Airmalta abinitio sponsorship vacancies

[Gattaca]

http://www.airmalta.com/vacancies


Requirements are mentioned here
Vacancies are open to all EU member state candidates

GoodLuck!

[Oxeagle]

Gattaca,

That's all good and well, but I wouldn't have thought that the vast majority of Europeans have a GCSE in Maltese Language! I would have thought that this requirement effectively eliminates pretty much all non-Maltese citizens. :ugh:

Ox

[Gattaca]

Remember that English is also an official Language for the Maltese Islands so legally they can't ask for Maltese only!
Further more if one lives in another EU country such as Germany,Italy or France where there are no GCSE exams but rather Abitur,Matura and Bacc. they are direct equivalets of GCSE's.
All you have to do is ask your country's Education department for an equivalency Certificate!
If Airmalta don't accept this they are breaking EU regulation on mutual recognition one can lodge an official complaint with the EU commision per email and they will take action.

[babolat]

If you do not have a qualification equilivant to a GCE in Maltese then you do not qualify. They are after Maltese cadets rather than foreigners.

[starbuck123]

Hi Im new this forum to i apologise if i have done this wrong. Ive been looking for a sponsorship such as this and its so disapointing that its not all its cracked up to be. Do any other airlines do this?

[skylog]

Claycomm has hit the nail right on the head there ,
good post!!

[fabiensf]

Would anyone know if Air Malta are strict with the other candidate requirements? On the advert for the abinitio programme it says that candidates not meeting all their qualification criteria will not be considered. I'm refering to the A level requirements which state that 1 of the A levels must be maths, physics or computer studies. Unfortunately I'm 24 years old and have A levels in marketing and english...would anyone know if the company would consider my application?

[babolat]

You've got nothing to lose by applying. However the probability that they will consider you is slight. At least one science A-Level would have given you a better chance.

The information I have is that they require at least a Maths/Physics/Computer A-level, and that they are strict about it.

[LH2]

flyboy1818:

maltese is a hybrid language based upon Italian, English along with some French and Arabic influences

What is an "hybrid" language, if I may ask?

FWIW, Maltese is a semitic language, like Hebrew or Arabic. It is close to the variety of Arabic spoken in the coastal areas of Central Northern Africa (Libya, Tunisia).

Perhaps it would not be too far off the mark to ask for some sort of familiarity with the local culture after all (or in certain cases, a basic grasp of linguistics), be it in the form of language qualifications or something else. Just like everyone else does.

[babolat]

For all those foreigners hoping to join Air Malta as ab initio cadets:

Forget it. Air Malta will never ever select non-Maltese for ab initio programmes.

So please don't stay talking about the language and whatever. The O Level in Maltese is just a citizenship filter. F$^4 EU laws!!

[fabiensf]

I had heard that London stopped offering Maltese O level anyway.
I figured I would hand in my application anyway, ive got nothing to loose. I amwilling to fund my own training but it would be more feasible via air malta.

[the bald eagle]

Claycomm is spot on

With the current Air Malta management this lot are going down quicker than West Ham Utd!!!!....Now if those funny little people who wear orange were to set up a hub at MLA that would be intresting seeing as they operate Airbuses as well...you could well afford to buy your bond out with 1 months salary, food for thought for KM management?:ouch:

[skylog]

The latest recruits who already hold a FATPL were asked to pay LM 15000 back for the 320 type and be bonded for 10 years, when u consider that the avr. airline asks for LM 8000 back ,it shows that KM want to fill up their depleted coffers using applicants money.

[babolat]

The Maltese government and Air Malta management would have earned their well-deserved lesson, if KM goes bankrupt.

[the bald eagle]

CLAYCOM

You obviously work for KM keep us posted on events and i hope it all goes well for you guys.....Could possibly get a job driving metroliners out of the medavia garage for European 2000 airlines or if you really decide that you want to end it all,try asking Lino for a right seat job in his Lear:D I say right seat...NO ONE UPON NO ONE :eek: SITS LEFT SEAT WITH LINO;)

[skylog]

I would shiver to think that someone with so much beef with KM like claycomm would be sitting in one of its LHS or RHS.

Claycomm would you or shall i enlighten the eagle?


P.S.

updates on ppjn regarding new KM salaries

WARNING: Viewing May induce retching!!:\

[the bald eagle]

Hi Skylog & claycomm

Fill me in on the info!!!:confused: :confused: :confused:

pm if you like

[amc13]

Hey All,
Claycom is 100% spot on in what he says.
The pilots at KM are truly a great bunch of people. They all are very professional and skilled. However everything else in KM is rotten, starting from top brass managment :mad: all the way down to most of the clerks.
I feel for the pilots in KM as they have to deal on a daily basis with grossly incompetent guys that are running the show, including Flight Ops Managment that are merely there as puppets for the incompetent regime up at Head Office.
The airline is run in a very unproffesional manner in my opinion- HR is managment is a joke- the department is run by abunch with absolutely no peoples skill- it is hilarious once you are on the outside- however I can assure you that if you are employed with KM and have to deal with HR it no longer is hilarious- the tactics that are employed are to say the least questionable.
The way i see things the Chairman is just a figure as he does exactly what the minister responsible for KM dictates, nothing is ever done for the benefit of the company- things are only done for the benefit of political mileage.
Actually a very sad situation- had it not been for these idiots- the company would have been a great one- and i can assure you that there would be no call for applications as no one would have left. Yet the floodgates are open and it is not people going in but rather people scrambling out (and who blames them).
my advice to anyone thinking of joining would be- think very very hard about it. there is really only one reason to join and that is because of the great bunch of pilots in KM- however with them leaving there is really nothing left.
AMC13

[skycaptain]

Here's my 2 pence worth ..

I feel nothing but pity for the poor souls who have spent a fortune just to realize that they just got shafted up their **** when they see their first pay cheques arriving in their bank accounts. A basic salary for a S/O after tax and all that is just under Lm500/1,165 euros!!!!! Would you believe it? This is just insane not to say embarrassing .. and out of that amount you still have to deduct circa Lm100/232 euros for the A320 type and be bonded for 10 years! not to mention the fact that one will be paying more than twice the amount of the cost for that. A type costs typically Lm7,000 ... KM would like Lm15,000 back please .. as if they're making you a favour for rating you on an aircraft you'll be offerring your service on for monkey bananas!!! Who in his right mind will accept such a pathetic offer?

I cannot but fully concur with Claycomm, skylog & amc13.

A warning note for you guys and gals out there thinking of joining this sinking ship of a company driven by an incompetent and arrogant govt ... not all that glitters is gold! .. the only shiny thing going for them are the A319/320's. Apart from that, it's an open secret that KM is destined for oblivion. As Calycomm said .. it's only a matter of time .. a ticking clock!

BTW here are the figures straight out of ppjn...

Capt top
Capt base
FO top
FO base Lm9,973 13/Mar/07
SO top

SO base Junior FO Lm7,600 13/Mar/07
FE top
FE base
submit new information
Flight Pay / Per Diem last update
Capt
FO Basic Lm3.15 per duty hr 13/Mar/07
SO Basic Lm2.30 per duty hr

SC.

[Aviator74]

Hey guys,

most of what u say has an element of truth to it, i have not heard of any non-maltese getting abinitio training with KM! only Maltese. I do Know that in October they accepted 8 pilots with A320 Type ratings from GECAT, however they gave them 3 different dates to sign the contracts and kept postponing untill 2 weeks after the guys had moved to malta in November. they had also been told in the interview that thet would have to wait untill after the first 30 sectors to start getting paid which should only take 1 month, some even today havent completed 30 sectors, 4 months after starting and therefore still are not getting paid. ......... oh yeh these guys who all paid for their own training up to and including type ratings and paid for their own base training...................are STILL bonded till the end of their 2 year contracts for £5,000!!!!

1 of these guys has already paid the bond and gone, which must be the shortest length of employment with an airline in history.

to sum up, KM havent had to pay for any of these guys training and they treat them terribly...........imagine how badly they would treat you if they were footing the bill!

stick with it, its the best job there is. however if u have a choice i suggest u look else where. Aviator

[fabiensf]

claycomm, thanks for the insights into KM. just out of curiosity, where did you do your training?

[EGNP]

Aviator, your information seems very precise, can i ask how you came about it? just wondering if you know one of the british KM pilots? - PM me if you like.
EGNP

[the bald eagle]

Hi CLAYCOM

You don't mince your words do you!

How about getting a job with scare malta now through the election coming up door and then the ideal position for you would be CULTURE ATTACHE!....Boy KMs management will love you:}

enjoy your day :)

ps - Lino's still about?

[FrayCampbell608]

Looks liek a waste of time.

Maltese in-deed!! i do have a GCSE in Creole though...

[zickler]

Claycomm, most of what you have said is true. Still, from some of your fuming comments I'm starting to think that somewhere along the lines, there is a sense of "sour grapes" if you know what I mean.

Yes, the company isn't doing too well, but that's hardly breaking news. The management has never been very good either. The only difference is that before, KM did not have (or had very little) competition on most of it's routes, thus enabling it to make loads of money even though plagued with management, political and over-staffing problems. So basically, you're saying nothing new. It's just that times and the aviation industry in general has changed and KM has struggled to keep abreast. The introduction of low-cost carriers has obviously made matters worse.

Regarding your "nice" words about the chairman at KM ... well he is just a figure-head unfortunately and rest assured that he is not on the astronomical wages you have hinted at. Chairman and board member remunerations were down graded big time as well (and rightly so). Last chairman to be on such a healthy package was LG (I'm sure you know who I mean). Also do not forget that this same guy who you say cannot distinguish an aircraft from a toothpick, apart from being one of the country's top economists was at the helm of MIA (Malta International Airport) for many years with enviable results. I don't think he should know anything about pilot's licenses either. That's what the management at Flight Ops is there for anyway.

Yes, the main problem at KM is indeed over-staffing but do not forget that it was the opposition party that you say you support that when in government burdened KM with a lot of the unnecessary people it still has today. One cannot but remember the 8000 jobs in various government establishments, including Air Malta that the present opposition party loaded onto Maltese tax payers a few days before the 1987 general election; a burden still being paid for nowadays.

[skylog]

Zickler,
you may have some valid points ,but we are NOT here to discuss PETTY POLITICS:ugh: or how KM has been driven through the ground,
But to factually state how things are and will be in the future.


The point is KM is a ticking time bomb following into the footsteps of other parastatal dinosaurs like SeaMalta. Its T&C's are crap,wages even worse and its just being held afloat till the most opportune time.

P.S. you might want to read between the lines when claycomm says he supports the opposition.

Hint: he might be referring to the future opposition.

[zickler]

Claycomm my reason for thinking along those lines is that you seem to hate KM with a passion, as if they wronged you somehow. I know as much as you that the pay isn't the best around, and that unless something is done very soon, KM will hit the bottom. The multitude of problems are there for all to see. Unfortunately, when politics are involved, changes seem to take forever, if they ever happen at all. Most of what you have said is true but sadly it's old news that's been going on for ages.

Regarding my mentioning the political situation in the past etc, I just wanted to set the record straight. Skylog, I don't think it was me who started talking petty politics, mentioning ministers and figures, but I had to reply for fairness' sake.
And a final question to claycomm - would you accept a job at KM had you been offered one? Honest answer appreciated :)

[skycaptain]

... given the T&C's KM are offering at present I know what I would do .. no prizes for guessing! I have "heard" from extremly reliable sources that at the last call for interviews one of the applicants actually refused their offer! :=

Can't wait for Claycomm's reply though! :)
SC

[skycaptain]

"... considering that the real pay will start 10 months down the line ... "

claycomm do you call Lm7,600 gross p/a a REAL pay??? We're talking about AIRLINE PILOTS for Christ's sake! .. who are we kidding here? okay, okay one can argue that it's the "basic" ... but seriously guys .. how drastically can that figure be topped?

Money may not be the issue for some of us .. but I can guarantee it is for MOST .. everyone knows the figures for a JAR licence nowadays and fine I can live with funding for my own training ... but to accept to be bonded for 10 gruelling years - for what? - for paying more than double for my own type rating and being paid peanuts is pure out of this world INSANITY!

[SinBin]

I think I'll steer clear of this outfit!

[skylog]

Zickler,
by no means did i mean to say that you started talking petty politics,

i just didnt want this post to turn into a political tit for tat as is common on our little rock which would make Lou Bondi proud :{ . So no hard feelings.
Claycomm,Thank you for the compliment.

I must agree that the current wages & T&C's at KM are an embarrasment(especially since its my national airline) but one could easily be blinded for a second with the prospect of flying a 320,...........luckily i saw the light!!:}

[zickler]

What you lot are saying about KM is absolutely correct but do not forget that in Malta we're very limited when it comes to job opportunities for pilots. Unless you want to move abroad, everything boils down to 3 options.

You can get a job on the right seat of the Lear 45 with EuroJet. On paper a great job but everyone knows what your role as first officer would be at that company. Seeing that most people leave after barely a year proves my point and I don't need to go into any more details.

Then there is Medavia, an excellent company, good wages and conditions but at the end of the day, you're working in Libya, which is not exactly the nicest place on earth to be. A CASA 212 type rating won't get you very far if you eventually want to leave, although turbo-prop time is very valuable as well, but at the end of the day, you'd have to be type rated on another aircraft to get another job. Having flown there (Libya) before makes me want to steer as far away as possible from that country.

Which leaves you with KM. As previously said, conditions are awful but an A320 type rating opens many doors to eventual greener pastures once your contract is over and you decide to leave. The experience gained on-line is also invaluable since you're operating in European airspace to major airports, flying one of the youngest fleets around.

So basically we're not exactly spoilt for choice in Malta, unless you want to move abroad. A job with a foreign carrier isn't the easiest thing to get into anyway. Having a license and no prospective job makes you do what in different circumstances you would have thought twice about, and rightly so.

I hope you guys see my point. It's a case of trying to go for the lesser evil and minimizing your losses. The aviation industry is not what it used to be and in the last few years it has become increasingly difficult for pilots to get the right job at the right time.

[skylog]

Zickler the reason why i personally do not think that KM is the lesser evil is because ,

i. with its current wages i would not be able to make good for the money invested in my training

ii. sustain myself through that sole income.

iii. would be basically paying the company to work for it(a trend which is
increasing in this industry)

iv.Bonded for 10 years(a life time in this industry) against 100,000 euros.

v. Pay LM15000 for type rating.

vi.Be just a number while the fatcats line their pockets till the company goes bust.

I totally agree with you that beggars cannot be choosers ,but its no excuse to be blinded and go in head first jeopardising your mental health just for the sake of flying a A320.

[the bald eagle]

ZICKLER

What about Ray Micallef's out fit European 2000 Airlines..I understand he operates 2 Metroliners out of the medavia garage or is he no longer?

[Flying Aggie]

Sorry Mate, but I rather fly for Medavia than Air malta, since I am flying an airplane without owing LM 15,000 and make more than 2500euro's tax free. Yeah you start at casa, then with new prospects now Medavia has 3 Dash 8 and everyone is moving along. Oh by the way Medavia in not bankrupt either, at least the money is still rolling.

[skycaptain]

As Flying Aggie pointed out, he is not bonded for 10 yrs .. definately not more than 2 .. and if he likes what he's getting at the end of the day he can stay - realistically moving onto a Dash 8 - which rules out zickler's reasoning as to being stuck with a C212 type rating.

Secondly I think zickler is missing another important point here regarding "greener pastures". We all aspire to be made captains one day - right? If I had to join KM now at 29, my bond would see me finish at 39. I know for sure that those are gonna be a full 10 yrs of F/O time .. KM has way too much F/O's in there struggling up that ladder before me. So say you are lucky and a prospective foreign carrier will hire you as an F/O at 40 (very unlikely!) - guess what??? you're gonna find yourself fighting up that ladder again! :ugh: Hell .. I know ex-KM captains who have left KM for an F/O position and some of which occupied the highest positions too .. let alone us ..See where I'm getting zick?

So I tend to disagree heavily with you saying that KM is the "lesser evil" of all options available ... again that's only my opinion ... maybe you're still in your early 20's ....

SC

[skylog]

Its not just about being stuck with a CASA Type, since as mentioned one can always move on especially with a fast expanding company like Medavia,
after all i understand the CASA is one of the only planes that can do the job its intended to do in Libya,

After having a few hours on a T/P you will either stay within the company moving up the ladder, be lucky enough and have a Type paid for by another airline or failing that be bonded within reason.

What is being discussed here is the unreasonable wages and T&C's being offered by KM.


P.S. Libya is not as bad at it used to be & being above MSL its even better.

[zickler]

Guys ok, it's obvious that KM is not the best place to be, but remember that if it all goes pear-shaped and you want to leave after 5 years for example, you can do so against a payment of approx 15k. Ok it's no small sum, but as many of you said, you can make that money easily in a year at a good airline. It's not like you're chained there forever or for the whole 10 year period. My point is proven by the many pilots that have left many years before their bond expiry was due. Ok you have to pay, but with an Airbus type rating and a couple thousand hours on type, you're almost spoilt for choice if you eventually want to leave.

Anyway, it's obvious that we can never agree on certain matters. I agree with most of what you lot are saying, I mean no one can deny certain facts, but certain situations in life make people do what they would not have done or thought about twice in other circumstances.

[skylog]

Zickler as CC said you come up with some good arguments,

however there is no way with the current wages at KM that you will come up with an extra LM 15000 to pay of your type,certainly not if you have to pay KM a part of your salary every month,
pay off personal loans that you had to fund your previous training and finally the 100,000 Euros bond now allegedly in effect with KM.

One will end up as i stated earlier, paying to work for them.

Anyway i think there now is enough info for everyone regarding KM ,it all depends on each and everyones personal situation and thoughts on how to go about it.

Happy Landings!:ok:

[WindSheer]

I think your getting it wrong here guys re: the Maltese etc.
The basings will no doubt be for their sub-charter uk basings, for which British pilots already hold contracts. You would be flying identical routes to the other bucket and spade carriers, with the 'Maltese' thing not even coming into it. They even use British crew.

I work side by side with the KM engineer at BRS - top chap!! All the best!

[the bald eagle]

As per my previous post,is Ray Micallef's outfit European 2000 still going??

He was driving metroliners out of the Medavia garage..is he still operating?

[zickler]

Eagle, as far as I know, he was flying a flight or two per week to sicily with the metro's, but that outfit was never anything serious.

Guys correct me if I'm wrong but some of you keep saying that the KM bond (type rating excluded) is 100,000 euros when in fact it is more in the region of 45,000 euros over a period of 10 years obviously. Not that 45k is not a lot of money, far from it, but just want to get the facts right.

[skylog]

''I think your getting it wrong here guys re: the Maltese etc.
The basings will no doubt be for their sub-charter uk basings, for which British pilots already hold contracts. You would be flying identical routes to the other bucket and spade carriers, with the 'Maltese' thing not even coming into it. They even use British crew.
I work side by side with the KM engineer at BRS - top chap!! All the best!''

Wrong ! The Ab-intio call is for the maltese bases.

The british side of things havent got much of a good deal either as u can suss out from reading Aviator74's post.

[amc13]

Zickler,

I think you may be wrong re the bond amounts. I know for a fact that there are bonds to the tune of Lm 40, 50 and 60,000 the highest of which equates to Eur 139,000.

I know of a number of people who have left KM and had bonds to pay and have not done so. Whether or not they settled in court or not i do not know. It would be interesting to see what has happened- maybe someone could shed some light on this.

As all are saying- Km has great guys to work with- however knowing all the facts i would rather find another job than work for KM. The T/C's are attrocious and they only seem to be deteriorating.

What really baffles me is this. The industry is really short of pilots and every company is scrambling to employee as many pilots as possible, yet KM managment or rather Mis managment seem to be intent on scaring each and every pilot based in Malta away.

Time will tell but i would place my last dollar that KM will experience another mass exodus of highly qualified pilots within the next few months- similar to that which they had 2 years ago. And with my experience with KM- their reaction would be to make the bonds even tougher in hope that the few people they manage to trap will have no way out.

Forget about paying to work- what is worse is your moral once you get to see how things really work. My honest advice- stay away- not even if you are desperate.

Pity though as the place is nice and the pilot community is great.

AMC 13

[zickler]

Zickler,

I think you may be wrong re the bond amounts. I know for a fact that there are bonds to the tune of Lm 40, 50 and 60,000 the highest of which equates to Eur 139,000.

What I was talking about is the latest contract offered to CPL holders. The ones that have to pay for their training. Their bond is in the region of the sum I mentioned.

[amc13]

Apologies Zickler,

I must have misunderstood you initially.

AMC

[bus rider]

This whole thread started off as an ab initio thing, turned into a management bashing / pilot kissing thing, and back again to ab initio.....some guys are really hedging their bets, come the next round of CPL intake / next elections. The grapes may be sour or not, but why is everyone kissing KM pilots. are they saints or???

[A320familyman]

...Adding to busrider msg, i notice the change over from ab-initio discussion to cpl intakes discussion in this thread, with a strong tint of various particular experiences. Very surely we all share the same thing when in our flying offices-!The SKIES!. However when it comes to the way we think, we are all different persons, with different abilities, different dreams, and different opinions. I dont know any of these CPL/intake personal cases, about which alot is written in this thread, and which ofcourse all have their own merits. You have to be in it to know what it feels like, when its about just or injust. The one thing that sounds ironical to me, is that some fellows, who are all out against the Km situation (Who isnt after all??:P); are on the one hand saying that, themselves or people they know, would never want to be in such miserable position of paye and working conditions, but then on the other hand are also saying that, it has been an injustice, themselves or people they know have suffered by not being given the chance for a flyingjob with km. As prevously said i dont know any of the people writing here personally, but i thought to myself ''who will care about a job that they don't want anyway?'' I think that we all want the best, with ''the best'' being very interpretational.I personally think that the only best, when it comes to a flying job, and especially the first type rating, is to have open options from which you can choose the one you think its best for you; as i know for a fact, this has been the case with some young men in the past few months, even on this tiny island, with all the limitations and difficulties that seem to be overruling us. Wish all of you success and safe flying for the years to come!

[the bald eagle]

Claycom and co

I'm coming to Malta for my hols at the end of June & flying with KM my question is will KM be flying then :hmm: shall i try and get a refund now ?

Would really luv to me you guys...i might even be able to buy a beer unless the current gvm't ain't stuck more f*****g vat on it...claycom,skylog pm me if you fancy it

brgds
The Eagle:)

[zickler]

don't worry eagle, one thing's for sure ... beer is cheap in Malta :ok:

[the bald eagle]

NOT WITH 18% VAT IT AIN'T!!!!

PM me if you're up for it:)

[zickler]

Eagle you tight bastard :ugh:

Only kidding dude but the VAT doesn't affect it that much. You can get a decent pint for 50c (80p). Now if you call that expensive I don't know where you've been living for the last few years. You're the first brit I have heard complaining of booze prices in Malta, honest.

Anyway, don't want to go off topic ... keep on discussing KM :ok:

[zickler]

The previously bond period was 7 years not 10 - that was marginal and I for one would've probably taken it. but 10 years... never.
And the previous bond was in the region of Lm40,000 not Lm20,000 like it is now.

[skylog]

zickler i get the impression that you are trying so hard to find a good reason to join KM, ok so the current bond is LM 20000 still a heck load of money,however dont forget that cadets who already hold an F-ATPL are being asked to pay LM15000 (apart from the bond @ 10Yrs) for the type rating, when we all know that the average cost is usually within the region of LM 7500.

My contributions to this thread were made solely to inform others about the situation and to try to remove the rose tinted specs.

i have no wish to Join KM in its current situation and in hindsight am gratefull that i didnt join them in the last call.

I was lucky enough to be and peek inside KM's door and realise that i would be slitting my wrists by now(since i calculated that i would be paying KM to work for them) unless i found employment elsewhere.Very few are lucky enough to have experienced this.

This is not about sour grapes (i can only vouch for myself) since as i said i am happy where i am and am glad that i did not join up under these ridiculous conditions.Now one can either learn from others experiences & mistakes or ignore them.

P.S. Bald Eagle PM me when you will be over, im up for it.

[skycaptain]

I wonder from wer KM get the cheek to ask for a bond .. I mean!

You would think that paying twice as much for a T/R and and ten years "might be" enough! ... but another Lm20k (or whatever the amount is cos really dis rant is looking more like a Super 5 lottery draw now - I'm tempted to go for 7,10,15,20 & 40 come next Tuesday!) is just absurd!

There's something fishy behind it all .. something smelly! They know that with their present situation (a mess in case there was doubt) pilots will run for the door before they had even get the chance to get in ... the only way for KM to prevent that from happening is .... no prizes for guessing again!

What is this thing about 'sour grapes'? As if not joing KM was the end of the world or something catastrophic? .. I thank my stars every second for wer I find myself right now ... nuff said!

[zickler]

You are wrong sylog, I am not trying to find any excuses. I just state the things as they are. I never said KM is a good place to be. However, get your facts right before speaking out. It is not fair on the current intake of pilots but the reasoning behind KM asking for the bond is pretty obvious. Pilots get an A320 rating and **** off immediately after KM have paid for it. They don't look too nicely upon that (and who would!). That's the reason for the bond, as unfair as it is!

Keep this in mind, no one gives you anything for nothing. With all due respect to the Medavia guys, the company doesn't bond you for that long because it does the "type rating" itself on it's own aircraft, which basically costs it next to nothing. Obviously T&C's are waaaay better if you're up for life in Libya. Yes the KM bond is out of any proportion, but don't compare it to anything else local, because there is nothing to compare it to.

[Flying Aggie]

I'm with Z

What I think Airmalta should do get themself a guy who is like O'larry, and let him teach them how to get things right, even though I don't like his way of treating the pilots, but at least the bond is cheaper than KM and you pay for your own Type rating but still cost cheaper than KM, also by the end of the pilot training most of them still stay with him because they still get paid at the end of day with maximum 3 to 5 year bond. If I wanted to fly for the big boys, I would of taken the Ryan Air offer rather than Air Malta. But I love T/P planes.

Flying Aggie

[fabiensf]

actually I've heard that Libya is not a nice place to fly in, apparently pilots there don't stick to procedure and maintenance don't keep up standards...are they just rumours?

[skycaptain]

wot a load of bullocks some of you guys are coming up with!

First off fabiensf ... it's each and every pilots' responsibility to follow his/her company's SOP's .. irrespective of which part of the world he/she is flying in .. if u want me to give u an endless list of incidents wer the so called "big boys" at Ryanair have deliberately run their jets into, by all means tell me and I will ... maintenance is another issue totally dependant on the company .. if we're talking KM and Medavia here they're both fully fledged JAR approved, although I can tell you for a fact that wen JAR FCL issues come into place the (mis) management at KM dont know a f**k on wots going on ... fyi .. a couple of guys at the last intake with blessed KM trotted along for their T/R with expired IR's ... ILLEGAL!!!! but wtf .. that's KM for ya!

Zickler .. as far as KM goes ... wot r u gonna do if/wen they schedule you for flights in Libya? Cry like a baby and make a tantrum about it?? Grow up mate .. and face the REAL world! As repeated several times here Libya isn't the ****hole some of u guys are picturing it to be! and if it was ... sfw? R we paid to fly planes here or to decdide wer and wen and how to have it? and another thing .. do you think we don't know that no-one is not gonna give us anything for free ... thanks for enlightining me on that .. I nearly forgot that one! ... Our point is why the hell do u have to be bonded for 10 bloody years wen we pay for all our damn training .. twice as much for the type rating and a ridiculously hefty 10k or watever the sum cos I really cant give a freakin **** ... why? Please answer this question .. I'd really like you to tell me ... why!? honestly!

[fabiensf]

had also heard about the KM pilot landing on the taxiway in London, and that's why I asked about Libya's rep cos we hear several of these stories during ground school.

[zickler]

So let's start answering bit by bit.

Claycomm, yes I have been flying down there for a number of weeks in the summer of 2006 and 2005. And it wasn't flying for KM. Yes Libya ain't as bad as it used to be, but it still is a cultural shock when you get there. If you're flying most of the time, then you won't mind it as much, but when you're not the place was, is and will be a big **** hole. Multi-national companies want to go there because there is good money to be made. I'm just saying about actually living there. I've got nothing but respect for Medavia. It utterly deserves it's success. It's been through some pretty tough times (at one point during the US embargo when their planes were impounded in Tripoli, their mechanics in Malta were repairing construction equipment!!) and now it's enjoying it's hard earned successes.

Skycaptain, we'll talk about it again when you go there for a while. I never cried like a baby or made any tantrums when I had to go there mate. Work is work, and believe me, I have had worse jobs than flying planes in a **** hole country.

And again Clay, yes the 10 year bond with KM is indeed ridiculous, no doubt about that. I'm not arguing with anyone on that particular point. Regarding the Lm15,000 for the TR, again, yes it's expensive, but not as much as you guys are saying. The average price in Europe for an A320 type rating is approx 24000 Euros (Sabena, AeroMadrid etc) which is approx Lm10,000. On top of that, KM also puts in an MCC course of 20hrs on an A320 sim, which I would guess costs a few more grand.

In conclusion, the only MAJOR downside to the whole KM thing is the 10yrs/Lm20,000 bond. It is indeed insulting to bond pilots who have paid for all of their training in such a way. Then again, as I have said earlier, and as I know from experience, we're not exactly spoilt for choice in Malta. It's a fact of weighing all your options and going for what you think is best. In the end, it all boils down to a matter of opinion.

[the bald eagle]

Why don't all you Maltese lads get together..go down to the bank..borrow a few quid & set your own airline up...Bransom & co must have started somewhere...you could have Lino as your cheif pilot:rolleyes: :D :D :D :D :D

I'M still coming to MLA end of June if you're still up for a pint:ok: & speaking of beer..i'm finishing my shift at LGW now and off down the pub!

see ya

[fac_2]

had also heard about the KM pilot landing on the taxiway in London, and that's why I asked about Libya's rep cos we hear several of these stories during ground school.

fabiensf first of all grow up and get rid of your dummy ! Secondly it was a South African who was on contract with KM who did that mistake and whos been fired long time ago ! But remember that the aviation world is small and stories are heard all over the world !!

[fabiensf]

fac_2 if checking the legitimacy of things we are told during ground school lectures somehow makes me immature I thank you for showing me the light. Your comments have been very insightful! :ugh:

[fac_2]

fabiensf by any chance is the ground school owned by a self made cessna captain who always wished to be part of the the KM pilot community? In his dreams of course !:=

[the bald eagle]

The LGW incident appeared in Flight International issue 3-9th Nov 1993 if you can get a back issue

However the crew were not the 1st to do it as a BIA crew in i think an MD83 or possibly a BAC1-11 done it a couple of months before..It had something to do with the resurfing of one of the taxiways but the lighting used by the workmen looked very much like the runway lights.

I cut the article out of the magazine and if i ever work out our to scan the bloody thing to the computer i will email it to whoever! also the British AAIB did do an investigation and issued a report but i did'nt keep that one but it should'nt be that hard to obtain.

[scroggs]

As this thread has lost all relevance to Wannabes, and has become a general discussion thread about Air Malta and associated organisations and individuals, I am closing it. If you wish to start a new thread about Air Malta recruiting for low-houred wannabes (not direct-entry pilots, who should go to Terms and Endearments), please do so. If you wish to discvuss the airline, please go to the Airlines, Airports and Routes forum.

Scroggs