Is your log book a legal document?

[G_STRING]

Hi

I'm "temporarily unsure of the position" of my logbook.

I know that if you do lose it, you have to notify the CAA with an afidavid (don't know if that's spelt correctly), detailing your hours.

What I'd like to know is - is your logbook a LEGAL document (ie do all flights you do have to go in it by law), or is it a personal record of your flights. If you forget to put one in, (or in my case, can't remember all the flights), does it matter, and are you liable to prosecution at all, should you get it wrong.

Any replies by someone who knows much appreciated!

[englishal]

I imagine if you forgot a few, it wouldn't matter. I also imagine that if you unintentionally entered a flight you didn't make, then again mistakes happen and it wouldn't be the end of the world (no one would know anyway). However, if you started filling in pages of false flights to boost your hours then you could have a real problem.

The FAA system is quite good. Every time you do a rating or test you fill out an 8710 form which is submitted to the FAA. On this form you detail all your hours (night, Instrument etc...) and it is then signed by the examiner (who has checked your logbook). If you then went and lost your logbook, you could go back to the last 8710 and this would be counted as 100% proof of your flight experience. Of course anything since this time would have to be backed up with a sworn afithingy......

[the dean]

i'm in JAAland so someone better informed in your jurisdiction will no doubt help...but our laws were much the same as yours before we changed...and to my recollection...whereas the log book is not a legal document as such ...like a passport... it is a legal record of your flights and you are obliged by law to keep it up to date...( you should log each flight as you do it and not rely on your memory as you may innocently but incorrectly log one or more and it may look like deliberate if for instance you inadvertantly inflate the duration of any flight by mistake..)

there are regulations about keeping it...as for instance recording each and every flight...and keeping the book for a specified number of years after finishing it...

you cannot be prosecuted for a mistake but you can if you deliberatly falsify the recorded times or entries...:=

hope thts of some help..

the moral is keep it safely...and up to date...with accurate entries...and all will be well..:ok:

the dean.

ps ....not sure about your reg. if you lose it but what you say sounds right...just in case someone was to ''lose'' a book that had 800 hours in it and then start a new one with 1250 in it to begin with...!!!!:=

[G_STRING]

Thanks for replies.

If it is a legal document, (log book), do you know where the definitions can be found in the ANO or ICAO?

I really want to be sure of all this, just in case I can't find it, and have to contact the CAA

Thanks

[Quickloop]

Plan ahead!

I photograph a/c and personal logbooks, and other important stuff regularly. I think that's easy compared to fixing things when they go wrong.

[OpenCirrus619]

See: Section 1, Part 4, Page 12, Para 35 of the ANO.

The ANO can be found at: CAP 393 (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP393.PDF)

OC619
[Edited to correct para number - thanks BillieBob :ok: ]

[the dean]

not sure what you mean by ''legal document''.

as i said it is a legal record and as such needs to be preserved.

if you've lost it...so what...you're not going to be admonished for that.people often lose things...but better to admit it before too long goes by or you may be criticised ,...not for loosing it, but for failing to keep one up to date.

go talk to your CFI and ask his advice...( i assume you are a student).

in the meantime keep an accurate record of your flights.

whether a log book is defined in your LASORS as '' legal' document is surely academic...

gear up.:ok:

the dean.

[BillieBob]

What is meant by 'legal document' in this context is, presumably, a document, the keeping of which is a legal requirement. The maintenance of a personal flying logbook is a legal requirement under Statutory Instrument 2005 No.1970, otherwise known as the Air Navigation Order 2005. Specifically, it is Article 35 of the Order that details the legal requirement for a personal flying log book, including that the particulars of each flight are entered at the end of each flight or as soon thereafter as is reasonably practical.

So, to answer the questions that were originally asked - Yes, the logbook is a legal document and Yes, it matters (in law) if you forget to put one in. However, I don't think you need to worry about Mr Plod knocking at your door just because you forgot to enter the odd flight so long as there was no intent to deceive. Neither would I worry too much about contacting the CAA - they get this sort of thing all the time and, contrary to popular belief, can be quite human at times

Incidentally, OC619, Section 1, Part 4, Page 12, Para 25 of the ANO does not exist - you mean Section 1, Part 4, Page 12, Para 35 of CAP 393, which is a copy of Article 35 of the ANO 2005.

[Mike Cross]

As stated above by OpenCirrus619
Art 35 of the ANO. Note this details what you MUST record. Nothing to stop you adding anything else in addition.
Personal flying log book
35 (1) Every member of the flight crew of an aircraft registered in the United Kingdom and every person who engages in flying for the purpose of qualifying for the grant or renewal of a licence under this Order shall keep a personal flying log book in which the following particulars shall be recorded:
(a) the name and address of the holder of the log book;
(b) particulars of the holder’s licence (if any) to act as a member of the flight crew of an aircraft; and (c) the name and address of his employer (if any).
(2) Particulars of each flight during which the holder of the log book acted either as a member of the flight crew of an aircraft or for the purpose of qualifying for the grant or renewal of a licence under this Order, as the case may be, shall be recorded in the log book at the end of each flight or as soon thereafter as is reasonably practicable, including:
(a) the date, the places at which the holder embarked on and disembarked from the aircraft and the time spent during the course of a flight when he was acting in either capacity;
(b) the type and registration marks of the aircraft;
(c) the capacity in which the holder acted in flight;
(d) particulars of any special conditions under which the flight was conducted, including night flying and instrument flying; and
(e) particulars of any test or examination undertaken whilst in flight.
(3) For the purposes of this article, a helicopter shall be deemed to be in flight from the moment the helicopter first moves under its own power for the purpose of taking off until the rotors are next stopped.
(4) Particulars of any test or examination undertaken whilst in a flight simulator shall be recorded in the log book, including:
(a) the date of the test or examination;
(b) the type of simulator;
(c) the capacity in which the holder acted; and
(d) the nature of the test or examination.

Interestingly you'll note that it does not include a requirement to log take-offs and landings.

[Hour Builder]

I know that if you do lose it, you have to notify the CAA with an afidavid (don't know if that's spelt correctly), detailing your hours.


This isn't really the case. If you lose your logbook, you are required to get an affidavit detailing your hours as best you can, however this is not something you then have to submit to the CAA.

All you do is glue it in the front of your new logbook, and keep going. The CAA only need to see it when looking through your logbook when you apply for a rating/licence so they can match up the totals.

HB