Nimrods and similar

[AlexF]

Hi. I'm trying to find out if anyone other than the RAF operates Nimrod aircraft, or other aircraft that have a refuelling probe pointing forwards.

It may seem like a bizarre question, but I'm working on a TV programme hoping to film a display of St Elmo's fire, which tends to form around points. A refuelling probe is ideal, and can give a spectacular display from the cockpit.

It's a great shame the Met Office no longer flies 'Snoopy'! NOAA in the US seem to have a probe on at least one of their Orions, so I'm waiting to hear back from them on whether they encounter St Elmo.

Thanks for any help anyone can give me,

Alex

[Rainboe]

I think you may be talking about the properties of St. Elmos fire with ships. I do not think aeroplanes experience electrostatic discharging the same way. I have never heard of or seen the effect you describe. The only St. Elmo's fire I have heard of is the static discharge across a heated windscreen. I think you may be disapointed if you look for glowing effects on aircraft structures.
Why not ask in the Military Forum if any of them there have seen it? C130 Hercules transports have such refuelling booms.

[BOAC]

Alex - moving you to Mil for help. By the way, all receiver refuelling probes point forward:) (although some fighter controllers in my time did manouevre me so I would have backed onto the tanker).

As Rainboe says, the only 'fire' I have ever seen (quite a lot, incidentally) has been on a/c windshields.

[FJJP]

AlexF - why are you going round this subject again? You had 2 pages of replies between 16 Feb and 01 Mar:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=264441

Rainboe, I recommend you read the above...

[Pontius Navigator]

It was a not uncommon on piston engined aircraft such as the Varsity as they tended to fly in clouds that were condusive to St Elmo's Fire. On the Nimrod the phenomenon was rarer and often accompanied by a heart stopping bang.

[LFFC]

I guess you're talking about the glowing violet doughnut that forms around the tip of the refuelling probe. I'm told that it's really quite commonplace to see that at night when flying in high-level cloud. Why not talk to the boys and girls flying VC10s?

[TheSmiter]

Alex, your tenacity is impressive!

This whole phenomena has been covered on the previous thread in great depth; the information you should have gleaned is that we try and avoid these conditions if at all possible. IMHO, attempting to get a ride on one of HM's few remaining ancient chariots with a view to filming static discharges, strikes and plasma balls would probably be met with := unless of course your production company is prepared to pay a large wedge into Gordon's coffers! NOAA is your best bet for hunting adverse weather conditions: http://www.aoc.noaa.gov/aircraft_lockheed.htm

Doubt if you'll get better footage than that posted by gravanom on the previous thread #46. A bit long but gives a good indication why aviators don't like the bumbly stuff - not sure which is scarier, the wx or the boom op.!

[TheSmiter]

Critical Al, pull up a sandbag; you should have been around in the 80's mate. Mid winter (proper one), blacker than a witches t1t, somewhere over the Atlantic dodging bumblies and still hanging on to the target. I'm down the back loading buoys; on a crackly i/c, port beam reports glowing from the leading edge quickly followed by the loudest BANG with instant daylight ...... how I laughed as I then watched a glowing ball of blue energy dance gracefully down the tube towards me, before disappearing into thin air.

Fortunately I had a spare pair of clean shreds in me div bag (not Samsonite).

And we stayed on task and handed over hot. Marvellous.

[Pontius Navigator]

The Smiter, I made it late 70s. Must have been more than one then :).

Same as you, f***ing dark hundred, about 10k in nimbly bumbus, then gawd awful bang. Everything kept working so, so did we. We had something like 4 or 5 strikes over the next 30 minutes of so until we, or the cloud, drifted away.

[Hoots]

As has been mentioned, on the Nimrod the probe gets it also the wing leading edges and engine intakes. Last time I saw it was only a few weeks ago. There was some thunderstorm activity in the vicinity.

[donpizmeov]

Are these Nimrods part of the museum flight?

Don

[PPRuNeUser0172]

or other aircraft that have a refuelling probe pointing forwards.


What, as opposed to ones that point backwards:D

[Mr Point]

St. Elmo's fire certainly does occur on the Nimrod, particularly across the leading edge and upper surfaces on the wing when conditions are right.

When flying when during a high TS risk and whilst IMC, it can be very impressive (in a standby for lightening strike way :eek: ).

[Snow Dog]

Seen it several times, usually preceded by static dancing around the wiperarms. And despite all the good advice, you can't help but stare at it.
Funnything though, whenever it's been visible - there's been no lightning strike. Those occur with NO warning!

[AlexF]

OK guys, I apologise for seeming to flog this subject to death but it is my main day-job to work out how we can film St Elmo's! I'm really grateful to everyone who has helped me so far.

Some people seem to have never, or rarely, come across St Elmo's whilst for others it's a very regular occurence whilst flying, and it seems to me that there are two reasons for this. One is flying different routes (plus some people don't have the option of avoiding the rain/hail clouds that seem to be best at creating it), and the other is the type of aircraft. St Elmo's tends to form on sharp edges and points, and it seems that refuelling rods right above the cockpit give the best view - hence my question about which aircraft (other than the Nimrod and the Hercules C-130, which I know about) also have this arrangement. I do apologise for my lack of knowledge on this, and thank you to everyone who has helped me.

Alex

[Pontius Navigator]

Alex, PROBES not rods.

The E3D at Waddington also has a probe but, as you rightly surmise, has no need to fly in conditions conducive to St Elmo's Fire. Similarly the VC10, TriStar and C130 have probes.

Other aircraft such as the Sea Harrier, Lightning, Buccanneer also had probes as do many other US Navy Aircraft. Unfortunately for you, the types listed have all been out of service for some time.

Modern fast-jets, such as Tornado (sorry chaps), Typhoon, Harrier have retractable probes which are only extended when needed.

With the exception of the C130, these types can all avoid conditions conducive to St Elmo's Fire. The C130 will most times also be able to avoid flight in such conditions.

[mystic_meg]

Similarly the VC10, TriStar and C130 have probes.

Really? So where is this probe on the TriStar then?

[BEagle]

No longer fitted - but I've got some interesting video of a TriStar prodding a RNZAF A-4 some years ago!

[ZH875]

Wasn't there also pictures of a Buccaneer tanking a Tri* as well?

[Pontius Navigator]

Thank you BEages, I guess the answer to the question on T* probes is 'in the shed'.

[FE Hoppy]

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sA-Hk_jnPg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sA-Hk_jnPg)[URL=www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sA-Hk_jnPg[/URL]
utube St Elmos from US mil aircraft flighdeck.

[AlexF]

Oops - sorry about the 'rods' - don't know where that came from.

Thank you so much for all this information - that's really useful.

Alex

[PerArdua]

Wasn't there also pictures of a Buccaneer tanking a Tri* as well?

There was a photo at BZN in the school of the Buccaneer tanking a Tristar. Very impressive picture always looked like the Tristar was stalling.

PA