Waterfront?

[peppermint_jam]

Morning all, thought I'd ask what might turn out to be quite a stupid question.

Why is the Airfield side of hangars called the waterfront? Is it something we've picked up from the Navy? Is there some historic significance? Or is it a simple reason I'm just too daft to figure out on my own?

p_j

[MightyGem]

It's puzzled me as well. Look forward t the answer.

[Talk Wrench]

Guess you must be at Cottesless then :}

[peppermint_jam]

Not Cottesless, nightMAReHAM.

[stevef]

Something to do with the seaplane days, perhaps; doors open and down the ramp to the water?

[The Helpful Stacker]

Its something we picked up from our RNAS roots, although we let them keep the Sea Kings they were operating at the time and brought ourseleves something newer.;)

[Pontius Navigator]

First time I came across it was at Waddo in late 80s so that shoots the tradition bit. True there more ex-8 guys from early days there than at Lossie.

OTOH is was waterfront. The acres of ashpalt in front of the sheds (seaplane) when wet looked like wet waater that wet tarmac.

[Gainesy]

I was RAF 1967-1977, never heard the expression in this context, including at Honington where the WAFU Buccs came ashore. Mind you, "Main Gate" was then where the Snoops played bouncy barrier and not some contractbollocks.

[The Real Slim Shady]

The waterfront was always being on the staff at CFS as I recall. However, there are other expressions bandied around but I have absolutely no idea whasoever of their roots.

For example " My oppo" meaning my friend or mate. "Stacking" for quitting work and going home. Any ideas?

[FJJP]

I believe there was an Air Marshall Stack, who, in his lower command years would cut no nonsense about guys having to wait around the crewroom for 5 o'clock before going home, as many of the COs insisted.

He frequently told guys that if they had finished their work they should bu**er off home to the missus.

The term 'stack' became the word to describe this process.

Or so I believe...

[BEagle]

No - it comes from 'stack up the chairs and go' or somesuch.

AVM T N Stack was Commandant at pre-comprehensive RAFC Cranwell when I was a Flt Cdt nearly 40 years ago - a very nice chap he was too!

[FATTER GATOR]

Doesn't 'oppo' mean Opposite Number (or have I just been the subject of a WAAAH?:rolleyes: ).

[cyclic gal]

The term "Oppo" I believe comes from the term Opposite number, the guy/gal in the Opposite Watch on board a ship. When he/She took over from you at the start of their Watch, you could go to bed. Therefore they were your "friend". Never heard Waterfront though.

[RETDPI]

First heard "waterfront" from the USAF in about '73.
Yes Beags, TN Stack was a gentleman- died a few year's back as very recently has the then Air Cdr R. (Dickie) Wakeford who was ASCOM when we were crows.

[Art Field]

Waterfront was certainly used in the Flying Training world circa 1965 to describe the flight line as though that was the dockside and the airfield was wet. I guess the Navy slipped that one in.

[BEagle]

RETDPI - Air Cdre Wakeford was also a gent, I agree.

And the sight of his rather nice daughter at the front of the CoE Church during our mandatory Sunday Church attendance gladdened the heart of many a 'crow'......:E

Arters - not too sure I'd want to be around when the Navy slips something in...:ooh:

[tmmorris]

Wasn't there a rumour of someone ringing Stack at 3.00pm or so on a Friday...

rrring rrring. Boss answers.

'Stack!'

'Why, thank you, sir.' Rings off.

All go home happy...

Tim

[Wholigan]

I have never heard the term “waterfront” used on any front line station, so I confess that is new to me. However, I have certainly been led to believe that the term “waterfront” was introduced through the following historical story of the development of CFS.

CFS was formed at Upavon in Wiltshire on 12 May 1912. The primary aim was not to produce aviators as such, but professional war pilots. This was to be achieved by accepting for advanced training only men who already held a Royal Aero Club Certificate, although they were offered a refund of part of their expenses incurred in private tuition. Having obtained their Pilots Certificates in order to qualify for the course, the students were taught to fly all types of aircraft available at the school. CFS quickly became one of the main centres for experimental and research flying.

By the outbreak of war in August 1914 the CFS had contributed 93 pilots to the Royal Flying Corps. A rapid expansion took place and by the end of 1915 the basic training policy was for all pupils to do their ab-initio flying at one of the Reserve Squadrons, and then pass on to CFS or to a service squadron for advanced training.

A major fault of the Royal Flying Corps at this time was its lack of standardization. One of the main critics in the field was Major Smith-Barry, and in 1916 he put his thoughts on paper. He wanted a School for Instructors in flying where all instructors would have their flying brought up to a high standard necessary to enable them to teach with confidence and ease, and where they would be given definite lines upon which to instruct. He also recommended the introduction of dual controls so that pupils could learn to fly to the limits of their aircraft.

Smith-Barry was brought home from France and given command of a squadron at Gosport where he could put his ideas into practice. He soon had his school operating on dual controlled Avro 504Js, Bleriots and Bristol Scouts. The standard of flying improved still more after the introduction of the Gosport tube, which enabled the instructor to converse easily and comfortably with his pupil, a capability which had previously been restricted to the few moments of quiet before and during a stall.

Pilot training became both quicker and more efficient and the system was adopted throughout the training school. In 1918 the Royal Flying Corps and the Royal Naval Air Service were amalgamated to form the Royal Air Force and as part of the reorganisation, in 1920 CFS became the Flying Instructors School tasked to carry on the work started at the School of Special Flying at Gosport.

Gosport was – literally – “on the waterfront” and the term came into common use to describe the operating area of the school. This term has stuck to and followed CFS ever since such that the hangar and line area of CFS has continually been known as “the waterfront”.

As a post-script ---- all I can say is “curse that bugger Smith-Barry”! :E :E :E

[Yellow Sun]

Gosport was – literally – “on the waterfront” and the term came into common use to describe the operating area of the school. This term has stuck to and followed CFS ever since such that the hangar and line area of CFS has continually been known as “the waterfront”.

An entertaining and plausible theory Wholigan, certainly when I went through CFS at Rissington the term was in common use. However I have just had a quick leaf through Frank Tredreys' book "Pilot's Summer - Central Flying School Diary", an account of his CFS course in 1935 and cannot find any reference to "the waterfront". His flying was carried out at "the flights", as was my basic flying training some 30 years later.
Looking in the book "RAF Little Rissington - The Central Flying School Years", I found the first use of the term "waterfront" in an entry relating to 1965. That of course only shows that term was in use when the author wrote the item (sometime post 1965) not that it was used contemporaneously.
There we go, Sunday afternoon anoraking over!:8
YS

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Are you guys aware that there is an exciting afternoon of classic sport available for all to see as it's on BBC. The glory of that great British tradition, the FA Cup footy and of course the England Rugby team recovering from last weeks mauling to give a well deserved mashing to the garlic knoshers.........although I have to say that if I were lucky enough to own a copy of Little Rissington - The Early Years then it's quite likely that the televisual delights I have been enjoying may have gone on hold in favour a that rip roaring read:p

[Wholigan]

Oh God SwitchMonkey - I knew I shouldn't have posted that. I'm never gonna live it down with me mates!!:O

[NRU74]

SwitchMonkey
Is that you then on the bike in the Caption Competition ?

[Yellow Sun]

Are you guys aware that there is an exciting afternoon of classic sport available for all to see as it's on BBC

Yes, it's the final day of Crufts! Where the competitors are of much better breeding!

YS

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Spherically challenged then Yellow Sun :p

[Farfrompuken]

First came across the term at Brize. Main bay area.
Heard it used on occasion at Linton (CFS).
Never considered why tho'

[Mmmmnice]

Wholigan - may I applaud you for a thoroughly convincing explanation and shame on anyone who doubts the veracity of it. Personally, I have only heard the term when enjoying the delights of CFS at Scampton. On a barely related theme - does anyone know the origin of the term 'beefer'? usually to describe a QHI (but not a QFI - as far as I know)

[Blacksheep]

In all my years the airfield side of the hangars was "Out on the line". Thirty years after handing in the blue suit, even out here in Borneo, it still is. There is also the expression "Airside" that I've only ever heard as a civilian.
We did have a waterfront at Changi, but that was outside the yacht club bar. Seletar had a waterfront too, for launching flying boats or giving Belvederes enough room to climb away without bumping into anything.

Meanwhile the hairy-arse matelots called their not inconsiderable bit of waterfront "Dockside."

Then at Gan, there was more than enough water for everyone, but it was called "Oggin' " - even though they had a Marine Craft pier. Gannites were much given to Oggin' Troggin'. They'd have been much bemused to hear it described as a waterfront.

So, its just a namby-pamby training unit thing... :hmm:

[Wholigan]

Hey SwitchMonkey - did the guys ever get away to play cricket, or did they have to wait around specifically not flying their one trip a week?

:E

[Arm out the window]

'Beefer' would have to derive from 'B for ... ', wouldn't it?

[whiz]

I thought Beefer derived from Basic Flying Instructor Rotary = BFIR

Or maybe it was B for ... aptitude :ok:

[spectre150]

And there was I thinking a beefer was someone of a certain sexual persuasion. I really dont know how else to say that without being non-PC.

[22/7 Master]

I believe the RAF call it water-front as the aircrew there are always dripping.

[NRU74]

22/7
It certainly isn't because all the engineering chaps look like Marlon Brando