had decided not to heed her jobless husband's pleas because she did not want to be in Zimbabwe if fighting broke out after the elections.

Others had decided to stay, keeping a careful eye on developments to see if Robert Mugabe's attempts to cling to power following presidential elections claimed by opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai turned nasty.

"We are really suffering in Zimbabwe. But there are some of us who have decided to stay and watch the political situation unfold for now," Tracy Tumba, a 29-year-old trader said at the Zimbabwean end of the border crossing.

Tumba wanted Mugabe to go. "We need fresh brains, hands and ideas, but he is stubborn," she said.

'Life is unbearable in Zimbabwe'

She crosses the border posts twice a week to buy scarce basic goods in South Africa, which she resells in Zimbabwe. "That is what I do to keep us alive," she added.

Agricultural production in Mugabe's country had been halved by his controversial land reform programme and Zimbabwe was now forced to import its own staple crop maize from neighbouring countries.

This had helped Zimbabwe chalk up world-record inflation above 100 000% and an unemployment rate of a staggering 80%.

The economic conditions in Zimbabwe were even too much for 60 Somalis, who said they had fled their war-torn country and crossed five countries and arrived in Zimbabwe two months ago.

"Life is unbearable in Zimbabwe," says Mustapha Umar, who was leading the group, as he shared three loaves of bread with his compatriots. "We escaped bullets in Somalia only to face starvation in Zimbabwe."

Many Zimbabweans at the border post were wearing yellow T-shirts emblazoned with the picture of presidential candidate and former finance minister Simba Makoni, but appearances were deceiving.

"I am not wearing a Makoni shirt because I am his supporter. I am for Morgan (Tsvangirai). But the Makoni T-shirts, produced in South Africa, were not allowed to cross the border into Zimbabwe. So they were given to us in large quantities," explained an ice-cream seller who identified himself only as James.

http://www.sokwanele.com/files/images/shapiro11april2008.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v511/BlueDiamond01/Mugabe002.jpg

If some of my responses in this thread seem a little frivolous, it's because it's still hard to believe, despite all I have seen, that anyone would knowingly run his beloved country into the ground. The mind boggles at the sheer arrogant incompetence it must take, to save face and cling on to a position at the expense of everyone else in the whole bloomin' country. I don't care if Mugabe is forgiven of all his sins, and floats away on a golden parachute - as long as he goes. :mad:

it's still hard to believe, despite all I have seen, that anyone would knowingly run his beloved country into the ground. The mind boggles at the sheer arrogant incompetence it must take, to save face and cling on to a position at the expense of everyone else in the whole bloomin' country.

Helen Clark, take note. :hmm:

Well well, all votes to be recounted....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/apr/12/zimbabwe1

New link:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/apr/13/zimbabwe1

So, according to BBC news, African governments have refused to condemn Mugabe and his cronies over the ridiculous farce that they are playing out under the banner of "democracy". Recounts in enough constituencies to ensure that with a little jiggery-pokery ZANU-PF will wind up with just enough seat in parliament to maintain a majority - and eventually, an overall win in the first presidential ballot for Mugabe.

Then we hear that the Army is not going to fight a war against the Zimbabwe people. Well they won't need to because Mugabe's SS - the "War Veterans" will be doing that for him.

Does this remind you of anything? It does me, Germany in the 1930's under one Mr. Hitler. OK, Mr. Hitler was rather more skillful with the economy but the ruthlessness of his henchmen, and the unwillingness of nations to roundly condenm him, and take action, before it was too late are frightening parallels.

Instead of becoming mired in Iraq, the UK forces would be better used on a little "gun-boat diplomacy" in Zimbabwe (OK - I know they don't have a coast line before anyone reminds me!).

Mugabe has to be removed - for the good of all the population. He is a stronger case than Saddam.

I really wish they'd sort themselves out in Zim.

This is VERY bad for us in SA and the last thing we need is tens of thousands of asylum seekers to further bu&&er up our economy.

We're the last functional country in Africa and we're overrun with Somalis, Kenyans, Ivorians, Congolese and Zimbabweans etc. alll competing for jobs with our own folk.

Selfish? You bet!

:*

Who does that Mugabe think he is? the feckin EU! how dare he demand the election is re run until he gets the result he wants.
:rolleyes:

And Mbeki shows his true colours as he meets with Mugabe then issues a statement asserting that "there is no crisis in Zimbabwe."

Thugs. The pair of them.

Mbeki dumber than duck turds. Quelle surprise....:rolleyes:

Todays Sunday Times:

Arrests, torture, bans, invasions ... and still no election results — but after meeting Mugabe, Mbeki says: ‘There is no crisis’

“There is no crisis in Zimbabwe,” President Thabo Mbeki announced after a one-hour meeting with embattled Zimbabwean leader Robert Mugabe in Harare yesterday.

Mbeki was on his way to a Southern African Development Community emergency meeting in Lusaka, called to prevent Zimbabwe’s disputed elections from erupting into full-scale violence.

He told reporters in Harare that the election stalemate was not a crisis and the Zimbabwean Electoral Commission (ZEC) must be given time to release the results of a presidential poll held two weeks ago.

The Movement for Democratic Change says it won outright, and the delays in announcing the March 29 poll results are a ploy by Mugabe to rig the poll.

Mbeki’s comments came after a week in which the election process degenerated into a fiasco and security forces tightened their iron grip on the country. In other signs of an increasingly paranoid regime, Zanu-PF militias invaded some of the few remaining white farms, beat up farm workers and burnt their huts, terrorised and tortured opposition supporters, and threatened to kill voters who did not back the ruling party in the event of a run-off election.

“I wouldn’t describe that as a crisis. It’s a normal electoral process in Zimbabwe. We have to wait for ZEC to release (the results),” Mbeki said.

Mugabe yesterday denied he was snubbing the summit , saying he had “other business” to attend to. “He (Mbeki) is going to the summit, I’m not. Because three people have already gone, I’ve already appointed to go on our behalf. We’re very good friends, very good brothers. But sometimes we also have other business that holds us back,” said Mugabe.

Mugabe’s absence from the crisis meeting has heightened suspicions that he is no longer in control of the country and is being kept in office only by the military.

Harare’s political circles are abuzz with talk that he is concerned about his security and that he is afraid to leave the country. It is also believed that even the army is no longer fully behind the 84-year-old leader.

Mugabe met Mbeki at the airport before the talks at State House. The two presidents, smiling, walked hand in hand and climbed into the same car .

Mugabe was flanked at the airport by his army chief of staff and police chief — two of his staunchest supporters.

Mugabe is said to have privately conceded defeat a week ago and tried to leave the country, but senior army generals refused to allow him to go, fearful that without him they would be exposed to prosecution.

On Friday, Zimbabwean police banned all political rallies, accusing the opposition MDC of “spoiling for a fight”, and announced the deployment of hundreds of youth members across the country.

The MDC had scheduled a mass rally for today and called for a general strike to protest at the election deadlock. “We call upon transporters, workers, vendors and everyone to stay at home. The power is in our hands,” a pamphlet read.

“Zimbabweans have been taken for granted for too long. We demand that the presidential election results be announced now.”

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown said yesterday that the world could not wait any longer for Zimbabwe to release the results of last month’s elections. Making his second statement on the situation in two days, Brown said the international community was growing increasingly frustrated.

Scores of reports from around Zimbabwe indicate a concerted campaign of violence and intimidation against opposition party workers, supporters and election observers.

Violent invasions of white- owned farms by so-called war veterans and youth militia have been launched to simulate a “popular uprising” in favour of land redistribution.

The government says it is preparing for a run-off between Mugabe and Tsvangirai, but the MDC has said it will not take part, arguing that it has already won power.

When he arrived at the summit in Lusaka, Tsvangirai was greeted by chants of “president, president”.

On Friday, Tsvangirai issued a fresh call for Mugabe to step down. The opposition leader was speaking from South Africa, where he was finally granted a meeting with Mbeki.

“He should recognise that he has lost and let me get on with making our great country great once more,” Tsvangirai said.

Earlier in the week, Tsvangirai had warned that the military was now directly interfering with the work of the ZEC by arresting its officials and moving the work of the verification of the presidential ballots to a secret place where MDC representatives were not present. “They have literally overthrown the civilian authority,” he said.

Lucia Matibenga, the first vice-president of the Zimbabwe Congress of Trade Unions, told the Sunday Times that Zanu-PF MPs had been given 3000 litres of fuel each to ensure they had the capacity to mobilise for Mugabe ahead of a run-off.

“ Each will be working with a designated army person as leaders of the Zanu-PF campaign at district level,” Matibenga said.

“That spells danger. If you have an army person involved in the campaign, all he or she has to do is command the army to do certain things.”

Matibenga said war veterans had taken over the grain marketing board, and had told people they would starve them for voting against Zanu-PF.

“We also have reports of government-owned buses being used to deploy youth militia in rural areas, which we fear means that Mugabe will seal off rural areas to the opposition.

“I believe there is going to be a lot of violence and intimidation and manipulation of food supplies, along with partisan acts by the traditional leaders, as a means of manipulating the run- off,” she said.

The ban on rallies came as the MDC prepared for a series of rallies around the country ahead of tomorrow’s court judgment on an application for the release of the poll results.

The move came as the 300-odd accredited foreign journalists were leaving the country this week as their permits expired, sparking fears that state terror would worsen in the absence of international attention.

Southern African parliamentary Speakers yesterday joined an international chorus urging leaders at the Lusaka summit to help bring about a speedy solution to Zimbabwe’s crisis. — Additional reporting by Reuters, AFP and The Times, London

For Mbeke - read Chamberlain!

Well Mugabe has at least got one thing right,....Tosser Brown is indeed an insignificant little dot on this planet.

From the Times,
ZIMBABWE’S President Robert Mugabe yesterday dismissed an attempt by Gordon Brown to intervene in the crisis over his country’s disputed elections by describing the prime minister as a “tiny dot on this planet”.

For Mbeke - read Chamberlain!

For Mbeki, read Goebbels. He knows perfectly well what's going on in Zim. He's merely sugar coating it to cover his arse for future excursions by the ANC along the same path.

ZIMBABWE’S President Robert Mugabe yesterday dismissed an attempt by Gordon Brown to intervene in the crisis over his country’s disputed elections by describing the prime minister as a “tiny dot on this planet”.

I saw him say that on the box tonight, and y'know, it struck me, ol' Uncle Harare Bob really didn't seem like he was long for this planet when he said it.

Who was it predicted his demise on the Predictions thread? :ooh: Somebody will know.

SADC emergency summit just ended with all throwing their weight behind Mugabe.

Guess there's no chance of them doing the right thing now. Silly to expect anything else really.....:rolleyes:

The court application by the MDC to get the election results released by the Zim Electoral Commission has been refused.

No surprises there then....:hmm::rolleyes:

Mr Ruster I been meaning to ask,were you born in Zim?

Not in Zim, Mr Tinny. Close to the Zim border and had a lot of mates from Zim as a kid. Spent a fair amount of time there too. Angers me to see so much potential spiralling around the drain....:(

bigbluecar

I have not seen any of the Headcases yet, that was really funny.:ok:

http://avcom.co.za/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=33916

Classic SRT!!

Its a very sad situation at the moment

I saw him walking hand in hand with Thabo on the news on Sat.

Both of them proclaiming that there was no problem....

Zimbabwe. The only country in the world where the largest banknote ($500) won't even buy you a roll of one-ply toilet paper ($1,000).

There are about 72 squares on the average roll so you're better off changing your $1,000 into $10 notes, wiping your butt on 72 of them ... and getting $280 change.

South Africa's obviously headed down the same hole.

Most sensible observers would agree with the proposition that Africans were far better off when they were being bossed around by the white man.

Problem is, the French and English aren't up to it anymore. The Belgiums probably think they are, but that's the Belgiums for you.

So what is to be done? Perhaps the answer lies in the large corporates. Why can't Coke run South Africa, and Pepsi run Zimbabwe?

How about "They were better off with their traditional ruling structures," instead of being the lucky recipients of such rulers as Leopold II of Belgium and Kaiser Bill of Germany? They ended up with neat stuff they didn't want, considered to be gifts now by historical revisionists, but lost what had kept many of their societies functioning, albeit in a very, very different way from what we in the West are used to.

Hey, we used to burn the odd witch ourselves not so long ago and there must have been some reason for that, aside from the basic fun-factor.

Here we seem to have one group want to hold the Blacks on their laps as some sort of meta-children, free of guilt and responsibility and another who want to put them "back in their place," happy, well-fed office boys in a White-run colonial structure.

I think you shall find that the closer you get to this or that place the fewer ready answers you have, as our China non-expert candidly pointed out.

Here on Jet Blast you can only score the easy points by spouting off with glib and/or fashionable insights: A guy with 7 kids and no qualifications is the victim of American economic policy. The election troubles in Kenya had nothing to do with tribalism. Well, if you say so!

It might be so that my driver with his 7 kids would be better off living in his original tribal society, but there's no way today of knowing that. Africa was in a near-fatal, head-on collision with the West and there's no putting the traditional structures back together.

Meanwhile the corrupt elites have learned to play the "victims of colonialism, racism, whatever" game very, very well, so that knee-jerk Leftists look right past them to blame far-off Washington for the woes they have inflicted on their people.

Just as loony is the notion from the Right that the colonial era was somehow not a rotten edifice, designed primarily for the benefit of the colonial powers. Even in the States, when it was arguably beneficial, we just didn't want to be a colony. People want to run their own lives, even when a mess results.

I abhor politicians and this is one reason why.

Apart from the lot of them having their snouts in the trough, not one of the b*****ds has ever admitted to anyone they had got it completely wrong when they forced Ian Smith out of power and put this baboon Magabe in. i am sorry for mentioning baboons as it is degrading an animal. As far as I am concerned, the pricks in power at the time calling for Smiths head, have just as much blood on their hands as Mugabe.

What also galls me is the fact that not one of these morons including Owen (lord muck of t**d island) has ever had the decency to apologize they got it all wrong in 1980 and before.

Now you have that clown Brown in the UK saying the world has lost patience with Magabe. Oh really?! Give me a f****n' break! It was the party he supports that helped put Bob in power.

It was the party he supports that helped put Bob in power.

...along with Jimmy Carter, the current self-appointed ambassador to Hamas, and his party.

Chuks has made a good point, recolonializing is not the answer.

People are responsible for their government. It takes courage, sacrifice, and alas, blood to be rid of thugs like Mugabe, and their regimes. Enough of the sub-thugs who have enabled them to hold power and benefit from the corruption and graft, have to collectively with the people say, "No more", and have the courage to make it stick.

Rule of law, property rights, free market opportunity, and all those other platitudes of Western style pluralism, are the proven recipe for success in providing food, income, and general well-being.

Such as Bono and Sunray Minor, who I can respect as well-meaning and altruistic, can raise all the money we have and give it away, and it will not make a jot of long term difference unless the enervatingly corrupt structure of governance is dismantled.

Emergency aid to help recover from disasters is one thing, and should not be witheld. Long term welfare is another, which does more damage than good.

Germany, Japan, South Korea, and many other nations were left in ashes after WWII and the Korean War. They had few resources but for the industry of their populations. Aid didn't make them wealthy. It was rule of law, etc.

Congo (Zaire) and Zimbabwe, on the basis of resources and arable land alone, should be as wealthy as Switzerland. That they are not is not due to any failure of the wealthy nations or vestiges of the colonial past, but is due to the failure of the people of Congo and Zimbabwe to collectively insist on establishing and maintaining good government. Same holds true in Iraq or anywhere else.

but is due to the failure of the people of Congo and Zimbabwe to collectively insist on establishing and maintaining good government.

Crikey, looks like the UK is well and truly fu**ed as well then.

Sorry to pollute your bile with facts Mr *-anker, but I think you'll find that it was that well-known leftie Margaret Thatcher, together with her colleague Lord Soames who were instrumental in concluding the transition from Rhodesia to Zimbabwe in 1980.

The bottom line in Zimbabwe, as in so many other places is that western countries went to places around the world originally for their natural resources, and in doing that colonialised them. Whether they were benign or aggressive dictatorships is irrelevant, it stopped the natural development of modern political societies (I was going to say democratic societies, but that isn't necessarily a given). As a result there was in most countries a 'big bang' conversion to a local democracy which in many places meant that the people who ended running the place were those with the biggest guns, not those suited to smooth government. As such they were always looking over their shoulder for someone with a bigger gun - with the results we have seen.

This isn't to excuse thugs like Mugabe, but trying to say that the west is blameless in it all is also wrong. However that is ancient history, so the only course now is to wait for African states (and others) to evolve into better places over time. The 60 years or less that they have had so far is the blink of an eye in those terms - think how long it took for England to get from becoming a single entity to becoming a proper democratic parliamentary democracy - best part of 1000 years!

Helping things along with fair trade, and aid (that is used to help the local populations) and that sort of stuff will speed things up, but expecting anything like the systems that we know will be another 50 years or more at best.

The problem is the West is trying to put in place standards of conduct that are quite appropriate in New York or Paris but hardly apply to a largely agrarian society led by manipulative opportunists and their cohorts. The head on collision between the West and Africa was addressed in a column by David Bullard which got him fired. Seems the truth is a real bastard.

Mbeki and Mugabe must both be held accountable for the urine poor showing of their respective regimes.



More...

Police: Vessel is carrying arms
16/04/2008 13:08 - (SA)

Durban - The SA Police Explosives Unit confirmed on Wednesday that an uncleared Chinese vessel docked at the outer anchorage of the Port of Durban is carrying arms.

Customs revealed that the shipment was destined for Zimbabwe.

Inspector Nicholas Gunther of the SA Explosives Unit in Durban told Sapa the vessel - called 'An Yue Jiang' - was carrying a shipment of arms.

"We went there just now and they are not being allowed in," he said. "There was a problem with the documents they submitted and we have directed the matter to the Chief Inspector of Explosives in Pretoria, Senior Superintendent van Sittert and it may take days for them to get clearance," said Gunther.

And if the vessel does not get clearance, it would have to leave.

Gunther explained that if, for example, the ship was carrying 500 containers and only one container had not been cleared, the vessel would sill be allowed to enter the port.

Shipment headed for Zimbabawe

"They would be allowed to enter, offload those containers that have been cleared by the South African government and leave with those that had not been cleared."

The inspector added that a lot of the cargo onboard was destined for companies in South Africa.

Asked if he knew whether any was destined for Zimbabwe, he said he was not sure. "But if it was trans-shipment then it gets imported here and is sent by road or rail to neighbouring countries. We are not sure if that's what they are doing," he said.

Leonard Hadebe, head of Durban Customs told Sapa: "We have confirmed that the shipment was headed for Zimbabawe. It arrived at the Durban Harbour on April 14.

"Right now the ship is awaiting clearance. If they are carrying any prohibited or illegal goods, they will be detained by customs," said Hadebe.

National Ports Authority spokesperson Ricky Bhikraj confirmed that a vessel called 'An Yue Jiang' had entered the Port of Durban.

"We can confirm that there is an uncleared vessel (not cleared to enter port) by that name currently at the outer anchorage. The allegations are being handled by the various national security authorities," he said.

Noseweek editor Martin Welz earlier told Sapa: "The cargo ship was openly delivering a containment of arms for Zimbabwe."

Asked where he had obtained the information from, Welz said it was his own business.

Dennis Abrio of the national branch of the SA Police Service said he would comment on the matter once he had details.

KwaZulu-Natal police spokesperson Superintendent Vincent Mdunge said he could not comment.

With the slap on the wrist that Mbeki has got today in the Un and the now very much tougher stance being taken by the UK and others, I would suggest that Mugabe will be out of power by the end of May.

Well one can hope.

Any white South African farmer with any sense will sell up right now, for whatever he can get, and emigrate.

From another forum with acknowledgement to Contraxdog.

Dear Family and Friends,
Well never thought I would have to do this email do not know if it may be my last from our farm "Chidza".
At 3.30pm today a lorry load of so called Mugabe brain washed "war-vets" arrived at our gate to take over our land, equipment and pedigree cattle. This crazy action is occurring in a country where there is v little food being produced !
It is now 6 pm and they have been singing their war songs at our gate for three hours, the atmosphere is violent and more and more of them have arrived.
We managed to get our daughter Alison and her young son "Little John" into town and for now it is just John and myself, plus our dogs remaining in the house on the farm.
They have said that our labour will not work tomorrow . They have demanded that John must kill them a sheep, which John has flatly refused to do, so no doubt they will simply kill one for
themselves.
None of our paid labour will even attmpt to come to work tomorrow either!
Graham Richards who lives south of us is also under siege at the same time as us, so this siege of the last remaining whites is an orchestrated plan. The Goddards and Deidricks are in the same boat. They have already taken over Pa-Nyanda Guest Lodge, and Graham and his wife Callie are now in town.
Alison is at John sisters in Masvingo town and her husband Carl is expected back from Bulawayo tonight.

And...

Rogue Democrat

South Africa's Thabo Mbeki sides with Robert Mugabe against the people of Zimbabwe.

Tuesday, April 15, 2008; Page A14

FOR THOSE who argue that democracies are natural allies in international affairs, South Africa poses a vexing challenge. Since that country began serving a term on the U.N. Security Council last year, the government of President Thabo Mbeki has consistently allied itself with the world's rogue states and against the Western democracies. It has defended Iran's nuclear program and resisted sanctions against it; shielded Sudan and Burma from the sort of pressure the United Nations once directed at the apartheid regime; and enthusiastically supported one-sided condemnations of Israel by the U.N. Human Rights Council.

Now Mr. Mbeki's perverse and immoral policy is reaching its nadir -- in South Africa's neighbor Zimbabwe. The government of Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe is inarguably one of the world's worst: It has wrecked the economy, triggering food shortages that have driven millions of refugees into neighboring states, and used brute force to stem what would otherwise be overwhelming opposition. On March 29, the regime staged presidential and parliamentary elections and lost both by a wide margin. Rather than concede, Mr. Mugabe has refused to release the presidential vote count, called for a recount in parliamentary districts won by the opposition and launched another violent campaign to intimidate those who voted against him.

Every Western democratic government has condemned Mr. Mugabe's maneuvering, and even many Africans have appeared to lose patience with the 84-year-old strongman. That he remains in office is due mainly to Mr. Mbeki, who has used South Africa's considerable influence and prestige to bolster Mr. Mugabe. Last weekend, when Zambia's president called an emergency meeting of the Southern African Development Community, which he chairs, to consider the situation in Zimbabwe, Mr. Mbeki flew to Harare for a preemptive meeting with Mr. Mugabe, after which he declared, "There is no crisis." Then he traveled to the regional conference, where he prevented the group from criticizing Mr. Mugabe or supporting the opposition's demand that the election results be immediately released.

If there is good news in this sordid story -- and consolation for the proponents of an alliance of democracies -- it is that Mr. Mbeki's policy is increasingly unpopular in his own country. South Africa's free press has been scathing in its denunciations of the coddling of Mr. Mugabe, as have opposition party leaders. Even better, the new president of Mr. Mbeki's own African National Congress, Jacob Zuma, has distanced himself from the Zimbabwe posture, as have the party's secretary general and treasurer. Mr. Zuma defeated Mr. Mbeki in a party election in December and is the front-runner to succeed him when he leaves office in a year. So democracy may yet rectify a foreign policy that is shaming South Africa -- and preventing an end to Zimbabwe's misery.

Ampan

Any white South African farmer with any sense will sell up right now, for whatever he can get, and emigrate.

I know what you mean, but 'sell to who'??

Perhaps it's time to admit that Western liberal democracy just doesn't work outside the West. Zim, SA and a host of other disasters seem to point that way. Useful idiots rant outside embassies to get their chosen candidates into power before disappearing off the radar when their revolutionary heroes turn out to be insane dictators whose only link with reality is the fleeting glimpse they get of their countries going down the tubes as they fly overhead in their presidential jets.

Go figure...

Chinese soldiers seen in Mutare (Zim's gateway to the coast).:(
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/africa/04/17/saf.zimabwe.arms.ap/index.html

BOHICA

ANC to crack land expropriation whip
Realestateweb reporter
22 January 2008

Golf estates, foreigners, farmers and state-owned land in spotlight as ANC agrees to tough property restrictions.

About one in three farms must be redistributed over the next five years, and foreigners should face property restrictions with immediate effect.

Sapa
Published: 16 Apr 08 - 15:27

Property will be expropriated if it is in the public interest, according to the draft tabled in Parliament on Wednesday.

"Expropriation in the public interest... provides government with a tool to achieve... land reform and reforms to bring about equitable access to all of South Africa's natural resources," according to a memorandum attached to the Bill.

This would broaden the purpose of expropriation from the currently narrow term of "public purpose".

According to the Bill, public interest "includes the nation's commitment to land reform and to reforms to bring about equitable access to South Africa's natural resources".

The Bill would provide for "just and equitable" compensation, which had to strike a balance between the public interest and the interests of the land owners. A decision on the amount would take into consideration the property's current use, market value, the history of
its acquisition and purpose of the expropriation.

I am beginning to wonder whether Mugabe hanging on is a result of an exit plan gone wrong?

Could it be that his planned safe haven have told him to bugger off (but hopefully, kept his money).

What a heartwarming thought, frosty ... but, sadly, I suspect he has more than one safe haven lined up and more than one substantial cache of funds. The man is as cunning as a sh!t house rat and will not be easily trapped.

Besides ... he needed the time to write out all those new ballot results. :hmm:

Mugape has stolen so much money from the country over the years that he couldn't even spend the interest let alone the capital during his remaining years of life.

I feel sorry for him, he want's to retire peacefully and can do so in Zimbabwe as he's bound to negotiate immunity as part of any handover of power. Failing that he's welcome in Malaysia, where he often visits or France, which happily gives residence to former dictators to ease them out of power.

It's all those people in the military, police and government who will end up losing their positions of power and answering for past crimes that are preventing him from stepping down. They wouldn't even let him attend the conference in Lusaka incase he did a runner. Bob will get immunity and has enough money to live the rest of his life in luxury, not all of those below him are so fortunate and won't want the gravy train to stop and end up answering for past massacres.

Please, have some sympathy :yuk:

Listening to his speech today I couldn't help thinking that the man is suffering from dementia! That is unless of course the former colonial powers really are banging on the back door!!

I believe Bob has had a nasty dose of shall we say "STD", the one that starts with Sy, and part of the treatment has left him a bit short on tackle. Short being the word and short on marbles too.


So when you speculated that said Lunatic has dementia, then you are probably close to the truth.

I don't think Mr Mugabe is a lunatic with dementia.
He's just biding his time until British Airways sack
Willie Walsh, then he'll be set up to become the new
CEO at BA.:D

With thanks to Choppadriva on the other forum.

Just an example of what a once thriving economy has become. Room service menu at Harare Holiday Inn:-

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t66/choppadriva/HolidayInn-Harare2.jpg

To answer the original question - no it's not - pity there is no oil there!!
gAGS
E86

What the hell is wrong with the soup of the day?

Would the Trout be a Brown Trout?;)

I'm a little concerned about those First Fingers on the children's menu ... :uhoh:

SWT

All well and good but that menu is well out of date. March was last month, so the prices have probably doubled by now!

Unfortunate, but true....:(

The Zim banknotes have expiry dates and a lot of the country is devolving to a barter economy in order for people to feed their families.

Totally off his rocker...

Zimbabwe Arms Shipment Left In Limbo

Updated:22:07, Friday April 18, 2008


A ship carrying arms and ammunition from China to Zimbabwe has moved away from the South African coast after port workers refused to unload it.

The An Yue Jiang anchored for nowThe 300,000-strong South African Transport and Allied Workers Union (SATAWU) said it would not unload the weapons because they fear Robert Mugabe would use them to crack down on election opponents.

Three million rounds of AK-47 ammunition, 1,500 rocket propelled grenades and more than 3,000 mortar rounds and mortar tubes are among the cargo on the Chinese ship, according to copies of the inventory published by the Beeld newspaper.

The shipment was due to dock in the port of Durban where the weapons would be transported through the country to landlocked Zimbabwe. But the ship, called the An Yue Jiang, remained anchored outside the port before sailing away.

South African unions have been critical of President Thabo Mbeki's handling of the Zimbabwe elections and believe he should have taken a tougher line.

Mr Mugabe remains locked in an election stalemate with the opposition over the delay of results from a March 29 election that has raised fears of violence.

SATAWU General Secretary Randall Howard said: "We are concerned that the current stand-off could mean the arms would fall into the hands of those who want to use military force against the people of Zimbabwe."

"The South African government cannot be seen as propping up a military regime," he said.

A South African government spokesman said the country would not interfere in a trade matter between China and Zimbabwe.

Meanwhile, talks have been held between Zimbabwe's opposition with Kenyan Prime Minister Raila Odinga in a bid to seek support in the political crisis.

Robert MugabeMDC Secretary General Tendai Biti asked Mr Odinga to join other African leaders in questioning the integrity of the presidential elections.

MDC leader Morgan Tsvangirai claimed he had trounced Mr Mugabe in the polls, but state media hinted that the pair could be heading for a run-off.

Earlier Mr Mugabe denounced Britain by calling Zimbabwe's former colonial rulers "thieves" who want to steal his country.

The president's bitter attack was part of his first major speech since Zimbabwe's disputed elections.

Mr Mugabe, 84, in a speech to mark the nation's independence day, said: "Down with the British. Down with thieves who want to steal our country.

"We, not the British, established democracy based on one person, one vote democracy which rejected racial or gender discrimination and observed human rights.

"We are the ones who brought democracy to this country, we are the ones who removed the oppression which was here."

... one vote democracy which rejected racial or gender discrimination and observed human rights.
If anyone ever needed incontrovertible proof that Mugabe is insane ... there it is, right there.

You do have to wonder though at the mentality of your average zimbo. I mean. even by MDC's own figures it was not exactly a trouncing for ZANU given that almost half the voters still voted for the devil incarnate! Now I know, that there is a good deal of intimidation and fear but how on earth can anyone vote for Bob when he has brought Zim to its knees?

LONG LIVE RHODESIA!!!!!

Shouldn't that read Southern Rhodesia?
I thought Zimbabwe USED to be called that.
Wasn't Zambia Northern Rhodesia at one time?
Sorry, not being pernickety, it's just that my old
brain acts up at times.:rolleyes:
However I must agree that it's ODD that so many
of Bob's captive audience STILL vote for him

It's a tribal thing, he looks after some and terrorises others, some get fed, some don't.

STORMIN


Quite correct!! I was brought up in both. Lived in Northern and went to school
in Southern.
HeyHo them were the best days of one's life!!

PANDA

Pandamatenga - Whereabouts Northern were you?:ok:

I'm impressed that I got something right for once!
My kids will be impressed.
You must have seen some phenominal changes in
your time in Africa! isn't it such a pity that it all seems to have gone
wrong in so many ways?
I suppose that the days of the old "Imperialist
oppressors" were bound to come to an end, but
at what cost for the populations affected by it all.
I used to fly all over Africa,( and Asia, and the Far East,)
and I often used to think that the various famines and internal
squabbles that go on should have been stopped, in SOME way,
and useful, productive, work taken thier place.
The African continent could have produced enough food
to easily feed the rest of the World had the political will
been in place. Far too utopian a belief I'm afraid.
I've just remembered, Used to get some LOVELY steaks
in "Pete's Steak House", or something like that, in Lusaka.
Wonder if it's still there?:hmm:
Thanks for your input. Best of luck in the future.:ok:

Flame Lily

What a lovely user name!! One of my favourite flowers actually.
I was brought up in Kitwe from age 5 in 1956 and went to Boarding School in Bulawayo and then the UK.

Returned to Africa in 1970 and started flying all over southern africa till 1991.

Stormin

yes it's all very sad. I have not been back to Africa since 1993 and I can't see that changing. I went through Independence in Northern Rhodesia in 1964 and that was not too dramatic but of course Southern Rhodesia was another story. I weep for all the wasted loss of life in the war there which really just postponed the inevitable!! I actually flew into Vic Falls the day after they hit the motel there. All quite exciting but sad nonetheless.
Lived in Lusaka for a year but spent all free time on the golf course!!
Regds
Panda

PANDAMATENGA - I'm a Kitwe gal!!:ok: Did you know any Air Botswana crew at all flying all over Africa?:)

its not that surprising that uncle Bob gets so many votes,after twenty eight years of indoctrination into the cult of Comrade Robert Mugabe the surprise is that he got so few.surely a sign that his days are numbered? after all it seems as if he cant even rig an an election properly any more!

Recently finished reading "The Elite" by Barbara Cole, which deals with the expoits of the Rhodesian SAS during the conflict.

Something I found of particular interest was her analysis of the final months of UDI and the attempts to out-manouver Mugabe including intensive preparations for a military coup should Mugabe look like he was about to win the election. Of course, he did, but the orders for the coup were never given which gave rise to the belief that it had all been a huge con job to keep the military quiet until it was too late.

There had been an attempted assassination of Mugabe during the election campaign that appears to have been thwarted by the efforts of a British intelligence agent who had operated inside the Rhodesian high command for the duration. He certainly gave early warning of attempts on Nkomo's life and other military operations outside of Rhodesia.

Cole also quotes extensively from an American academic, Dr Richard McCormack, who analysed the Lancaster House conference and subsequent election and whose conclusion was that the British had basically conned all parties but in the end outsmarted themselves when Mugabe was elected. The campaign of intimidation by Mugabe in the election campaign was rife. Campaign workers for both Nkomo and Muzorewa were murdered by Mugabe supporters. A Nkomo candidate was murdered by having hot coals forced down his throat by a Mugabe supporter.

However, some of Cole's most strident criticisms are reserved for the leaders of the Rhodesian UDI government in that they failed at every opportunity to bring about a moderate change to black majority rule until it was far too late. There was a mindless optimism in the white administration that something would turn up that would allow it all to continue. She asserts that from 1972 only a political solution would work and that continual reliance on the military could only defer the inevitable but the government never looked like accepting the inevitable until they were warned by treasury officials that there was no money to continue the war.

I sometimes think it is remarkable how events long past continue to come back and haunt us today. Rhodesia/Zimbabwe is merely one in a long list. We seem to continually want to reinvent the wheel.:sad:

Incidentally, should what I have written already been posted, I apologise, for I have not taken the time to read all previous posts.

A good post.

However may I point out that the world backed the wrong horse.

Instead of the billions being given, therefore wasted since "independence" and the rest transferred to Switzerland, while most of the country starved. Would it not have been better to have had Northern Rhodesia, Southern Rhodesia and South Africa, protected with those funds?

Even during UDI and the civil war, for the most part, all citizens were better off. There was certainly no starvation in Southern Rhodesia up until 1980 to speak of. Rhodesia was a lovely country, now look at it!

I think If N, S Rhodesia could have held out and were given the proper support from the rest of the world, these 3 countries would not be in the mess they are today.

I hope the do gooders and the PC brigade stand back and have a good look at what they presided over. Any of you care to comment? No didn't think so.

The above is why I will never donate to any charity, apart from the odd christen organization. I much prefer to apply my charity direct when I am in the third world, as I then know it hasn't fallen into the wrong hands. If I wanted part of my hard earned saving to go to a Swiss bank account, before or after it reached Africa I would open my own, provided I could afford it.

Mugabe and his thugs have won the first of 23 seats where a recount was forced by the ruling regime.

Quelle surprise....:rolleyes:

I think it's an utter crying shame, what's happening to what used to be countries in southern Africa.

Personally, I couldn't give a rat's arse what happens to the "native" Africans. Maybe I should, but I'm not a saint or a perfect human being. Sue me.

I do care about what happens to the Rhodesians. They're my people. I was talking to one today. He manages a vineyard not far from me. He's a top bloke. There are not a people on the face of God's earth who are nearer to New Zealanders, in terms of heritage, outlook, attitude, history, and values, than white Rhodesians. They're way closer to us even than the Ockers (don't worry, I still love you).
I do care about what happens to the South Africans (and yes, I do mean white people. Sue me again. I couldn't give a toss.)

I've said it before and I will say it again, Africa is no place for human beings. The place is stuffed. Even without the UN, Africa wouldn't have a future as a continent of countries in the manner of the rest of the world. They're just not interested.

Feck the place. Let's just get our people out, and leave it to the Chinese to colonise. They're already starting with Zim.

Happy in this instance to agree with Mr Wolf. The "giant enigma" that is Africa is beyond hope of rescue.

They're already doing a good job in Sudan from
what I can figure out Mate!:hmm:

Feck the place. Let's just get our people out, and leave it to the Chinese to colonise. They're already starting with Zim.
Oh no, they've had their claws in to Sudan and Angola for some time now, with other shiploads of weapons keeping the Sudanese Army well-supplied, and Darfur in tatters. They are making inroads in to Mozambique, and here's (http://www.nationmedia.com/dailynation/nmgcontententry.asp?category_id=25&newsid=121686) an opinion piece on the topic from Kenya, where China is prospecting for oil. :oh: .

The Chinese have been in Africa for at least 40 years now, if not longer. There is plenty of evidence that they moved in very soon after the colonial powers moved out.:uhoh:

The Chinese were of course strong backers of Mugabe whereas the Russians were backing Nkomo. Again it was very evident in the tactics the Rhodesian troops faced from the various terrorist groups.

Now, of course, the Chinese are very strong opponents of any attempt to intervene in a country where the problems are purely internal. After all, with their record of human rights within their own borders they wouldn't want to be accused of hypocrisy.:mad:

I have not read the whole of this thread yet so forgive me if this is out of place or has been asked before...

Would Africa be better off once again under British colonialism?

Not that we can even run our own country properly at the moment though has to be considered. I remember seeing quite a while back on arrse a discussion along similar lines that included various before and after pictures. You know the sort..once prestigious hotels now in ruins etc. I don't think any Africans were there to comment though so I don't know the validity.

Had we not given up our colonies then would Africa maybe be now similar to say..Australia?

*This is not intended as a "Rule Brittania" type post..I am merely asking those who would actually know.

Have been following this with some interest and this is set to be a disaster yet again.

It has been stated that troops from Angola are set to assist ZANU-PF should it be necessary. Wtahc this space :ooh:

Democracy, got to love it....:rolleyes:

SADC leaders apply pressure to Mugabe. Not far off the truth...:(

http://avcom.co.za/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=34321

Spot on, Mr. Twotter! :ok::ok:

The Chinese ship carrying weapons for Mugabe has docked in Lobito, Angola. It's also reported that the Angolan govt has authorised Angolan troops to assist Mugabe in quelling any civil unrest in Zim should they be required.

Any chance of Angola copping sanctions for this?

Yeah, riiiight......:rolleyes:

Old trick...............want to stay in power? Upset the people, they riot, declare 'State of Emergency'. Soldiers on the streets, lock up opposition.

Latest reports from Reuters state that Zanu-PF has failed to regain control following the partial recount, and still no word on the presidential result.

Just for the record:

Ian Smith, the man who was prime minister of Rhodesia during its 24 years of international isolation, was a devout Presbyterian who divided the world into neat compartments — good chaps (usually sportsmen and gentleman farmers), terrorists, communists and traitors. He took Robert Mugabe’s claim of being a Marxist-Leninist at face value. However, as he confessed in his remarkably candid autobiography, The Great Betrayal, the translation of ideology into the local idiom left him stumped: “I remember… speaking to one of [Mugabe’s]… ministers who had a university degree and was clearly no fool. ‘You are an intelligent person,’ I said. ‘How can you support a failed policy like Communism?’ After thinking for a few moments he replied: ‘It has nothing to do with the philosophy of Communism, which is foreign to us Black people. What appealed to us most… was the firm instruction that: Once you become the government, you remain the government for ever.”

Hmmmm....:suspect:

Trouble brewing if you take this in conjunction with a ship load of weaponry for Zim in the docks at Lobito.

Victory confirmed, says MDC

26/04/2008 13:22 - (SA)

Harare - Zimbabwe's opposition Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) said on Saturday it had retained a historic victory over President Robert Mugabe's ruling Zanu-PF party following a partial recount of ballots.

"The news we're getting is that the election result of March 29 has been confirmed. What we hear is that nothing has changed in all the constituencies," MDC spokesperson Nelson Chamisa told AFP.

The MDC has also said that at least 15 opposition supporters have been killed in political violence since elections last month.

"So far we have recorded 15 but the carnage is worse than that because of the iron curtain that has been imposed on the villages. People are being killed like flies and buried in the villages," said MDC spokesman Nelson Chamisa.

What strikes me as odd is that obviously either no attempts have been made by Mugabe´s gang to "cook the books" in the process of the recount, or those attempts have failed. Are/were they so confident in their supposed victory, or in their power to subdue the opposition, or are the rats leaving the sinking ship?

According to the BBC,
News agencies quoted Zimbabwe's Electoral Commission as saying results were unchanged in 18 of 23 seats where recounts had been completed.
BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7369072.stm)

The Telegraph quoted a Zimbabwe election observer as saying that the seals had been tampered with on all of the ballot boxes, that they had been slit.

It sure does seem unusual that this hasn't followed the usual pattern of blatant fraud and intimidation. Could it be that Bob just isn't getting the level of back-up he expected in this? I would assume that he's a bit disconnected from reality, never being given any bad news from his clique, so that he probably expected to be settled into his presidency-for-life again by now without any undue trouble.

There was an interview with no less than Jacob Zuma telling us that this carry-on is damaging to democracy, when I guess he should know about that. I can only hope that no one has to remind him of what he said in time to come.

I can see where this is going. Parliamentary votes remain an opposition victory. The Presidential still goes to Mugabe. So a deal is struck when the bloodshed becomes too much. Mugabe stays as President, the opposition gets Parliament. He dies in a couple of years, new elections, more violence.

Shamelessly nicked from the other site...

DID THE CHICKEN CROSS THE ROAD ?

Morgan Tsvangirai: Because it wanted a taste of life on the other side of the road. It was exercising its right.

Patrick Chinamasa: No. The chicken did not cross the road. In fact we need to verify whether in fact it was a chicken. As far as we know, the chicken is still there. It could have been an eagle. We have to wait until verification is done.

Didymus Mutasa: I do not think it crossed the road. If it crossed the road it's because the white farmer dragged it. But we cannot allow that to happen. It will have to come back.

Joseph Chinotimba: The kichen, no, chicken is a sell-out against the revolution. The `O' vets will have to eat it!

Robert Mugabe: The chicken will never be allowed to cross the road.
Not in my life time! Let those that run away to Bush and Brown do so.
Not my chicken! My chicken will never cross the road. It will never be colonised again!

Thabo Mbeki: Er ... uhm ... I don't see any chicken at the moment ... Er ... I think it is right for us to wait and see. Let things take the natural course. If... if... if it did cross the road we will be told officially. If it wants to cross the road we will see it when it crosses. There is nothing to talk about at the moment ... Er ... I don't see any problem right now.

Tendai Biti: We have irrefutable evidence from those who were at the road that the chicken has, indeed, without any shadow of doubt, crossed the road. I hereby declare that Chicken Huku Inkuku is now the legitimate resident of the other side of the road.

Bright Matonga: At the moment we know that it has not crossed the road, despite imperialist efforts to push it. We know they will try again and are now preparing to unleash the remaining 75% of our effort so that it can never be pushed again next time.

Nathaniel Manheru a.k.a. George Charamba: How can, a chicken, itself a hapless bird, be expected to cross the road unless it is pushed deviously and surreptitiously by the hand of the vicious and uncouth imperialists? The only chicken that can cross that road is a stooge, a puppet, an instrument of the West that will be rocket-propelled by the loud fart of Brown and Bush ... Icho!

Levy Mwanawasa: It knew the ground on that side was sinking like the Titanic. It had to cross.

General Chiwenga: It can't.

Commissioner-General Chihuri: It can't cross the road.

Gordon Brown: It was running away from Mugabe.

Jacob Zuma: I think it is important that we be told whether or not the chicken actually crossed road. That should be very easy to do.

Jonathan Moyo: Of course, the chicken crossed the road because it could not stand the nonsense on the other side. But the shameless securocrats will do everything in their power to prevent everyone from knowing that it, indeed, and unequivocally crossed the road.

Judge of the High Court: Whether or not it crossed the road is a matter for the officials to declare at their own time. They have the power to order a re-check and verification as to whether it crossed the road before they can make the declaration.

Zimbabwe Electoral Commission: We are not in a position to say whether or not the chicken crossed the road. There are some people who have complained that it probably wasn't a chicken at all and others saying it was being pushed or dragged against its will. We are currently considering whether to do a re-check before we can officially declare if the chicken crossed the road. We will take as long as we want to be fully certain that it was a chicken that crossed the road.

The Chinese Foreign Office: What road? There was no road!

Solid Rust Twotter

And you're surprised because.....?:confused:

Not surprised, merely disappointed.



Meanwhile, the carnage continues...:(

Teachers die in Zim bloodshed

01/05/2008 18:28

Two schoolteachers have been beaten to death in the latest wave of violence following Zimbabwe's general elections, the country's main trade union says.

10 Zim activists arrested
20 die in Zim violence - MDC
Zim army 'unleashing terror'

Mugabe and his thugs whinge about what might possibly be carried by light aircraft while more than likely smuggling in a huge cargo of arms to further oppress the Zim people themselves. This doesn't even take into account past dodgy operations to other African countries by Mugabe's regime.

Zim flight restrictions


Friday, 02 May 2008 12:54
HARARE - Zimbabwe's military junta has shutdown all airstrips in and
around Harare in a bid to limit the use of small private aircraft,
ostensibly because they pose a security risk.
The Zimbabwean on Sunday heard that orders went out a week before the
controversial March 29 poll that all airstrips be shutdown because of
"security concerns." The orders were renewed last Friday.
This is not the first time that government has placed restrictions on
flying.
The restrictions in Harare were enforced, sources said, after it was
rumoured that Movement for Democratic
Change president Morgan Tsvangirai was shuttling between Zimbabwe and
neighbouring countries using a light aircraft. The MDC has dismissed
reports of the alleged secret visits by Tsvangirai.
In the run-up to the general election, a helicopter that was due
to be used by Tsvangirai to access far remote places such as
Matabeleland North, was impounded by the authorities and the pilot
arrested but later released without charge.
The chopper had been chartered for Tsvangirai by exiled MDC
treasurer general Roy Bennett. Mugabe intimated at a rally then that
the helicopter could be used to bring in arms caches.
Civil Aviation Authority of Zimbabwe general manager Ben Ncube was
not immediately available for comment. But a senior CAAZ officials
confirmed the closure of the airstrips and the flying restrictions
saying this was for security reasons.
"I can confirm that this has been going on since the election as a
security measure but I do not have any other details," he said.
A week prior to the election CAAZ and the Airforce of Zimbabwe issued
a Notice to Airmen (NOTAM) instructing the closure of all airstrips
within a 25 nautical miles (46km) radius of Harare International
Airport with the exception of Charles Prince Airport in Mt Hampden
north-west of Harare.
The NOTAM was supposed to be in force until a week after the election
but security organs have ordered a renewal of the restriction, with
the latest coming last Friday. Aviation sources said the authorities
wanted to prevent all flying activity from any airstrip. Planes cannot
even be flown into Charles Prince to operate from there in future, the
sources said. The ban is adversely affecting farmers and business
people

Rumours in SA of ZANU-PF hit squads going after community leaders and dissenters in order to bring the populace around to a more kulturnyy way of thinking in advance of a run off election.:rolleyes:

God help us, we're heading down the same road here....:(

sOMEONE SHOOT UNCLE BOB, PLEEEEEAAAASE

45 mil Zim dollars to the USD a month or so ago. Now around 200 mil to 1 USD....


Zim dollar running out of zeros
May 06, 2008 Edition 4

Harare - In a sign of the growing worthlessness of Zimbabwe's currency, the country's central bank today introduced two new banknotes, a Zim$100-million note and a Zim$250-million note.

The launch of the new notes, which was announced on state television last night, comes barely a month after the Reserve Bank launched what has been until now the largest single note, Zim$50-million.


But with inflation running at over 165 000%, Zim$50-million no longer buys a loaf of bread.

Last night the Zimbabwe currency was trading at about Zim$200-million dollars to US$1.

But with inflation running at over 165 000%, Zim$50-million no longer buys a loaf of bread.

Please Please tell me where I can buy a loaf of bread...I have money..millions!

Zimbabwe: Minister Claims Controversial Chinese Arms Now in Country

SW Radio Africa (London)

Lance Guma

Deputy Information Minister Bright Matonga on Sunday claimed that the controversial shipment of arms from China, initially blocked by South Africa, Mozambique and Zambia, was now in Zimbabwe.

Responding to criticism of the shipment during a panel discussion on Iranian sponsored 'Press TV' Matonga is said to have derisively retorted, 'in any case that shipment is already in Zimbabwe.'

Press TV's 'Four Corners' programme hosted a debate between Matonga, Briggs Bomba from Africa Action, Zanu PF apologist George Shire and an unnamed journalist. Bomba spoke to Newsreel Tuesday and expressed his disappointment at how Angola, contrary to its official position, might have helped Mugabe's regime get their hands on the deadly cargo.

The Chinese ship 'An Yue Jiang' was carrying 3 million rounds of ammunition for AK-47's, 1500 rocket propelled grenades and 3000 mortar rounds and tubes. Pressure from trade unions and civil society groups in the SADC region ensured the ship spent weeks failing to get permission to offload. Emerson Mnangagwa, the man in charge of Zimbabwe's terror campaign through the Joint Operations Command, is said to have travelled to Angola and met President Eduardo dos Santos last week, in an effort to have the shipment allowed through.

Angola officially declined to authorise the offloading of the Zimbabwean arms shipment, but no one knows if they kept their word. The picture continues to get to murkier with other reports suggesting the Angolan President's jet, a Falcon 900, was sighted in Zimbabwe Tuesday evening. No further details were available. Malawi's Nyasa Times newspaper added to the speculation by claiming intelligence agents from Malawi had travelled to Angola to help clear the shipment on behalf of the Zimbabwean regime.

No surprises there then...:hmm:

Who wants to be a millionaire?

Here ya go. Notice it's a bearer cheque which means it probably won't be bought back by the bank should you wish to exchange it for hard currency. It also has an expiry date and is only printed on one side. Ain't Africa great? Everyone's a millionaire.:hmm:

http://avcom.co.za/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=34986&t=1

That's a brilliant idea SRT. One can use the other side to write your shopping list ....er....if there's anything to list that is.

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2008/05/08/0905_cartoon_gallery__600x358,0.jpg

This lunatic just doesn't give a stuff. Thought the US would have broken diplomatic ties by now though. May do some good if they maintain a presence in Zim to perhaps prevent things going too far off the rails (if that's at all possible).:(


US envoy in Zim stand-off

13/05/2008 15:30

Armed police have tried to prevent the US ambassador to Zimbabwe and several other diplomats from leaving a hospital where victims of post-election violence are being treated.

"Armed police have tried to prevent the US ambassador to Zimbabwe and several other diplomats from leaving a hospital where victims of post-election violence are being treated."


Perhaps if they duff them up a bit, that might be the spark that fires the gun? (the diplomats, that is)

http://www.box.net/shared/75svm8eww8

http://www.thezimbabwean.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12666:horror-in-zimbabwe&catid=31:top%20zimbabwe%20stories&Itemid=66

Not just Zim. The SA govt is doing its utmost to destroy what's left of what is possibly the last working infrastructure in Africa.

SA: Private Property Rights to End in July 2008 in South Africa

Date Posted: Wednesday 16-Apr-2008

Rapport newspaper writes today that from July 2008, all SA private property can be expropriated ( verb (of the state) take (property) from its owner for public use or benefit ) by ANC-regime after July 2008, when the new Expropriations Act goes into effect.

Any private property - not only land used for agriculture -- can be appropriated by the South African state 's ministry of public works. Effectively, this marks the end of capitalist-style private property
rights in South Africa . And all private-property owners will just have to accept any price offered to them by the government under this new law unless they are willing to engage in expensive law-suits to get the market-related price for their properties.

Effectively, this new law thus effectively ends all private-ownership
rights in South Africa . It includes ALL properties countrywide: if the ministry of internal affairs wants land for housing 'previously disadvantaged residents,
they can and undoubtedly will expropriate land owned by churches, banks, individual home-owners or commercial businesses.

Already the country has no agricultural land left in the legal sense since all agricultural land now falls under the jurisdiction of municipal boundaries countrywide. In 1994 when SA still exported agricultural products on a massive scale, it had 85,000 farmers using less than 7% of the total land surface. At the moment, less than 10,000 commercial farmers remain, raising crops on less than 0.75% of the total land surface. The country is now facing serious food
shortages for the first time in its entire recorded agricultural history since the mid-1600's.

Afrikaans newspaper report about new Expropriations Act:
Source URL: http://www.news24.com/Rapport/Nuus/0...296578,00.html

I think the best way to play the likely falling apart of South Africa is to buy platinum bullion.

Anyone see any holes in this strategy?

It's being proposed by an American?

This link:

Mugabe bullied by generals to cling to power (http://www.thezimbabwean.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12582:mugabe-bullied-by-generals-to-cling-to-power&catid=35:zimbabwe%20opinion%20and%20analysis&Itemid=64)

argues that five Zim generals have effectively taken over power because Bob no longer has the energy or will to fight. Fine looking fellows in those nice band uniforms full of tassels and braids (see article).

Theory is the generals want to negotiate their own deal to either continue in some powerful role or, as one suggested in April, split with a pile of dough before it all falls down in a pile. In this universe, Bob is mostly a pawn, not hardly a player.

Suppose they could just take him downtown and drop him off on a street corner when they're done with hím. Might leave a rope there as well.

Question is: are they playing to stay or planning to run?

In case anyone is still in any doubt that the SA govt is firmly behind Mugabe and his goons and are determined to take SA down that same route....

Cape Town - The permit for offloading weapons from the infamous Chinese arms ship and transporting them to Zimbabwe was granted because the government did not think that the weapons would add to the conflict in Zimbabwe.

This is what Minister of Local and Provincial Government Sydney Mufamadi said on Thursday in response to a question from DA MP Rafeek Shah about the controversial consignment.

Legal and moral issues over the government's decision to allow the weapons shipment to be offloaded were raised when Mufamadi had to answer questions from the Parliamentary Portfolio Committee on Defence.

The National Conventional Arms Control Committee (NCACC), of which Mufamadi is the chairperson, gave permission last month for the weapons consignment to be transported to Zimbabwe but actions by trade unions and the Durban civil community resulted in a court order preventing this.

"South Africa is monitoring the situation in Zimbabwe constantly. No one knows better than we do about what is going to hamper or help Zimbabwe," Mufamadi said.

"In light of the nature of the violence in Zimbabwe, these weapons will be of no consequence. We took that into consideration."

"In light of the nature of the violence in Zimbabwe, these weapons will be of no consequence. We took that into consideration."I wonder if the poor sods who are killed by these "inconsequential" weapons will take the same view.

More...

Zim warns US over hospital
Article By:
Sat, 17 May 2008 08:32

Zimbabwe has summoned US Ambassador James McGee for what the foreign minister on Friday said was a "first warning" after the diplomat visited victims of spiralling post-election violence in hospital.

"This summoning to the ministry of foreign affairs constitutes the first warning to the US ambassador that any interference in Zimbabwe's internal affairs will not be tolerated," Foreign Minister Simbarashe Mumbengegwi said in a statement, two days after the meeting with McGee.

"The government of Zimbabwe will not hesitate to invoke the relevant provisions of the conventions and protocols which govern the conduct of diplomatic relations between states."

According to the convention, diplomats can be expelled if they interfere in the internal affairs of their host country.

McGee, who has been in Zimbabwe since last year, this week angered Harare when he and other Western diplomats visited victims of political violence outside the capital without notifying authorities in Harare.

Mumbengegwi said that the envoy had failed to make prior arrangements with the foreign ministry about his visit.

"This was in violation of Zimbabwe's rules and regulations which require that diplomats travelling a distance beyond a 40 kilometres radius must make prior arrangements with the ministry of foreign affairs."

Mumbengegwi also said McGee made "politically-charged and inflammatory remarks" when he visited a local private clinic where some victims of political violence are hospitalised.

"This again constitutes interference in Zimbabwe's internal affairs."

This is not the first time Zimbabwe has clashed with a US diplomat.

In 2005, Harare also summoned the then ambassador Christopher Dell to warn him against "meddling" in the country's internal affairs after he accused Mugabe's government of corruption.

AFP

And the refugees/immigrants can't escape the violence in SA either...

Xenophobia is apartheid
Article By:
Sat, 17 May 2008 07:40

The xenophobia which fuelled recent attacks on residents in Alexandra and Diepsloot is the same as apartheid racism and is a crime, institutions across South Africa said on Friday.

The Gauteng African National Congress said xenophobia was no different from the racism of apartheid.

"In the same manner that we fought against racism, sexism and all forms of discrimination, we must fight against the hatred of foreign nationals."

The treatment of foreigners in South Africa has been highlighted by a number of xenophobic attacks in Alexandra and Diepsloot this week which left a number of foreigners homeless and stripped of their belongings.

The ANC said its leaders would be addressing public meetings across Gauteng this weekend to try and stop criminals using discrimination, hatred and fear to destabilise communities.

Witwatersrand University vice-chancellor, Professor Loyiso Nongxa, said South Africans' apartheid history should be a warning against xenophobia.

"Our memory of apartheid as an instrument of social exclusion should strongly warn us against all forms of division and exclusion, including the xenophobia that we are presently witnessing," he said.

"We should not take for granted any of the freedoms gained."

Calls on government to act

On Friday, the People Against Suffering Suppression, Oppression and Poverty (Passop) said many immigrants were undocumented or illegal not by choice but because government was not processing refugee applications fast enough.

"The refugees should not be punished for governmental shortcomings," said the organisation.

On Friday, Lawyers for Human Rights (LHR) said it was concerned that victims of the attacks continued to be arrested and detained by members of the police.

During attacks at Olifantsfontein on the East Rand, 32 foreign nationals were attacked, robbed of their belongings and told to leave South Africa by their attackers.

The police in response to these attacks proceeded to arrest these victims as they were unable to produce any documentation as to their lawful status in South Africa.

The people had since been transported to Lindela where they are being detained pending deportations.

LHR said the victims of attacks were being deprived of their right to lay complaints and criminal charges.

"Surely criminals must not be encouraged to attack foreign nationals because they know that they will most likely be deported before they are able to act at witness in a trial."

Ubuntu

The SA Jewish Board of Deputies said on Friday that South Africans should treat foreigners with ubuntu.

"As a people who have been the target of hate crimes, genocide and prejudice for centuries, the Jewish community appeals to all citizens of South Africa to treat the strangers in our land in the great spirit of 'ubuntu'," said Owen Futeran, the chairperson of the Cape Town council of the board.

The Commission on Gender Equality said it was very concerned about attacks focused on women, children and the elderly. It said it would monitor the assaults and particularly rape cases.

On Friday, the SA National Civic Organisation (Sanco) in Gauteng on Friday urged the police to arrest all criminals hiding behind xenophobia.

"They belong behind bars and sooner they go, the better," said spokesperson Lucas Qakazahe.

Sapa

There is a low level genocide/civil war under way in Zim and SA. The governments of Angola, Zim and SA are doing little to nothing to stop it by allowing this kind of thing to happen...

Chinese arms arrive in Zimbabwe
Sapa Published:May 17, 2008

http://www.thetimes.co.za/News/Article.aspx?id=768268

The weapons destined for Zimbabwe have arrived in Harare, The Weekender reported today.

The report said the Zimbabwean government confirmed that 3-million rounds of assault rifle ammunition, 3000 mortar rounds and 1500 rocket-propelled grenades - ordered from the Chinese government - had arrived in Harare.

The South African government denied media reports that it assisted in the delivery of the arms by fuelling the Chinese vessel, An Yue Jiang, that was transporting the arsenal.

The refueling of the Chinese vessel was performed at sea by the SA Navy, no doubt at the cost of the taxpayer. Aid and succour to Mugabe, no less.

Front page news in the West Australian newspaper this morning a horrifying image of a man who had been set on fire near Johannesburg. Mobs of people are targetting "foreigners" and Zimbabwean refugees, claiming that they are taking their jobs and their schools. South African president Mbeki says that the violence is "unacceptable."

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v511/BlueDiamond01/Zim001.jpg

The man seen behind the man on fire is a police officer trying to put out the flames with a fire extinguisher.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v511/BlueDiamond01/Zim002.jpg

Keep up the good work, Twotter!

Absolute madness....:(

http://avcom.co.za/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=35545

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3256/2518505505_aab05d681d_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3137/2518461549_ac7cf6452d_b.jpg

"Never a fist against them."
I suppose that's true in a twisted kind of way ... he's perfectly happy to raise his fist against the black people too. Even-handed in that regard, you could say. :(

This type of thing has been going on since the new dispensation in SA. Too late to stop it now. Mugabe has had people arrested and jailed for driving by the front of his residence and Nujoma's goons in Namibia have forced people off the road and shot at them. At least the average Joe has managed to get one good lick in here...


VIP driver punched in KZN crash
24/05/2008 22:57 - (SA)

Durban - A motorcyclist punched a KwaZulu-Natal provincial VIP driver on Saturday afternoon for driving into to back of another car and seriously injuring its occupant near Pietermaritzburg.

KwaZulu-Natal transport spokesperson Rajen Chinaboo, confirming the accident on the N3 near Camperdown, said Road Traffic Inspectorate officials at the scene reported that there "had been some sort of altercation".

However, he could not provide any details.

Sapa has learnt that moments after the accident a motorcyclist - who had apparently earlier been forced aside by the VIP Mazda 6 vehicle flashing its blue light - stopped at the accident scene and punched the driver before getting back onto his bike and driving off.

Police spokesperson Superintendent Henry Budhram confirmed that a VIP vehicle had been involved in an accident and that one person had been injured.

He said that he could "not confirm the altercation" but the circumstances surrounding the accident would be investigated.

Netcare 911 spokesperson Chris Botha said that paramedics at the accident scene reported that an eyewitness had stopped at the accident scene and also told police about the altercation at the scene.

Jaws of life

The driver of the Fiat Palio was trapped and the jaws of life were used to cut him free. He was taken to St Anne's Hospital in Pietermaritzburg.

The VIP unit usually transports the province's MECs, but the VIP driver on Saturday was not escorting anyone according to paramedics at the accident scene.

In April 2007 the Witness newspaper reported that its switchboard was flooded with calls from motorists who said they were pushed off the N3 by a blue-light convoy, identified as being that of ANC president Jacob Zuma.

It also reported at the time that a Pietermaritzburg man, Faizel Mooideen, had a rifle pointed at him and his family by security officers who tried to push them off a lane on the highway.

At the end of the same month a motorist used his cellphone to provide the newspaper with video footage of KwaZulu-Natal Premier Sbu Ndebele's convoy doing 160 kilometres an hour on the N3.

KwaZulu-Natal's transport MEC Bheki Cele later accused the motorist of being "a self-made, arrogant, non-accountable individual who purports to be a good citizen and I will dare to argue that he is also a racist".

He said at the time the motorist who filmed the convoy speeding at 160km/h had broken the law. Repeated demands to have the newspaper hand over the motorist's name were rejected by the newspaper.

Camperdown is about 25km from Pietermaritzburg.

The assumption here being that the person who filmed the incident was white. If you want racism look no further than the ANC govt.:hmm:

Anyone else getting the idea the great social experiment has failed?

Mugabe won't step aside - wife

29/05/2008 21:14 - (SA)

Shamva - Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe will never vacate his office for opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai even if he loses a run-off election next month, his wife said on Thursday.

Grace Mugabe told followers of her husband's Zanu-PF party that Tsvangirai's Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) would not be allowed to take power under any circumstances.

"Even if people vote for the MDC, Morgan Tsvangirai will never step foot inside State House," she said after meeting victims of political violence that has rocked Zimbabwe since the first round of voting on March 29.

"He will only get to hear about what it looks like inside State House from people who have been there. Even if Baba (Mugabe) loses, he will only leave State House to make way for someone from Zanu-PF."

The 84-year-old president, who has ruled the former British colony since independence in 1980, is to square off against Tsvangirai on June 27 after an inconclusive first round.

A warning to the MDC

Grace Mugabe, who is 40 years Mugabe's junior, accompanied her husband to the rural area of Shamva, northeast of Harare, for a tour of a homestead which was allegedly burned down by MDC followers.

"What we saw really touched us. We are not animals but humans. If you burn down someone's house you want to destroy their life," the president said.

"We want to warn the MDC they should stop this barbaric campaign of burning and destroying people's homes immediately."

While Mugabe has laid the blame for post-election violence at the feet of the MDC, the United Nations and human rights groups say that Zanu-PF is responsible for the lion's share.

Ahhh Grace. Bless her... She writes some of the material for satirist Pieter Dirk Uys. Silly girl...

Twotter, Nujoma hasn't been in power in Namibia for years... are you referring to Pohamba? :-)

S.

Nothing new, we always knew she was a money grubbing, lives for european designer shopping trips on the taxpayer bitch and he is a deranged murderous son of a bitch who really should be deaded. Will no one rid the world of this pox?

No info on Pohamba but I know Nujoma's goons used to run anyone in the way of his convoy off the road, some were even shot at. There was a report a few years back that a person had been killed for not getting out of the way fast enough IIRC.

Got pushed to the side by cops on bikes a couple of days ago to allow some ANC parasite to breeze through. One of the perks of being more equal than anyone else I guess.

Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe will never vacate his office for opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai even if he loses a run-off election next month, ...
So much for the democracy they all said they wanted then. What an absolute bloody joke. When the opportunity presents itself to bleed a country dry, democracy takes a back seat. Zimbabwe is bleeding to death and Mugabe will not let go until the last breath has been taken and the last drop of blood squeezed out.

Zimbabwe is bleeding to death and Mugabe will not let go until the last breath has been taken and the last drop of blood squeezed out.

I'm still thinking that Mugabe is toast already. Whenever his generals and similar supporters are able to broker an exit deal to save their own skins, they will deliver up his head and his sweetie's on a platter, but not until the bank transfers have cleared and safe passage out of Z is assured.

With this latest round of fiasco, Zim's so-called government is fast running out of friends in the world outside, and it seems to be loosing grip on the (economic) means to exert control inside.

I'll wager 5 billion (Zim$) they're all out of view or 6-feet under within a year from now... any takers? What would others say the odds are?

Troops told to vote for Mugabe
31/05/2008 22:05 - (SA)

Harare - A senior army officer has told soldiers in Zimbabwe's 35,000-strong army that they have to vote for President Mugabe in next month's run-off in presidential elections, according to the state-controlled Herald on Saturday.

It quoted Major-General Martin Chedondo as saying that voting for Morgan Tsvangirai, the leader of the Movement for Democratic Change, would be to "sell out to the British and American imperialists".

Tsvangirai won the most votes in the presidential election on March 29 but was denied outright victory because, according to official results - which were withheld by the state-run electoral authority for five weeks - he failed to win more than 50 per cent of the vote as prescribed by electoral law.

"The constitution says the country should by protected by voting, and on June 27 in the presidential run-off, pitting President Mugabe against Morgan Tsvangirai, we shall therefore stand by our commander in chief (Mugabe's ceremonial position)," Chedondo said at an army marksmanship contest on Friday.

"Soldiers are not apolitical," he went on. "Only mercenaries are apolitical. We have signed an agreement to protect the ruling party's principles of defending the revolution. If you have another thought, then you should remove your uniform."

He said soldiers were "faced with the choice to protect the country's revolution and heritage or sell out to the American and British imperialists by voting for Tsvangirai".

The Herald said Chedondo was standing in at the function for Lieutenant-General Phillip Sibanda, the commander of the army.

Before the March elections, General Constantine Chiwenga, the commander of the armed forces declared that he would refuse to salute Tsvangirai if he won the presidential ballot.

And the head of the prison services, Paradzayi Zimondi, ordered prison officers to vote for Mugabe and his Zanu-PF party, while this week police commissioner-general Aguustine Chihuri indirectly referred to Tsvangirai as "a puppet".

However, Chedondo's remarks were seen as the most blatant show of determination by the armed forces to keep the 84-year-old Mugabe in power.

Military sources say senior army officers enjoy great privileges and perks, including large farms, cheap access to hard currency and free vehicles, and most of them are wealthy businessmen. - Sapa-dpa

A puppet? The irony escapes this person completely as he tells others how they should vote.:hmm:


Two Zanu-PF members killed in Zimbabwe

June 01, 2008, 07:00

Zimbabwe's state-owned television said yesterday that two ruling Zanu-PF party members had been shot dead by suspected opposition supporters in a rural district that has been gripped by political violence. The opposition Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) denied any involvement in the shooting.

The MDC says more than 50 people have been killed in election-related attacks since March, blaming elements within Zanu-PF for the bloodshed. President Robert Mugabe says MDC supporters are responsible.

The Zimbabwe Broadcasting Corporation (ZBC) said two ruling party members were shot dead yesterday in rural Mutoko district, one of Zanu-PF's strongholds about 140 km east of Harare that has witnessed several cases of political violence in the aftermath of March 29 general elections.

"Suspected MDC supporters shot and killed two Zanu-PF women's league members in Mutoko ... raising fears that they could have been targeted as the MDC intensifies its campaign to intimidate ruling party supporters," ZBC said, adding police had confirmed the shooting and were investigating. There was no immediate comment from the police.

MDC spokesman Nelson Chamisa rejected the charges saying "that is a lie". "Where will our people get guns. That is utter rubbish," he said. Chamisa said police in Hwange and Victoria Falls town in western Zimbabwe had earlier stopped MDC leader Morgan Tsvangirai from addressing his first rallies since his return from South Africa last week.

The MDC leader is trying to galvanise support across party lines as he prepares to face Mugabe in a June 27 presidential run-off election. Tsvangirai won a first presidential poll in March but fell short of the margin needed for outright victory.

The opposition and rights groups have accused Mugabe and his officials of trying to intimidate opponents ahead of the vote. They also fear that his government will rig the results of the poll, as it is accused of doing in past elections.

Mugabe and Tsvangirai say they are confident of victory. "I spoke to him (Tsvangirai) and he told me he was prevented from holding the rallies. The police told him that they were instructed that rallies would be held after the runoff," Chamisa said. - Reuters

Disarming the citizenry is the first thing Mugabe did when he took power, along with other notables such as Amin and Hitler. The current SA regime are in the process of trying to do the same. No despot wants an armed populace to oppose him.

Heard recently he was being treated for Prostate Cancer? So there really is an end to the p***k!

Spell his name backwards and you are in Lancashire!:)

GGR

Oh well. Suppose we can still laugh at ourselves...

http://www.hayibo.com/articles/view/784

GGR, Please don't associate Ebagum Trebor with Lancashire!
More likely to be Yorkshire!
Thank you very much:)

Storminnorm:

One is offended that God's Own Country should be abused in such a way. 'Tis definitely the west side of the Pennines which is alluded to . :=

Sorry s'land, it's just that the money grabbing aspect of the
dear chap happen to fit nicely with the east side attitude
of " If tha ever does owt fer nowt, do it fer thy sen."
definitely not a Lancastrian attribute.;)

I thought it was "Owt for nowt and if tha' can get tuppence change" - a motto for all dictators like Mad Bob.

The time for him to take his 'Ceaucescu' exit is getting nearer; but it isn't beyond the wily old sod to cash his chips in while he's still ahead, leaving his followers to take the medicine on his behalf after the State Funeral.

They that run the show in Zim won't let him "cash in his chips"
at the moment. There's still a bit more to be wrung out of the
situation yet.
As soon as the goons in the flash uniforms think that the end
is nigh they'll drop him like a hot potato and scarper ASAP.
The tosser was on the T.V. today, attending a World Leaders
conference on FOOD production! I'm amazed at the sheer GALL
of the no good little turd!
I did note that he wasn't invited to the formal dinner.
He'd probably have nicked it all.:yuk:
I just watched him again and I am amazed at his attitude.
Britain and the U.S. are to blame for all Zimbabwe's problems
because we are determined to undermine his country.
It's just so ridiculous. But true in his diseased head.
He just cannot see that this once beautiful country, that his
actions have brought to it's knees, is just being totally ruined.
I suppose that the only answer to it all is for him and his team
to go. But they won't unless forced out by others.
It's all so sad.
One of the comments someone made earlier in either this thread,
or an earlier one, to the effect that had there been oil in Zimbabwe
the problem would have been sorted out ages ago is totally true.
But as it is now, no-one cares.:{
I've just read that the British Govt are making plans to revoke
Mugabe's honorary knight-hood, given to him for his contribution
to Anglo-Zimbabwean relations in 1995.:D

Zimbabwean police have stopped several US and UK diplomats as they were trying to investigate political violence.
US ambassador James McGee told the BBC there had been a bid to force their convoy off the road in Bindura after they refused to go to a police station.
He said their tyres were later slashed and a Zimbabwean driver working with a US security official was beaten up.
(from:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7438275.stm )

There used to be the character of the ugly n199er, personified by people such a Nkruma, Idi Amin and Mobutu, people who were living proof that blacks could not rule themselves. Now, despite all efforts at raising global education levels, we end up with sh1ts like Mugabe and Mbeki. When will this madness stop?

G-CPTN,

A line has certainly been crossed. The Americans are doing their nut.

What could be extremely useful is, if some way could be found to prevent the evil bastard from ever returning to Zim from Italy.

Mugabe himself is now a puppet, but is usefu to the military junta that now effectively runs the country, which is owned by China. Zimbabwe will shortly become the Burma/Myanmar of Africa...

...and we will all shake our heads, again.

So Al Fakhem, since black people are incapable of ruling themselves I presume you'd be even more aghast if one were to become president of the US? Better slink back off into the woods to oil your piece and prepare for the revolution eh..

since black people are incapable of ruling themselves

Incapable of ruling themselves? No.

Incapable of maintaining what we would describe as an effective and sustainable economy, and a free and fair democracy, within what we would define as a modern nation state, well, um, you know, I would posit that the present situation in Zimbabwe is proof positive of just exactly that.

Or is something or someone else to blame for the breadbasket of Africa being turned into a basket case in less than three decades? As Lydia says;

I think Al Fakhem is implying Africans, i.e Black Africans, and if so it would be a relatively true statement. The tribal conditioning/culture in Africa is not conducive to running a country that is home to people from many different often still warring tribes. Someone has to be in charge, so which tribe will he be from? His tribe (and those with a very close allegiance to it)get the perks, money and provide the security, the rest get crapped on.

Which about sums it up, really.

But I know! Let's let bitter and twisted ignorant idealist western liberals, who think all realists are racists, decide how everything should be done, and then we'd be...right where we are now.
:hmm:

Arguing "realism" just doesn't cut it, it's a case of contempt for Africans in general.

Someone has to be in charge, so which tribe will he be from? His tribe (and those with a very close allegiance to it)get the perks, money and provide the security, the rest get crapped on.

Which tribe? The security services. To what part of Russia would does the above statement not apply? Or do average citizens manage to scrape enough together to buy football clubs in London?

An effective and sustainable economy, and a free and fair democracy, within what we would define as a modern nation state

A monoculture economy, rigged elections and inheritance of power, within a gangster oligarchocracy. Yep, Russia again.

My realism would suggest that it's not just Africans that have the monopoly on poor governance. Cherry picking ones arguments to single out blacks strikes me as the bitter and twisted part.

Regarding Zimbabwe:

Someone has to be in charge, so which tribe will he be from? His tribe (and those with a very close allegiance to it)get the perks, money and provide the security, the rest get crapped on.

Sounds to me like that tribe were white Europeans. Ours got replaced with theirs. Get over it.

Western liberal democracy has been tried in Africa. It doesn't fit in with the local culture and probably never will. Until the West figures this out and stops trying to force it on a culture which doesn't accept even the basic premise of everyone being equal, they will continue to be disappointed at the behaviour of African leaders. It's Africa and African rules are in force. The sham of democracy was used merely to seize power. After that the pretense of democracy is no longer needed.

'We will burn diplomats' - 2008-6-5 16:37
Washington

Two US diplomatic vehicles and one from Britain were attacked in Zimbabwe and the diplomats detained on Thursday, US ambassador James McGee told CNN.
"My people were stopped, detained," McGee, US ambassador to Zimbabwe, said by telephone from Harare.

"The police put up a roadblock, stopped the vehicles, slashed the tires, reached in and grabbed the telephones from my personnel.

"And the war veterans threatened to burn the vehicles with my people inside unless they got out of the vehicles and accompanied the police to a station nearby," he said.

McGee said any dispute with the diplomats should have been taken up with the ministry of foreign affairs.

"Instead in this lawless society that we call Zimbabwe the police decided to take action into their own hands and detaining my people for almost five hours now," he said.

The White House denounced as the attack as "outrageous" and "completely unacceptable".

US, UK convoy attacked in Zim
05/06/2008 16:18 - (SA)

Harare - The US Embassy says its diplomats and colleagues from Britain were attacked as they tried to investigate political violence in Zimbabwe.

Embassy spokesperson Paul Engelstad says the group is still being held after being stopped at a roadblock in a rural area north of Harare.

He says US Ambassador James McGee is pressing Zimbabwean officials to release them.

McGee was not with them.

Engelstad says the attackers beat up a US Embassy staffer and slashed the tyres of some cars in the convoy.

'Mugabe ordered envoy attack'
05/06/2008 17:03 - (SA)

Harare - Zimbabwean police detained US and British diplomats on Thursday, slashing the tyres of their cars after they visited victims of political violence ahead of a presidential election run-off, the US embassy said.

The US ambassador blamed the attack on President Robert Mugabe's government.

Former colonial power Britain and the United States accuse Mugabe of a campaign of violence and intimidation against supporters of opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai in the run-up to the vote.

The attack took place in Bindura, 80 km north of Harare, a US embassy spokesperson said.

"Police put up a roadblock, stopped the vehicles, slashed the tyres, reached in and grabbed telephones from my personnel, and the war veterans threatened to burn the vehicles with my people inside unless they got out and accompanied police to a station nearby," US Ambassador James McGee said in an interview on CNN.

"We do believe this is coming directly from the top," he said.

Run-off

Tsvangirai beat Mugabe in a March 29 presidential election but failed to win enough votes to avoid a second round.

The opposition says 65 people have been killed since the first round of voting by supporters of Mugabe's ruling Zanu-PF party who want to extend his 28-year rule. Mugabe blames the opposition for the violence.

Tsvangirai was detained for nine hours on Wednesday but continued his campaign on Thursday.

South Africa said it planned to begin sending election observers to Zimbabwe this week as part of a larger mission sent by the Southern African Development Community, adding that it was essential that the election be fair and transparent.

Simba Makoni, the ruling party defector who came third in the first round called on Thursday for the run-off to be scrapped to prevent further bloodshed.

Makoni won over 8% and those who voted for him could be crucial in deciding the contest.

Europeans? Not necessarily. Many came from families that had been in Africa for generations. For all their faults the old regimes of Rhodesia and SA ran more stable and less violent societies than are now being seen under the new regimes. It appears the pendulum has swung too far, to the point where limited rights with heavy penalties for stepping out of line (which applied to both white and black) have been replaced with the right to do and act as you please with no consequences.

Arguing "realism" just doesn't cut it, it's a case of contempt for Africans in general.

Now would that refer to white Africans, or black Africans, or Arab Africans, or Indian Africans, or all Africans, and are we getting our racism mixed up with our ethnicism?

A monoculture economy, rigged elections and inheritance of power, within a gangster oligarchocracy. Yep, Russia again.

Hmm, very probably, and the same could apply to Britain 200 years ago. What either of them has to do with Africa today escapes me, as does any relevance which either may have to this debate.

Sounds to me like that tribe were white Europeans. Ours got replaced with theirs. Get over it.

Yes, granted, and that's all well and good if all you want to do is point up the fact that the evil whities "got theirs"; but unfortunately, the poor blackies from the wrong tribies got theirs as well, and they're still getting it, and more's the point, they'll probably continue to get it until they don't exist anymore.

The point of difference is that when the evil whities were in charge, the poor blackies from whatever tribies were all pretty much in the same boat. They were poor, and repressed, and didn't have as much as the whities. I don't dispute any of that. But y'know, they did have more than the poor blackies in many of the countries around them; not ideal, true, but then this isn't an ideal world.

Why didn't they have more? I don't know. Have you asked them why they didn't bother inventing or evolving any of the trappings of Western society for themselves, before the European colonists came along and did it for them (or even to them)? Surely they were more than capable of doing so, had they held such desire; after all, we humans are all equal, now aren't we?

They had clothes, and education, and basic sanitation and medical care, and a Police force which would at least pick up the phone - or the rhino horn, or whatever they had - regardless of who was on the other end.

Now, of course, if they're from the wrong tribe, they don't have any of that stuff; but they do still have repression and poverty. Isn't it so much better now that people who are sh1tting on them are the same colour as them? I bet they feel greatly relieved about that.

If you're happy about Africans - black Africans - living in the stone age, being raped and murdered and starved and massacred and denied their basic human rights, and all of this happening just because one tribe and not another is in charge, without regard for the niceties of modern civilisation or the mores of modern enlightenment, then that's fine. But if you want black Africans to enjoy at least some of the fundamental benefits of living in what we would call a "country", with its associated social and democratic structures, then please offer us an example of somewhere in Africa where this happens with tribal black Africans in charge.

See it's fine to say 'yah boo sucks' to the whities if you're happy about Rhodesia going down the toilet, but it's not fine if you do actually give a toss about the black people who still live in Zimbabwe, and frankly I'm not sure where your primary interest lies here.

P'raps you could enlighten us. From where I'm sitting you come across as a fairly extreme sort of a racist.

If you're happy about Africans - black Africans - living in the stone age, being raped and murdered and starved and massacred and denied their basic human rights, and all of this happening just because one tribe and not another is in charge, without regard for the niceties of modern civilisation or the mores of modern enlightenment, then that's fine. But if you want black Africans to enjoy at least some of the fundamental benefits of living in what we would call a "country", with its associated social and democratic structures, then please offer us an example of somewhere in Africa where this happens with tribal black Africans in charge.

Sure, how about Sudan? Erm no, we've got the Arabs butchering the black Africans there. My point is that poor and repressive governance is not the exclusive domain of black Africans. Your fixation is on colour, and it's misplaced. You're taking association for causality.

For instance, there's a new campaign here in the UK concerned with a recent spate or awareness of knife crime. One of the headlines is that "you're more likely to get stabbed if you carry a knife yourself". Why would that be?

In my opinion it's not because of the of the knife itself. I could put one in my coat and go about my business today, and I wouldn't be any more likely to get stabbed than were I not to carry one. You're more likely to be stabbed because carrying a knife can be an association, not a cause - of life in certain areas, just as is driving a run-down car, poor schools, cheap food and excess protein, and all the other things that are markers of life in run-down estates. Life in a run-down estate means stabbing is more likely, if you're in the habit of carrying a knife it would suggest you'd be more likely to live on those streets, it would suggest you have a tendency toward trouble, and therefore you get stabbed. Knife or no knife.

It's the same with colour or ethnicity as you're calling it now. Colour is an irrelevance - just as the knife is an irrelevance. They're both associations, not causes. Tribalism would be a better place to look. As in Russia, the Balkans, Iraq, and yes, black Africa.

Quote:
since black people are incapable of ruling themselves

Incapable of ruling themselves? No.

Incapable of maintaining what we would describe as an effective and sustainable economy, and a free and fair democracy, within what we would define as a modern nation state

So as I see it, it's got nothing to do with black people, or else you wouldn't have somewhere like Senegal for example. Or for example, Turkmenistan or Pakistan, where black people are thin on the ground. People of any colour are quite capable of good or bad governance, what ruins things are tribes - sectarianism.

Many black Africans are tribal, which lends itself to bad government. Is it the black bit or the tribal bit to blame?

You've explained that you think black people are "Incapable of maintaining what we would describe as an effective and sustainable economy, and a free and fair democracy, within what we would define as a modern nation state"

And I've tried to explain that like the knife, the colour is an association, not a cause.

I'm afraid that you are absolutely right if you place tribalism
at the heart of the problems not only in Zimbabwe, but all
over Africa, and there is not a lot that can be done to stop
it.
I used to spend a lot of time in Africa, flogging around with
old freighter aircraft, and spoke to many of the locals that
provided support of one form or another to the operation.
The question of tribes and tribalism frequently came into
the convesation, and I often heard the guys say that they
found it a bit strange that the, mainly white, crews on the
aircraft never seemed to be bothered about which part of
the country,or the World, the others came from. ( Apart from
the standard run of the mill piss taking.)
To them it was strange that we didn't have major tribal
differences.
I think a lot of today's problems in Africa stem from the
days when people just drew long lines on maps and did
not pay any attention to who was living where, and just
carved it all up to suit themselves, regardless of the poor
Africans left on whatever side of the line suited the imperialist
Masters.
Too late to change it now though, and people will just have to
carry on suffering until the "leaders" in Africa can come up
with a solution. Goodness knows how long that will take, or how
many people will suffer.:sad:

Dustbin, for what it's worth - read the comment I was replying to in the first place. The one where Al Fakhem mentioned the character of the ugly n199er along with living proof that blacks could not rule themselves

My reply was in light of that, and nowhere have I mentioned racism nor accused anybody of it, or claimed some inveterate inability of anyone to govern themselves.

Mugabe's latest salvo (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23825308-2703,00.html) in the continuing election farce.

...meanwhile back in Harare. Does anyone have an estimate as to how long Air Zim can keep flying?? and how does the inflight meal rate against other carriers? :E

Caudillo, I don't think you're reading me right, nor are you being completely consistent in your arguments.

I mean I did say then please offer us an example of somewhere in Africa where this happens with tribal black Africans in charge.

and while Senegal may (or may not) be a shining example of a successful African nation, its prevailing culture is Muslim, not tribal African.

Then you say Your fixation is on colour, and it's misplaced and in the next breath, turn around to Lydia and proclaim nowhere have I mentioned racism nor accused anybody of it which to my mind appears somewhat contradictory.

In answer to My point is that poor and repressive governance is not the exclusive domain of black Africans my response would be to say that I couldn't agree more; plenty of White, Arabic, Hispanic, and Asian Governments are poor and repressive in their performance. However, I do contend that tribal black African Governments are exclusively bad, poor, and repressive, and I still challenge you to cite an example of one which isn't.

We are not arguing about tribalism or sectarianism. I agree with you about that, as it is the point I have been making. I couldn't give a wet slap about anyone else's race or colour. The problem is entirely down to culture.

And on that note, as far as Britain and the modern knife culture is concerned, well what do you expect when you coup 60 million people up on a wet little island and feed them high energy junk? Of course they're going to get cabin fever. Now back in the Good Old Days, when Britain had an Empire, her frustrated youth were regularly packed off in ships to Farawayistan, where their natural (and possibly genetic) agressive tendencies were put to good use, conquering and subduing the locals, to the greater good and economic gain of the aforementioned Empire. The process had the dual advantages of providing a release for Anglo-Saxon violent proclivities, and keeping their numbers in check. History records that it worked rather well.
;)

Blue Wolf,
Very Good, trouble is so much energy is being consumed to rewrite history to get down to the lowest common denominator.

However, I do contend that tribal black African Governments are exclusively bad, poor, and repressive, and I still challenge you to cite an example of one which isn't. Botswana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botswana)

Very good ORAC, and yes Botswana is a good example of a reasonably peaceful African nation.

However according to The New York Times (http://http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE3DC1530F935A25756C0A966958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1) it may not be entirely representative;

But some African scholars, including some in Botswana, are asking how much of a multiparty state Botswana really is and, given its small population and relative tribal unity - 95 percent of its people are of the Tswana ethnic group - how much of a model it can be for larger, more diverse countries. The argument in favor of one-party states in Africa often revolves around the single party being a unifying force for discordant and competitive tribes.

...so tribalism may not be such an over-riding influence, if there's almost no-one else to pick on.

You only asked for one example (http://www.rosswalker.co.uk/movie_sounds/sounds_files_20080520_1013824/hunt_for_red_october/verify1.wav).... :cool::cool:

Yes, just ONE example, but MAINLY one tribe. Significant or not?

Interesting point about the white guys all getting along in Africa despite being from different countries. Part of that might be that we are outside our different countries so that we have to stick together. Back home among our "tribe" we might revert to putting down the "outsiders" as usual.

I got a surprise once in Nigeria when my co-pilot (from Lagos) told me that he would not be able to do an unplanned night-stop in Kano. I gave him the standard speech about how this was part of the biz, being caught out without a toothbrush or change of underwear and that we would just have to suck it up. He interrupted me to say, "No, it is just that I don't want to DIE!"

Well, the town had recently had an outburst of violence due to this dodgy German evangelist coming on a so-called Crusade for Christ to one of the major Muslim cities in Africa. Smooth move, that one, and he never made it past the airport as the town erupted. We got there a week later and there were still burnt-out cars scattered around.

I simply had not thought of that, that he was at serious risk from his countrymen where I was relatively safe as a foreigner. He was a Christian southerner and, who knows, if some of the local ragamuffins wanted a victim then he would have made a perfect one. There would have been no way I could have gone out and made a speech to a lynch mob that would have turned them back.

We flew back to Lagos to overnight and came back early the next morning to do the trip. Three extra hours flying time but so what?

The guy later died anyway when a clapped-out BAC 1-11 crashed on take-off at Kano; they had a full load off the shorter runway in the heat of the afternoon and never made it out of ground effect, I guess. So he escaped dying in tribal/religious violence but the local atmosphere of corruption got him. Well, him, most of the other people on the aircraft and a few slum-dwellers as well, but do you know what it costs to overhaul a Rolls-Royce Spey engine, times two?

Frighteningly close to reality.

Mbeki denies knowing anything about anything ever

PRETORIA. In one of his first policy statements in months, South African president Thabo Mbeki says he has never had any prior knowledge about anything, of any kind, regarding anything to do with the issue of anything, ever. He also repeated his claim that sinister forces were at work on the country, and named these as gravity, nature, the tides and the moon.

Mbeki has faced a storm of criticism in recent weeks for his lack of leadership, but this morning he rounded on his critics in a bold display of denial.

Flanked by the Pahad brothers, a selection of ministers, Presidency spokesmen and a soft toy given to him by Robert Mugabe as a Valentine's present last year, Mbeki told the nation's media that he had "less than nothing to be accountable for".

"To those who say I should have handled the xenophobia crisis better, or should have led the fight against HIV-Aids instead of obstructing it, or should have taken a firm stand against Mugabe instead of holding hands with him in French pavement cafes, or should have fought poverty instead of buying weapons, or should have unified the ANC instead of heading clandestine witch-hunts against political opponents, or should have spent more time worrying about the African Dark Ages than banging on about the African Renaissance, I say to those people: stop being such assholes.

"Contrary to what my critics insist, I have never been briefed on anything, of any sort, regarding claims or actions concerning any sort of thing, about anything, in connection with what-have-you, ever, at any time, at all.

"Likewise I have never been told anything by anyone connected to any person involved with any other people, ever.

"I have never met anyone, discussed anything with anyone, or thought about thinking about anyone, either alone or in public, at any time, ever, also, as well."

After applause from the delegates present, and a quick cuddle from the soft toy, Mbeki told gathered journalists that they were being manipulated by forces beyond their control.

He explained that a third force, described as "the sun", was exerting "considerable gravitational forces" on the planet, and that a small white object called "the moon" was having an "undue influence" on the tides.

"These twin onslaughts, from the sun and its white accomplice, are being supported by the constant and sustained destabilizing effects of nature, such as seasons, the weather, and so on," he said.

He said he was still waiting to be briefed on these forces by the National Intelligence Agency, but said early indications suggested that Cyril Ramaphosa, Helen Zille, Jacob Zuma, and the CIA chemists who created Aids were responsible for the gravity problem.

"And even if they're not directly responsible for gravity," he added, "then at least they're guilty of making us feel down."

So that's alright then.

I have lived my life in Africa, spent time in 22 countries on the dark continent. I am also of european descent (im too african to get a european passport and too european to be accepted as an african in my own country/continent). It is the most beautiful continent ( I havent seen OZ yet but then again its probably a good thing:E), blessed with untapped natural resources that could most likely sustain the whole world for a very long time. You get airborne from one dirt strip, fly at 280kts over pure, untouched jungle for 3 hours and land on another dirt strip. Nothing in between except undiscovered species and cannibals.

My fellow africans are a strange bunch. Tribal motherf#$ckers. They have always been this way and always will be, be it tribes from the same country, or different countrys, and skin colour is irrelevant in the tribal battle (Boer vs English, Zulu vs Xhosa, Tutsi vs Hutu, congo, sudan, chad, etc etc etc ad infinitum). It isnt racism. A few people of European descent have tried to create order in this tribal chaos and failed, for reasons we know and realise are not ideal ( no one is more equal than anyone else, even if the "anyone else" doesnt have a shred of human empathy or opposable thumbs, and the majority will always win in the end).

I guess what i am trying to say is Africa is a lost cause. MUGABE IS A MONSTER!! Well guess what, whoever replaces him will be just as much of a B@<hidden>. It is an african tradition. He will be corrupt, a liar, a thief , a rapist, a murderer and he will do it all with a gucci suit on . You just wont be able to see the leopard skin underneath.

Visit Lagos, Kinshasa , Luanda, Ougadougou, Khartoum, Ndjamena, Central Joburg, Harare, Mogadishu, Addis, Abidjan, Accra etc and tell me i am wrong.:sad:

capster, you didn't mention Nairobi!
What happened to Joshua Nkomo ? :hmm:

Joshua Nkomo died of cancer a few years ago, proving that there is some justice in the world after all. May that murdering bastard burn in hell.:yuk: Remember the two Viscounts.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/rob_rickards/viscounts/viscounts.htm

The unfortunate result of democracy at any cost, despite a culture not geared toward recognising democracy.

Zim vets 'ready' to take up arms
13/06/2008 10:22 - (SA)

Harare - President Robert Mugabe has warned that veterans of Zimbabwe's 1970s liberation war are prepared to take up arms again rather than see the opposition win a June 27 election, state media has reported.

"They came to my office after the (first round of) elections and asked me: 'Can we take up arms?'," Mugabe was quoted by the Herald newspaper as telling a rally in Murehwa, to the northeast of Harare.

"They said this country was won by the barrel of the gun and should we let it go at the stroke of a pen? Should one just write an X and then the country goes just like that?"

HARARE, Zimbabwe (CNN) -- Zimbabwe's President Robert Mugabe has warned that veterans he commanded in his country's liberation war will take up arms again to prevent the opposition party from taking power.


Zimbabwe's President Robert Mugabe says war veterans do not want the opposition in power.

Mugabe -- Zimbabwe's only leader since that struggle ended in 1980 -- faces a June 27 runoff with Morgan Tsvangirai of the opposition Movement for Democratic Change (MDC).

Mugabe told supporters that Tsvangirai would turn the country back over to white control if he wins the runoff.

The veterans he led in a successful effort against a government dominated by the white minority are not prepared to recognize a Tsvangirai victory, Mugabe said.

"They said they got this country through the barrel of gun, so they cannot let it go by a ballot," Mugabe said Thursday at a campaign rally in Murehwa.

Meanwhile, Zimbabwean authorities put more pressure on opposition figures on Thursday, seizing a top leader and accusing him of treason.

Police and the MDC confirmed Tendai Biti's arrest and the charges he will face.

The U.S. on Thursday called on the U.N. Security Council to immediately address the situation.

Tsvangirai was also detained twice Thursday, his party said. The first time he was released after a couple of hours.

Biti, secretary general of the MDC, was arrested when he arrived in Harare, Zimbabwe, from South Africa.

Zimbabwe's national police spokesperson Wayne Bvudzijena told CNN that Biti would be charged with treason and the communication of false information.

The treason charge relates to a document published by the MDC before the March 29 vote which, the state alleges, contains subversive statements authored by Biti.

These would be the "war vets" aged around 16-25 who were not even born when Mugabe took power...:rolleyes:

Mugabe raises spectre of war
13/06/2008 20:17 - (SA)

Harare - Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe raised the spectre of war on Friday by warning that his staunchest supporters were ready to take up arms rather than let the opposition triumph in a June 27 election.

In comments carried by state media, the 84-year-old said veterans of the 1970s liberation war had told him they were ready to go into battle once more to avoid the prospect of Movement for Democratic Change leader Morgan Tsvangirai coming to power after the run-off in a fortnight's time.

Although Mugabe told supporters of his Zanu-PF party he did not want a return to war, he repeatedly raised the threat of conflict and warned voters against making a "mistake".

His remarks added to the fevered poll build-up after Tsvangirai was twice detained while campaigning on Thursday and a top lieutenant arrested for treason.

Harassment, violence

Tsvangirai also saw his two campaign buses impounded on Friday in a move the MDC said was designed to cripple his campaign.

Meanwhile, a group of 40 leading Africans, including ex-United Nations chief Kofi Annan and Mozambique's former president Joaquim Chissano, said in an open letter they were "deeply troubled" by reports of intimidation, harassment and violence.

Neighbouring Botswana said it was "deeply disturbed" by the unfolding events, summoning Zimbabwe's ambassador to Gaborone to protest the "unacceptable" detentions of the opposition top brass.

The Mugabe regime was also facing condemnation from the UN after warnings that some 500 000 Zimbabwean children were no longer getting urgent food and medical aid since charities were ordered to halt their work.

In his speech to Zanu-PF followers at a rally northeast of Harare, Mugabe said a delegation of war veterans had approached him after the first round of elections on March 29 after Tsvnagirai fell just short of an outright majority.

Tsvangirai 'portrayed as puppet'

Mugabe said: "They came to my office after the elections and asked me: 'Can we take up arms?

"They said this country was won by the barrel of the gun and should we let it go at the stroke of a pen? Should one just write an X and then the country goes just like that?"

While Mugabe said he personally did not want to see a return to war, he also indicated a Tsvangirai victory would spark new conflict.

"Would you want to vote to go back to war, to fight for the country which we liberated?"

Tsvangirai had been repeatedly portrayed by Mugabe as a puppet of former colonial power Britain and wealthy whites, thousands of whom had had their farms seized by the state as part of a controversial land reform programme.

The MDC leader had accused Mugabe of being a dictator who had dragged the region's one-time breadbasket into a state of ruin.

Since Mugabe began his land reforms at the turn of the decade, the economy had gone into freefall. Inflation, officially put at 165 000%, was thought to be nearer two million percent while food shortages were widespread.

Bet this made him think twice and brought a little tear to his eye. All very symbolic of something or other. Still doesn't solve the problem though. Too little, too late as usual...

Mugabe honour may be revoked
13/05/2008 14:01 - (SA)

Boston - The president of the University of Massachusetts on Monday recommended that the school revoke an honorary degree awarded two decades ago to Zimbabwe President Robert Mugabe.

The issue has been under consideration for a year at the university.

"I must recommend that we sever the connection that was formed when Robert Mugabe appeared to be a force for positive change in Africa. Today, that promise no longer exists," Jack Wilson said in a statement.

In April 2007 the student senate of the school's Boston campus passed a resolution asking the university to revoke Mugabe's 1986 honorary doctorate of law, awarded by the University of Massachusetts-Amherst. The issue has also arisen at other universities.

Mugabe said last year through a spokespterson that he will not lose sleep if the University of Massachusetts and other schools stripped him of honorary degrees over his human rights record.

Former school teacher

An 84-year-old former school teacher, Mugabe received a string of honorary degrees from universities in the US, Europe and Asia after his nation's independence from Britain in 1980. He was recognised for his policies of reconciliation after a bloody seven-year guerrilla war that ended colonial rule.

In recent years he has been accused of holding onto power through elections that independent observers say were marred by fraud, intimidation and rigging, and of overseeing his country's economic collapse.

Last June, the University of Massachusetts Board of Trustees rebuked Mugabe for policies and practices that have "brought worldwide scorn" on him. They also agreed to look at further action.

Robert J Manning, chairperson of the board, said it will act on Wilson's recommendation at its June 12 meeting. The school has never rescinded an honorary degree.

________________________________________


University of Massachusetts revokes Mugabe degree


Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe

June 12, 2008, 21:15

The University of Massachusetts today cancelled an honorary law degree awarded 22 years ago to Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe, calling his leadership an assault on human rights.

The state university has never before revoked an honorary degree in its 145-year history.

Mugabe, 84, led the nation to independence from Britain in 1980 but has become an international outcast, accused of human rights abuses and ineffective economic policies that have resulted in rampant inflation, food shortages and poverty.

Mugabe and his officials are accused of intimidating opponents since a poll in March in which opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai won but fell short of the margin needed for outright victory, necessitating a runoff later this month.

US based Human Rights Watch said on Monday that a free and fair election scheduled for June 27 was impossible because of a systematic campaign of murder and brutality unleashed by Mugabe's Zanu-PF party in which at least 36 people have died.

Mugabe was awarded the honorary doctorate of laws degree in October 1986 for his exemplary devotion to social justice.

Zimbabwe faces economic decline
The university's president at the time, David Knapp, said Mugabe's gentle firmness in the face of anger and intellectual approach to matters which inflame the emotions of others, are hallmarks of quiet integrity.

The school's current president, Jack Wilson, said the university was compelled to take action because Mugabe's transgressions that have led the world community to condemn his government's assault on human rights and on the rule of law.

Last year, Edinburgh University withdrew a degree awarded in 1984 for Mugabe's services to education, also citing human rights violations by his government. – Reuters

Prediction: Bob will 'win' the election by a landslide, Morgan T. will leg it off to SA or even the UK if he can get away in time before he's charged with treason - and the leaders in the West (but very few in the UN) will mutter a few platitudes and it will be back to business as usual.

As they say down that way: "It's Africa."

Maclolm Fraser should be ashamed of himself for the major role he played in Mugabe's rise to power. It's not as if there weren't many people at the time who knew the ways of Africa who didn't predict how it would inevitably go.

MTOW

There are any number of Western leaders who should be ashamed of themselves over their actions at the end including Maggie Thatcher who rejected the election result that saw Muzorewa elected in 1979. She backtracked on her promise to recognise that election which was monitored by international observers.

That 1979 election showed the real support for Mugabe, who had ordered a boycott of the election, by registering a 62% turnout. When Thatcher refused to recognise the result it gave time for Mugabe and his thugs to set about terrorising the population to support him in the lead up to the 1980 election. The monitoring force in the lead up to that election ignored the fact that Mugabe was using force to coerce support despite overwhelming evidence.

There are a lot of people responsible for Mugabe's rise to power and it remains a potent example that a leopard doesn't change its spots.

So if Mugabe "wins" then how long can they keep playing in the dirty little sandpit they've created for themselves. How long before the country's real cash reserves run dry? :suspect:

Real cash = whatever anyone else will accept in exchange, so as long as the Chinese keep propping him up, never.

It hasn't really got messy there yet, but it's going to.

I hope we can get our people out before it does.

Maclolm Fraser should be ashamed of himself for the major role he played ...
ABC newsman John Highfield conducted an interview with Fraser back in 2000 during which he confronted him (Fraser) with the part he and Kenneth Kaunda had jointly played in persuading Thatcher to give independence to Zimbabwe (Rhodesia.) True to his normal spineless form, Fraser waffled on about his belief that Mugabe had "started well" and about how he "couldn't understand" why things had degenerated.


Fraser was a monumental prat whose head was firmly wedged in his own arse and who was never able to recognise the difference between rhetoric and reality. He will be mostly remembered for his two-faced attitude on the question of illegal immigrants/asylum seekers. he advocated on the one hand that asylum seekers (Vietnamese boat people) should be "housed in the community pending their applications" while at the same time, he had no problem with the holding of tens of thousands of Indo-Chinese refugees in squalid detention camps pending their applications. But because these camps were offshore and not actually IN Australia, he obviously felt there was a difference.

Fraser was an ineffective PM with whom history will probably not deal kindly. His part in the Mugabe business is just one of the reasons for this.

Undercover reporting from Zimbabwe is a risky business. Add to the mix a close encounter with one of President Mugabe's most feared supporters and, as Ian Pannell discovered, it becomes a brief glimpse of the terror that many people in the country are living through:-

Joseph Chinotimba is the deputy leader of the Zimbabwe National Liberation War Veterans Association and perhaps the most feared member of a group that has become synonymous with the worst excesses of violence in Zimbabwe in the last eight years.
His car blocked ours. He got out with three other men, striding towards us, wearing a T-shirt with two Kalashnikovs and Robert Mugabe's face printed on it.
We were in trouble.
His eyes were unflinching, a large, brooding man, full of hatred, smelling of alcohol and full of threats.
He leaned into the car, demanding to know who we were, where we were from, what we were doing, where we were going.
"We know what you are up to," he said and he paused, as if waiting for a confession.
"There are journalists here you know."
Still no response from us.
Joseph Chinotimba is a thug of a man who has acted with impunity for many years, and it was only fast and fluid talking by two South African colleagues we were travelling with that persuaded him to leave us alone.
I will never quite believe that he really bought what felt like a terribly flimsy cover story about travelling to see friends, but he did eventually let us pass.
It was a frightening few minutes, a brief glimpse of the terror that many people in Zimbabwe are living through.
We were taken to a run-down holiday camp which was now home to hundreds of people who had been forced out of their village for voting "wrongly".
That was not their word but the one used by the thugs who attacked them.
Time and again we heard that same charge being levelled against people: "You voted wrongly and we're going to punish you."
The atmosphere in the country may have changed, the violence and intimidation is systematic and brutal and people are living different lives... but one thing has not altered and that is people's desire for change.
I have spoken to people with deep gouged wounds in their buttocks and their feet, broken limbs, burnt down homes, even the bereaved.
Almost all are scared but they are also defiant.
Robert Mugabe's thugs may well have over-stepped the mark and actually stiffened people's resolve.
One woman who had lost everything was emphatic.
She told me that her beating had made her stronger. "It is my certificate," she said, like some perverse badge of distinction.
Now she would go and use it to vote again for change.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/7452828.stm

President Robert Mugabe has vowed that the main opposition party will never lead Zimbabwe and said he was prepared to "go to war" for his country.
Speaking at the burial of a former independence fighter, Mr Mugabe said he would never accept the MDC taking over the government of Zimbabwe.
He described the opposition as "traitors" and referred to Zimbabwe's past struggle for independence from its colonial ruler, Britain, saying the country should not be "lost" again.
"It shall never happen... as long as I am alive and those who fought for the country are alive," he is quoted by AFP as saying.
"We are prepared to fight for our country and to go to war for it."
(from:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7454569.stm )

Well, that confirms where all this is heading doesn't it? :(

Civil war fought over the bones of a dead country.

What you say about the mainly white crews sticking together
is probably correct in the circumstances.
But we used to operate all over the world hauling fre ight and
the same sort of attitude to our various "ethnic" differences
was always apparent.
We did have our differing attitudes to each other, and these
differences were fairly obvious sometimes, but they were never
at the same level as the African tribalist differences. Nowhere near!
I mean no-one would have dreamt of refusing to work or associate
with someone else in the Company just because they didn't share
a common "birthright". It would have been ridiculous, and I feel sure
that you know it to be true, but quite a lot of the African workers
did have problems trying to understand that.
They were Shona,or Matabele or Kikuyu or whatever, and that was
what came first to them, not their identity at a national level.
I've never been able to understand why they didn't accept thier
"Nationality" first, and tribal affiliations as a second place attitude.:hmm:
I've just noticed "Bluey's" comment in the previous post to this one,
And he is so correct, it will become a civil war over the bones of an
absolutely ruined country. No winners I'm afraid.

for ordinary household use water will do.

I did once go along on a a trip for Phil the Greek from Kano to Nguru and back as a co-pilot. I had to keep that one quiet from my "Irish" mother. (I am the only one in three generations ever to even visit "the Ould Sod" but if you asked her, she was Irish and, boy, did she hate the Brits! Never even met one but that didn't slow her down any.)

I don't think Mother would have understood how I could have actually worked for our colonial oppressor there. (Hint: It had something to do with money.)

Keep an eye on Hayibo.com for plenty of pithy comment about this situation.

Chuks, It ALL has something to do with money.
Believe me!:)

Mugabe rejects
'mere X'
16/06/2008 21:08 - (SA)

Harare/Johannesburg - President Robert Mugabe has indicated clearly for the first time that he will disregard the result of elections if his Zanu-PF party loses, according to reports in the state press on Monday.

"We fought for this country and a lot of blood was shed," the state-controlled daily Herald quoted him as telling a rally on Sunday in Silobela, a village in the country's central midlands province.

"We are not going to give up our country because of a mere X. How can a ballpoint pen fight with a gun?"
Senior officials in Mugabe's administration, including top army officials, have made similar remarks during campaigning ahead of the presidential run-off between Mugabe and Morgan Tsvangirai, the head of the opposition Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) party on June 27.

Hardened position in past week

Two weeks ago, Mugabe's wife, Grace, declared publicly: "Morgan Tsvangirai will never step foot in state house (the official presidential residence)."

The 84-year-old leader's remarks indicate he has hardened his position in the last week, while human rights workers and MDC officials report escalating violence in crowded, poor townships around Harare.

Mobs of Zanu-PF youths are said to be dragging people out of their homes at night, beating them up and forcing them to denounce Tsvangirai.

Legal analysts say Mugabe's threat to fight against a constitutionally-elected government and president are "treasonous".

Tsvangirai and the MDC inflicted the first election defeat on Mugabe and his party, winning Parliamentary elections and taking a majority in the presidential vote.

Up to 70 murdered

Official results showed that Tsvangirai had failed to obtain more than 50% of the vote needed for an outright win in the presidential election, making a run-off necessary.

The MDC says nearly 70 people have been murdered, several of them burned alive and mutilated, nearly 3 000 have had to be treated in hospital and 25 000 have been driven from their homes.

On Sunday, the Herald quoted Mugabe as saying that thousands of Zimbabweans had died during the 1973-1979 civil war against white minority rule, and that "any attempt to reverse the gains of the struggle would be fiercely resisted".

Mugabe claims the MDC is run by the governments of Britain and the United States.

Observers say his remarks may indicate growing anxiety that he may lose the election despite the violence in the 10-week campaign period. - Sapa-dpa

Many of those who died in the war were tortured to death or killed by so called "freedom fighters" as an example to intimidate others into supporting them. It seems history is just repeating itself once again.

Which is it? Obstruction of constitutional principles or incitement to civil war?

702 Radio

ANCYL will 'kill for Zuma' 17/06/2008 06:32:51

The ANC Youth League has vowed the youth of South Africa will die if they don't support the party's President Jacob Zuma.

ANC Youth League President Julius Malema says they're prepared to take up arms and kill for him.

Malema was speaking at Youth Day celebrations in the Free State on Monday.

His comments came as President Thabo Mbeki told crowds at the University of the Western Cape that the youth of today need to inspire the younger generation by being brave.

He said young people must learn from the youth of 1976 who were willing to sacrifice their lives for the freedom of others.

Meanwhile, Deputy President Phumzile Mlambo Ngcuka urged South Africans youth to use existing structures to address their grievances.

The Deputy President was speaking at a sitting of the youth parliament at a gathering in Pimville, Soweto during national Youth Day celebrations.

While the lofty ideals go out the window and another banana republic rises from the ashes....


http://www.hsrc.ac.za/Document-2807.phtml

Was comng up over Zim the other day.

Good vis showed us over a dozen large distinct fires all over the country. Looked like large farms or the like, definately not bush fires.

Poor poor Zim and all stuck in that internationally shunned country.

The FCO in the UK should be utterly ashamed for allowing this genocidal maniac and his thugs ruin "The Bread Basket" of Africa.:mad:

I am truly ashamed of my country's attitude and inaction.

What should the UK do? Sanctions? Invade?

Whatever role the UK may have played in the past, today the future of Zim is in the hands of its people and the leaders of other African nations.

The best we can do is be ready to provide help when a new leadership asks for it.

Alwayzinit. You are just going through the sort of feelings
that I used to have as Africa rolled by beneath you!
It is such a waste of opportunity and resources.
A continent that COULD feed the rest of the World
but it never will even feed itself under the present
bunch of incompetent egomaniacs that have got the
majority of the population by the balls.
I'm afraid there is nothing to be done until the Africans
WANT to do it themselves. Or the New Imperialist Masters,
the ones from the East that is, do something about it themselves.
Like, a Snowballs chance in Hell.http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/icons//icon8.gif

alwayzinit:

What can the UK government do, invade?

If it takes any action, other than internationally agreed sanctions, then Mugabe will have been proved right (to the warped way of thinking that he and his kind have). His claim is that all of the problems are caused by the old colonial power trying to ruin the country. Should the UK invade he and many others in the region will count whatever he has done over the years as being justified.

Any action will have to come from inside the country. The UK can only sit back and be ready to help if and when a new government asks for its help.

An interesting article (http://www.slate.com/id/2193213/) by Christopher Hitchens.

In response to those posters who believe doing nothing and waiting for the local population to act and get rid of this murdering bunch of thugs.

I can't remember who said it but a wise man said " For evil to triumph all that it needs is for good men to do nothing" or something like that:confused:

The British Govenment under both Labour and Tory Parties ACTIVELY, repeat, ACTIVELY supported ZIPRA as Zanu-PF was known.

Can't give details but anyone in Light Blue at the time would know what I mean.

Zanu - PF is like a snake with Mugabe and his inner circle as it's head. Remove them, or more realistically help them be removed.

The problem in Africa and Zim especially are not racial but tribal.

Mugabe and his Shona just about wiped out their main rivals in Zim, The Matebele, by isolating Matebele Land and starving them to death in the mid 80's. Thus settling an age old grudge for the Matabele beating up on the Shona in the 19 th century and before.

Mbeke and the ANC won't do anything as Mugabe is a Tribal elder.

I have to ask. How many were starving or being burnt to death when the Smith Gov was in place. The mess that we see today has to be placed solely at the door of Mr H Wilson et al who threw their teddies out of the cot when Smith declared UDI. Subsequent British Govs then went out of their way to bring down Smith and by default the whole country for The Smith's Gov's cheek of opting for independence. (Not the first time a British Colony rebelled against Imperial taxes and interferrance:cool:)

I know the Smith Gov was not all things to all men but had the UK held off and followed similar policies to those employed against Apartied in SA chances are it would have worked out a whole lot better, not fantastic but a working democratic intergrated country. As opposed to an extreme case of oppression and electoral fraud in ZIM.

As stated earlier in this thread Mugabe has effectivley declared war on his own countrymen , how about that for a liberating "hero".:mad:

There is no solution that will suddenly make everything better, but doing nothing IMHO is not the solution.

I couldn't agree more. The proceeding sums the situation up.
After Bob and his mates massacred the Sindebele in the 80s his days were numbered if he went out of power. Grudges can last a long time in Africa and I for one looked forward to him dangling from a lamp post in Jameson Avenue.
His vets didn't look like heroes when they were being loaded into Daks to go into detention with their shoe laces around their trouser legs to stop the crap dropping onto the aircraft floor. Someone had told them that the Portugese had loaded their mates in Frelimo on board Noratleses and dropped them off into the Indian Ocean. A lot of good men died in the Bush war but Bob was never too close to the front.

Tribe, Province, Leader, Terrorist group, Political Party

Shona, Mashonaland, Mugabe, ZANLA, ZANU

Ndebele, Matabeleland, Nkomo, ZIPRA, ZAPU

Formed an uneasy alliance against the Rhodesians during the 1970s bush war soon after independence things fell apart due to the British having fixed the election results too heavily in Mugabes favour.

Early/mid 1980s Mugabe sends his private army into Matabele land, 20 - 30 000 massacred. A taste of things to come.

Did some work in Rusape during school holidays. Used to be heaven on earth then...:(

Choose Mugabe or you face a bullet

Chris McGreal | Harare, Zimbabwe



18 June 2008 07:12

The soldiers and ruling party militiamen herded the people of Rusape to an open field at the back of the local sports club and made their point crystal clear.

"Your vote is your bullet," a soldier told the terrified crowd.

Everyone knew what he meant.

"They are saying we will die if we don't vote for Robert Mugabe, that there will be war if we don't vote for Robert Mugabe," said a wary young woman holding a small child. Mugabe says it too in speeches across the land ahead of next week's run-off presidential election against the man who beat him in the first round, Morgan Tsvangirai.

But the woman was not waiting around to discuss that. Darkness had fallen in Rusape, a small town in bloodied Manicaland, and she grew alarmed as she realised she might not make it home before the unofficial curfew put in place by the ruling party militia.

Already the Mitsubishi pick-up trucks filled with young men carrying sticks, spears and knives were out on the streets preparing to move door-to-door, beating, and sometimes killing, anyone associated with the opposition.

"They hunt the opposition. They said they ate human liver and drank urine during the war and so they were prepared for war again," said the young woman.

The militiamen found Farai Gamba, a ward organiser for the opposition Movement for Democratic Change (MDC), at the weekend and shot him dead. The Rusape chairperson of a group of Zimbabwean independent election monitors disappeared on Saturday night and his whereabouts are not known. Many others have been tortured at the local militia base.

De facto curfew
The de facto curfew is in place because the ruling Zanu-PF does not want witnesses to the terror that engulfs Zimbabwe at night, and increasingly during the day, as the party seeks to avoid a repeat of three months ago, when Tsvangirai defeated Mugabe, albeit without an outright majority to secure an outright win.

A campaign that began with the tested tactic of beatings has evolved into a full-blown military strategy of abductions and murders of opposition MDC activists and supporters. More than 100 have been killed and 200 have disappeared. Thousands more have been beaten so badly they will bear the scars for life. A number of rapes have also been reported, including of three women who had wooden poles thrust into their vaginas. But it is not clear at this stage if the attacks are a deliberate part of the terror strategy.

Often the corpses are hidden, but occasionally the killers like to display their handiwork as a warning. Chokuse Muphango was murdered in Buhera South last week. His killers put his body on the back of a truck and drove it through town announcing: "We have killed the dog."

MDC members of Parliament, mayors and councillors have been burned out of their homes and terrorised into fleeing. Hundreds of opposition activists are in jail on trumped up charges of inciting violence after being tortured and dumped at police stations.

Tens of thousands of known opposition supporters have been forced from their homes or had their identity cards destroyed so they cannot vote. The government is also laying the ground for extensive rigging by purging the election process of independent officials, such as teachers, and putting state workers and soldiers in their place.

Anyone who might stand in the way is pursued. Independent Zimbabwean groups that monitor the polls, campaign for human rights or assist the injured have been driven underground after their offices were raided and leaders arrested. Foreign aid workers have been banned from rural areas so they cannot witness the violence and intimidation.

Masters of our destiny
Mugabe has said time and again he regards the upcoming vote not as an election but as a continuation of the liberation struggle against Western imperialism and its "puppet", Tsvangirai. "This country shall not again come under the rule and control of the white man, direct or indirect. We are masters of our destiny. Equally, anyone who seeks to undermine our land reform programme, itself the bedrock of our politics from time immemorial, seeks and gets war. On these two interrelated matters we are very clear. We are prepared to go to war," Mugabe told an election rally at the weekend.

The strategy to fight back with violence was agreed by Mugabe's security Cabinet, the Joint Operations Command, of senior military and party officials shortly after Zanu-PF was shocked to lose the first round of elections.

The campaign targeted provinces such as Manicaland, Mashonaland and the Midlands where support for the ruling party was traditionally strong but swung significantly to the opposition as the economy continued to implode under the weight of hyperinflation, mass unemployment and widespread food shortages.

Zanu-PF realised it had no prospect of reversing the economic decline. Since the first election, inflation has surged to 1,6m%. A teacher typically earns Z$40-billion a month. A litre of cooking oil costs Z$20-billion.

So the ruling party is quashing the opposition's ability to organise on the ground by driving out local MDC activists and then terrorising ordinary voters. The MDC fears that it may be working.

The young woman clutching her child in Rusape certainly got the message. "We are scared. We are not going to vote. We just want to live. Some people are saying they will vote Zanu-PF," she said.

'They make you really, really feel the pain before you die'
The MDC's national election director, Ian Makone, was forced into hiding more than a month ago. He will meet only after dark -- "I work at night. I never go out during the day" -- and at an empty house.

Since Makone went underground his campaign manager, Ken Nyeve, and security guard, Godfrey Kauzani, have been abducted and murdered along with Better Chokururama, the driver for Makone's wife, Theresa, who is an opposition MP. "Better's body was found first. They found the other two four days later. They were stabbed with knives and screwdrivers. Their eyes were gouged out and their faces burned ... There's a pattern. They torture you. They make you really, really feel the pain before you die," said Makone.

"They were looking for me. We hadn't told anyone where I went in to hiding, not even our staff. Maybe if we had told them they could have survived after telling."

Chokururama had already spent several weeks in hospital after a severe beating after the first election. "After the election it was clear their strategy was one of retribution. They made up their minds they were giving in to this violence and started to position themselves in key constituencies," said Makone. "Every day there are things that happen that I say, 'what the hell are we doing?' I meet people who say, 'people are dying, people are suffering, is it worth doing this?'"

In Manicaland, where the vote swung substantially away from Zanu-PF to deliver an MDC victory, the strategy is overseen by the air force chief, Perence Shiri, who strikes terror into the population as the man who led the Fifth Brigade as it killed about 20 000 people during the Matabeleland massacres in the 1980s.

Among those who have fled rural areas of the province to the main town of Mutare are five MDC members of Parliament who dare not move around their constituencies or even sleep in their homes. They include Lynette Karenyi, the MP for Chimanimani West. "They have put Zanu-PF bases in each and every ward of my constituencies where they are taking people and beating them," she said.

Karenyi said the pro-Mugabe rallies in her constituency are being led by Shiri and the Matabeleland governor, Tinaye Chigudu. "Shiri and Chigudu held a meeting where they ordered people to beat MDC supporters. Afterwards the mob went to beat people and loot houses," she said. "They also told the voters to say they don't know how to read and write when they vote and they need help to vote for Robert Mugabe. People are now afraid that if they don't ask for help Zanu-PF will know they voted for the opposition."

Another of the opposition MPs who fled to Mutare is Prosper Mutseyami. "They came to my rural home looking for me in the middle of the night three times," he said. "They're picking off all my party workers. There's 28 in police custody charged with inciting violence. They include the ward chairperson, three councillors, the organising secretary." He said they were targeting election agents so polling stations would not be monitored and to discourage political activity.

"I'm being denied permission to hold rallies on the grounds that there's no police manpower. The funny part is Zanu-PF are holding rallies daily in my constituency."

Mutseyami says the forced Zanu-PF meetings are often led by a Major General Bandama. "He threatens people. They say the last time you voted you voted wrongly. If you don't vote Robert Mugabe we will bring a war," he said.

'Kiss that bullet'
An MDC district organiser in Makoni, who did not wish to be named, said that militiamen beat her children to force her to unlock her bedroom door during a late-night raid on her home. The activist, clearly still shocked by the ordeal, said she was forced into a vehicle, ordered to strip and repeatedly assaulted over the following hours. "They beat me and shouted: You are a bitch. They left me at a police station. They took a bullet and threw it at me. They said: kiss that bullet. They meant I was going to die," she said. The police threw the woman into a cell after charging her with public violence.

Zanu-PF has also targeted human rights lawyers, forcing them in to hiding or exile. Chris Ndlovu has defied the threats to represent opposition supporters hauled before the courts in Mutare. "The numbers are staggering. In some small places there are more than 100 people in prison. They are even arresting schoolchildren under 14. I have one case of a man of 94 years accused of public violence. In 16 years as a lawyer I have never witnessed this. It's unprecedented," he said.

"We have the military in rural areas and they target MDC supporters. They abduct them at night and take them to their bases where they claim to be 'reorienting' them but where they are just torturing people. When they are done they dump them at the police station where the police have no choice but to find an excuse to charge them. So the victim is accused of being the perpetrator of the violence."

The militia has made a particular point of targeting teachers, who have traditionally acted as neutral election officials. Some schools have been left so denuded of staff they now barely function.

Felistance Sithole lives in Rusape but dares not return to teach at a school in nearby Makoni South after she was threatened because she was a polling officer in the first election. "I won't do it again. I'm afraid. Most of us are afraid," she said.

That is what Zanu-PF intended. In place of teachers and other unreliable elements, next week's election will be overseen by party functionaries, soldiers and civil servants who owe their jobs to Zanu-PF.

Makone says the violence will have an impact. "We're going to lose some of the rural votes. My estimate is we can afford to lose 200 000 votes in rural areas but we need to make it up in urban votes. We are going door to door in urban areas and begging for votes. We are holding secret meetings at night in people's houses, telling people this is their chance."

Makone calculates that at least half a million potential MDC supporters did not vote in Zimbabwe's two main cities, Harare and Bulawayo, in the first round of elections and that they could tip the balance firmly in Tsvangirai's favour.

Zanu-PF seems to have recognised the same thing and is now targeting Harare's townships. In recent days, the ruling party's militia has hit Epworth, a township on Harare's eastern flank where Zanu-PF has established five bases and what is euphemistically called an "information centre" where MDC supporters are persuaded to see the error of their ways.

In Hatfield township, the militia burned down an MDC councillor's house. He wasn't at home. His wife and seven-year-old son died in the fire. - guardian.co.uk © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2008

I know the Smith Gov was not all things to all men but had the UK held off and followed similar policies to those employed against Apartied in SA chances are it would have worked out a whole lot better, not fantastic but a working democratic intergrated country. As opposed to an extreme case of oppression and electoral fraud in ZIM.

Doubtful. SA not too far behind Zim on the tightrope stretched out over the abyss...:(

The 500 lb gorilla in the corner that no one will admit to actually being able to see is the fact that Mbeki and Mugabe are bosom buddies and very likely cut from the same cloth. The 2010 FWC will be the watershed and it'll be all over for SA after that....:(

'Mugabe behaving like a warlord'

2008-6-19 14:03
Harare, Zimbabwe

Four opposition party activists were killed in a firebombing near Harare overnight, the party said on Thursday, the attack carried out even as South African President Thabo Mbeki was in Zimbabwe on a mediation mission.
The opposition has said more than 60 of its activists have been killed in recent weeks, and accuses President Robert Mugabe of unleashing widespread violence to ensure victory over Movement for Democratic Change candidate Morgan Tsvangirai in a presidential run-off to be held in just over a week.

Independent human rights activists have implicated police and soldiers as well as Mugabe party militants in the violence.

Movement for Democratic Change spokesperson Nqobizitha Mlilo said that militants linked to Mugabe's party were seen in the area before the firebomb attack on the home of one party activist. Mlilo said the activist and three colleagues were killed, an unusually high one-day toll.

Mugabe "is behaving like a warlord", Mlilo said. "This violence must stop."

Attempts to reach Zimbabwean police for confirmation of the firebombing were not immediately successful.

Wednesday, South Africa's Mbeki held talks with Tsvangirai and then late into the night with Mugabe amid increasing international concern that the June 27 run-off will not be free and fair. Mbeki, who has steadfastly refused to publicly rebuke Mugabe, left late on Wednesday without speaking with reporters. His spokesperson did not respond to calls seeking comment on Thursday.

Mugabe spokesperson George Charamba was quoted in Thursday's edition of the state newspaper The Herald as saying Mbeki came merely to review election preparations.

Immense pressure

Mbeki says confrontation with Mugabe could backfire. But Mbeki's decision to spend his 66th birthday with the 84-year-old Zimbabwean autocrat underlined the immense pressure he is under at home and abroad.

Mbeki is being urged to take a tougher stance or to show that his quiet tactics can work to persuade Mugabe to stop the violence before the election; possibly even to bring Tsvangirai and Mugabe together in a power-sharing compromise.

Tsvangirai has called on Mbeki to step down as mediator, accusing him of bias toward Mugabe. The Movement for Democratic Change said Tsvangirai met Mbeki in his capacity as a visiting head of state, not as a mediator, on Wednesday.

Mlilo expressed little confidence that Mbeki's visit would make a difference, noting "four people died that very day" the South African visited.

"Mugabe doesn't seem to care what the international community thinks," Mlilo said.

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice demanded action on Wednesday.

"It is time for leaders of Africa to say to President Mugabe that the people of Zimbabwe deserve a free and fair election," she said after a meeting in Washington with Kenyan Prime Minister Raila Odinga - one of the few African leaders who has criticised Mugabe.

"You cannot intimidate opponents, you cannot put opponents in jail, you cannot threaten them with jail on charges of treason and expect to be respected in the international community," Rice said.

Odinga urged world leaders to pressure Mugabe to step down, and called the run-off a "complete sham". Botswana last week also protested to Zimbabwe - a sign that African solidarity with Mugabe is fading.

ANC president Jacob Zuma was quoted by South African media on Wednesday as saying the run-off was unlikely to be free.

Most observers have praised the conduct of the first round - although not the delay in releasing official results. But there are growing fears that Mugabe will steal the second round through violence and ballot rigging.

Can someone explain to me under which conditions neutral international army (UN,berrets bleu etc...) gets in a country subjected to intense civil violences and imposes itself as an authority?

Is zimbabwe within their action ranges?
If so,when will they find the situation elligible for it?

A couple of SEAL teams, an AC-130, and a free world that meant what it said in the UN charter would quickly be the end of Mugabe.

Alas, we don't have that.

It's all over: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7467990.stm

Sad, but understandable decision under the circumstances.
Heard that the arena where an 'opposition' rally was to be held was occupied by ZanuPF supporters beforehand, armed with sticks . . .
But supporters of Mr Mugabe's Zanu-PF occupied the stadium venue and roads leading up to it.
Witnesses reported seeing hundreds of youths around the venue wielding sticks, some chanting slogans, and others circling the stadium crammed onto the backs of trucks.
Some set upon opposition activists, leaving a number badly injured, the MDC said.
It said African election monitors were also chased away from the rally site.
That's just not cricket, old chap.

Tsvangirai showed more than a little courage to stand in opposition at all in a land ruled by thugs, vermin who controlled everything from the distribution of food to the counting of votes, and who would not stand by and let their power ebb away.

One wishes all decent nations would rise up with Zimbabweans against Mugabe and restore justice. But there will always be someone to provide Mugabe arms, fellow despots to enable and validate his rule; and men without conscience can always be bought enforce the brute power of the vile regime.

It's a sad, sad day for all of us.

It's a sad, sad day for all of us.


And an extremely shameful one.

Mbeki must be so proud...:rolleyes:

Today I'm ashamed to be South African.

I wonder what has happened to suddenly turn all those other African leaders around ? call me a old cynic but I suspect they have all had a call from their Chinese Embassies.

agree the chinese are 21st colonists-who will plunder africa .. cant see the language catching on..fancy some sweet and sour zebra ..

Nelson [mandela] is having a birthday party in London :mad::ugh:
watp,iktch

Well, London's probably a lot safer. Can't blame him for avoiding the crime and violence rife in SA. Most folks I know would give major body parts to be able to do the same.:(

Cop arrested for ATM bombing
22/06/2008 15:33 - (SA)

Thabisile Khoza


Hendrina - A Gauteng policeman accused of bombing an ABSA automatic teller machine (ATM) in Hendrina, Mpumalanga, will appear in court on Tuesday.

Inspector Mpho Lebakeng, 38, of Sinoville police station in Pretoria and co-accused Lebatlo Michael Thole, 37, of Mamelodi were remanded after their previous appearance in the Hendrina Magistrate's Court last week.

They have not been asked to plead yet to charges of armed robbery, attempted murder, theft of motor vehicle and possession of unlicensed firearms and ammunition.

Thole was arrested on the scene on June 3 after a shootout with police, while Lebakeng was arrested at his house in Pretoria on June 6.

An off-duty constable who lives nearby the ATM had woken up to the explosion and called for back-up.

Mpumalanga police spokesperson Captain Leonard Hlathi said that three men drove past the constable and fired shots at him.

The occupants of two other vehicles, a Toyota Camry and grey VW Golf 5 without registration plates, also shot at him.

Back-up police arrived swiftly and the suspects jumped out their vehicles and escaped on foot.

Thole was shot in the right leg and caught, but the others got away.

Police are still searching for six other suspects.

Inspector Lebakeng has other criminal cases pending against him, including a murder case in Richards Bay where he is implicated in an armed robbery and shootout with security guards.
He also faces kidnapping and perjury charges, and he was out on bail when he was arrested for the Hendrina bombing.

Anyone with information about the other six suspects in the Hendrina matter is asked to call (013) 249 1071.

South Africa has the dubious distinction of being among the world’s five most-murderous nations.

Research presented by the United Nations Human Settlement Programme (UN-Habitat) ranks the country among the top five highest murder rates in the world, together with Colombia, Jamaica, Guatemala and Venezuela.

The research found that South Africa has the world’s fourth-highest robbery rate after Venezuela, Colombia and Brazil.


The research was presented at the International Youth Crime Prevention and Cities Summit, which ended in Durban yesterday.

Ten years ago, South Africa had the highest recorded per capita murder rate of the countries selected in an Interpol report.

In 1998 there were 59 recorded murders per 100000 of the country’s population, followed by Colombia with 56 murders per 100000.

And while the SA Police Service insists the murder rate is down — from 22.7 per 100000 in 2001/02 to 18.7 murders per 100000 in 2007/08 — the UN settlement programme is not convinced.

Zahra Hassan, a spokesman for UN-Habitat, said they were confident of the accuracy of their statistics, because they were based on research conducted alongside government officials, NGOs and other community organisations.

She would not say where exactly in the top five SA rated, but allowed that more detailed statistics would be released during the publication of the State of the Cities report in the next few months.

The SAPS will release its latest crime statistics on June 30.

The UN programme’s overview has also shown crime rates at both global and regional levels have increased steadily between 1980 and 2000, rising about 30% from 2 300 crimes per 100 000 people to more than 3000 .

In South Africa, the number of private security guards has increased by 150% since 1997 — an indication of a loss of confidence in the ability of the relevant authorities to cope with growing levels of crime .

While the country has long had a reputation for being dangerous , the UN statistics should be treated with caution, says Johan Burger, a senior researcher in the crime, justice and police programme at the Institute for Security Studies .

Burger said on Friday that it was difficult to make a comparison with the crime statistics of other nations, as many countries didn’t report their crime rates to the UN or Interpol.

“I think everyone would agree that certainly as far as our violent crime is concerned, we must be among the leading countries in the world. But there’s no way we can say with any certainty where we rank amongst those countries,” said Burger.

Lionel Arnolds, project manager at the Centre for Justice and Crime Prevention, said it was shocking that SA was ranked as one of the countries with the highest homicide rates in the world.

“But what we must understand is that crime is a universal phenomenon. I suppose it’s a realisation for us to look at policy around crime prevention,” he said.

Arnolds said they had conducted the National Youth Victimisation Survey in 2005, which found that crime and violence was pervasive.

The study found that SA’s level of violence was unquestionably among the highest in the world, with young people — particularly between 12 and 22 — generally at the receiving end.

A research paper presented at the summit by the UN-Habitat revealed that in South Africa during 2005 and 2006:


302000 girls under the age of 18 were raped;


1075 children were murdered;


20879 were assaulted; and


4725 were indecently assaulted.

Delegates also discussed the estimated 100 million street children around the world who are associated with drug and human trafficking, violence, child abuse and poverty.

Inga Björk-klevby, assistant secretary general and deputy executive director of UN-Habitat told delegates at the summit that there was evidence that increasing numbers of street children in some cities were related to trafficking and organised crime.


The UN estimates that each year between 133million and 275million children experience violence at home. Boys and girls are equally subjected to abuse by family members and exploited as child labour, but girls make up 98% of children who are sexually exploited.

Arnolds said youth victimisation was also high in South Africa.

“While the high rate of youth victimisation is not surprising, what is surprising is that it’s committed in places considered to be safe — like schools and homes,” Arnolds added.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00355/TTM232311CC385_355919a.jpg

All those in favour ... raise your hands.

A couple of SEAL teams, an AC-130, and a free world that meant what it said in the UN charter would quickly be the end of Mugabe.


International reaction appears to be stiffening, following the decision to back off from an election confrontation with near certain murderous consequences.

Perhaps this time it will be different for Mugabe. One has the sense he has exhausted most of his options and played most of his cards, without really prevailing in a way that permits going forward.

Problem for outsiders is how to intercede without taking "ownership" of the failed government, which certainly will leave a mountain of problems behind when it vanishes from view. The fact that Tsvangirai and his people seem willing and politically able to take on the task of rebuilding the country is an incentive for outside nations to intercede more aggressively now, while the possibilities and issues are quite clear.

From anecdotal remarks seen everywhere, it is not outside reason that Mugabe and his generals could be declared to be international criminals for war crimes and genocide in times past. Testimony to this effect seems to be abundant and readily available. The existence of such formal charges might give the UN a handle for specific actions to intercede in the current conflict, and would certainly put some anxiety into the (stone) hearts of the Mugabe administration members.

Perhaps similar accusations in private venue courts could be used to obtain preliminary judgements or security liens against some of the folks involved. Seizures of Zim property - such as aircraft, vehicles, could follow - taking away some of Bob's toys and escape routes.

Surely a way could be found, in these modern times, to take out a couple of Bob's palaces in a surgical and largely anonymous way? That might crimp his joie de vivre considerably.

All considered, it seems likely Mugabe is going to be having a bad year.

In the end, it is the British government who determined the fate of Southern Rhodesia at the time, by forcing out a government based on sensible principles and with the economic success of the country in clear focus. Instead of Ian Smith, the British government of the day wanted the usual tribal conflicts to play out (called "democracy"), and now we have the results. The British government (who again happens to be a Labour government, to make things a bit easier) must do the right thing and send in a crack SAS team, eliminate Mugabe and his cronies and establish a sane government, whether black or white.

There is more justification for this than for British troops protecting poppy plantations in Afghanistan.

While I agree with the sentiment I do wonder what reaction we would get from the usual suspects were the US or UK involved.Would it be a mercenary involvement to safeguard supplies of raw materials as they seem to say Iraq was? Presumably sometime soon we will be accused of being in Afghanistan for the poppies.

The British government (who again happens to be a Labour government ...
Again? :confused: The British Government that formally granted independence to Zimbabwe on April 18 1980 was Thatcher's Conservative government. They took power in May 1979, (almost a year prior to the event) and began negotiations about four months later at Lancaster House. The pre-independence elections that followed in February 1980 were supervised by that same British Government. The then Prime Minister of Australia, who also played a large part in the proceedings, was Malcolm Fraser, a Liberal Government leader.

"In 1979 Fraser was in Zambia in August for the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting. At this meeting, and the follow-up at Lancaster House in London later that year, the Australian Prime Minister’s influence was a key factor in the progress towards the independence of Zimbabwe. The supervised elections and Commonwealth-monitored ceasefire produced the first majority representation in the former Rhodesia, and made Robert Mugabe (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:gotoWhosWho%28%27mugabe_robert%27%29;) the Prime Minister of Zimbabwe. At the independence celebrations in Salisbury in 1980, Malcolm Fraser’s contribution was firmly acknowledged."
Quote from Renouf, Alan, Malcolm Fraser and Australian Foreign Policy, Australian Professional Publications, Sydney, 1986