FC

I checked a few dates in one of the booking engines and it was the smaller CRJ although I saw somewhere else it might be a mix.

Going by some of the BACON loads during last winters ski season, perhaps
the CR7 will turn up at the weekend.

Pete

Now showing in booking engines as 777-24ER on Sunday 1/7/07 arr 1945
and Dep 2200.

Next is Tue 18.45/21.15 and Thursday 15.30/18.00

I checked a couple of dates in November and it still shows the 310
at the moment.

Eastern

What is the score on G-MAJZ and was anyone on board at the time of
the mishap?

Pete

I heard it was the ground crew being over zealous with the tug and put too much strain on the landing gear turning too tightly

We all can recall times when different departments were in the thick of trouble for one or another issue. However, the perception of HR negatively isn't quite so seasonal.

The whole idea of a satisfaction survey that will be listened to and acted upon by HR implies that HR listens or acts. They deal with our problems and issues with a cover-up-culture to ensure problems are buried.

Even within their own ranks, the sheer turnover of staff in HR is at best rather rapid.

Maybe satisfaction would be helped by a HR department that were above scrutiny run by an HR manager, passionate about developing people.

Wonder which black bin liner my carefully and honestly filled in document went to. Waste of time I fear, but I tried.

I heard it was the ground crew being over zealous with the tug and put too much strain on the landing gear turning too tightly


Actualy the Eastern was given push back from ATC. The push was then cancelled. Because they (as usual) had no headset comms the pilot braked and the tug continued push.
Don't know who will finaly be blamed......


The whole idea of a satisfaction survey that will be listened to and acted upon by HR implies that HR listens or acts. They deal with our problems and issues with a cover-up-culture to ensure problems are buried.

Even within their own ranks, the sheer turnover of staff in HR is at best rather rapid.


I am confident that BHX will find its grateful staff to be happy in most areas. Probably finding communication needs to be improved. :yuk:

Only kidding.....:*

You are on the right track Phil......Personnel is the one area of the airport that would benefit with outsourcing....They can't keep personnel managers..The reason for that won't leave to go somewhere else...(Nough' said)

For those interested. This evenings KLM burst a tyre on landing. The tyre stayed intact but had a nice hole in it..
The Pax were offloaded onto coaches in the Alpha loop. A/C towed to stands.
Nothing too dramatic....:8

Weren't some or all of of these parked up tech or hangared at some point today?

Air India Triple
Eastern J41
KLM Fokker
Whoosh ATR

I notice that the AI has a departure after midnight or at least this was shown earlier.

Add the usual flybe "spares" and it all looks rather busy with non-flying aircraft.

Pete

TUIFLY are persevering I see, but I wonder for how long? I used them again last week but found that the loads don't seem to have improved any. Roughly 50% from CGN on a Monday, and 35% from Brum on a Wednesday.

I see Manx2 are to start IOM-GLO from September which hopefully shouldn't affect the BHX route too much. I had heard that M2 had looked at Coventry before choosing GLO but obviously.

I presume Eastern gets good business on this route? Not sure how Flybe do with the once a day flight?

WNC

WNC

The loads on flybe were good but they jumped at the chance to downgrade it to a 145 after the BACON take-over.

I think the Dash operates at the weekend with decent loads at this time of year. I assume it will revert to the Dash as soon as they have enough
crews.

Avman

The Cologne has been poor most months, I think it averaged over 100
once but mainly 80's and 90's and I can't believe that is sufficient for
a 73G. Friday outbound and Sunday in is good apparently but hardly
enough for a 5 day operation I would have thought.

Pete

Last nights HLX was a 738, 100 odd I/B and mid 80's out, now being looked after by Swissport due to Aviation Supports current problems:ooh:

Whats going on with these guys??? Their a/c are being handled by other handling agents. I know they were providing a rubbish service but is that enough to lose all your airlines in 1 go..STRANGE!!!!

lost all there handling equipment as BA pulled all the stuff they were using to turn a/c around. Thus causing the airport to pay servisair to offload the skyeurope after it being onstand over 2 hours and suspending and revoking there operating license of aviation support. All airlines are currently negotiating with handling agents and the airport in the meantime is footing the bill and paying for the handling of the airlines, explaining the current spread of airlines. Each having a similar amount of rotations.:ugh:

I think though I was the first to question them and it seems the airport as usual have finally caught up. Oh well, it seems they are always slow to react on all issues.

Servisair are currently looking after Norwegian and Sky Europe. Not sure who's got Whoosh.



S78

Spot on Bazza. Aj was trying to get a 737 towbar right up to the last minute from somewhere on the night before he lost the ex-BA equipment to Aviance.
When I spoke to him on his last Yellow Cab he was confident it would be OK, but, the Airport just lost all patience. I don't think he will be allowed back whatever happens.

Well after 14 months the day has finally come................:)

A bit of a damp squid but a couple of surprises: -

Lost Toulouse another destination gone for BHX

Salzburg is not coming back

Berne starts in February and once a week

Chambery reduced to weekend only

Brest retained after two indifferent winters!

Some timing changes but most other frequencies are similar to now.

Just got to wait to see the aircraft types.

Pete

FlyWhoosh have announced a new 3 x weekly service to Newquay from Brum

SkyEurope + Norwegian now handled by Servisair
Whoosh now handled by Aviance
FlyGlobespan + TUIfly now handled by Swissport

As of today ASS are officially dead and buried!!!

Hearing rumours of major announcement tomorrow- Anybody with any info?

Any bets on Aer Lingus BHX base?

Or runway extension application?:confused:

Perhaps its a new shop opening in the departure lounge or an extra bus to Coventry every day - sorry to be cynical but rumoured big announcements IMHO rarely amount to much.......then again have heard a crewroom rumour (so it must be true!) that Baby are looking to further expand at BHX with new aircraft and routes :)

Nothing as exciting as a new shop and BHX management don't have anything to do with travel be it planes or buses, so its likely to be something like the contracted out cleaners have sub-contracted. But then if its a BIG annoucement it could be to fume about the management having been woken up from their hibernation?!? Or even to let us know that the next months figures are also down? Hmmm I wonder...............

Perhaps they are going to rename good old Elmdon as London Airport (North) or Manchester Airport (South) to attract more lo-co traffic!

It has been pointed out that there is no official press release about
the Council not buying the rest of the shares back but it has been
reported in other publications.

What a disappointment if this is the "big announcement", as I thought
it was pretty much a done deal anyway.

I have been trying to find the above mentioned article which apparently
appeared in the press yesterday but have failed :{

Pete

Birmingham councils’ nod to Canadian airport bid
07:55 | 09.07.07


A group of Birmingham councils has waived its right to block the sale of a 48.25% stake in Birmingham International airport to a Canadian pension fund, clearing the way for the completion of the £420m. Daily Telegraph

Advertisement

Earlier this year, Australian investment group Macquarie and Aer Rianta agreed to sell their stakes in Birmingham International for £420m to Ontario Teachers and Victorian Funds, following disagreements over strategy with the local authorities that own 49% of the shares.


The seven councils had the right to block the sale through pre-emption rights that lasted for 90 days from 17 May when the deal was announced. But in the last two weeks the councils have given the investment consortium exclusivity to buy.

AMM626

Cheers!

Is this the announcement or not, I would have thought the runway planning application would certainly be classed as big as would an EI base
but the sale of shares?

The anticipation!

Pete

Hi Pete,

This was announced a couple of days ago so I can't imagine it would be about the shares. I think i'd be right in saying it would the first major announcement by the new owners so let's hope they've got something nice and juicy for us....

They were still denying the Telegraph story in Diamond house today....That is par for the course is it not?
The official closure for good of 06/24 is to be anounced in the master plan in august apparently....That would require board approval at the July meeting...They will also need to decide on an MD to carry everything forward.

The Baby schedule from September has room for between 1 & 6 new routes if they wanted to fill the gaps and still have a spare throughout
the winter unless of course they intend to have two units on maintenance
like last year once the Durham base closed.

If it was 3-6 new routes that would be substantial.

It was rumoured that the runway application would not go in just before
the school holidays as it could be seen as trying to do it via the back door with many people on their hols during the consultation period.

Sounds the perfect time to put an application in ;)

Pete

Reported on a local forum that the 4th weekly 777 starts Sat 21/7/07.

As ever the website was playing up so I cannot confirm if loaded yet.

If true, this is a good increase over the 5 x A310's.

Pete

911,227 up 2.2%

Ian

Looks like the big story is EasyJet then !

Easyjet announces Birmingham routes (http://www.bhx.co.uk/page.aspx?type=bEyZftSD20U=&id=jAERoqnLlek=&article=En5HONp3%20To=)
Obviously not based aircraft but it is a move in the right direction. Think the routes will prove popular.

Cannot say I saw this one coming but may shake up exsisting locos at bhx who thought they had bhx all to themselves namely flybe and baby.
Recently these two are having numerous delays and pax are just having to grin and bear it as no other alternatives but if easy come in and make a go of bhx as a base etc. Will mean that fingers will need to be pulled out at baby and flybe.
Two routes to start of with for I am guessing winter only is a good start but the scope for future expansion is massive even if bhx is not a base. Numerous bases easy have are potentially great destinations that bhx has been crying out for. Come easy bring it on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:)


bazzab68

Easyjet have at last chosen BHX. They commence two new routes daily GVA and Sat/Sun service from GMB,both from December. Lets hope there are more to come!!
Daza

Is Geneva year round or ski season only

airhumberside

I have just listened to a local radio interview with an Easy spokesperson
and she was vague about the future (as you would expect) but the
radio presenter mentioned Geneva as all-year round. I assume that this
was just an assumption.

Pete

I believe it will be like easyJets ops out of Bournemouth. Although they are operated from easyJet Switzerland but you get the drift...

As Ian mentioned earlier pax were up 2.2% in June and believe me this was no mean feat, I certainly didn't expect anything above 1%.

Also not previously mentioned Ryanair have added a daily Dublin, well
Monday stays at three but four a day on Friday - Sun and three the
rest of the week.

Battle lines are being drawn all over the place at the moment.

The alleged claim of 9.7 million by 5/4/08 (by the airport) not
looking so daft as it first sounds. They obviously believe more is
on the way (unless they meant 9.7 by 31/12/08)

Pete

QUOTE: Earlier this year, Australian investment group Macquarie and Aer Rianta agreed to sell their stakes in Birmingham International for £420m to Ontario Teachers and Victorian Funds, following disagreements over strategy with the local authorities that own 49% of the shares.

Just what was the strategy disagreement ?

As of today the councils have still not made any announcements regarding the shareholders despite speculation in the press..
The strategy disagreement was about the expansion plans...Maquarie just bled the airport dry and was only interested in the dividends. The councils wanted the expansion. Dublin airports decided to sell at the same time to help fund the Dublin expansion.
Good riddance to them both....:p

Just been a newsflash on BBC news 24 saying that there is an ongoing police incident at BHX.

They said that they had no further information at present and that the airport itself was directing reporters to the police for info

Anyone know whats happening?

So - you thought the same as me - to get on to the people that really know! DOES anyone know what is going on?

Scare was just that. Something on the rail link....Turned out to be precautionary. Better be safe than sorry..:ok:

So Aer Lingus has opted for Belfast over Birmingham...Must be something we are all missing. I know its North and Southern Ireland but its still Ireland. I would have thought a Mainland base would have served them better...

Definately the right thing to check it out, best to be safe than sorry. Would question if it was necessary to put out an all ports on national tv about it though. Then again it was the BBC, they aren't having the best of weeks.

Has the EI base been announced as Belfast? I cant find info about it anywhere

call100

Where is the info coming from, nothing on their website.

Pete

So Aer Lingus has opted for Belfast over Birmingham...Must be something we are all missing. I know its North and Southern Ireland but its still Ireland. I would have thought a Mainland base would have served them better..
Nothings being announced. As far as I know they still haven't made the final decision on where the new base will be

Wait and See........;)

I though I would post a few relating to new routes and a few others: -

Marseille 3031 pax at an average of 89 with a load factor of 65-68%
Galway 891 pax at an average of 34 with a load factor of 44%
Waterford 1534 pax at an average of 31 with a load factor of 46%
Rome 5878 pax at an average of 98 with a load factor of 66%
Lisbon 4399 pax at an average of 100 with a load factor of 67%
Barcelona 7077 pax at an average of 118 with a load factor of 79%
Ibiza 5605 pax at an average of 165 with a load factor of 77%
Dubrovnik 1783 pax at an average of 74 with a load factor of 63%
Warsaw 3685 pax at an average of 108 with a load factor of 73%
Dundee 1043 pax at an average of 11 with a load factor of 27%

Dubai up 7000 averaging 222 or 70% load factor - June is it's bad month
Krakow averaged 107 or 72% load factor and could be ending!!!!
Nice 7092 average 118 or 79%
Prague average 106 or 81% (mainly a 735 now)

The BABY/ZB sun routes averaged between 75 and 90%

The dunces hat goes to Cologne 3162 pax at 75 per flight if all 42 ran

Swiss Zurich showed a big increase and Newark frustrating as ever averaged 161 or 92%.

Overall a good month with those load factors rising, I did not really check the booking engines for yields but Warsaw & Ibiza were cheap at times.

Pete

Krakow seems to end at the end of October, from both MAN and BHX, unless it's simply the case that NE haven't loaded the schedules yet. Not bad loads from either, so it'd be a shame.

There's Coventry and Liverpool to Katowice, and East Mids and Liverpool to Krakow which might explain why.

From the BHX website:

The Airport is satisfied with the way the recent changes to traffic flows at the airport have been managed and it is pleased to report that there have been no major flight delays or traffic congestion problems following the recent changes to the UK threat level.


Had the misfortune to do a drop off this afternoon (Sunday 15 July) and the traffic was awful. Took almost 30 minutes from leaving the A45 until I gave up on any plans to park and just dropped my passenger off at the Hermes Road roundabout. My daughter did a pickup there on Friday and the traffic problems queues were similar.

Do the airport management not look out of the window?

I often do a Cork run from BHX, and will be looking for an alternative if this persists - even LHR looks attractive!

Regards

Hasn't the traffic always been bad on a Sunday which is normally due to the number of flights from Asian destinations?

OP, on several Fridays recently, the Cologne flight has been upgraded due to a B737-800, either Fridays are good loads or they have scheduled maintenance on the B737-700 on Fridays/weekends. However, if it is down to good loads, the other flights during the week must have very poor loads going by those figures.

Fried Chicken

FC

Yes the HLX was a 738 again, well was going to say last night but I think
it ended up in the early hours!

I have heard Friday and Sunday is good and there must be a lot of room the other days it operates.

As for the approach road, Sunday evening is the one time I have noticed some chaos when I have been driving along the A45. However this is not too surprising considering there is a TOM 762, EK 332 and PK 772 plus the usual rakes of ZB & WW at the same time.

Pete

As a fairly regular user of the HLX, I've never personally seen it more than just over half full. Lots of space yes - but concern that they may give it up. I really wonder if it wouldn't be worth a try at making it twice daily (Mon to Fri)and thus more attractive to the business community.

As for the traffic on approach to the airport. Sunday evening has been notoriously pretty bad for several years. Of course, with the present situation it will stretch even further back. One significant contributing factor is the high proportion of Asian families/friends who traditionally come en mass to say their farewells to pax at the airport. It's their strong family culture and I respect it, but it doesn't half increase the congestion.

The following article is from the Birmingham post:

BIRMINGHAM International Airport will get its long-awaited runway
extension by 2012, it was confirmed today.

The two companies bidding to buy a 48.25 per cent shareholding in BIA
are prepared to enter into a formal agreement to build the 400-metre
extension across the A45 which will cost £120 million and open up
direct flights to China and the west coast of America.

The seven West Midlands district councils have agreed in principle to
allow the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan and Victoria Funds Management
from Australia to acquire the shares, but the two partners will have
to agree a comprehensive BIA development plan setting out a timetable
for new investment.

Birmingham City Council cabinet has backed the share sale, which
members said would safeguard the future of the airport and deliver a
huge boost to the region.

It will put BIA on an equal footing with Manchester and the London
airports, where the length of runways make it possible for long haul
flights to reach their final destination without stopping to refuel.

The benefit to the West Midlands economy is likely to be £1Êbillion
and 16,000 new jobs by 2030, according to figures produced by the
council.

Paul Tilsley, deputy council leader, said: "This is a great outcome
for Birmingham and the region. We have played a significant role in
ensuring the airport continues to be developed."

The runway extension and an international pier will be built at no
additional cost to council tax payers, he promised. Coun Tilsley
added: "We should not forget where the airport was 20 years ago. We
were still virtually flying out of the original hub. Great strides
have been made since then.

The new private sector partners will pay £420 million to buy the BIA
shareholding from Aer Rianta and Macquarie Airports, which announced
it wanted to dispose of its interest earlier in the year.

The seven West Midlands councils will continue to hold a 49 per cent
stake, with the remaining 2.75 per cent remaining with an employee
share scheme.

The agreement represents success for the seven West Midlands
councils. A planning application will be lodged with Solihull Council.
Daza

Posted on another forum

"Uzbekistan Airways Cancels All Birmingham " etc etc etc

Obviously not just the "off season" recess.

Aerosvit, Mahan & now Uzbek just leaving Turkmen & the glorified AI
refueling stop.

Could do with JET or some Air India terminating flights, still plenty of
evidence of people flying LHR-DEL and then going by road to ATQ.

Pete

http://www.businessworld.ie/livenews.htm?a=1781766

Everything comes to he who waits......Doubters!!!!:p

Shame Brum lost out again. Maybe when we get that runway extension we can finally get some long haul hubbing....

Also reported in the Irish Examiner and: -

http://www.uk-airport-news.info/belfast-airport-news-230707.htm

More importantly not a word on the EI website yet, poor show letting
a decision like this out into the public domain via leaks but I suppose
these things happen.

If the quote from the DUP politician is correct and the NI Executive
will help fund some of the routes then I would imagine that BHX would
have found it difficult to match such an offer.

It is an interesting decision as BFS have Easyjet and what was one
of their last moves at Belfast, to chop the Rome at the end of summer.
A core route, which they can't make pay all-year-round, I wonder if EI
will pick this one up.




Pete

Quote from the East Mids thread

"Baby are going to start BHX-MAD"

Anyone else heard this one, rumours were that Madrid was one of
three slots Easy applied for but only took up Geneva.

When is this going to be announced and will there be anymore
routes as well. No rumours locally as such although Madrid &
Berlin have been mentioned.

In the winter schedule there is a gap for one of the six based
aircraft (plus the EDI one operating through) for another route
to be added but a bit tight for a Madrid but maybe possible.

Pete

Would Berlin go down well with LH? Who still own part of the larger BMI group.

I always thought this was the main reason for the lack of German destinations on the BMIbaby map. Didn't they MUC from one of the bases a few years ago and it was stopped because LH got the hump?

Not heard anything about MAD but it would be a good fit for them dependant upon timings, it could also be a warning shot at Easy as MAD would appear to have been the logical next step for them?

chrism20

I believe that there is an agreement that Baby steer clear of both
Germany and Scandinavia. However there have been postings that this agreement ends this winter, whether this is true I do not know.

It would be a bit rich of Lufthansa to oppose Berlin as far as I know they have never signalled any intent of operating the
route but of course any current pax are probably routed via their Dusseldorf service at present.

Munich is one route that could take competition but I would
fully understand LH objecting to Baby operating that one.

Scandinavia is another weak area at BHX, with no Stockholm
or Oslo, which won't be the case soon for an airport just up
the M42!

Pete

Press release just issued today on the bhx website which will be of
interest for any regular users of the airport.

Basically a new drop-off point one minute from the terminal costing £1
for 20 minutes and £3 for every subsequent 15 minutes.

A free 30 minute drop-off/pick-up will be allowed in the long-stay car parks. Then of course you get the free bus to the terminal.

All changes tomorrow 2/8/07.

It sounds fairly reasonable, I know £1 for 20 minutes is a bit cheeky but
considering all the recent events this seems to be fine.

Pete

Why not free for 5 minutes - it only takes a couple of mins to get in and out of the car !

I was there on Sunday afternoon and it was working fine for free !

Its still opportunism - ie making more money out of security issues

'Dog

New route to Bratislava with Sky Europe starts end October.

Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday
BTS - BHX 1200 - 1330
BHX - BTS 1400 - 1720

I have an alternative method to reach the Terminal Bldgs without the hastle of waiting for buses (which are nearly always full at 7 am anyway) at some distant car park, in all weathers.
Just ask your driver to drop you off at the adjacent International Rail Station (drop-off point is undercover), catch the free, frequent Air-Rail link (every 2 minutes) and this will take you, in just 60 seconds, right into the heart of Terminal 1. If you have checked in on-line the link also takes you to within 20 mtrs. of the Departure lounge.
NCP can ***** their inflated charges under the disguise of security.

I expect this replaces the existing one then, no gain there.

Centre cities

And so close to EMA where Ryanair flys to Bratislava, the loads have been good at ema so far.

lee

Good news about Bratislava, I think there is enough demand for flights from both BHX and NEMA, especially sine BACON dropped nearby VIE from BHX. And at last a little route expansion (even if only 'replacing' Air Slovakia). Web pages of other regional airports full of new and exciting routes, all BHX has to talk about is revised drop off arrangements. I know I have siad this before but BHX is being continually and seriously left behind by others - there will be more flights to Scandinavia from EMA and Poland from BRS this winter than the pitiful offerings from BHX (which once boasted OSL, ARN and HEL as destinations and now Krakow is going). Good for them but what are the route development team doing at BHX? It would appear BHX has lost EI to BFS and I see nothing coming from Baby or Flybe at the mo. It's a serious situation, the European route network from BHX which supposedly serves the UKs second city is stagnant with virtually no services to countries in the expanded EU, despite large immigrant populations in the West Mids and a greater demand from UK citizens for city breaks away from Prague, Amsterdam etc. BHX lacks even mainstream city destinations (MAD, VCE, BUD for example). And to further rub salt in the wound the latest online BHX timetable has no reference to either Uzbek or Turkmenistan leaving just AI (effectively a glorified fuel stop) and PK to serve the Asian market (oh yes, not forgetting EK). I know that routes and destinations aren't everything but come on! Lets hope the arrival of Easy will see a renaissance in BHX's fortunes (although at the mo am sceptical this will extend beyond a winter only venture).

Actually I know you will get BHX-MAD with Baby hehe, I heard Ryanair wants to increase the number of flights to Bratislava from EMA when we have the a/c. As im sure you know EMA is one of the best preforming bases for Ryanair.

Just a note, can people please call it EMA again,,,, NEMA made alot of people very bitter since the airport is actually in Leicestershire with a Derbyshire postcode. I often have to tell boarding staff at airports to call it East Midlands again lol.

No new routes from ZB?

Lee

Not great I know but you forgot the re-introduced routes of Shannon with FR and Lyon with AF for the winter.

I would be suprised if Turkmen ceased operations as they seem to do OK.


Centre cities

I am amazed to read how harsh you are on the development team at BHX.

I work in network planning at an airline and rate your team highly.

They are pro-active and deliver on what they say.

9 times out of 10, it is not in their control whether we airlines decide to increase routes, capacity or even come to your airports.
The development teams of airports can put presentations to us and commercial offers which are always attractive. But what you must remember is the airlines need to make money. No new route now days is the guaranteed banker. Hence our slow and precise research we undertake prior to taking action. This can sometimes take up to 2 years.

BHX has seen good growth this year out of WW and ZB alone. This while BA/BE consolidation is taking place and then look at how well likes of CO and EK are doing. NOT all airports can boast about filling EK 773's with ease.

We think your development chaps at BHX are a well respected team and know how to get carriers attention.

Didn't realise til dropping somebody off this morning into BHX that they had introduced this £1 charge, fecking disgrace, profiteering off the back of security scares.

I was dropped off Wednesday and picked up yesterday - use the railway
station and then the mono-rail thingy. No charge, no queue's and no
hassel (unless there is a gig on at the NEC).

Also 30 minutes free in the long-term is generous in my book.

Pete

They are making the best of a bad job with the parking...The decision to shut the terminal roads is completely out of their hands. They have no say in the matter what-so-ever. It's a fine balancing act trying to keep the entrances clear, especially when the PK is in.
As said, for drop offs the station is the intelligent way to go, and I would imagine all those who use the airport on a regular basis will do that and save themselves time.

Apart from the weekends when nothing seems to run apart from a replacement bus if you are lucky

Centre cities

Can anybody confirm that Uzbek have left BHX for good? I know they haven't operated any flights into Brum for a few weeks now. If they have gone, who's next? Air Slovakia possibly?

Also, have City Airline & Sunair ceased flights just for the school holidays? It's strange Manchester can retain flights by these airlines through holiday periods but BHX can't.

Fried Chicken

FC

I believe that someone somewhere posted a link which indicated Uzbek
have gone and I think their website makes no reference to BHX as a
destination.

Some blame the Air India direct flights but if you at look at the CAA
stats they are not carrying much over a 100 per flight and it is more
like 80-90.

Billund always retires for the summer but I am not sure about City. I have
not heard about either ending permanently.

Also KL have one flight less per day and Brussels Airlines two less per
day but all normal for August.

No comment on the EI decision on this thread, all a bit inevitable I
suppose even considering the 12 a day slot applications made.

Pete

On 11 June saw the City flight unload and load for Gothenburg. 23 in 27 out. Very good loads. According to BHX timetable due to restart later in the month.

My flight to BCN with Baby was full. I see a need for a second flight a day to BCN as there is sufficient demand. Perhaps ClickAiir or Vueling. I know someone who works for Vueling and the recommendation has been made to the company. Time will tell!!

Paul

Hi Paul

City loads have been increasing albeit at a slow rate so hopefully it is
safe for now.

BCN would have been good for EI as the route could take competition
in summer. Slots are a big problem which I am sure you only know too
well travelling the BCN route with Baby.

Vueling have just posted some bad financials and I would imagine that they will be very careful with their expansion plans. Again they are big
in Madrid and that route is still open for someone.

As for baby they are having a great time and have done so since April,
just a pity they have not got the financial clout behind them to go big-
time as I am sure that there opportunities not just at BHX but Manchester
and Cardiff as well.

Pete

A whopping 0.8% to 963564!

However not too many of the UK's top 10 airports (for pax) can claim to still be nearly 30000 short of their 2003 figure :confused:

2006 955912
2005 1023223
2004 949454
2003 992813

The failure to attract Aer Lingus will have the bean-counters re-calculating their 2007 and 2008 estimates no doubt unless of
course the airport suddenly turns a greater shade of orange.

Pete

Fairly quiet news wise but the airport have issued the press release re the
Ryanair increases on the Dublin this winter although they have been bookable for at least a couple of weeks.

Another small increase is the Lufthansa Dusseldorf for a short period
(15/10-26/10) on the second rotation of the day now mirroring the
first rotation for the same dates - now showing as a CR7.

The third and forth rotations are still the smaller CRJ.

Pete

Yes things really quiet at the mo.........for winter 08 there are re-introduced flights to Lyon, Shannon and Bratislava - but on the down side there is the loss of Krakow (ideal for Baby??). Any further rumours on Madrid, Berlin? Any rumours for next summer?? Will BHX ever see more flights to Poland, Scandinavia, Italy?? And what about Easy - just for the winter or here to stay???? (especially now EI are not coming). Oh yes and Globespan?? Will we ever see double figure monthly pax growth again or will BHX slip unceremoniously behind GLA and even EDI next year?? Sorry, lots of pointless questions, I really must get back to work............;)

GayFriendly

I believe that GSM like Lingus were just slot applications and nothing has been heard since. I think going head to head with WW & ZB after the
summer they have had is the last thing they need (and BHX as well).

Baby Madrid has been rumoured on the East Mids thread and that is about it. Berlin was another slot application for winter that has not been taken up I believe (Easy).

Nothing re Italy or Scandinavia other than the rumours that marketing have targeted these (which is stating the obvious).

Krakow is amazing, to lose a service with an 80% load factor but as the
Krakow base is supposed to be closing there is little SkyEurope could do.
Even if they were not making money on 80% load factors then somebody
else such as Baby/Easy might be able to.

I was slightly disappointed that Easy did not go for a 3 a week Krakow along with Madrid.

Maybe with what has been posted on the East Midlands thread could bring these closer if BHX does get a base in 2008.

Pete

Again some interesting ones.

Stat of the month has already been posted on the Belfast thread but
is worth mentioning again: -

BHX-BHD 17506 down from 24925 - same number of weekday rotations.

This is amazing and must have taken some doing, yes departure one and departure six from BHX were reduced from the Q400 to a 145 and they often had more than 49 pax but this is truly a remarkable achievement :confused:

Baby Belfast was up from 15421 to 18255.

Baby had a good month with only GLA & EDI moderate.

Rome 7092 -114 pax 77%
Lisbon 4349 - 128 pax 86%
Barcelona 792 - 127 pax 85%
Marseille 3922 - 109 pax 73%

SkyEurope Krakow 2353 - 131 pax 88% - somebody please take this route
Norwegian Warsaw 4512 - 125 pax 84%
EK Dubai 34523 - 268 pax 79% up from 27700
Dundee 1723 - 18 pax
Zurich 12509 - 70 pax or 76% up from 10638 pax

The dunces hat...............you guessed it Cologne 3391 77 pax 52%

Air India averaged only 70 and was not always full of transits
BE Galway averaged 40 and Arran Waterford 37 (57%) but early days.

Pete

Anyone heard about Mon bhx to boston on an A300? sounds a little bizaar,i know but not unthinkable.:sad:

Maybe the odd one off charter but a scheduled service with no hubs at either end?

AA have tried MAN - BOS with a semblence of a hub at BOS and haven't pulled it off so I can't see MON trying it.

Being totally disgusted at the airport once again taking financial advantage of their captive customers (the, 1 pound pick-up/drop off charge), I want to write an e-mail to the Airport Manager. Unfortunately, I notice that their website offers no option to e-mail the airport management nor do they have a "comments" e-mail option. I wonder why :hmm:

Avman

Go to the website and hit the contact us button at the bottom in very
small font. Then scroll down and hit the feedback form.

However you probably won't get any feedback as I never have but worth
a try otherwise it is pen and paper I'm afraid.

However there is 30 minutes free in the long stay or even better, drop off & pick up at the railway station. Pax can just get the people mover or if that is not working the replacement bus.

The railway station has a drop off point or 20 mins free parking.

Not tried the 30 minutes free long stay so can't comment, railway station is much better.

Pete

Thanks OltonPete. Why I didn't see this I don't know. It's large enough! I'll put it down to travel fatigue!

Possibly some good news on the way: -

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2007/20070817/main5.htm

The BHX bit is at the bottom.

After a poor "low season" the transits have now recovered with well
over 200 some days. You would think that eventually with the 77L
now in the fleet that it might go direct eventually but the rumours are that this is still quite a while away (possibly due yields?).

Pete

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2299148.cms

This is supposed to relate to direct services rather than code-share.

The problem for BHX is will they have enough aircraft to do this and I
believe it is from Spring 2008 at the earliest and will the Air India increase
(if it happens) put them off.

Chennai-Brussels-Newark from 5/11/07 is another route just announced.

The above article also mentions the Air India increase.

Pete

Wonder if AI will route via BHX to San Francisco and Vancouver as wel? Both cities like Toronoto and Brum have very large Sikh communities who drive the demand to the Punjab, kind of like the idea of BHX being a european AI hub!

Cheers for the info Pete..

I would imagine serious payload issues to the West Coast but maybe
someone can crunch the numbers for the 777 off 8000ft.

Could come-back in 2012 ;)

Pete

AI have only just started receiving its 77L's so will most likely utilise them on direct routes India-states and not 'waste' them on a proven route that a 772 is is more than capable of, (except for vt-air that is). Dont hold your breath waiting to see one!

It appears the BA colourscheme has now gone completely from BHX.

I've just tried to book Brum - Billund (on the BA site) for a date in September & for each date I tried, it's routed me via DUS or CDG rather than with Sunair. So I phoned BA who said the service is no more! Another carrier bites the dust at BHX!

The service should have recommenced at the end of August after the holiday period & it still shows on the Sun Air site but presumably will be removed at some point.

A potential route for Birmingham European (or similar) if & when they commence services as didn't Newair operate the route with F27's before Sunair?

Fried Chicken

Not too much of a surprise with loads most months between 9 & 12.

Anyone taking on Billund must be mad but look at Cologne, carriers come
and go with awful loads but they still try.

A few months ago I would said Cologne was the next to go before Billund but there again who expected Krakow to be lost although that one was down to the carrier (closing their Krakow base) and less so BHX.

Pete

Re AI

Could they not just miss the BHX leg out altogether and route direct and then use the shorter 772s elsewhere ?

Is it true our dear friends at Swissport loaded all the FCA HER bags on the BOJ flight and all the BOJ bags on the HER flight Friday night. FCA has brought them all back to BHX sat morn from HER and BOJ. So pax in each destination without bags ?

Also to make matters worse they could not bring all the inbound bags as they had to bring back the outbound so most of inbound left in each destination also :\

OOOOOOOPPPPPPPPPPPSSS! :D NICE ONE :ok:

No not heard that one - another Trevor Mcdoughnut security lapse special coming on then?

Please no aviance v swissport v serviceair slanging matches.

Nice to see a JET A330 turn up just days after the article about a possible direct service in the future. Okay so it was a diversion but looked splendid on the 80's as I drove home from work in the brummie sunshine.

Out of interest who has the JET contract at BHX, mind you the delivery flights now seem to be going through Brussels.

Pete

I saw the JET parked on the tarmac. Was quite beatiful in the sunshine, was boarding an Air India at the time. Would rather have boarded the JET any day over AI.

Any reasons on why it was diverted

Per another forum it was due at Gatwick for maintenance but had not filed slot requests before departing (or their ops had not) and thus diverted to BHX. Don't shoot the messenger, I am just repeating what was stated on another forum and if true it seems a costly and unnecessary mistake.

It departed to Gatwick at about 2015 on the same day.

Pete

There was a GA aircraft, Seneca I think, on the approach to Birmingham BHX today then took off before it even hit the runway around about 3pm. Anybody know why? It had a blue tail i think.

There was a GA aircraft, Seneca I think, on the approach to Birmingham BHX today then took off before it even hit the runway around about 3pm. Anybody know why? It had a blue tail i think.

It carried out an ILS approach followed by a low approach & go around.

These training flights are a regular occurence at Birmingham (& many other UK airports & airfields)

FC

Folks,

On my home from work last night at about 1645 (local) while driving up Damson Parkway I noticed an a/c at a position I don't normally see them (I think it was relatively high, quite far down run way); appearing to land. I am quite prepared to believe this is just me seeing things.

However very shortly after 2 local fire service appliances and an ambulance service responder car piled into the airport via the Cargo entrance on the A45 (opposite Damson Parkway).

Does anybody know if anything happened? Was it a mayday / pan?

Rgds,


HC.

Bmi Baby 1003 BHX/EDI took off from BHX 1540(L) & found it could not raise its nose wheel, returned BHX via dumping fuel & declared full emergency on approach. Aircraft landed safely & taxied onto stand, fault found (much to Storm engineers embaressment :O) & aircraft refuelled/departed at 1815L. Passengers kept on board throughout.:ok:

I don't think 737 can dump fuel!

Nope you can't dump fuel on the 73, perhaps they went into the hold and burnt off some fuel.

Come, don't tease us. What was the embarassment?
Not another homemade pin, surely:rolleyes:

I know that simple stats of the number of destinations served from an airport by themselves do not mean a lot but thought this might be of interest. This winter, the BHX timetable is showing 61 direct scheduled destinations. Compare this to Liverpool (also 61), Edinburgh (62) and Bristol (63). Food for thought??? Obviously a lot more lies behind these, BHX still has a greater range of airlines serving it and better connections through key European hubs (although EDI is not far behind). BHX also has a much greater frequency of service on 'core' routes, BRU, CDG, FRA for example. It also of course has (for the time being) a stronger long haul scheduled network (the same cannot be siad for long haul charters when looking at BRS and EMA). However, these stats do show the phenomenal growth taking place at these airports and how lacking the scheduled European route network is at BHX - if something big does not happen soon at BHX it truly does face being left behind - the UK's 2nd biggest city with only the 9th biggest airport by 2010???

The range of destinations is a worry and one can only hope that BHX are on the case. Aer Lingus would have solved some of the problem and Easyjet still can if they can be persuaded and BHX are willing to deal.

Edinburgh will have BHX in its sights especially if the Ryanair rumour is true. As we all know BHX, like Manchester were caught clinging to BA's coat-tails and needs to get something done quickly otherwise the only way will be down.

Even BMI Baby, BHX's saving grace are removing two aircraft this winter
for maintenance (still up on 2006/7) and have delayed the start of the 5th daily EDI and 4th Daily Glasgow until late October. Both should have started tomorrow but have disappeared from the timetable.

On a brighter note Lyon is restored tomorrow through Air France and loads in general are good but the monthly increases are tiny compared to EMA, LPL & BRS.

It is hard to take and difficult to believe that EMA has a Madrid, Liverpool will have two operators on that route yet BHX & MAN have nothing and it speaks volumes in respect of the respective management teams. There are other examples not just Madrid.

Overall if BHX get Easyjet plus one or two more long-haul routes (one east one west) the future would look a little brighter and this still sounds possible but 2008 is not looking too good at the moment.

Pete

You can't think of BHX as serving just one city. It also serves passengers from miles around who find BHX as the easiest or sometimes ONLY airport that can suit them in the area. MAN has a catchment area from North Wales to Carlisle, which is a vast area and far greater than the BHX region who can also use MAN or LGW/LHR/STN.

Birmingham maybe the 2nd biggest city by size in the UK, but MAN is often considered the 2nd biggest city for business, commerce and culture. Manchester has many attractions that Birmingham cannot offer such as world renouned football teams and super-size shopping centres.

On the destination note, MAN offers more destinations than any other airport in UK, and 3rd in the world, but still falls around the 50th mark in world's biggest airports. Destinations is not everything! Passenger numbers is everything! For example. BHX-AGP consists of ZB and WW who both can offer upto 2 return flights daily each. This means, with an A321 (214) and a 733 (148), a maximum of 1448 passengers can fly this route on that particular day and this is before TOM, FCA etc. become involved! If you were flying from LPL, you would have upto three return flights per day on the route with EZY, who use A319 equipment (156). This would mean a maximum of 936 passengers could use the route on that particular day. I know this is only one route but it just shows that one route can mean over 500 passengers difference daily!

Sorry to go off track a bit...

Don't you think it is a pain in the arse that the roads leading up to the terminal building have not been re-opened yet. We know that they were closed because of the Glasgow airport incident, but I think that now is the time to re open the roads. The busiest airport in the UK Heathrow has their roads open and I am sure that most people would agree that it is probably more of a target than BHX.

It seems to me and many others that I have spoken to at the airport that BHX are jumping on the bandwagon and making money out of a security issue. Either the roads should be opened or the short stay car park should become a free drop off and pick up point.

Please let me know if I am being unreasonable here and any suggestions that could be put forward to BHX to make them change their minds.

It is an not ideal situation and it can be seen as making money out of security issues but there are alternatives to the drop-off charge.

There is a free 30 minutes in the long-stay, which is not too bad or do what I do, as I have stated before, get dropped at the International Railway Station and get the free people mover to the terminal.

On your return get your pick-up to meet at the station and if you are a little late there is 20 minutes free parking at the station.

This only falls down when there is a major trade event (16.00-18.00 especially) on or concert in the Arena and even then it is only an hour or two when things go mad.

Pete

I was at Heathrow (T3) on the 20th August - not a pleasant experience :(. There was no dropping off/picking up outside the terminal. I had to use the short stay multi storey - NO free time and it took 35 minutes to get out!

The airport cannot open the roads at the front of the building. They are closed by order from the Government. I think that the charges are there because of the limited amount of space in the short stay car park.
They are doing their best in a bad situation. I don't think even BHX could cock something up as bad as Government.
Many people are managing drop off only without resorting to entering the car park.

Birmingham maybe the 2nd biggest city by size in the UK, but MAN is often considered the 2nd biggest city for business, commerce and culture. Manchester has many attractions that Birmingham cannot offer such as world renouned football teams and super-size shopping centres. Typical, I don't think you have any idea as to what you are talking about.
I am not a Brummie but have to concede that Birmingham has everything that you imagine it has not.
Birmingham is known as the second city for exactly the reasons you quote. Manchester is a long way from catching up business and commerce wise.
You have never heard of the Bull ring?????
Maybe you should visit sometime. And yes, I do visit Manchester on a regular basis.
It is a great city. However it certainly is not in front.
As a 'by the way'...The airport would not be so large had it not stolen the last issue of funds from the old National Council for airports before it was disbanded. This left others to actually grow by having to be good.:p

Please do not degenerate into a Birmingham / Manchester slanging match. It has been covered thousends of times before.

Cente cities

I know, but it's hard when they troll on the forum. I'm sure we would all be better off sticking with the facts and not the fantasies. As if life in the airport world were not hard enough.....:rolleyes:

This is what I don't understand in Brum. They've placed large concrete blocks between the outer and inner access roads as a defence against vehicles being driven into the terminal. So why did they not place those concrete blocks between the inner road and the terminal? That would leave both access roads open. As it stands now, the traffic concentrates into a compact area (the short-stay car park) and that in itself creates a major security risk. Of course, it may be that preserving terminal buildings from possible damage is deemed more important than life and limb. I remain convinced that the authorities responsible for these "security" (:rolleyes:) measures (be it airport or government) are clueless.

Destinations is not everything! Passenger numbers is everything!

Actually, I would have profit would be a long way infront of passengers numbers & destinations.

FC

Agreed - BHX is a business and operates in a fiercely competitive market, therefore all decisions made by both the airport and airlines involved must be commercially sound ie the figures must add up!! But surely to increase profits at some stage you will need more passengers and airlines, two things that BHX seems to be very good at losing and at least publicly not seemingly not very bothered about replacing :confused: Or is it a case that retail outlets, bars and restaurants keep it financially above water, god knows theres enough of them now!

GF

At some stage, more airlines and more pax triggers a requirement for a chunk - sometimes quite considerable - of capital expenditure to increase capacity.

Airports can be nice and profitable when all their capacity is being used up and you can squeeze the assets to get a good return. Long term investment in major capacity at an airport is a risky business. If you build a new piece of terminal, it will take planning, construction and investment over a period of years during which time the planning scenario can change dramatically - witness the sudden changes to the security rules in the last few years or the dramatic rise in LCCs a decade back with their differing terminal requirements to the established carriers.

When you do finally manage to open the new capacity, it will not be fully used for a while and the returns will be less. Could this be a reason why many airports now seem reluctant to build new facilities and squeeze as much out of what they've got?

Of course this inevitably results in a reduction in service standards which doesn't do the relationships between the airport and airlines/SLF any good. Some SLF who have the option to go elsewhere will do so, whilst airlines will look at facilities / service levels at the Airport as part of any route review.

So such a strategy for an airport could be counterproductive if too many airlines/pax are lost. But at least it further puts off the need for further capacity investment and keeps the profits, bonuses and dividends up. :}

Suzeman.

Finally......................................................................................

An Airbus 340 landed at BHX - HZ 124 or HZ-124 or something similar :).

Another unenviable record consigned to the dustbin of history :D

Considering it is in frequently just down the M40 it is amazing it took so long.

Will it be a similar wait for the 380?

Peter

Cool I assume it was a -200 series? (if there is one) can't see the longer -600 doing it.

Certainly was, from the angle I first saw it from this morning thought it was an Il96, seemed too short to be a 340. When it taxied across though there was no mistaking the sight of an A340-200

Sadly I think Birmingham missed the boat, big style !...

like Manchester they relied on BA and didn't see the LCC boom coming, at least Manchester got in just in time... you are now losing margin to East Midlands and to a much lesser degree Coventry.

Personally looking from the outside, to me BHX appears to have lost its way, it stuck with high class scheduled but even this has now eroded as business people have become more price aware ....

Had it also had a runway extention it could even have been marketed as Londons third airport with a fast train link, but even that opportunity was missed, other than serving very niche markets ie the small business community or a price conscious Asian market it really is difficult to see exactly where it goes from here ! The package holiday market is in decline, if you do want a long haul package you go EMA or MAN, there are no LCCs, there is no cargo to speak of, plus the hub concept has also evaporated.

I would get into bed with Ryanair and fast !

That's the problem with looking from the 'outside' :rolleyes:

Go away,do some research, then come back and amend your last message....



S78

Bagso

BHX have not missed the boat at all just chose the pedalo :)

"no LCC's" - I know some only count EZY & FR but as SLF I would
say BABY are the next best thing. I have flown with them to EDI £26 & £27, Amsterdam, £31 & £40 and booked Prague at £45 return and in my
book that is lo-cost (although they won't make money out of me).

You know with Baby what you are going to get a fairly slow expansion
but to be fair three extra based units this year was not bad.

Coventry - a good thing in the end as it woke BHX up (a bit), got some of
their routes (AMS, FCO & NCE) and now barely notice the TOM flights
although Wizz have got off to a good start.

East Mids long-haul - I think it is reducing next year (well First Choice) but BHX is adding Montego Bay and Punta Cana. BHX also has Bridgetown
and Goa in winter and other than the total embarrassment of the Florida flights it is not that bad. Schedule flights westbound could and should be better but not the end of world.

There are some gaps with the European flights but both Ryanair & Easyjet have added destinations this winter but perhaps a bit more was expected of baby (taking two BHX overnighters away for maintenance).

The airport is profitable, plenty of space for parking aircraft, terminals not overcrowded and I have heard far less complaints than usual (I know that is subjective), in order words reasonably pleasant to fly from although security delays are hit and miss.

Ryanair - all very well but will the airport make any money from them, will the pax spend money in the shops? Nice big pax numbers but it has to cut both ways.

Pete

Was walking across Sheldon Country Park when the great four engined beast took off (am not a spotter, no idea it was due just luck I was there), from where I stood it used pretty much ALL the runway to get off indeed nearly shaving a few hairs off the top of me head as it screamed overhead - great sight though can't see it being a regular one!!

BHX have not missed the boat at all just chose the pedalo - what a great phrase get that trademarked!!!

Ryanair/LCCs - BHX does have LCC carriers but just ones that stay safe and stick to what they know they're good at, I can't see Baby, Flybe or Monarch doing anything particularly radical in the destinations department, even with extra aircraft etc. Each of these also have to consider routes from other airports aswell, particularly Flybe who it has to be siad def favour Southampton. I don't think BHX should get into bed with Ryanair, we have a good spread of airlines and a few would almost certainly shy away if FR were to set up a base (not that they will!), BUT a few more routes from them on 'W Pattern' would be nice to/from other bases in Europe (PLEASE Pisa so I can visit my sister without spending longer on the motorway getting to EMA than in the air!!!!)

Overall BHX is a good airport from the pax perspective (I was off a full Emirates 773, reclaimed bags and in my car in half an hour two weeks ago) but it does lack imagination in its routes - a bit more work on this and things would be better

Sorry, am I the only one to notice this pile of :mad: masquerading as news on the BHX website - I have never read such utterly banal drivel, scrapbooks, dinner and dancing, make time for each other I ask you!!!!!!!! Is this in any way aviation or company related?? Is the airport that short of news that it has to resort to 'This Morning' style daytime TV trivia in order to justify the existence of its Press Office? 'New research published today by BIA....' - surely there are far more important things to research like new destinations, passenger opinion of airport facilities, how competitor airports are faring etc??? I give up :ugh:

GF

I had noticed it and I thought what the...............

I know it was a quiet news week at BHX but I agree what a load of tosh.

Pax figures will be out next week and my estimate is just over million
(1001500) for August, which I am sure will be welcome if this is turns out to be true.

Hopefully back to true aviation matters and some good news!

Pete

Sorry folks just a SLF - Born in Brum - A Spotty Reggie . The issue of Pax figs at Brum relate to the changing nature of the local Economy ??? and perhaps the decline on Numbers especially on Business routes - Milan for example ! indicates broader changes of employment patterns in region, and this affects the prospects of all the people who work in av industry - Is it time to really look again at al of the assumptions behind the grandiose expansion plans - Customer LHR/SFO Sunday Week - thanks ( I hope i'm not off Topic).:{

As an exiled Brummie I have always tried to fly from BHX whenever possible. It was often more cost effective to drive down from darkest Scotland and park/stay at the Mother-in-Laws and then spend a fiver in a taxi to get to the airport.

But with the expansion of Ryanair/Easyjet/Transavia and others from Newcastle/Glasgow/Edinburgh and even MME it gets more and more expensive to fly from Brum.

Would a big input from FR/EZY make things better or merely chase other operators away? Does BHX suffer from its proximity to the London airports as opposed to MAN?

I do hope that BHX does enter the budget flight market more than it does now as it is a good airport to fly from. The only downside was stopping at the M-I-Laws. :)

It always amazes me that people can only harp on about Ryan air when trying to sort any airport problems. Ryan air does not mean huge profits for airports. MOL and his cronies want airports to pay them rather than pay anything for using the facilities. Trouble is not enough of their Pax spend enough money in the shops....
At the end of the day Brum is a profitable airport. We have a bunch of LoCo ops and Ryan air are trying to sneak back in after MOL's embarrassing outburst about BIA costs.
Had it also had a runway extension it could even have been marketed as London's third airport with a fast train link, but even that opportunity was missed, other than serving very niche markets ie the small business community or a price conscious Asian market it really is difficult to see exactly where it goes from here !London's third airport????:* What a stupid statement. It's not a London anything. It's Birmingham airport. Birmingham has enough Commerce to keep it going thank you. I Think you need to re-evaluate your thoughts and try and get a grip on some reality.
It is in no worse and in some cases a lot better shape than anyone else. Once the New pier and Runway work has been finished it will be the fastest growing airport in the country. Yes it should have been done earlier, but, I don't think there is a single airport in the country that has all the answers and all the right boxes ticked....

well said call 100.

Work should begin on the mentioned new pier during next summer (2008) with an estimated completion by september 2009. It will be built parallel to the existing pier which will be demolished when the new pier is finished. the new pier will be designed to accomodate up to 7 large wide bodied aircraft (747 size) at any one time plus additional stands for smaller aircraft. The existing apron control tower is thought to escape the demolition and remain in place (with a refurbishment). I hope all the building work doesnt cause too much disruption but i guess its short term pain for long term gain. ;)

As for the runway extension, it cant come soon enough! the sale of half of BIA ownership hasnt helped but the new owners have agreed on the extension and following a revised master plan a planning application will be submitted hopefully by the end of the year. A new ATC tower has to built first though before work begins on the runway i believe. Hopefully its all completed in time for the olympics which is a perfect global advertising / commercial opportunity for BHX.

Interesting times ahead me thinks, and when its all completed the future looks very bright with doors opening in the long haul market in all directions! :ok:

bmibaby is likely to introduce a new route from B'ham to Madrid in the coming days.

Not announced on either bmibaby.com or the BHX website but it is available for booking and is in the schedule on baby.com

Route start's 7th December: 4x weekly, Mon/Wed/Fri/Sun

WW1377: Departs BHX: 1025, Arrives MAD: 1355
WW1378: Departs MAD: 1450, Arrives BHX: 1620

I looked at the first flight prices and it's showing as £5.99! for one adult. Great news I think! :cool: :ok:.

It is now on bhx.co.uk

To Lee :ok: on the EMA/BMI thread for the information in advance.

Shame they have cut the Edinburgh to three a day at the moment when
it should have increased to five. Hopefully this is a short-term measure.

The Madrid fits into a gap and now makes BHX six based aircraft
very busy on the days the Madrid operates.

Sunday is a surprise as the last time I looked BHX required 8 aircraft, one
of which is the EDI based one which operates through the weekend but
the other?

Pete

Good news for BHX. The airport is slowly getting back routes lost when BA pulled out. Initial loads on the new AF LYS route look good too. Heres to more routes soon as hinted at by bhx.co.uk press release.
(SZG would please me!)

Great news, tapas and cerveza all round to celebrate!!:D Well done Lee on keeping us informed - any more tips from Baby for the future??!

Splash&dash - thanks for the info about developments, very interesting, a new pier is well overdue, I should imagine Emirates for one will be pleased I should imagine it is nigh on impossible to comfortably board the 773 from 40 or 41 if the flight is full, not to mention no area reserved for business pax. I also heard on hearsay that the state of holding lounges (ie lack of facilities) was also one of the reasons PIA transit flights stopped (although methinks the 777, getting a better deal from MAN and the ability to fly non stop was more the reason).

Great news for the airport and especially for the airline!

Lets hope that WW also look at MAN too!

hehe well I did say months ago Baby was going to do BHX-MAD, get ready for Ryanair to slash its fares on EMA-MAD. Now maybe some users will listen to me when I say more about other routes from EMA with Ryanair. . .

Lee

im sure we will see BHX-EMA-GLA this winter

bhx-ema??

dumdum at his best!!

You were spot on about Madrid but are you absolutely sure about this one Lee?? Last and indeed only time I flew BHX-EMA was with British Midland on an F100 going to Jersey in 1998, no sooner had we taken off than we had landed again (my dad however has a hazy memory of flying BHX-EMA on Brymon going to Gatwick and swears he got a cup of tea and a biscuit, bless him!! Ah them were the days....) In this day and age it just can't be economical to do such a short journey especially on a flight thats only 50 mins anyway?? I would be much happier to see instead Baby going to SXF, VCE, PSA, SZG or indeed any one of the many cities in Europe that is not served from BHX:bored:

I have my contacts other than findingnema in Baby, i have a friend who knows someone in Tinyland planning. I dont think it would be a good idea for Baby to even try and do PSA or SXF, I would like to see them try new routes and exciting routes, like the new wave of eastern european coutries to join the EU

Lee

During the winter when there is a lot of heavy maintenance to the baby fleet, though it does happen with tech a/c in the summer, flights between EMA and BHX are combined. Whether it means operating a flight into BHX and coaching some to EMA, or operating a flight with a stop to pick up pax, this is going to be particularly prevalent again this winter, particularly if the fleet is being shrunk. PSA and SZG have both been operated by baby in the past, and have been dropped as quietly as they were launched. It's worth thinking yourselves as lucky at BHX that you get the more imaginative of routes because the competition is considerably easier. I had heard MXP would be joining FCO on the Italian network soon though.

finding_nema

Although MXP is served this can't come soon enough, Flybe still appear
to have no intention of moving the 145 off yet.

However MXP will need to be double daily and that means another
aircraft based or a re-jig of the schedule.

Lee

As for GLA, the main problem is the last inbound to BHX, especially Tuesday through Thursday. The best thing pax wise would be to run the
last BHX-GLA up at 1900-2000 and night-stop it and bring it back early
as they were going to do with EDI from last week (now 29/10).

However of course this then causes overnight costs for the crew so
they probably can't win but they definitely need that late departure
from BHX.


GF

Spot-on with those routes, fairly safe 3-5 times a week.

Pity they did not stick their neck out on the days the aircraft does not go to Madrid and do Krakow. SkyEurope were averaging between 75 & 85% and I suggest it would have continued if the base was not to close.

Pete

...with regard to a SXF service from Birmingham......Baby i'm hoping will introduce this route and i'm positive it will do more than well !!!!!!! More than enough pax to go round for both airports. I've certainly never made the trip up the road to EMA.....never intend to.....have a superb Intercontinental airport on my doorstep which i use regularly.......

nb ryanair cares for nothing and no-one....including the cabin crew.....you guys just feed the monster............'dispensable' springs to mind...if not sooner then later...!

Bud :rolleyes:

No im sorry Ryanair does care about its staff, well those who are hard workers anyway, and those who do not work hard and have no shows will be sacked, ie tonight EMA base has a summer party with £4,000 on the bar more than some other airlines.

Also I know without saying names, my base manager tried to keep some staff who have been with Ryanair for while who are leaving to work for Silver Jet and Virgin, because both of them want to do longhaul, even willing to take a pay cut. *but this thead isn't about ryanair and its staf*

Can Baby actually fly to Germany, i thought it was in the star alliance?

Lee

Depending on who you believe, the bmi group are restricted from flying to Germany and Scandinavia in their own right as a result of the ECA, a treaty that was signed between bmi, Lufthansa and SAS in 1999, when the two carriers bought shares in British Midland. BM substituted all of their routes to these countries, and instead code-shared with their Star partners. This agreement runs out in December, so bmi and bmibaby could theoretically fly wherever they want. baby has flown to Germany before (MUC from EMA and CWL, both were quite popular) and CPH was an original bmibaby winter destination in 2002 but was apparently quietly dropped due to SAS interference. If there are any exciting new routes then it will be down to the BHX base, as baby are hemmed in at MAN & EMA, and CWL never seems on the radar for anything overly exciting.

I hope the Handling Agents can cope with the increases. A/C are continually kept waiting for staff to turn up on stand. Staff rushing around to cope is certainly not safe. Lets hope the accidents are avoided........:rolleyes:

Believe the deal between bmi and star alliance partners ends next year. It doesn't just stop Germany and Scandinavia but Poland too. When the deal is over I think you will see a lot of new routes at BHX. However, WW is a cautious company and rightly so ! It's very easy to lose a lot of money very quickly even with "full" aircraft. Pax figures mean nothing. What they are willing to pay means everything. Ryanair make virtually no profit in flying passengers. They make it elsewhere but that's for another thread ! Baby, Fly Be and others just aren't in a similar position. Routes must pay, full loads or not. To miss quote Bill Clinton "It's the yield stupid !" Just not sure it's there on a lot of the routes hailed on the thread or they'd be being operated by someone. We ain't all stupid in the business you know ! If it'll make money we'll be there like a shot. Next year may be a more interesting one providing nothing external puts a spanner in the works !

Back to the Million club even if it will be a brief stay: -

1005484 for August - still lower than 2005 :rolleyes:

It could be back down to earth with a bang as well unless schedules save the day in September. My estimates show 30-50000 decrease on last year, just hope I am wrong and it lives up to be one the best "business pax" months of year.

EK are doing well, the Rugby World Cup will sort most of the French routes out but with Baby and Flybe cancelling several flights this week it is not
looking good.

On a brighter note SAS operated tonight (cancelled last night), I believe finding a MD to replace the Q400.

Pete

OP - Welcome news even if looking short lived, the million club how long before we see that at BRS? :ooh: At least we have new AF Lyon doing well....any news on Krakow surely someone must be looking at this????


Ryanair make virtually no profit in flying passengers. They make it elsewhere but that's for another thread !


Cheeky - very interesting post indeed, as someone who does not work for an airline can you please explain briefly where FR do make their money and wherever it is why Baby can't do the same?? And also why routes mentioned seemingly can't work financially from BHX when they supposedly do from EMA and BRS, amongst others. If you don't want to post on this thread could you send me a private message, am just interested thats all!

Without being too specific there are certain facts of life in the flying business. It's not enough to fly to a place where people want to go. People want to go everywhere. You have to find places that people are willing to pay to go and go regularly. Poland is a good example. You'd could easily fill several 737s a day from BHX to various places in Eastern Europe. It's just when you make the fares an economically viable level they all get back on the bus !

Economically viable level is a loose term and varies airline to airline. The cost of running an airline does not increase drastically per aircraft. The costs of running five are not hugely more than running one. A lot of your costs are fixed. The cost per aircraft actually decreases as the company grows, provided of course you find something for all the jets to do and you can pursuade enough people to get on them. So a big airline can afford to take a smaller yield from each flight. Baby, Fly Be, Whizz air, Central Wings, etc.. are minows. FR and to a lesser extent EASY are giants.

FR control costs to the penny. They fleeced Boeing when orders disappeared in 2001 and are still paying massively under the current market price for their aircraft. That enables them to constantly fly brand new aircraft with massive savings in maitenance. They don't fly anywhere that charges them in a serious way, people who want to fly their aircraft pay them for the training (I know other operators do this but FR are real pros) and the whole airline is run by about three people in Dublin ! That's why the yield they need per aircraft (and they have a lot more aircraft than the competition) per flight is so much lower than everyone else. That is why routes that would be massively marginal to everyone else work for FR.

There is also a shortage of aircraft in the lease market and lease rates are going through the roof. If you can get an aircraft it will be expensive. If it's expensive it needs to run full on paying routes. The bean counters just don't like the "I'm sure that route would work" or "I know loads of people who would go on that" arguements. A lot of people spend a lot of time researching potential routes and a lot of computer power is expended calculating the potential profit and loss. They don't always get it right of course. It took Baby a long time to work out that MAD was a route that needed getting on. It is ! In the same way I can't believe Fly Be dropped LYS.

But if you don't have the aircraft or the ones you can get are massively expensive, from a business point of view taking the chance on a couple of routes could wipe you out very quickly. Leases are usually long. Where will the economy be in five years. Everytime you take on a new aircraft or start a new route you gamble a lot of money. Again "gamble" is not a word in the vocabulary of the bean counters.

GF

No news on Krakow and it was disappointing that Centralwings didn't
go for it like they are at Manchester.

The NE August load factor was about 93%, which leads me on to CheekyVisuals reply. I agree what has been said but as a BHX
pax watcher for over 25 years (sad I know) I can honestly say that
not many routes (if any) have been lost with load factors above 75%.

The SkyEurope looks like taking that particular title but of course
there are mitigating circumstances (the base is closing). The last
one I can remember with reasonable loads were as CheekyVisual mentioned, Lyon and many years ago Iberia Madrid (I trust that
was down to Iberia's own costs and lack of J class fares).

Flybe dropped Bergamo after some stunning loads but again it
was seasonal and I believe that there were aircraft issues
(Q400/Alps) but that might have been Southampton as BHX
was mainly the 146.

I will post some of the August stats as they are a right mixed bag
but long-haul is flying as they say - just not enough of them :confused:

Pete

OP and Cheeky - thank you both for the information, both are well written and very informed posts - appreciated. I assume that with a load factor like that someone must be at least looking at doing KRK even if not necessarily launching straight away, like Lyon I think this one will be back :ok: (although I know that load factor does not necessarily mean high yield!). Having said that, I still do think that there are some routes that could work at BHX I guess it just needs the right airline, IMO better to grow cautiously a la Baby and make it work in the long term rather than gung-ho expansion and the pitfalls mentioned by Cheeky. Lets see what Summer 08 brings (gotta be better than this year.....:confused: or maybe not!

OP

Just because routes with load factors greater than 75% haven't been lost in the past doesn't mean that it won't happen now. In the past most BHX routes have been with traditional carriers where 75% L/F was once very respectable. Things are different now.

You may not make money on some routes with 90% L/F nowadays - or even if you do there may be a more profitable route for you to use the aircraft on.

Airlines are constantly monitoring every routes' performance and will sometimes do things that look very strange to us outsiders but which make perfect business sense within the company.

Suzeman

Suzeman

To true and this is where I assume yield management kicks in. If you are not making money on 75%+ you stick the fares up and if the route is not strong enough to maintain a similar load factor the route will be dropped.
I have seen plenty examples of that happening at BHX.

The only airline where I have noticed routes go with high load factors is
some of Easy's from various airports. Not sure about Ryanair as their cost base is supposed to be lower and they seem to let a few flights drift well
below 75%.

Then there is the exception such as Cologne, low fares and low load factors and it still carries on :confused:. Did average 90 in August = 60% LF:eek:

As for BMI Baby's cagey strategy at BHX, look at the number of routes dropped, just Newquay as of now. It is difficult argue against this method (although against weak competition) and hopefully they will continue to grow at a reasonable rate. The only downside for me is that some of their 737's do worry me, especially when I am on them;).

Pete

Olton Pete
Whilst some of Baby's 737s may be a bit old and sometimes tired looking, I'm sure the crews that operate them wouldn't fly them if they thought them to be unsafe. So there's nothing to worry about.

Just a few to save boring the masses.

Baby
Marseille, 4651 pax at 129 per flight or 87% load factor
Nice, 8081 pax at 130 per flight or 87% load factor
Bordeaux 7037 pax at 114 per flight or 85% load factor - 735/73
Lisbon 4690 pax at 130 pax per flight or 87% load factor
Barcelona, 8214 pax at 132 pax per flight or 89% load factor
Prague, 7409 pax at 120 per flight or 90% load factor (735 mainly)
Rome, 7889 pax at 127 per flight or 87% load factor
Knock 9062 pax at 132 per flight or 89% load factor

Other destinations they share AGP had 87%, PMI, 88%, MJV 86%, ALC, 84%, Cork 81%.

Flybe

Brest 2045 pax 57 per flight 73% Load factor (down from 2563 pax)
La Rochelle 1861 pax, 55 pax or 84% load factor (down from 2533 pax)
Bergerac 1706, 39 pax or 79% load factor (down from 2513 pax)
Toulouse 1715, 39 pax or 80% load factor (down from 4155 pax)
Milan MXP 2205 20 pax or 41% load factor (down from 4023 pax)
Stuttgart 2933 pax at 19 per flight or 38% load factor (down fr 3435)
Dubrovnik 2342 pax or 90 pax per flight, 76% Load factor
Galway 1329 pax, 51 per flight at 65%

Norwegian to Warsaw 4894 pax at 136 per flight or 91%
SkyEurope to Krakow 2498 pax at 139 per flight or 93%
Newark 9690 or 156 per flight at 89%
Dubai 36674 or 296 per flight or 83% - Brilliant
Islamabad up to 8948 at 248 per flight or 76% load factor
Ashkhabad up to 5743 pax at 160 per flight or 85ish%
Zurich up to 12929 or 70 per flight or 74% load factor.

Cologne was up but only managed 90 per flight and Waterford was 2525 pax at 47 per flight which I believe is about 70% load factor.

A bad one this month was a real surprise - Munich 8919 down from 12353

A good set of figures except for Milan, Stuttgart, Cologne still and the Munich. Some of the flybe routes were operated the previous year by larger aircraft and it the reason the pax are down but load factors up.

Pete

Starting to show that BA held a prestigious name in the European market especially from BHX and BE are now starting to feel it. The problem with BE is that they are replacing services perfect for a 50 seats aircraft with aircraft that have 78 seats and the demand is just not there with their fares!

Eben though I am a BLK&MAN man myslef, it is a shame to see drops in passenger numbers at any airport and I hope BE can push with the routes and see increases over the coming months. MXP will definately increase during the winter period when the ski resorts open and the German routes will see increases in Xmas shoppers.

Would also like to congratulate EK and CO for their excellent passenger numbers! Let it continue and maybe CO would look at a second daily 752 for next summer!

Congrats BHX!

MUFC_fan

Continental ran double daily a couple of years ago and if the posts on another forum were true it was a disaster. Someone posted CO's top
loss makers across the Atlantic in 2005(or 2004) and BHX was shown
as one of those routes (a couple of million I believe).

Of course this is assuming that the info was correct and I can't believe that CO would be happy with this type of sensitive information posted on the Net for all to see but a strange hoax if it was.

It was then reduced to 10 a week (2006) but was briefly in the system as double daily for summer 2007 before disappearing from the booking engines around October/November 2006.

As for flybe they have not increased the seats on any of the ex Bacon routes in fact they have reduced, such as the DUS which had a couple of RJ100's on the route and is now 145's. Also, Frankfurt has gone from 4 to 3 a day.

What has not changed are the fares, still the same as Bacon except the flights don't run on time (well April to June they didn't) and they have alienated what few business pax were left.

However some Q400's will replace the 145's slowly and if the base fare is reduced they will fill most of the flights no problem.

The problem and fear is that he longer sectors such as MXP, FRA, STR & HAM will be pulled once the 145's go.

If they keep the prices at their current levels they will not fill 195's and then it is a question of the few remaining pax being able to sustain the service on the fares they have paid - some think that is unlikely.

Pete

How are Whoosh doing on the Dundee?

If they'd have started Newquay as advertised this year, we'd have at least another destination back on board.

With the sucess of Lyon (& presumably Paris?), I wonder if Air France (or one of its partners) would consider any other routes out of BHX, Strasbourg perhaps?

FC

FC

I must admit I had not worked the domestics out but Dundee was 1471
for August.

I make it 86 rotations if the Friday morning was axed throughout August giving an average of 17, which is about 37% (based on 46 seats).

I presume that is not too bad for such a young route and hopefully they can stick it out and build on these figures.

Pete

an average of 17 may not be enough to save this route, heard rumours that 20 was the break even figure & it only gets that on certain days, may be that he will have to drop one of the flights on certain days (Weds for sure where single fig's are the norm). Winter will be the tester for Aden for sure.

If anyone is interested, the Saudi Princes private A340 is operating back into BHX tonight (unknown however how many of his wives on board this time), it will remain on stand 86 for the rest of the week. Rumour has it that it has its own keypad activated alarm system? thats why you don't see any security around the aircraft.

Bruppy

Any idea which prince it actually was? Also was it a private owned a.c or a charter?

Anyone any idea why SN Brussels have cancelled several flights for the last couple of days? Hope it isn't low loads?
Daza

Appears as if CGN will be chopped for good at the end of the winter season. TUIFly's summer 08 will go on sale tomorrow, but as it appears, BHX will no longer feature in their schedules.
Augsburg, Duo, Germanwings and now TUIFly - four have tried it in the past 10 years with no success.

virginblue

Go back a bit further and add Maersk Fk50's and BA 1-11's and didn't
Lufthansa use a FK50 or and I am I just thinking of the Augsburg Dash?

As I have monitored the CAA stats at BHX for over 20 years in various
forms I don't think any route can claim to be as consistently bad for loads
as Cologne. I assume at some point yields must have been okay but saying that I an unsure which airline has lasted the longest on the route.

Certainly can't knock HLX too much, as they have give it a year with low fares and the only questionable aspect was the times (not business friendly at all).

Daza

I notice from another forum that two SN's were logged this lunch-time and one was a 737. I assume that at least one was tech.

legalize

Can't tell you his name as I have not been paying attention too much but allegedly he lives south of BHX but not too close (well one of his properties) and there are other aspects as well such as schools.

Pete

You are right about LH etc. They used to serve BHX as part of the failed Euro-Hub at CGN in the early 1990s. Not sure about Birmingham European - did they ever serve CGN (they were DUS regulars, weren't they?).

The X3 loads to CGN are not exactly terrible. The average this year has been 77 pax - which is hardly 50% in a B737, but would make it a good route for a 100seater.

Another month, another airline and route drops off the radar. So farewell Cologne (again!) not great news but no real surprise. I am sure this route would have done better with a more sociable flight time and perhaps the option to do a day return - the same goes for Billund which has also recently disappeared. In the words of the late great Freddie Mercury "and another one bites and another one bites and another one bites the dust" Perhaps this rock epic could be used as the new BHX corporate anthem or played on the SkyRail??;)

I guess this is good news for EMA, since easyJet fly to cologne, at a time when Ryanair has just added yet another new route from EMA. Seems to be a real lack of flights to Germany, lets not forget Germany is our biggest trading partner in Europe :hmm:

Lee

...if i'm reading timetable correctly then it's 2 a week from X3 for the winter period...mon and friday i believe


regards

Bud

No, for the winter BHX-CGN is five times weekly (X26). Summer lfights 08 are now bookable and indeed BHX not available after 31MAR08.

As for Easyjet's EMA route to CGN, there have been rumours here in Germany that it might be chopped as well as it is only available until early January 08.

The EasyJet CGN flight is being dropped to allow them to start PMI, initially the frequencies are going to be reduced before the route is cut altogether. Not sure if anybody is planning any replacement service to that part of Germany, though surely the flybe and Lufthansa DUS flights will see a small surge in bookings.

Apparently baby's new routes next summer might be more to eastern europe than other med destinations from BHX - just a hot tip from Tiny Town.

Need to get a move on - Gdansk from Coventry 3 times a week has been
announced today so I am told but horrible times on the UK outbound.

Pete

As a regular on the X3 (HLX) route, I'm terribly disappointed but not at all surprised. I never flew on a flight more than half full and that included the odd Friday flight. They tried a little longer than Germanwings but the loads just never improved. I'm going to miss them though. I guess it's back to either BEE or CLH from DUS, or DAT (Brussels Airlines) from BRU. All a lot more expensive than HLX :(

Didn't think it would be long before new routes announced from CVT, just as they have done from DSA - apparently load factors very high on Katowice from CVT. What is it about BHX and Poland (or indeed most other Eastern European nations) that just doesn't connect. Lets hope Baby indeed come to the rescue or else BHX will continue to move yet further into the shadows:ugh:

sounds like some people aren't happy about cvt and their expansion to poland!!. dont think bhx will be to upset about cvt and wizz air, considering tom has moved some flights from cvt to bhx. regarding baby coming to the rescue cant see it working otherwise wizz would of started from bhx and not cvt.. perhaps not enough polish people in birmingham as there is in coventry, hence wizz flying a320's into cvt and not bhx.

Wizz expansion is welcome for Coventry, however that is better dealt with one thinks on the Coventry thread.

You might find that WIZZ like to fly from airports for next to nothing hence the absence from BHX.

As to the Polish in Birmingham only have to visit the city or any service idustry to see that there are a great number in the area.

I think that on the regional Polish flights that the cost of the ticket is everything.

Centre cities

Whizz is only being driven by the very large Polish community in Coventry. Even before the recent influx Coventry had strong ties to Poland. I don't think it's any threat to Birmingham.

Just a "fishing trip" really folks to see if anybody has any info at all on an ad-hoc charter (possibly on a freight a/c) into either BHX or CVT this afternoon with parts on board for a car manufacturer not a million miles from BHX.

The charter would have probably only been arranged this morning / lunch time.

I am lead to believe that as of 1300 local the a/c would be approx 30 minutes into its flight and the eta is 1430/1500; and I would guess it would come from Eastern Europe somewhere. Subsequent to its arrival I would imagine a big hurry to get the parts to destination.

I appreciate I am very vague on details but this is all I have. Would be interested in a/c details / owner, departure a/d, arrival a/d, charter firm etc.

Only interested for nosey reasons really - no commercial interest. Many thanks in advance.

HC.

Nothing into bhx today as regards freighters OR AD-HOC movements apart from the OU flight from Split, there will be the fedex ATR later to CDG but nothing else of interest. May have gone into CVT or EMA but not BHX.

Bazzab68

Looks like it went into CVT on a Cessna Caravan 1; many thanks folks.

The 737 grounded the other day was due to a bird strike however they have canx the first flight on a Sat for the fourth week running today which isn't good!

It would appear that since its reformation Brussels airlines seems to cancel flights and add flight loads together and cancel flights. Perhaps the 734 and 733 aircraft they use to BHX are too big and the AR1 and AR8 are more suited to the 6x daily schedule. Its not good for a mainly "business" carrier to cancel flights although they do have a monopoly at BHX so whats the alternative?
Daza

Daza/stupot7783

When the winter 2007/8 schedules were first loaded they were showing all
six flights as RJ85's, which seemed to make sense.

However I think a 733 has now appeared on one of the evening flights and
I think there might be some RJ100's as well.

I noticed a 319 turned up last night.

In days gone by the 18.00 inbound always needed to be more than a 85 seater but I am insure if this is still the case with 6 a day.

There are also slight time changes in the winter and it looks like a more balanced set of timings. The September figures will be interesting as August was only just over half the May or June figure but it was only running at 3 a day.

Pete

Not been here for a while, but was talking to one of my friends, a 'creative type' who reckons he's in the know;) Possibly some press announcement this week as a pre-amble to the launch of the adopted Master Plan. Looks like BHX is concentrating on the runway extension, and virtually dropping the idea of a second wide spaced short runway. Also in the pipeline is a Terminal 3 by 2018 and for some reason the Elmdon old terminal's days look numbered:{

Isn't the old terminal a listed building? If it is they would have to come up with some good reasons to knock it down to get past the planning authorities. And why would it need to come down if they are extending the current runway and building a new terminal where long stay 1 and the staff carpark are?

Something to note the short runway is finally being consigned to the bin and becoming taxiways. This is happening in the next few weeks.
Winter works on Taxiway re-surfacing. Badly needed.:D
I won't spoil the Master plan announcements but it is looking pretty good...;)

From what I can remember, the old art-deco terminal and tower is grade 1 listed, heck of a fuss to pull that lot down! The later add-ons (if you can remember when they went up) such as customs & immigration, animal reception, crew rooms and the old spotting room and cafe etc., ain't . Mind you, I reckon that you couldn't bulldoze them without the terminal falling over.
As an aside, I hobbled through old Elmdon a few years ago now, after the move, on a revisit to recapture the good old days , and the place was like a time warp. Apart from a few "portacabins" housing various enterprises, all the old check-ins, shop, bank etc were still in situe, very spooky. Is it still the same in there?

I'm afraid the interior had a complete refurbishment some years ago. Full of offices and meeting rooms etc. now. Though, if you worked there you can still stand and notice little things that bring back memories of the good old days....:ooh:
The only other building like it is at Templehof, Berlin, I believe.

Apparently again looking at bhx with 752 bhx-phl according to rumours on airliners.net. Anyone know anymore as sources seem to be us based and not from the uk ie hearing any rumours around the airport. Sounds promising if true.




barry - bhx

There was a post on a.net a few hours ago claiming no 2008 International
expansion from PHL due to an unresolved problem with International gates.

It says BHX planned for 2009 along with Beijing, Moscow and Tel Aviv.

This is third year out of the last four that we have been lead to believe
that US Airways have been evaluating PHL-BHX, it is almost getting boring.

They have the 75W's and subject to one of them being released for Int work you would think that they will get on with it or forget it for ever.

The other part of the post "it is too late for summer 2008 expansion" was virtually the same excuse used for 2007 and they still added 3 routes.

I do understand that there are a finite number of International gates
available to US Air at PHL but it is hardly a new problem.

I am keeping the faith that BHX will get at least one more transatlantic in 2008.

Pete

Ta Call100 for that, only ever went through EGBB on a prof basis back then, very rarely as SLF, but must say that EGBB was one of the friendliest places that I've ever transited, more akin to a family run operation than a place of work. Loved the place, and as mostly SLF nowadays, still do, compared to the nearest competition.

No problem. We didn't need ID cards then. Everyone new everyone...It was like a family. Many still work at the new airport. Those days are often fondly talked about....We still try to be as friendly a possible to those we work with and serve.....:D:ok:

Gone has the night-stopping Edinburgh aircraft and it stays at three a day rather than the five that should be operating now (one advert remover required on the A45 just outside the Clock).

Glasgow also not going to four a day and Barcelona on Wednesday has
gone. Rome, Malaga, Faro and Lisbon have time changes to name but
a few.

I thought at first it was to remove another aircraft but the revised
schedule still requires 7 but some days the one aircraft does only one flight unless a route is for the chop or there will be some more destinations added this winter.

Pete

BHX Draft master plan.....

Master plan here.. (http://www.bhx.co.uk/Press/220.pdf)

Interim Statement & plan (http://www.bhx.co.uk/Press/335.pdf)


Takes some trawling through.....Plans are about three quarters down......Interim statement gives quick view. Saves a bit of a trawl.
Nothing I can see changed from the plans we have had up for the last few months......

Well that's a first.....No one wishing to comment on the 'Master Plan'?
If (and it's a big if), it all goes ahead then its a massive step in the right direction. Dropping the second runway made sense. It was only going to be used for regional stuff anyway.
The Ground engine run facility is a desperate need. Saves blocking taxiways as the present system does.
Hopefully the new tower will be something Iconic and instantly recognisable.

Sadly the new tower isn't going to be anything iconic, or even architecturally exciting, just a bog standard tower.

As far as I know the designs are not even in yet........:uhoh:

Well that's a first.....No one wishing to comment on the 'Master Plan'?


Thats probably because most of it will never happen...........:rolleyes: Sorry to be cynical - seriously will be just what the airport needs, I just hope there is enough demand for long haul flights that the runway extension is being designed to attract (and not just for while the Olympics are on)

So what's not going to happen then? A few bits may go by the way but I believe the majority will be completed. We are talking a period of 22 years for the main master plan completion, so of course some will change. The short term plan will definitely complete.
The runway extension will bring permanent benefits and route expansion well beyond the Olympics. That is one of the target dates as the US and Chinese teams are basing in Birmingham. Great opportunity for some free worldwide publicity.

Seems to be released and it is similar to winter 2007/8 except an extra
Monday flight. However it is an extra flight a day compared to Summer
2007 and Shannon remains 6 a week but again an increase on this summer.

As for the first part of expansion (Pier, tower & runway) it all looks pretty good and as call100 says why should it not go-ahead unless there is/are any unforeseen disasters around the corner.

The relief from the locals about the second runway not going ahead
seems to have subsided and they are about to focus on the 400m
extension :rolleyes:.

Pete

Prompted by the Belfast City - Galway impending axe, I checked BHX.

The original winter schedule had Tuesday, Thursday & Saturday but it
now only shows October in the booking engine.

I suppose it might be back for summer 08 as flybe operate quite a few
seasonal routes. CAA Stats show that it has not set the world alight
and flybe never carried as many as Arran when they operated it.

Pete

I always thought it an odd route to introduce in the 1st place.

Got this one totally wrong and what a result :D

969407 up 2%

IT's were down 17000 making schedules even better than I first thought.
I had under estimated 1000 schedule pax per day, which has been a nice surprise.

As for my IT estimates, which is the easiest of all to calculate... I can't
explain other than a bad hair (if I had any) day. My estimate was 900000, I must keep remembering to take the happy pills.

2% compared to East Mids and Luton might sound poor but considering
the loss of BACON it is not that bad at all.

Per East Mids thread, baby are to announce two new routes and assuming
one is EMA - WAW, I wonder if the other is a new one for BHX?

Not much space in the BHX schedule for winter (Tu, Th Sat day flight) unless another route is reduced. My guess/hope is Krakow but this one is not amongst the rumours, yet SkyEurope have averages around 75-85% recently and it only has a few weeks to run.

Could it be MAN or CWL for change?

Pete

Could it be MAN or CWL for change?


You have got to be kidding!

The only thing WW are interested in is expanding the EMA and BHX bases. You be very surprised if the route was from MAN - unless it was MAD!;)

Does anybody know whether Monarch will be adding new routes from BHX next summer? The Monarch thread implied that the company was cutting quite a lot of Scheduled routes system-wide.

There were rumours that BHX would get aircraft number 5 but it has all gone quiet.

Summer 2008 is a virtual copy of summer 2007 with the odd tweak here and there but hardly noticeable at the moment.

While TJ is still there, then there is always hope.

Another forum has Monarch receiving 3 more 321's arriving next year, April, May & September but no hint where these are all going assuming it is true.

Pete

Just checked a few reservation systems out and noted the
following: -

From 7/1/08 SAS evening flight re-timed to 1520/1600 and upgraded from
the Q400 to MD80 series.

It stays the same aircraft type for summer but 10 minutes later.

From April the morning flight on Mon & Wed is a 319.

The Q400 remains on the weekend flights :eek:

Lufthansa Munich from 2/1/08 is showing as a 735 on the afternoon
flight and night-stopper. There is the odd cancellation in the first week
but then they both stay as a 735's until the end of March less a week
of CR7/9's in February. Back to 3 x RJ85 in April.

Added to the afternoon 16.40 KLM going back to mainline as well
not too bad for winter.

Pete

I know that quantity does not necessarily equal quality, but surely Swissport must be doing something right at BHX, as they are now the largest handling agent at the airport, having been there only for a few years.

Do we know who has the new "Thomas Cook/MyTravel" contract and
when does it start?

I am just presuming that there will be a decision at some point as TCK are
Aviance and MYT Swissport.

Pete

Re Swissport...
Well it's definitely not a buyout of BHX. The new board meet next week. Don't think they will want to sell what they just aquired. The councils definitely are not selling.
If the Company President showed his face, I doubt they are pulling out. As someone said they have expanded a lot in a little time compared to the others.
Maybe they are going to get some decent equipment at last.....:)

how's the Lyon route doing? I believe it's doing quite well so could we see an upgrade on a few flights to a CRJ7

Also, Whoosh appear to be doing OK, not brilliant but they are getting a steady stream of punters although the ATR42 maybe a little too large for the route (possibly ideal for a Jetstream41?)

FC

FC

I hope the Lyon does upsize to a CR7 before the skiing season starts, as the CR2 really struggles with the amount of skis it can carry along with the luggage due to the small rear hold! The CR7 has the luxury of an under floor hold as well as the rear one.

last sundays bhx-lys had 31 pax

BHX-LYON - 2,943 pax In Sept 2007 (Air France's first month) which is 1% higher than BA carried in Sept 2006.

Which eqates to 31 pax per fight or 65%

BHX5DME

Great result! To see an increase on an already well established route for AF in their first month of operation is good news. Fares were not cheap either so yeilds should be good too. I also think that the flight didn't start until the 3rd?? so it maybe even more than a 1% increase. The way the flights are timed, there is room for another night stopping CRJ arriving late in BHX and departing early to LYS which would be more adventagous for BHX originating passengers and would allow for a business day in LYS.
Pity other carriers haven't taken on some of these BACON routes. I'm sure LH would make a better job of HAM, HAJ and STR than Flymaybe and still no TXL, ARN or VIE???
Daza

Lyon was very good considering the 5-6 month gap from when BACON
ceased. However it was averaging 39 in March but off course the SKI
season was still in swing (there was snow in Europe - just:rolleyes:).

Some other selective routes: -

Krakow 2186 - average pax 137 load factor 92%
Lisbon 4617 - average pax 136 load factor 91%
Barcelona 7661 - average pax 128 load factor 86%
Marseille 3226 - average pax 95 load factor 65%
Warsaw 4022 - average pax 118 load factor 79%
Galway 893 - average pax 34 load factor 44%
Waterford 1881 - average pax 38 load factor 57%
Toulouse 1545 - average pax 35 load factor 72%
Cologne 3750 - average pax 89 load factor 60
Dubai 32557 - average pax 271 load factor 77%
Newark 9745 - average pax 162 load factor 93%
Delhi 3272 - average pax 74 but transits I believe were good
Ashkhabad - 4991 average pax 147 about 77%
Islamabad 7107 - average pax 197 load factor 60%
Dundee 1605 average 18 or 39% based on 90 rotations

Pity that no other airline can make a 92% load factor work
(Krakow) as it has two months since its demise was known -
what a disappointment.

The PK ISB was up but still a low load factor (Ramadan affected it?)
Galway and Cologne are going and no surprises there unless Galway
reappears in summer.

Still a bit surprised that Toulouse is going even if they have wiped
about 2500 pax off per month. I have not posted Hamburg but it is
still struggling, Stuttgart perked up a little and so did laod factors on Dusseldorf. However I agree with Daza and I think other airlines would
do better.

Newark continues to frustrate, can't make money with two a day
or ten a week but they must be turning people away with constant
load factors of 90%. Again I trust it is the lack of business pax.

Dubai was up about 7000 and the evening EK38/37 is nearing capacity
on a regular basis with its connections to Aus, are you watching Qatar?

Pete

I have used the BHX-TLS route for many years with work, though not this year. It was always busy and I felt that two ER4/CRJ aircraft could have made it a business day return route. Maybe another for AF?
I worry about summer 2008 with Flybe at BHX. None of the former BACON routes are showing enough growth to warrant DH8-400 and certainly none of the routes have needed an EMB195. I feel we may see a further cull of routes from Flybe who, lets face it have never really developed BHX they seem to use it as a testing ground for routes, then move to where there is less competition such as NWI and SOU. Pity BMI didnt move in on those BA routes.
Daza

Couldn't agree with you more Daza. I have felt for a long time that Flybes main priorities lie at SOU and EXT and I also think that former BACON pax have deserted them in droves at BHX since the takeover, hence the reducing loads and credible worries for the future of a number of routes Summer 08. BA/BACON had a good reputation and on board product and their staff generally helpful and professional (not saying that BE are not before anyone jumps down my throat - like any airline they have good and bad days). I think BHX will see a reduced presence from BE as they expand and make the most of their strengths at both SOU and EXT. Trouble is for BHX who will step in - lets face it the airport has not exactly attracted a huge number of new routes or carriers over the past couple of years and whenever something new does start its introduction is nearly always tempered by the loss of an existing route. And the airport can simply not afford to lose any more routes while the likes of others on the doorstep carry on gaining.

Are the other airports 'on the doorstep' gaining trade due to the excellent communications from Brum to London/Manchester? Being around 80/120 miles from the major UK airports BHX was never going to be the big player that others are when you look at the catchment areas within about an hours drive.

When I lived in Marston Green then BHX was the first choice for a direct flight, where available, but a short train journey gave me much more choice. The southern catchment area (say 50 miles) are within easier reach of the London airports, while 50 north will probably choose MAN.

Birmingham is a victim of geography, too close to London to be the major UK entry point but too far from the north to be the second airport. With the local West Midlands population BHX will always be attractive to the charter airlines but less so to the legacy carriers who will always base long haul at London/Manchester and provide feeder flights between the two.

Maybe it is time for BHX to embrace the lo-co market in a bigger way. Sure there are arguments for and against but the surrounding population would use them and would not have to travel to EMA/LPL/STN etc.. The likes of FR and EZY would provide new destinations and passenger turnover. Busier terminals mean more revenue for the airport and will attract other airlines keen to tap into the 3 million plus that live within easy reach of BHX.

It may be simplistic but it is a business model that works. Look at STN, crap communications with all but London yet it thrives. BHX has to identify its true market and not try to compete with the big boys for the inter-continental work excepting the niche market it already has.

Sorry if I sound a bit downbeat. Birmingham deserves better than it has.

I agree with some of the comments raised here but would like to draw a few things to Daza and Gayfriendly's attention.

Flybe have always in the past introduced new routes to BHX and therefore feel that they do not put all their energy into EXT and SOU. If pax are not willing to use the services enough to allow them to be profitable, Flybe are not gonna keep them going if the aircraft could be used elsewhere.

I think Flybe have given BHX a fair chance.....the Croatian routes were a big gamble and opened up a new market. It worked and therefore, should, be back next year.

Alot of the routes to France are always summer only and indeed a number of French services are cut at EXT, SOU, LBA, EDI and other places.

ADC2604

I understand where you are coming from but I have monitored BHX
pax for the last 25 years and most routes that have come and gone
it has been easy to see why but that is not always the case with
flybe.

You say if pax don't use the routes, well other Galway and Shannon
in the winter this has not been the case with BHX.

I remember Bergamo operating with an average of 100 during one summer,
the Alicante, Faro, Malaga, Palma & Murcia with load factors of between
75 & 90% but the aircraft was moved to Norwich and look what happened.

There was no going back as Baby and Monarch had moved in, one of the
most unbelievable decisions I have ever seen at BHX.

Perpignan was another route with 75-90% load factors and it went.

It sounds as if there is a yield management problem if you are not making money with these load factors. I would have thought the logical thing to do was to put the fares up and try and make money and then pull the service if numbers drop. This did not happen in most of the above cases, the services just went.

I don't think anyone could argue if Galway does not come back but can
you explain Brest. Constantly operating with load factors below 50%
and reasonably low fares, yet this continues but Lyon was not taken
on from BACON despite load factors around 70-80%. Air France manage
a 65% load factor in the first month with lead in fares around £120+.

Pete

I have used the BHX-TLS route for many years with work, though not this year. It was always busy and I felt that two ER4/CRJ aircraft could have made it a business day return route. Maybe another for AF?

Is Toulouse a base for Air France partner Regional?

Obviously CPH will down for October due to the problems with the DH8D's & the many cancellations it caused. Hopefully retiming the flights next year will have a positive effect on these flights.

It's a shame SAS can't look at Stockholm with a B736 or Oslo with SAS Norway (ex Braathens) using a B735, the latter possibly a future destination for Norwegian?

FC

Anyone know what the ZRH figures were from Brum in September ?

Does anyone know the BE loads on there two BHX routes to Croatia?

I can't comment sadly on the routes you mention and the load factors stated, as this is not my area of 'expertise'.....however I am surprised at your observations.

The Spanish routes were withdrawn because of the mass competition on the routes (MON, WW, and the charters)

I guess we will just have to wait for the S08 schedule to be released. I won't lie I would love half of the routes ops BHX at EXT as it is my local but I do not think this will be the case.

I genuinely do not think that after putting so much financial investment into BHX post acquisition (move to Eurohub, lounge etc) that Flybe will forget about BHX.

five zero by ortac - Zurich

CAA Provisional stats Sept 11666 avg 65 pax 69% (based on 180 flights)

darren1 - Dubrovnik & Split

CAA Prov stats for Sep for Dubrovnik 2477pax , 95 avg or 81% load factor
CAA Prov stats for Sep for Split 1025 pax, 103 avg or 87% load factor

CAA Prov stats for Aug for Dubrovnik 2342, 90 pax or 76% load factor

CAA actual figures for Dubrovnik (July) 2217, 79 pax or 67% load factor

FC

Stockholm by SAS has been rumoured recently

ADC2604

The date that one flybe 733 aircraft was pulled was less than 6 months after BMI Baby opened their base and Monarch were not that well
established. I also believe it was about the time of MyTravellite
were in the process of closing down but I could be wrong on that one.

Pete

FCA are showing departures to CUN and MBJ for winter 08/09, are these routes covered already by TOM? Just wandering if they would be new FCA routes or shared routes due to merger?

WATABENCH

Could be wrong on this one but I am sure they were selling them for summer 2008 as well last week but they definitely were not when the brochure was first released (or should I say online holidays). They were definitely the same days as the TOM flights from what I remember unless I was dreaming ;)

As for winter 2008/9, I have not checked as I did not realise they had
been released but I will be checking.

A winter Sanford would be nice but can't have everything.

BTW enjoy your all info on the Bristol thread.

Pete

Thanks Pete, managed to find out that they are TOM flights and not extra FCA flights and that First Choice hols have a share on them, guessing we'll see a lot of this at various bases, I was wandering because there were no BRS FCA longhaul showing at the mo for winter 08/09 so didnt know if they had pulled them in favour of a BHX program, but i'm guessing that because of the B787 delay that they may not know what they're doing at BRS yet, as a good source said they may be one of the first bases behing LGW/MAN to get the 787, who knows hey?

WATABENCH

Cheers for the info.

I went on their site earlier but could find nothing :confused:

I am sure it was all there last week.

Going for a much needed sleep:zzz:

I don't suppose there is a Sanford for winter 2008/9?

BHX seems to swing in and out of favour with TOM & FCA just hope
all goes well once the 787's arrive.

Pete

Anybody know anything about the heli (looked like a Squirrel) which has been circling around BHX this morning?

I am at Land Rover over the road and it looked like it was circling for clearance to cross/land at approx 1100 and again at 1145? Or perhaps IR training? If I am lucky perhaps an ATC'er can tell me what the score is.

Looked like a civil one, as it was white with some green on it?

I have a couple of random questions as an EMA-er myself, but now a Birmingham native ...

Who is handling easyJet with their new ski routes for the winter? Also is it true that the Monarch contract is up for tender? What is aviance like at BHX?

finding_nema

Can't help you much as the people I know who have worked at these
companies have left.

Aviance from the outside always come across as the best of the bunch
(I think that statement will be contested :eek:) at BHX but to work for I can't give up any up to date info.

Servisair have handled Easyjet diverts in the past but have no idea about
the scheduled flights.

However Servisair (had a friend work for them) at BHX have seemed to have turned things around and I am sure EK would not stand for much
messing around or Ryanair for that matter.

Not heard the Monarch rumour or who has the TCX/MYT contract either.

Pete

Have just tried booking a flight with Norwegian to Warsaw for June but website says last flight end of March - thought was because summer schedules not loaded but Edinburgh-Oslo and all their London flights are on. Is this yet another route and airline gone?? I hope i'm wrong! Imagine, no flights from BHX to Poland at all with KRK now gone, yet these seem to be thriving from other airports (indeed along with flights from other UK airports to destinations all over Europe) :ugh:

The ZB tender was during the summer, can't remember the exact time. They will be staying with Swissport for the next couple of years, hopefully more.

On the possibility of lost routes.

The Skyeurope Bratislava is bookable from other UK points for summer 2008 but not BHX.

Thats looks like an impresive hat trick already

TUI Cologne
Norway Warsaw
Skyeurope Bratislava.

Add the other lost carriers this spring/summer.

I think that the airports paessenger predictions will have to revised again for the future.


Centre cities

Not convinced it is pulled yet as the summer schedule from the
Warsaw base seem far from complete with Munich, Birmingham
Orly and Copenhagen still to be released.

Loads were good up until the end of September but fares always look quite cheap though whenever I look on their site - Fingers crossed.

Pete

They are planning to launch new routes from BHX for winter 2008/9 to La Romana (Dominican Republic), Sal (Cape Verde) and Taba (Egypt). In addition they are also planning to operate weekly flights to Cancun, Goa and Montego Bay.:D

Really?? Where did you source this? Great news if it happens, will so a little way in making up for the ever shrinking choice of European flights available from BHX!!! Lets hope for some good news too from Baby when they announce their summer 08 schedule (10 based aircraft and five new routes, hmm and pigs might fly:))

GF

It is online now although I struggled to find the La Romana but did
notice a flight in Feb2009.

The destinations are brilliant but strange in one sense as there is as
need for 2 767's on certain days as GOA has moved to Monday afternoons
when there is one in Cancun.

Add Agadir on a Wednesday as well in November 2008, which is new.

Losses include the Saturday Alicante, Coventry is offered or the Tuesday flight. Tenerife goes from 4 to 3 as far as I can tell but 2 SSH's and 2 ACE but I assume they will be combined with the FCA aircraft.

If they would have added Banjul and Sanford it would be perfect.

Even the Sunday Malaga is still running!

As for Baby, should be at least 9 aircraft if not 10 and 5 new routes, that would be a disappointment, scope for much more. If BHX can't rely on them, then there is no hope.

Pete