Qantas FA of 32 years sacked over chocolates....

[speedbirdhouse]

From Todays Sydney Morning Herald-:yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

Just nuts: another Qantas attendant sacked


Jacqueline Maley

March 12, 2007

JUST weeks after one of its flight attendants was busted for getting too close to a certain well-known male passenger, Qantas has disciplined another of its hosties. This time the alleged crime is a little less serious than sex with a passenger while on duty: Philip Woodward-Brown was sacked for allegedly pocketing chocolates.
Individually-wrapped chocolate-covered macadamia nuts, to be precise.
In a case set to begin before the Australian Industrial Relations Commission today, Qantas will defend claims of unfair dismissal by Mr Woodward-Brown, who worked for the airline for 32 years before his career was abruptly terminated last August.
Mr Woodward-Brown was searched by Qantas security officials as he clocked off in Tokyo, after flying in from Melbourne. They found 11 chocolates in his bag and five in his pockets. He was also carrying two individually wrapped biscuits.
The 57-year-old flight attendant was stood down while a three-month investigation took place. He was then sacked, in keeping with Qantas's policy of "zero tolerance" to theft.
Mr Woodward-Brown will be represented by his union, the Flight Attendants Association of Australia, in the coming arbitration. It is believed his lawyers will argue the chocolates and biscuits were "essential tools of trade". They will say it is usual for flight attendants to carry items like chocolates, sugar sachets and coffee stirrers to hand out to passengers. Just as an office worker might take home pens or paper from their job, so Mr Woodward-Brown inadvertently brought some items off the plane.
The secretary of the union, Michael Mijatov, said Qantas had been over zealous with discipline for the past four years, since it put in place non-cabin-crew ground managers to keep crew in line.
"They are now applying much more scrutiny to the crew than before," Mr Mijatov said.
"We feel the quality of decision making by Qantas managers in relation to the disciplinary processes has not been of a sufficiently high order."
The president of the union, Steven Reid, said Mr Woodward-Brown's sacking was "most uncharitable". "They haven't established an act of theft under any reasonable test of law. There is no indication there was ever any intent to steal anything."
A spokesman said Qantas would not comment on the case.

[LadyMatilda]

They found 11 chocolates in his bag and five in his pockets. He was also carrying two individually wrapped biscuits.
It is believed his lawyers will argue the chocolates and biscuits were "essential tools of trade". They will say it is usual for flight attendants to carry items like chocolates, sugar sachets and coffee stirrers to hand out to passengers.
And I suppose that the chokkies in his bag were to distribute to the passengers while they waited in the customs line...? :=
keeping with Qantas's policy of "zero tolerance" to theft
I think it goes something like "You pay your money, you take your chances"

[lowerlobe]

Since we are not privy to the full details and the case has not been heard yet perhaps it is wise if we wait until a decision has been made before we comment futher...

[keeperboy]

It's the same at BA.

Get caught with a mini bottle of wine in your bag: Sacked.
Get caught trying to steal a 747: Sacked.

Mind you, a few crew have gotten away with it by very cleverly playing the 'i have a problem, i am a kleptomanic' card.

[W_18]

Could you advise me how to steal a 474,
it would be nice to do just to piss Willie off.
:8

[Virginia]

At my airline everyone steals from the bar!

[Eddy]

There's always (well, usually) something more to these stories than meets the eye.

Perhaps this fella had been guilty of misconduct in the past, but had done something(s) that the airline, though frowning upon, could not actually dismiss him for.

Theft is a real trump card for the airlines. Everyone nicks the odd thing from the jet now and again - a bar of chocolate for the bus ride to the hotel, a newspaper, even a tube of lip-balm (unopened) from a discarded amenities bag... All technically theft and all sackable offences.

Would the airline, however, sack their prize employee for nicking one of these items?! I doubt it. Would the airline use this an an excuse to sack someone who is continually in trouble but not for things that the airline could show him the door over? Absolutely.

Crafty? Sneaky? Snide? Perhaps.

Clever? Without a doubt.

Perhaps this poor fella's problem was merely that he had been with the airline for 32 years and was earning more than the company wanted to pay him. They had two options :

1) pay him off (costly!) or let him work out his time (also costly!)
2) sack him

They appear to have opted for the latter.

[priapism]

Sounds like a cheap form of compulsary redundancy to me.

[anotherspaceman]

He was then sacked, in keeping with Qantas's policy of "zero tolerance" to theft.

Sounds like he was a thief to me!

[sebby]

Qantas crew are so often searched, I have been subject to at least 5 at different hotels.

They are really stricty and as crew we are very aware of this. They make it very clear at training and regular memos/flyers that Qantas property is not to leave the aircraft with crew unless you have prior authority. This includes food and in some cases crew water that is supplied for drinking mid duty, not at your hotel.

[twiggs]

We all have had enough warning about removing stuff from the aircraft, so if the facts are as they have been reported here, I don't think he has a hope.
Anyway, the Meiji chocolate in Japan is so nice and less than 100 yen, so why would you bother?

[samford]

Maybe they shouldn't have taken the chocolate bar off our crew snack :}

[air doris]

I was always told when I started flying years ago and with several carriers that no airline property is to leave the aircraft, not even your crew food/drink or it's your job. This is something I have always tried to adhere to and I just don't see the point when you are paid allowances to cover your expences. Really what is a bottle of water or a tea bag (or a chocolate) out of your money compared to the cost to the airline if it was deemed ok for all of us to do this? I completely understand the company point of view (even though these chocs would have been diced anyway) however, don't we all carry the odd sachet of "brenclear" in our pocket, you know a pax asks for one so you take three incase someone else wants one, the pens (which should be provided anyway) and now I'm worrying about the pile of coat tags I have. These items "are" essential work tools that do inadvertadently end up in your pocket after work, I'm sure we all have them and my god what use are they to us out side of work anyway, the pens dont work. Sure the odd chocky in your pocket could be deemed a mistake but to have that amount and found in your bag sounds to me like these were intended for future use. They are delicious. My point is just don't put yourself in this position where the company can accuse you of theft. I know it's only chocolate but why put them in your bag? Even if he had intended to use them on future flights whats the point when they have to be declared to customs. Yes you have to declare food to Japanese customs just like Australia. If the searches among crew have been so prevelent that should have been a deterrant. I still see so many crew taking the odd thing here and there, really it is not worth your job, especially if you have been flying as long as the accused.

[stubby jumbo]

Astute observation Eddy-you've nailed it.


The Visitors have had him in their sights fo a while.

Once you've got a "File" ....then you're on the endangered list.:(

Hang the expense-GAME OVER

[priapism]

Why have the visitors had him in their sights for a while??

[radiation junkie]

No, I don't think the visitors had him in their sights .
Yes, according to Q this is theft and I basically see all the points of view here and can't really disagree. However, there is a fine line between theft by cabin crew or theft by office workers or especially management. Yes, I can understand Q has become very strict on theft of alcohol and aircraft equipment. But I still can't come to grips with this rabid vendetta with such trivial stuff that is no cost value to Q as it would have been removed by ground handling and "destroyed". I have 27 years of LH flying and all this latest incident does is make my "disengagement" from Q even stronger. With a couple of years left to my retirement, I will not put myself in the same situation, but I just find the whole thing sad, petty and loaded with hypocrisy when you consider what our so called Management "steal" from Q and it's staff. Not to mention the "$$$$" this will cost Q and the FAAA by the time this gets sorted one way or the other.

But, as Lowerlobe stated "Since we are not privy to the full details and the case has not been heard yet perhaps it is wise if we wait until a decision has been made before we comment further..."

[AOskippy]

Air Doris,

I've always been told by FAAA representatives that anything on our crew tray/crew sandwitch is ours to keep. Hope it's true. And as far as I'm aware, crew water bottle is purchaseable for $1, as long as you keep the receipt. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Virginia]

At my airline we can take ALL crew food and water-this is allowed and we have had an email sent to confirm we can do this. Most crew take stuff from the bar which is naughty! Ie Pringles and Cookies cos our crew food is a bit crap!

[TopBunk]

I think that some of those you admit to doing it/condone his actions need to think about what your feelings would be if the situation were reversed.

What if after every visit by a cleaner you employ, you find a packet of ciggies or a packet of biscuits had gone missing. Would you think that it was ok - a perk of being a cleaner, or would you get drop hints or even get rid of them?

Or do you consider that being a big organisation makes it ok? Why?

[radiation junkie]

AOskippy.... Q charges $3 for crew water which costs them approx 75c per large bottle in the huge quantities they purchase. Go figure.
TopBunk....Yes we get your drift, however you are comparing apples with sultanas.
After my cleaner leaves, my kitchen is not cleared out by catering and all remaining food items in my fridge and cupboards discarded.
As far as QANTAS equipment, dry stores and or alcohol, which will be used for following sectors, yes I concur with all comments regards theft.
Not even the FAAA will defend that one these days.
As far as a few chocolates are concerned, it is saving something from the "trash", which in my opinion, makes the action taken by QANTAS, petty, vindictive and laced with hypocricy.

[lowerlobe]

The case I believe is being held today in the AIRC in Sydney.It will be intersting to hear the outcome and for his sake I hope the decision either way is reached today and not drawn out..

[radiation junkie]

I also hope this fiasco is resolved in a positive way for the incumbent. Unfortunately, I have lost all faith in "fair play" when it comes to Q these days. They have this "lock jaw" mentality and will rather spend $millions$ than concede how stupid they all look, regardless of their policy regarding this incident.
Just a quick comparison: while I was waiting to see my so called "team manager" , I observed a bundle of paper being placed in a plastic bag by one of the admin staff.
Noticing my observation, gave a big smile and said, "this is left over paper from a memo that has been photocopied on one side already". Such a shame to throw it out, when my kids at home can use it to scribble on. I do hate waste" !

End of story....

[sebby]

Similarly I overheard a ground staff member who was paxing the other day discussing some very personal "in house" information regarding the fleet with a frequent flyer. I told the csm and she was spoken to.

Another time a CSM was informed by a passenger that he heard (this is unrelated to the topic im sorry) part of one of the MAM intakes discussing the access process to the flight deck.

Unfortunately it is different rules for different people in this group of companies and I know that I would fall into the "discipline immediately" group so I ensure I dont do anything to put me in the line of fire, this includes hoarding those delicious chocolates.

[RooEng]

I also agree with Eddy

radiation junkie, Do you really have to pay for water?

You all should see what happens after the crew leaves. Everyone waits patiently for the last crew member to leave, then it's a free-for-all. The very people who warn us not to take anything off the plane are the ones who take the most. Even the security gaurds.

This is typical a$$ backwards Q mentality. "Look how much $$$ we saved by getting rid of a thief that steals trash."

Another example; Q spends $$$$ to sends 20+ nonunion members of manegment 2-3 weeks twice a year to LAX for ramp training, so just in case of a strike, they can do the ramp's job instead of just giving that $ to the ramp workers.

I hope Philip keeps his job, nobody deserves to get sacked over some thing so petty