Athens to Bournemouth

[Kyprianos Biris]

During the 3rd week of April I plan to ferry a Greek reg' Socata TB20 from Athens Greece to Bournemouth UK for a midlife upgrade on avionics and a nice paintwork :O
I can fly both VFR & IFR, will have Oxygen if needed and the aircraft does not have anti/de ice gear on board.
Except of the IFR conventional instruments (incl. ADF & DME) there is a KLN94B GPS on board and a portable Garmin 296 for back up.
I am on the initial stages of planning the flight checking E(LO) low level IFR charts but have not purchased any VFR charts for the route of flight yet.
I am looking for some advise from "Eurotourers" herein since this will be my first long cross country after 17 yrs of GA flying :)
I a considering stop overs for refuel at Kerkyra LGKR, Bastia LFKB and Montpellier LFMT (probable overnight) and then off to Bournemouth.
A first query I did on some IFR FPLs from Eurocontrol validator got these without errors:
(FPL-SXATK-ZG
-01TRIN/L-SDR/C
-LGMG1200
-N0145F100 EGN KOR/N0145F100 IFR R193 GARTA
-LGKR0130 LGKF
- )
(FPL-SXATK-IG
-01TRIN/L-SDR/C
-LGKR1200
-N0145F120 TIGRA A14 BRD L995 PEMAR L5 OST P160 MEDAL A1 ELB
-LFKB0330 LFKJ
- )
(FPL-SXATK-IG
-01TRIN/L-SDR/C
-LFKB1200
-N0145F060 SODRI A3 RUBIT G7 MTG G6 RHONE
-LFMT0150 LFMU
- )
(FPL-SXATK-IG
-01TRIN/L-SDR/C
-LFMT1200
-N0145F100 MEN A27 MOU B373 TRO G40 VATRI B3 BILGO H20 XORBI G40 ABB T27 GURLU Y8 SAM
-EGHH0430 EGHI
- )

I would like to avoid flying over the Alps with anything except CAVOK so for now I am looking into routes SW of the Alps without ruling out an over the Alps eventual decision if this proves to be the best choise.
Also for the same reason I prefer from to fly off from Kerkyra towards Italy instead of a route via the Adriatic sea's East coast.
I will fly night IFR as long as I will have no terrain below or serious IMC.
I was amazed to find out that there are so few Low airways to lead me IFR into Bournemouth flying west of Paris (none actually).
Seeing that IFR will make me do some considerable left's & right's off my "best" course, I am thinking wether it'd be more wise to go VFR over France (provided the good weather).
So still it's too early to decide but I just wanted to bring in some food for thought :\
I have read IO540's writeup's (http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/index.html) but will read them again for a refresh :ok:
I would happily stop over at "interesting" GA airfields / cities for refuel along the way instead of midsized airports.
I can use Oxygen en route but would prefer FL080 to FL120 if not necessary to fly higher. Still I may use O2 for a more relaxed head :bored: upon arrival after 3~5 hours in the 10k+ levels.

[flyingfemme]

I've done UK to Athens a couple of times last year and one-stop is the way to go. Don't make more stops than you have to unless you are on vacation! Your TB20 should have more range than my Caravan so make that stop at Cannes - easy to use, cheap and quick.

Routes were :
CPT - N859 – DRAKE - A34 – KOVAK - H20 - DOMOD – A3 – NEV – R161 – AMFOU DCT LFMD
and
DCT SODRI – A3 – ELB – A1 – CDC – L869 - CRN
G8 – ARA – B34 – DDM – B1 - ATV - LGAV

Just reverse from your end. Once you are up there request direct routings to cut off any corners.

At FL090 and FL100 you don't need oxygen and routing up the west coast of Italy keeps you out of the busy Rome area, gives you a great view as well as dry land if you need it. Same with France - keep well clear of Paris and life is much simpler.

Long day but it is a day trip........enjoy!

[Wrong Stuff]

It looks like you've done all the hard work already!

If you do want airways to the west of Paris, the following should work:

-N0145F100 MEN A27 CFA R161 NEV A3 DOMOD H20 LGL A34 MID DCT SAM

I've never been in to EGHH, but I'd be surprised if you got much beyond SITET before London give you a DCT towards Southampton and Bournemouth.

[Kyprianos Biris]

FF:
If I enter via SITET (south of DRAKE) there is no link to EGHH arrivals.
Only option is to file for A34 MID but after that Eurocontrol validator does not accept routing towards SAM via R8 and HAZEL.
Your route is 616 nm

WS:
Your route is 709 nm but Eurocontrol validator still gets me off EGHH approved arrival via MID and then back west.
MEN seems a bit too westerly of a detour but I guess you suggested me this one for Montpellier and not Cannes.
Indeed DCT's may come on the fly but for fuel planning purposes I need to take the worst case scenario in consideration.

I am looking into an option of visiting my friends at Stapleford EGSG and fly next day to Bournemouth.
Therefore I may take the East of Paris route and fly to Stapleford anyway.
FF indeed Cannes seems a better option therefore I am considering these FPL's (stop over to LGKR for refuel) :
(FPL-SXATK-IG
-01TRIN/L-SDR/C
-LGKR1200
-N0145F120 TIGRA A14 BRD L995 PEMAR L5 OST P160 MEDAL A1 ELB R16 KERIT
-LFMD0530 LFMN
- )
Distance 650 nm
(FPL-SXATK-YG
-01TRIN/L-SDR/C
-LFMD1200
-N0145F100 PERUS A3 MOU B373 TRO G40 VATRI B3 RINTI L10 LAM VFR
-EGSG0500 EGTR
- )
Distance 620 nm

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a380/oal269/misc/route1.jpg

The aircraft has an 770~800 nm IFR range which makes it just ok for these legs since I expect headwinds as on most NWbound European flights.

Thanks for your suggestions :cool:

[S-Works]

If you plan to the Jersey Zone LERAK and then a DCT accross the zone to ORTAC you will then be able to fly the N866 to SAM. That is a much more direct route and will get accepted by Euro control. This takes you west of Paris.

[eyeinthesky]

If you come up via BILGO then H20 to XORBI and G40 to ABB you can link across to GWC via T27 to GURLU and then Y8 to GWC SAM EGHH.

[Kyprianos Biris]

BX:
Yes this route leads to THRED (before SAM) which is a STAR fix for EGHH but in the chart below checkout how far off my track this route is (the bit on the left). Also I will not be over familiar (IFR) soil ! and I'd prefer to avoid DCT's in my FPL to avoid last minute surprises (ATC not approving etc.).

EIS:
Yes this was my initial route (pink one in image below) but now I am thinking of flying first via Stapleford to meet my old mates.
The other route west of Paris, as you see, splits at MOU and rejoins at ABB with the route East of Paris since all EGHH inbounds from southeast come via WAFFU (or THRED via SW).

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a380/oal269/misc/route2.jpg

[S-Works]

You will get a pretty direct routing from LGL to the Jersey zone. The last 3 times I have flown the route I have been given pretty much a direct from KOVAK. The french are VERY laid back when it come to routes and the lower airways system is virtually empty most of the time.

[421C]

I agree with Bose.

From LGL, I would file

LGL R111 CAN G4 JSY DCT ORTAC N866 THRED then expect the NEDUL1A into EGHH or, if weather permits, it's faster to ask to leave the airway in the descent near THRED and fly direct

This is closer to track than the LERAK route, and, as Bose suggests, you should ask French ATC and may get something more direct from the LGL area to Ortac/Orist/Aspen

Do not worry about the "DCT" - you are fully IFR inside the Jersey Class A control zone. They are excellent and you will not get any surprises. JSY to Ortac is part of the SID/STARs for EGJJ and has no airways transiting it at lower level.

(I am based at EGHH and fly to/from LFMD piston IFR regularly)

rgds
421C

ps worth studying the LFMD plates carefully, they have some detailed circle to land routes you need to follow if inbound from the south but southerly landing. Have the VFR plates in case you transition to VFR or need to depart VFR - you must have the local VRPs to hand.
IFR departures are subject to Nice ATC. Occassionally, they will impose a slot delay. Be prepared to file a Z fpl DCT PERUS then IFR, PERUS is their zone boundary and they can't apply a delay to you.

[englishal]

IO540 has done a write up of VFR to Crete in a TB20 here:

http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/crete/index.html

[Kyprianos Biris]

englishal you did not read my very first post :)

[IO540]

The thing is, Kyprianos can go IFR and that makes a flight like this a piece of cake compared to going VFR.

Especially when it comes to stuff like there being no current VFR charts for the Albania/Greece region, and Montenegro being a bit difficult over VFR routings through their airspace. Whereas if you go IFR, nobody cares so long as you managed to stuff a valid route into the Eurocontrol computer.

Personally I don't think the Alps are an issue. They have loads of valleys and there are also many "flat enough" bits where one could force land. I would hesitate in the case of a solid overcast but in SCT or better it's just fine. Obviously oxygen is a must but then oxygen is a must for any serious touring otherwise you are chucking away (on a TB20) the top third, and the most enjoyable and safest third, of your vertical operating range.

Kyp - drop by at my house and I will fill up your o2 kit for you ;)

The most dangerous part on this trip will be joining the circuit at Stapleford, if arriving on a Sunday afternoon.

[BRL]

The most dangerous part on this trip will be joining the circuit at Stapleford, if arriving on a Sunday afternoon.
Classic!!!!!!! :ok:

Kyp, what date will you be in Bomo? Might come over and see you for a drink or two....(or you could stop at Shoreham on the way in....) :)

[Kyprianos Biris]

The most dangerous part on this trip will be joining the circuit at Stapleford, if arriving on a Sunday afternoon.

Hehe, that's where I did my NPPL,ME&IMC in 1990 and some 4~5 years of private flying later on so I'm somewhat familiar with the field.
BRL you spoil me, I may afterall make the Stapleford-Bomo a VFR and stopover to see my Shoreham based friends ;)

I'll reminiss all these first flying training experiences I had over Kent & Sussex :8
I'll let you know eventually what the final route will be.
I plan to arrive in the weekend of 20~22 April. It all depends on weather.
It may be earlier than this but not later.

[Kyprianos Biris]

Made it safe and sound.
The longest weekend trip I've ever flown.

Two time zones in one day's GA flying.

Athens LGMG - Kerkira LGKR 1:30 (the day before)
Kerkira LGKR - Cannes LFMD 4:50
Cannes LFMD - Stapleford EGSG 4:40
Stapleford EGSG - Shoreham EGKA - Bournemouth EGHH (the next two days) 1:10

All of the route was flown at FL120 with crystal clear weather without considerable headwinds. Abeam the Alps, N of Cannes, we met some high climbing TCU's and asked for a small diversion off PERUS SID track to avoid.


The pictures album :) :

http://hellasga.com/gallery/kyp?page=5

Album: "Athens to London flight" (bottom left)

Stapleford was busy indeed :}

[IO540]

Super trip, Kyp. Trips like this are an inspiration to many pilots, which is why they are always worth writing about.

Still, for a TB20 this is all in a day's work. To me, the most amazing thing is that you managed to land at Stapleford on a weekend ;)

[Kyprianos Biris]

To me, the most amazing thing is that you managed to land at Stapleford on a weekend
He he, I was familiar with the airfield since I did there my PPL back in 1990 and some 5 years of flying later. Yes it was kinda busy but it gets much worse at times. In page 7 top left pictures (55 & 56) you can see the C152 doing a touch n'go ahead of me.

The occasional problem (as you know ;) ) with uncontrolled fields is that you open up the circuit to provide space with slower landing traffic ahead and then another slower aircraft behind you may cut a corner and get in your way if the PIC does not respect priority :=
It did not happen to me this time.