Should power line awareness be part of the pilot training syllabus?

[Drumpump]

Should power line awareness be part of the training syllabus? We teach most of the emergencies but a pilot is most likely in a power line environment 90% of the time they fly. Power lines are the No.1 Killer of Helicopter pilot's in Australia.
Is there more focus on it in other parts of world.

[Sir HC]

Agreed. I suppose it will take a couple more accidents/fatalities before it draws attention from insurance companies and CASA, the only ones who could do anything about it. I personally think powerline awareness should replace downwind quickstops and touch down autos in the syllabus. Would like to think it would have a positive effect on premiums. Maybe not.

[HillerBee]

I personally teach a lot about it. I think a good instructor should incorporate it any way, whether in the syllabus or not.

[Flyting]

I drill it into my students through out their PPL training.
Teach them how to fly around and over, what happens when the engine goes over them, pictures of crashes that have taken out lines and what is left after, and stories of crashes and near misses.... that hopefully puts the fear of hitting them into their heads and they avoid them from then on.

[Up & Away]

I agree, I insist that student pilots, I fly with, call out "Wires" as they see them no matter what height. It is part of the course just as spotting another aircraft is etc

[Whirlygig]

I was taught power line awareness along with relative wind direction at all times and where's the nearest empty football field!

However, I think this should be in addition to downwind quickstops (not because they are necesssary but because they are fun) and touch down autos (because I do think that's important!).

Cheers

Whirls

[unstable load]

I am not a pilot but I would have thought it would certainly be highly recommended if not compulsory seeing as they are everywhere these days and helicopters are not getting fewer.

I have personally lost friends and colleagues to power lines.:(

[BGRing]

Yes, that and many

I think More to the point may be to include on the maps and have all of them with glow balls.

Besides that. how eles could you prevent.

I was told to look out for the power lines over waragamba after flying a Jetranger down the Cox River from the Blue mountains. This is while we were under 50ft from the (Then Higher) water level and some 20ft from the Cliff face. I said . "What! Those, Up there, 200ft or so? Yeah they realy worry me now." Then my instructor said. "see if you can get a little closer to the Wall."

Hmm I look back now and Wonder. That guy musta had a set.

Which is why they could be Acidently Neglected. Situational Awareness is hard to enstill. Surprise :eek:

[topendtorque]

I'd be very surprised if their were a check pilot of any sort that didn't allude strongly to the wire hazards when doing Low level training. The one that BGRing refers to must be a total goose.

I think sir HC needs a quick jab to the ribs on the way past. Touchdown autos and quick stops are essential parts of the various manipulative skills that ARE required. Especially if one were to suddenly avoid a wire with a quickstop that had not been taught:{ :{ :{

More pertinently though it's a matter of definition. Ab-initios go through a syllabus that teaches them how to manipulate an inherently unstable flying machine. the rules of the air teach them not to fly below 500'agl.

As I have before and will keep on saying, why not change the 500 foot rule to include;
"or never below the horizon line of two ridgelines without first checking for wires".

[Rushes]

More sets of glow balls would be a fabulous idea...... when they get round to it in the UK, can they start with a big set just East of the Dartford crossing!:ok:

[thecontroller]

i think theres lots of things that should be included in the UK PPL syallabus (wire strike prevention, flight in poor weather, gps usage, decision making/CRM, more cross country requirements, more 'real' confined areas etc) and lots of things that are a waste of time (constant attitude autos, downwind quickstops - all very fun and increases control ability but when has anyone apart from the military ever had to do one?)

[Two's in]

Military Pilots are taught all the skills needed to successfully negotiate wires from above or below due to the amount of time spent low level, and hence being very much in a wire environment (although teaching crossing under wires to PPL students might be a recipe for a disaster). it makes sense to teach the basics, when you consider that the first time an ab initio pilot is likely to encounter wires is when they are battling through low level clag trying to get home.

[matthew cobham]

i think that wire training should be compulsary, i have flown into wires and luckily survived, totalled my chopper, it wasnt until the safety auditer for the pipeline company that we worked for gave a lecture to my company, that i as a fairly new pilot realised just how out of my depth i was, simple training on working out where potential wires could be, looking at houses on the ground and instinctively thinking, ok now where is the power? they showed me how towers can disappear and wires in different sunlight, the lecture changed the way i think about low level flying for ever!! and it would easily be incorporated into a ppl syllabus in any country, i know that as a cfi i will now brief my students on the subject just as an extra when i train them.

not many pilots get a second chance like i have, so i have to make sure i have really learned from my experience and try to share it with others

blue skies

matt

[Lowlevldevl]

"or never below the horizon line of two ridgelines without first checking for wires".

That one rule, if drilled into the brain of every VFR pilot, fixed or rotary, would practically eliminate wire strike accidents.

[Bladestrike]

23 years ago, out for some line training with a company that had just hired me for my first job, ink on the licence was still wet....the Training Pilot (and Chief Pilot by the way) had me flying low level down a gentle valley along some train tracks, something I would be doing a great deal of in my new position. As we fly along, he was pointing out various things, and he says...

"Let's not stop now, but on the way back, if I asked if you could get into that spot, do you think you could?"

As I give the area a quick once over as we fly by, I feel the aircraft pitch up as he takes control and tells me I just died.

He was setting me up for the wires he was now clearing.

I NEVER forgot that lesson.

[Helinut]

Surely they are part of the syllabus at any decent flying school or with a competent instructor. That does NOT mean they become a separate air exercise, just that they are naturally included at all parts of the course where they are relevant. An instructor who does not major on wires for the confined area exrecise isn't doing his job properly. Similarly for cross country and mountain flying, if it is taught.

You need to distibguish between PPL and commercial, particularly where the commercial pilot has to operate in or near the wire level. In most countries the rules should limit the occasion when a PPL is operating in the vicinity of wires, if they follow the rules.

It also needs to be location relevant too.

[Lowlevldevl]

I have to disagree with you Helinut.

Specific training on wires with wires as the focus rather than the size of the landing area etc; must have more impact than just making them part of a checklist for some other exercise. Something about the brain only being able to process so much information at a time and giving impressionable young student pilots the impression that helicopter pilots take wire avoidance VERY seriously.

PPL's account for an inordinate percentage of wire strikes. The fact that they shouldn't be down in the wire environment as much as the pro's doesn't mean many of them won't go there. They need the same training.

It's not rocket science. Teaching a student the importance of wires shouldn't take much time at all. Just one vivid learning experience like the one mentioned above would most times be enough.

Location? Thats the thinking that most probably killed the military pilot and his sister on their way to her wedding in Aus. a few years ago. He was a Navy pilot. No wires at sea!
It's also probably responsible for the death of at last one experienced PNG pilot flying locust control here as well. Get away from the major towns and there are almost no wires in PNG!

For my money, (hypothetically speaking) if I had to choose between my kid learning about wires or navigation. I'd pick wires every time.

[Sir HC]

Thanks for the dig in the ribs TET. Silly comment on my behalf. Here are a few photos of a 50hrs old R44 in Victoria that hit wires just recently. Had apparently been flying the wires for a while before the accident occurred. Two broken ankles and a busted rib. Not everyone is that lucky though.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1336/924535408_6f5f858b17_m.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1439/924535418_536dc23f2a_m.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1057/924535438_a9ccb2a877_m.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1406/924535444_2eede69743_m.jpg
Cheers

[Two's in]

LowLD,

Thats the thinking that most probably killed the military pilot and his sister on their way to her wedding in Aus. a few years ago. He was a Navy pilot. No wires at sea!

Just to offer a correction (and not being pedantic) but he flew extensively in Germany and on Gulf War 1, all ultra Low-level, so he had experienced a wire rich environment. I think a better point is that despite his experience level and knowledge of the hazard, it still killed him in the most tragic of circumstances.

[topendtorque]

Thanks for that sir HC, yes that is one of the five prangs (in fact six, 4 R22's, two of which were attempting solo ops, the R44 here and the QLD rescue machine, being rescued by a chinoock) of late that I referred to over in the other thread.
I had been promised photos of it but still waiting, as you say a very lucky boy to survive. what a mess, bit hard to work out what is what.

a first hand account told me that the wires in that neck of the woods are very prolific and made of high tensile, three strands twisted, poles way apart.

would you say that balls hanging off them would be useful as in that paddock and many other areas nearby there are wires crisscrossing, so balls would only add to the confusion???
You know which way does those two balls indicate a wire is going??? damm not even connected.!!!!

[HelipadR22]

I found this collection of videos on YT about the risks of wire strikes so I thought I would share:

Part 1
YouTube - Surviving Wires Enviroment Part 1

Part 2
YouTube - Surviving Wires Enviroment Part 2

Part 3
YouTube - Surviving Wires Enviroment Part 3

An actual Wire Strike, very shocking I thought!
YouTube - "WHAT WIRE?" 2 CHOPPERS COLLIDE

Fly Safe.

[Bravo73]

An actual Wire Strike, very shocking I thought!
YouTube - "WHAT WIRE?" 2 CHOPPERS COLLIDE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDIwWPbCx7Y&feature=related)


Are you sure that that's a wirestrike? I was always under the impression that the blades touched from flying too close together. :confused:

[HelipadR22]

Just watched that clip more closely, I think you are right.

[rick1128]

Here in the USA it is taught and the examiners check on it during check rides. What I found interesting is that here, airplanes account for 70% of the wire strike accidents. And of that number only 26% were doing some sort of low level work.

I did the Wire course at HeliExpo a couple of years ago. I had done powerline patrol several years before and I learned a lot of new things. Part of the problem over here is that helicopter students for the most part are taught only to fly over the pole/tower. Not really what to look for. For the airplane people they really don't get any wire accident prevention training. So when they look for wires, they look for WIRES. And that is the last thing they should be looking for.

[SuperF]

Wires was taught where I learnt. And your ol man hitting wires, and living thankfully, when you are young opens your eyes to them.

Had to cross all sorts of wires last couple of days, One set about 150 times today! and even when I no I'm safe coming off the end of a run, still I'm saying to myself. Wires,wires,wires, and I get worried until I can see them beside me or under me...

Paranoid, probably, but helps me sleep at night.

[ShyTorque]

The "What wire" video was a tragic mid-air collision during the Kuwait Freedom parade. I was talking to one of the pilots only a few weeks before it occurred.

Other lessons can be drawn from it; e.g. a face to face formation brief is always required, especially where aircraft are from different units. Pilots involved in close formation flying must be properly trained and in current practice.

[nigelh]

I am working on a wire detection system that will detect any wire , no matter how small , no matter if "live" or not . Cannot say much at the moment but the ground based version works and i will be testing the air version in the coming weeks i hope . I hope this will be on the market asap as i think it could save many lives over the coming years .
If it is a sensible price do you think pilots and operators would buy it ??
( it couild also work as a TCAS on aircraft not fitted with Txponder )

[Non-PC Plod]

nigelh

If there were such a piece of kit, (and this is not just an April 1st thing), I think the problem would be the difficulty in setting the detection range/azimuth/relative height. You would either be getting nuisance alerts every couple of seconds from obstacles well below/off to the side/a long way away, or you would not be alerted about the wire only slightly below and in front but very small.
If you could resolve this problem, it would be a massive aid to everyone working in the low-level environment - but you would have to build confidence in it first.

Just noticed- you posted this yesterday, so hopefully I am not about to be ridiculed for "biting" at a wind-up!

[nigelh]

Not really joke material ( even for me !) so it is very real . I think we will be able to give it an arc to look through . It may well produce some alarms for obstacles you have already seen but that is the case with TCAS . I dont think you will be getting alarms if yo are flying say above 250-300 agl .
It will need to be utterly reliable or will be no use to anyone . I am hopeful and will show a demo as soon as it is working .

[matthew cobham]

i can honestly say that after surviving a crash due to flying into powerlines, that it should be compulsory training ! I was very lucky! it wasnt until after my accident, that my company sent me on training, which opened my eyes in a way you could not believe, in return I passed on that knowledge to my students, and trust me they listened once they knew I had first hand experience!!!