choices choices

[stevoneil]

Im faced with the option of continueing my learning (2 hrs) in an old beat up Cessna 150 or an old beat up pa28 each for £140 an hour. which one should I choose? for an extra £20 an hour I can fly in an new Diamond Star. The obviouse answer to which is the better plane is the new Diamond Star but I want to learn in the easier aircraft that will get me to my licence quickest???

[S-Works]

neither is "easier" than the other. pilot skills, airmanship etc don't change. Its down to personal chouice, some people think crappy old aircraft with naff all avionics are quant. Personally I would take the Diamond star on the grounds they are nice to look at and fly and have lots of bells and whistles. But it's down to what you can afford.

[oliversarmy]

Go for the Cessna or the Piper then the Diamond star when you have the licence.

I fly the diamond star now after learning on Cessna and Piper's - training with the bells and whistle's makes you too comfortable and hard to transition back to the cessna or piper when the school cant afford the diamond lease rates !!;)

[BackPacker]

Fly the 150 or the pa28. It will teach you how to properly do carb heat and all the other things required to make an avgas guzzling engine tick. Plus, these aircraft are not as critical as the diamond with regards to speeds and such. After you got your PPL, do a conversion course (two flights plus a bit of groundschool or so) to the Diamond (assuming it's a TDI). I did just that and I found that
- Diamond engine management (TDI) is much easier. No carb heat, magneto check, mixture, whatever. Just one button which tests the FADECs and that's it.
- The speeds at which you need to fly the Diamond on final and your landing technique in general are much more critical. If your speed is a tad too high (and that depends on actual weight as well), or you hold off not quite enough, you're in for a big bounce (due to the spring leaf suspension). On a PA-28 at least (I don't know about the 150), the oleos take a lot of abuse before bouncing you back in the air.

Another thing with the Diamond is that the cockpit is more cramped in the sense that there's not as much place to put maps, kneeboards and other stuff. You don't have your complete lap free for all sorts of paperwork, because the stick is right there next to your crotch. So it's much more important to be organised before the flight.

So as far as I'm concerned, the PA-28 is a better aircraft for learning, since it is representative of what 90% of todays GA fleet flies. The Diamond is a better aircraft for touring once you've got a bit more experience.

Oh, and don't be impressed with the higher cruise speed. To obtain the PPL you need 45 flight hours, not a certain number of miles. It doesn't matter whether those 45 hours were spent at 90 knots or at 115.

[jamestkirk]

steve

You cannot go wrong with a C150 or PA28. And as most schools/clubs have them you can easily rent one without the hassle of doing a conversion.

Training wise is just personal preference. Some people swear by either one. I instruct on both and i like the space in a PA28 but can do more in a Cessna 152.

Comfort is a main issue.

Someone made a point about things like old dials and carb heat and they are right.On average the vast majority of engine failures are carb ice induced. The vast majority of aircraft out there are carb driven. Things like that get you in the habit of checking when you go from injection to carb. powered etc.

I would advice what others did here and learn in a good, comfortable and reliable spam can and then go to something with a little more gravitas.

On a purely personal note, I cannot see the attraction with the diamond star. A powerful PA28, Arrow,Cirrus or Cessna 182 would be a much better laugh.

JTK

[Wessex Boy]

I have switched from C150/172 to a PA28 and enjoy the space, comfort and Rudder Trim, but on the downside it is a heavier aircraft and the extra speed enables you to arrive at the scene of the incident earlier:bored:

[the dean]

stevo,

i have instructed in 150/152/172/172xp/pa28/38 etc over the years and now in 172 with the diesel engine...and i would prefer to learn in ..first...an aircraft that was not too easy to fly..and second with FADEC..i feel that you are best with something that has all the old things and then try the new.

if you learn the new..you almost will still fly one of the older types at some stage..since there still are relatively few glass cockpit and FADEC equipped things about...and i'll bet you will forget to do mag checks...land without carb heat...forget to lean the mixture etc etc....whereas if you do it the other way round...you are less likely to forget in the event of reverting to the older model at some stage...

having said that, of course, as people move on and times do and equipment changes they have to use whats available...for instance i would not expect that all airline pilots of the future flying the very latest will have started off in a tiger moth. times move on. sooner or later as more glass cockpit trainers are available and less of the old steam engined ones are around then people will of necessity learn on glass cockpit and FADEC aircraft and never know the older ones.

you are lucky...you stll have a chance to do both...take it and be part of the nostalgia that goes with it..( not many of us can say ' i learned on a tail dragger ' . i did and i would'nt change that for the world..!!. it does'nt necessarily make me a netter pilot but i enjoyed it..

in the end it is a matter of choice. the diamond wo'nt make you get your licence any faster....but i would'nt miss the opportunity or challange to fly things that might take a little more to handle. i think you will reap the reward for doing it..:D

one way or the other..good luck..:ok:

gear up.

the dean.

[stevoneil]

thanks for the info guys ive decided to carry on in the c152 as although its old and beat up I think i will learn better and theres something charming about flying an aircraft with levers etc.

I had my 3rd lesson today and then straight afterwards passed my 1st exam (met) which im really proud of! stung with a bill of £264 tho for my kneeboard, hr lesson, exam, checklist and logbook which meant i had to canx sundays lesson but passing this exam has spurred me on to get my head into another subject instead.

[kevmusic]

£264 tho for my kneeboard, hr lesson, exam, checklist and logbook

:ooh::ooh::ooh:

[jamestkirk]

Well done for the met exam. But probably as you've already been told, get the air law done ASAP.

You CAN go solo without it but most flight schools will probably insist it's done before you go on the second solo.

Air law is really boring so go through the pain for the gain. The rest of the exams are not too bad.