Profit Share

[Arcla]

So........ from PC - "I am pleased to announce that staff will get a share of the rewards this time, equivalent to 6.4 days of monthly salary plus a lump sum of HK$6,000 or half a month’s salary, whichever is lower. "

Better than nothing me thinks...Ducking for cover now:E :E :E

[Feather Boa]

Arcla
Based on your calc's, us across the road will be getting 1.6 days plus $1500...
Fx

[elgringo]

what a joke.

[backspace]

Bit of a joke.

Time to push for that pay rise me thinks!

[Freehills]

FFS, it is better than nothing! Better than last year anyway.

If you want more share of the profits, call your bank and ask to buy CX shares. Not rocket science.

[7FF]

more than a bottle of beer..........
for those of us that remember.

[Arcla]

This may not be the world of money to us but its alot to the cabin crew and ground staff...I say take what you can get!
Anyway it will pay for my Seven's beer bill!!!!:E

[sizematters]

throw a few crumbs to the headless chickens....................stops them sqwarking for a bit.........................

is this a joke or what ??

[HKG Phooey]

:ugh:

Seriously.... this is a joke right?

a joke that makes me :yuk: so i'm off work now untill i get a pay rise :*

[tifters]

Yeah well did anyone expect anything else???
Is easy to say we should be happy with what we got but i remember the days of getting a few weeks p/s when we made this kind of money. I believe most people are just dissapointed in general with the company and these things just add to their woes.
I did say in another post, i would be happy to vote out p/s for a small pay rise, so we dont have to go through this every year!! Now before you all get on your horses, this pay rise in no means gets in the way of other pay negotiations that we should be gearing up for!!
Happy for the other staff, if in fact they are happy with this!!
Would be interesting to see a comparison with the old formula!!!!

[bobrun]

Would be interesting to see a comparison with the old formula!!!!
It would have been no profit share at all.

[elgringo]

I, for some reason doubt that.

I would bet it would have been more. Maybe 2 or 3 weeks.

[jumpseat]

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[404 Titan]

tifters & elgringo

Unfortunately under the old scheme you would have been very disappointed. Under that scheme no profit share would have been paid because net profit had to exceed 7.5% of turnover before it would kick in. So if we take the audited results for 06-07 at face value it would have only achieved (4272 ÷ 60783) × 100 = 7.03%.

[cpdude]

Maybe so Titan but just watch the Execs collect 3 months!:mad:

[Numero Crunchero]

boy, talk about pessimists!
Under the previous profit share formula we would have got ZERO as the profit was less than 7.5% of turnover.
Under the profit share fomula that was in force from late 80s till late 90s we would have got ZERO as we had to have profit in excess of 10% of turnover.
Obviously the company is up to no good paying us profit share now...or am I being paranoid?

[Yeager]

hahahahaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.... ........................

hahah.


I think its funny... it takes care of my tax bill.. BUT it gives me NO motivativon, at all, to consider saving fuel going anywhere.. My promise to CX!! I will never ever give a F... about saving fuel going anywhere.. 2T here 2T there I dont care.. step climb 0, cost index XX.. I dont care... **** your self.... hahaha.. such an easy job.. not my money.. All the ******* googs are happy now.. lets see what happens to the guys who save money.. hope the ****.ng Mickey Mouse (yeah baby - Phillipe Chen) gets to suck cock on Kim Yong Phil and that.. Congrats to the guys who left already.. May you enjoy.. I will joyin you in 1.8M from now... hhahahahah... What a **** company Cathay really is - they just proved it - 4B profit. F.C. you staff... do you swallow... hahahhahahha - I dont.. Im goin hahahha Sh.t.. shi..

[Liam Gallagher]

Given that the shareholders have no obligation whatsoever to share profit with staff, I think the phrase some of you are searching for is "thank you"...

Ungrateful tw@ts

[backspace]

Liam,

I think the point is that the managers will receive significant amounts based on the amounts they could cut from the budget, things like our meals allowances etc, and on the performance of the staff at the coal face.

Perhaps the staff at the coal face deserve more!

[Liam Gallagher]

Backspace,
Management bonuses have nothing to do with the Profit Share announced yesterday. Management bonuses are performance related pay and form part of a Manager's renumeration package. If Yeager and co want a piece of that; buy a blue shirt, iron your pants, polish your shoes and get ready to kiss @rse.
As another poster said; you want profit share; put your money where your mouth is and call your broker.....
I stand by my comment... ungrateful tw@ts......

[BuzzBox]

What a bunch of spoilt bloody brats.

[backspace]

Liam,

I agree management bonuses aren't related to profit share. You and I can see that but ask someone on a service desk or a ground engineer or any other "at the coal face" and see what the concensus is.

The managers are payed what they get paid period. What people find hard to accept is the amount of bonuses that managers get paid. This is not a Cathay problem it is a global problem that all large companies are having trouble justifying to not only staff but shareholders and the general public.

[The Management]

Most of you are spoiled brats. It is our train set. The pilots are very lucky to be employed by The Cathay Pacific Group and be receiving any profit share.

We decided to give profit share and many are still ungrateful. Most that receive profit share don’t contribute to our profit but we are in the process of changing that formula (see last post on Profit Share). We are pushing this at Board Level.

Some of us believe profit share should be abolished. We pay the employees a salary to do their job. We intimidate them to go beyond their job. Why do we pay employees a profit share?

Profit share should be abolished and Bonuses given to Department Heads based on their performance. We in Flight Operations, Employee Services and Personal Departments are doing a wonderful job reducing Pay and Benefits and FOP for increasing intimidation.

Like last year we received close to 10 months in Bonuses and again we would like to thank the entire employee group for going above and beyond to make The Cathay Pacific Group very profitable this year. This year we will receive at least 10 months or slightly more.

If any are up on the 9th floor, please drop by the DFO’s office and he would gladly show you his pay receipt, but make sure it is after April. If requested we can post a copy to the AOA for members and display it in the crew room for non-members.

Thank you to all pilots that go out of their way to make The Cathay Pacific Group very profitable. We hope you enjoy your profit share this year.

Keep up the great work for this financial year. To Our Bonuses.

The Management

[404 Titan]

regretCX

If only you would just resign then maybe we would have seen 6.5 days.:ooh: :}

[sizematters]

wow, I can't believe regretcx didn't figure out that the "Little green button with the variable length string was to enable people to take their pet gerbil/or hamster out for walkies..........................

it certainly had no other use.........................

[Al E. Vator]

I concerns me to read my 'peers' talking like spoilt fools.

regretCX: What planet are you from? From your title to your child-like, dummy-spitting tantrums, don't you think you should do yourself a favour and LEAVE. If life is that bad - go away.

Yes CX management evidently leave a bit to be desired but you need to come down here, join a regional/Jetstar/Virgin Blue and see what crap that can be. Pilots here would be very happy to get profit share. I firmly believe in a fair day's work for fair day's pay and if I don't believe that's what I'm getting, I personally will take my skills elsewhere (which I may be about to do). Maybe I'll take the job you'll vacate at CX. Airlines are getting desparate for pilots these days.

Your rants are an embarrassment and I for one would like to say you and your ilk (who are noisy but thankfully in a minority) do nothing to improve the image of Professional aviators. Some of us have worked out rear-ends off with industrial unions and associations trying to achieve better T&C for our members but fools like you make it disillusioning.

Idea for you regretCX: Instead of being an anonymous loudmouth wasting cyberspace, how about putting all your testosterone into action, marching up to the top floor of your company, seeing the CEO and repeating the stuff you have sprayed on PPRUNE and get everybody better T&C and better profit share. That way you will do something constructive rather than just mouthing-off. When will you do that? Today?

I will revisit the site tomorrow and eagerly await the results of your endeavours. Have a nice day and enjoy spending your profit share.

[Feather Boa]

In addition to 25% of the CX bonus, we've also been given HKD2000 plus 10% of a months salary.


Cheers Kenny
Fx

[404 Titan]

regretCX

You seem to be under the misconception that your job is a right. No job is a right F/O Rrrrregret. It’s a privilege, even the one that you so despise here. You are obviously one of those people that think the world owes them a living? I’ve got news for you. It owes you nothing and the sooner you realise that the better because quite frankly you come across as a spoiled brat who doesn’t know how to deal with someone saying no to your constant whingeing.:ugh:

DirectAnywhere

I hear ya buddy. Thank god people like F/O regret are in the minority here.

[Yeager]

The hole in the Swiss cheese just got bigger - who ever would have thought that possible. Keep leaving the company guys - you a doing well. Maybe we will see a few more planes go into heavy maintainance soon due to lack of crew.. Gnsk gnsk gnsk gnsk..

Keep smiling :}
Y

[22N114E]

In a post on this topic which has been deleted, the regretful one may have unwittingly identified himself. He gave a clear indication of his resignation date! Very foolish.

[Al E. Vator]

regretCX...I'll ignore yet another of your childish comments about me 'festering underneath my rock' (?) and return to the point.

Dummies like me have spent much of our careers on Unions representing pilots, of which you may apparently be one. I grates to admit it but management often retort that some pilots are a pain in the a*se and you little fellow appear to be one.

Its not that I object to you having an opinion, albeit a expressed in a childish, foulmouthed petulant tirade. It's that I object to you and your ilk who whing and whine and complain to all and sundry including pathetic little anonymoyus outbursts but don't do anything.

Some of us get involved in Associations, some (very few) have even joined management and tried to fix things from within. So what for you? What will you do to improve the lot for the Professional Aviator?

As promised I checked-in to see if you would have the balls to go see your boss, CEO or whoever he is and complain about your profit share?

Did you?

Will you?

If you don't have the ability to be proactive and do something to change the lot for yourself and your colleagues then shut up.

[Penske]

Good post Mr. Vator.

Perhaps we are being to hard on the little fellah. (regretCX) I think we should take steps to try and understand why he such a bitter and twisted individual. What I suggest is that in order that all of us can fully grasp the realities of the dead-end life he leads, I suggest that Regret post a little summary of his ERAS reports here for our perusal.

At the very least it should be good for a laugh.

[Yeager]

N22XXXE, and if that someone identified him/her self - then what? Are you trying to imply that the hat police or any other CX police dudes are out for yet another hunt - whhoooooo.. watch out, watch out - management by fear is coming our way.. Just yet another prime example of how sick the system makes people. In aviation - that's excately what we dont want to see.
But what do CX know about that - its so perfect.. :ok:

Its all nothing but a laugh.. :D

Anyways happy laughing - and flying - just dont make mistakes.. :=
Y

[BlunderBus]

interestingly we used to get a couple of months when turnover was about 1/3 of what it is now..i guess with all the firings,cost cutting,productivity over the years it now cost 400% more to actually operate an airline....yeah i know...fuel bills.
still the only way to really get a tax-free boost is to pay yourself a huge increase in dividends...yes we have to 'look after the shareholders'....a'hem ..and who might they be??:ugh: :ugh:

[LapSap]

regretCX

As my kids would say, "You got issues ...". Loosen up.

[cpdude]

regretCX...shut-up and make the bunk!:}

[CruisingSpeed]

I can sympathise with regretCX because he seems way more honest and human than some of the sycophants around here that condemn him, hey, I can even see a little bit of myself in him. ;)
My advice: before things get from bad to worse plan an escape and act on it, you will be depressed for quite a while about what happened to your hopes and dreams. However, you already sense that you are not THE problem but part of A problem, you will only fully realise what you have regained when you settle in a proper new job.

Don’t look back and let those that give you nasty comments now continue a career on their knees. After all, they haven’t just cheated you out of a life, but themselves too.

Some of the responses here tell more about the place that Cathay really is than regretCX’s angry outbursts. Little or no social cohesion and when you walk around CX City you mostly encounter rather tense souls intent to portray the smiling and confident professional aviator, just to get through, somewhat artificial really... :hmm:

[cpdude]

How is Africa FCUX?:=

[cpdude]

You don't like Arctic Char? :8

[N1 Vibes]

Of course now that you've all been down to the Plaza to drown your sorrows on those beer stained picnic benches, thought the whinging masses would enjoy the following to get the moaning started again:

HAECO Profit Share - 8 weeks pay
HAESL Profit Share - 10 weeks pay

And while you are drinking your morning hangover java think about this:

Of the $15 you just paid for your mansized-skinny-mocca-chocca latte, only 1%, that's 15 cents if you haven't got a calculator with big buttons, will go to the farmer in Africa that actually spent a year of graft and sweat growing the beans. Suggest you spend part of your $6,000 and 6.4 days pay on Fairtrade coffee and get a life! :ugh:

[cpdude]

The payment of Profit Share is no longer triggered by a profit margin of 7.5% for the airline, which is just as well as the profit margin for the airline in ’06 was 7.1%. The new formula pays some Profit Share as long as the airline profit margin is positive. Following the new formula, the margin of 7.1% has been multiplied by 0.75 producing a figure of 5.3% which is applied to the total airline profit. In other words, 5.3% of the airline’s profit for 2006 is to be shared amongst its employees a total pot of HK$179m.

What we need in future years is a profit margin of 13.3% so that 10% of the airline’s profit gets shared out.

Am I correct in thinking that with this "new formula" if our profit was to double we would still only get 12-13 days?:ooh:

[N1 Vibes]

Time taken to maufacture your high-quality(?) Nike t-shirt in Indonesia = 6 minutes

Hourly wage of the factory worker who made it = US$0.29 per hr

Cost to manufacture = US$0.029

Price you paid in the Nike Shop = US$40

(Source UNITE - Union of Needletrades, Industrial and Textile Employees and Werner International)

But still 12-13 days bonus.........:yuk:

[backspace]

So N1 am I to assume that you only drink water and you are walking around naked!!!!:rolleyes:

[N1 Vibes]

Good idea, that would save on the cleaning bills.....

Or shop at Patagonia since they don't exploit their workers, and the shirts are cheaper/longer lasting yaddy, yaddy, yaddy. :oh:

[backspace]

Not sure I could walk down that path. I'd make too many people throw up!!!!

[sizematters]

so no doubt N1 pays his Indonesian Maid 30 times the required wage of 3200HK$$$ a month to asuage his burning desire to make all things fair and equal...........................ooops , but, sorry things are not fair and equal are they now ??? some people make huge salaries and some don't. the professional pilots at Cathay , along with the rest of the staff are, entitled to be rewarded for what they do, as is your Indonesian Needleworker albeit at 29Cents an hour ....................so good luck to them and I hope they introduce a profit share scheme but in the meantime......................

what has the fact that they are paid 29 Cents an hour got to do with anything ???

[Numero Crunchero]

cpdude,
to keep the maths simple, lets assume exactly $4billion profit this year. That equated to 7.1% someone reported and profit amount shared of $179m.
If we assume that turnover was the same, staff the same and that in fact the only change was that we magically removed $4billion worth of costs, then profit would have been $8billion. Profit margin would now be 14.2% (double 7.1%). 14.2% times 0.75 gives 10.65% of the profit to be shared, which equals $852million.

I am not sure how many staff we have but lets assume around 16,000. That means $96million was distributed equally(assuming everyone's salary was $12K or over) leaving $83million equalling 6.4 days.

So assuming the same system of $6K per employee, if profit was $8billion, our share would be $852million...take away $96million leaves $756million. Since $83million equals 6.4 days, $756m equals 58.3days.

So, if profit doubled on same turnover/staff, then profit share would be 58.3days and $6,000.

clear as mud?

[cpdude]

NC, thanks for that. I misinterpreted what NR said.:)

[FlexibleResponse]

If the profit margin doubled, then the profit share formula would be changed!

Sigh...

[Numero Crunchero]

Actually, this profit share has been locked in for a 3 year period so it will not change in that time regardless of profit figure.

Additionally, this formula pays more money for any profit margin, vs old formula, until you get to about 14% or so. Even then, the difference is not that great.

I know we all want to see the cloud in this profit share silver lining...well there aint any!

[Numero Crunchero]

Ok, boring f#$k that I am, I finally found 5minutes to sit down and work out the difference between new and old profit share.

Until profit is over 11.5% of turnover, new scheme is better. Old scheme(25% of profit in excess of 7.5% of turnover) is better until 22% of turnover. At 16.67% the difference is greatest at around 10% profit share...ie if we got 60days on new scheme we would have got 66days on old scheme.

So to summarise, new scheme is better up t0 11.5% and then again if profit is excess of 22%. Old scheme is better between 11.5% - 22%.

Out of interest, since 1994, profit margin has ranged from -2.1% to 14.5%. Only in 3 years, 1996 2000 2002 has profit margin exceeded 10%.

So whilst the current profit share seems parsimonious, it is in excess of what we could historically expect to receive from this employer!

[BusBusBus]

Well done with he calculation NC!

With regards to the possible huge manager bonus for the year, I think we need to take things into prospective. Management at CX has a lower based salary when compare to other airlines around the world. Most of our management makes the bulk of their salary on bonus which is based on performance of the company. When you think about it, the company (CX) can do the alternative, which is to follow the US and European carriers, and pay their exectives millions of US dollar a year salary (and possibly another huge bonus as well at year end, if their company turn a profit). That method will not be good for us pilots (or any other employee for that matter) neither, it will only further reduce our profit share as this will increase the cost for CX. I rackon, the current management salary scheme is fair for all parties concern. It might not seem fair that the management makes millions in bonus but if you look up their total salary package (look it up in the annual report), it is only comparable (sometimes even lower) than their counter parts in other airlines. If you are still not happy, go kiss some bottom and join the management, I am sure they will have a position for you somewhere.

Anyway, what's the plan for everyone on their 6.4days + HKD6000 salary? Pay for your new favoriate toy? Buy a diamond for your wife (right!)?

Bus

[Arcla]

bossbossboss...where you from bud? The 9th floor???:E

[BusyB]

3bus,

the truth will out when we see what bonus they get for a year in which staff did not get a profit share11:O

[Dan Winterland]

Q: What's the difference between your bonus and your pen1s?

A: Your wife will always blow your bonus! ;)

[N1 Vibes]

numero Crunchero,

since you asked, I don't have a maid, full or part time, I know where the cleaning gear is in my apartment thankyou.

I personally think that since a lot of the maids in HK are degree qualified they would be better off at home helping their own country to develop.

Oh, but the best job's at home are making t-shirts for Nike, because the Indonesian government welcomes US 'trade' with open arms, 'cos that makes George Bush happy and he'd defend them if ever they had a war eh? But the welcomed person is not Mr Phillip Knight, chairman of the board at Nike, he's never been to Indonesia!

For your overworked calculator:

29 cent's/hour for an Indonesian worker in Nike factory.

$2952.09/hour for President and CEO Mark Parker. (Assuming he's a union man working 40hr/week that's $5,904,170/year)

Nike turnover 2006 = $14,954,900,000

The Final Word - Minimum wage for a local maid in HKG as you so precisely stated is HK$3,200/month(US$407). Since they work 6 days a week from about 6am to 8pm, that's about $1.20/hr.

Next time you see a maid clean some gweilo's fetid jock's, or change the nappy of some pampered priss, be proud their 'lord and master' is paying him/her 4X more than Nike.

Well done! :ok:

[Numero Crunchero]

N1, not guilty of asking you questions but I do like your maths!

I know my maid is clever...she makes no mistakes doing my amendments! She has been debriefing me on the subtle and esoteric differences between PM and PNF. But she still can't explain to me why PF is not called PNM (pilot not monitoring).

In the meantime N1 I am sure there is a Greenies forum or something for you. I dont log onto PPRUNE to read about how unfortunate people are in this part of the world.

[BusBusBus]

Arcla, if I am from the 9th floor, I think this company will go bust. I am not a management type at all but I must sounds like one sometimes. ;)