Ejecting On A Martin Baker Seat

[fantaman]

Evening All,

Is there anyone on the forum whos ejected from an aircraft on a Martin Baker seat? I'd like to talk to you and pick your brains if you dont mind.

Cheers :ok:

[Yellow Sun]

Can't help you directly, but I presume that you are aware of this site EJECT (http://www.ejectorseats.co.uk/)
YS

[fantaman]

Affirm, I've seen that thanks. Would like to speak to someone though.

[fantaman]

I figure I might get more of a response if I explain why I'd like to talk to someone. I'm writing an article on the Martin Baker Company for a large aviation magazine. As well as looking at other areas, I would like to include the first hand experience of an ejectee. I dont need to meet you and you dont have to be named (if you dont want to).

I'm not a tabloid journo and I'm not out looking for a big scoop. This is something I do in my spare time.

Cheers :ok:

[airborne_artist]

I suggest you speak to Bob Thompson at MB itself - he's at Chalgrove, and you can find the number on their website. What/who he doesn't know on the subject is not worth knowing. He's got all the pictures, stories and video you could ever need, and he's a nice guy to boot.

[fantaman]

Thanks AA,

I've emailed him and I'm awaiting his response. I'm also talking to Martin Baker at Denham aerodrome now and it looks like we have their full support.

Thanks for the advice though, appreciated.

[ProcATCO]

It Hurts - a lot!!

Thats what I remember, thats all I remember!!

:eek: :ok:

[jimgriff]

Bob Thompson has also ejected. Confirm that he is a great chap and most helpful.
The story is on my web site www.ejectorseats.co.uk.

[JB001]

Hi Fantaman,

My father ejected from a Hawker Hunter in the UK in about 1974, using a Martin Baker ejection seat. Sure he'd be happy to have a chat if you are interested. PM me if you're after the details.

Cheers,

JB

[Tarnished]

Fantaman,

Check your PMs. Been there, done it twice. Careless I know. Both times on MB seats.

Cheers

Tarnished

[brickhistory]

Been there, done it twice.

Bit of a sadistic question, but did the first experience cross your mind before pulling on the second?

(Yes, I get that the options at such a time are limited, just curious......)

[Tarnished]

Yes very much so.

First one was a very quick sequence of event, I had no real time to think about it, it was instinct. Second one I had a long long time to think about the inevitable outcome.

Both stories are on Jimgriff's webb site at the link above.

Tarnished

[Phil_R]

Whenever I have discussed this with aircrew, there's often the feeling that many people stay with dangerous situations for too long in an attempt to avoid ****-canning an expensive airframe. Obviously there's always going to be situations where both wings have fallen off where the choice is clear cut, and it's easy in hindsight to say people should have got out sooner, but I guess it'd depend on the situation.

Phil

[Spon Clayton]

Twice, both MB-happily. Mk4 (ouch), landed in sea (easy) and Mk10 (comfy armchair), landed on concrete (ouch). First was ac, second me.

[Zoom]

Care to tell us more, Spon, especially about the second one?

[Spon Clayton]

Public knowledge old chap

[jimgriff]

Spon,

I would love to get the details on my web site. Tarnished has provided stories of both his ejections and I am keen to collect more stories of the experiences.

please get in touch. [email protected]

www.ejectorseats.co.uk

[P-T]

Fantaman,

I know Tony Cann, from Lowestoft fame and a few other pilots who have prematurely departed a harrier.
Do you mind me asking why you need to speak to them?

[threeputt]

Spon, check your PM's

3P

[fantaman]

P-T, sent you a PM :ok:

[frank9757]

I have few of my friends who have ejected once or twice from MB from Mig-19 and Mig-21. They are still flying. There were incidents in which depending on the state of the flight and the posture at the time of ejection they had compression iin the back or problems related to ejection showing later in life.

Frank

[KN647]

Does anyone remember the details about a Lightning crash back in the 60s, I think.
I can remember the photo in a newspaper of the aircraft mostly intact on the ground.
The news story went like this - pilot tried to eject but system did not work. Therefore he tried to land it. When ac hit the ground the ejector seat operated and the pilot was killed going through the canopy.

Does anyone remember this incident and know the details?

[spekesoftly]

I can remember being told about the same or similar incident by a RAF QFI.

As related by him, the Lightning pilot had done a precautionary shut-down of one engine, when shortly afterwards the other engine failed. The pilot then managed to relight the first engine in an attempt to limp to the nearest available airfield on much reduced power. When it became apparent that he might not make it, he decided to eject, but the seat did not function. After a successful forced landing, the seat fired but was outside the limits to save the pilot.

I can't vouch for the accuracy, just the best that I recall being told. I think it's also been mentioned elsewhere on PPRuNE, but a search has so far not found it.

[PPRuNeUser0211]

That's intriguing, I'd heard that every (operational) MB seat ever operated within the envelope had functioned correctly and as advertised! Does this mean it's all publicity....? Am concerned for my (to me at least!) extremely precious backside now....

[spekesoftly]

This incident (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1689041&postcount=12) also looks very similar.

[Jaguar Pilot]

I escaped from Jaguar T2 XX828 (we both did) June 1st 1981.

Chute opened at 200ft according to Boscombe ballistics and it transpired that the aircraft rate of descent was so high that neither seat was ever moving upwards during the sequence. A very smooth ride and it didn't hurt one bit. Felt the heat of the fireball and landed only 25 yards from it - if there had not been any wind I dread to think what would have happened!

There followed a nice letter from Martin Baker and the mounted handle sits in my hallway.

Martin Baker - it does exactly what it says on the tin....

JP

[CarltonBrowne the FO]

pba_target, AFAIK in this case the seat was outside its envelope; at the time the Lightning had a zero-90 seat (Zero feet minimum, but 90 knots). Glad I wasn't aware of any T5-specific problems before my trip though!

[spekesoftly]

Outside the envelope when the seat eventually fired after the forced landing, but not when the pilot initially attempted to eject ?

[PPRuNeUser0211]

exactly speke... although perhaps because the failure was with the canopy release it doesnt count towards the stats? Was the canopy system the responsibility of EE or MB?

[spekesoftly]

Same thought here re. canopy etc. Sorry, I don't know the answer.

[threepointonefour]

I once ejected on a Martin Baker seat ...

[Double Zero]

Perhaps we should not forget the accident which killed Lt. Cdr Taylor Scott RN, Harrier Test Pilot operating from Dunsfold.

He was doing a routine test flight on a GR5 ( ZD325 ) when the drogue fired undemanded at 35,000 ft, dragging him through the canopy.

The chute was shredded on the tail temperature probe, and he fell to his death.

The aircraft carried on under autopilot, and was photographed with the seat still in by a Galaxy sent to look when the radio went unanswered.

No cast-iron fault was ever found, theories range from him motoring the seat down to avoid the evening sun, onto a wander lamp which had fallen from it's stowage on the aft bulkhead ( now deleted ).

I photographed attempts to recreate this, I believe out of 40 or so tries it worked once - usually the seat just sprang sideways.

Another theory was that the new OBOGS failed and he became hypoxic, pulling the manual separation instead of 100% oxygen.

In theory an interlock prevents manual separation working unless the main eject handle has already been pulled, but in reality checks found the interlock ineffective on many seats.

The fact the Mk 12 was the first MB seat to incorporate electronics caused a bit of pondering too.

Personally from my unenlightened view, I've always thought the fact Taylor was doing cabin pressurisation checks might be relevant - barostatic release...

After this, initially GR5's were stored grounded in specially brought in temporary hangars, then later allowed to fly at less than 10,000, then finally cleared.

There is a memorial to Taylor ( which also mentions Jim Hawkins who died in the 1st Hawk 200, (remember the Hawk is a Dunsfold, not Warton, product ! ), Bill Bedford and to the P1127 itself - used to be the gate guardian briefly -beside an ex ETPS Hunter at Dunsfold.

There's also a simple brass plaque ' died testing' on a beam in the pub outside Dunsfold, the Three Compasses.

His family were never even told about these simple memorials until his brother stumbled on something on www.harrier.org.uk (http://www.harrier.org.uk)
- which says a lot about late BAe...

I'm not sure how this tallies with 'every seat tried worked' statistics...