People from abroad flying into BHX will rarely have sterling coins on them...just notes....they won't use one....

People with little luggage won't use a trolley.....

People who normally would but can wheel their cases won't use one....

fewer people will use them meaning fewer people will need to be employed to fetch and return them.......

Its not just about making money but saving money too on jobs....and on less trolleys needing repair/replacing.....

it looks bad on the surface but a lot of airports will be sure to follow this example.

and will people really avoid BHX just because of a £1 trolley charge.....will they flt to MAN in protest and spend £25 getting the train or coach and spending hours on the M6.....no they won't.

This scheme, although inconvenient, will do exactly what is wanted by the airport.

Envoy 320 - I agree with you insofar as an extra £1 charge will not in itself make people choose a different airport to fly into/out of but it all adds to the mix.

All I would add is that one poster has already stated he will fly into LHR next time from DXB; I'm off to EMA as I now live equal distance from BHX and EMA and one is as convenient geographically as the other. Being a brummie, I'd rather support what I still consider to be my local airport but silly additional charges like this just put me off, unless I'm taking hand luggage only. I just wonder how many other people in a similar position will feel the same.



Scott

I think the point, at least I was making, is that where as people would plump for BHX because it was easy to get through and the customer service was second to none, it is now becoming like all the others. So, it makes no difference to them where the flight is from. Previously they would have (route permitting) asked for BHX specifically even though it's dearer to fly from than some.
As one poster has already said, EMA, major competitor not too far away. Everyone in the Midlands lives at the hub of the Motorways so their choice is probably greater than most....
It's not about the pound/Euro (they take both apparently) It's about treating your customers properly. Where does it end?
As for the trolley collectors out of work....The trolleys don't have the incentive of a rebate on return. They still need the collectors (there are not that many of them).

As you say....trolleys still need to be collected.....

less people using trolleys = less trolley collectors = less salary to be paid out

no people using trolleys at all = no salaries to be paid out at all = no trolleys to be bought/repaired = zero cost.

if you think logically - it makes sense to charge for a trolley as it will save/make more money than it will lose by the odd person flying out of another airport such as EMA (major competitor?:ugh:)

Just watch other airports follow BHX example.......

BHX don't own the trolleys - the whole system is run by a company called ACS. They provide the staff and equipment.

It's a possibility that BHX charge ACS rent and ACS recoups it via the £1 charge- maybe somebody who knows can confirm this?


What happens when the contract comes up for renewal and ACS have made a loss? Does BHX suddenly become trolleyless?


On a related point, has anybody noticed the addition of a change machine in T1?




S78

why would ACS make a loss?? i don't understand that point at all.....

this time last year - they didn't charge a penny for their trolleys.....I assume that company makes a profit rather than a loss....

NOW...they charge £1 for their trolleys.....they make more money surely!

It's still bad customer service.....:p
But anyway.....Great news about the Government ditching Compulsory National ID cards!!!
Great fight by those at BHX who really believed the battle was worth fighting....
Something to celebrate in the aviation world for a change.....

Envoy,

This time last year ACS weren't providing the trolley 'service'.


Hope that makes things clearer:confused:



S78

I hope anyone who is against this 'rip-off too far' will take a minute to fill in the feedback form on the BHX website here: https://online.bhx.co.uk/bhxsecure/feedback.aspx?id=94

I did and I actually got a response from a human being and not a cut-and-paste fob-off. Credit to them for that.

GayFriendly - please paste in your post from here and let them know your feelings and the feelings of your fellow passengers. It is powerful stuff.

If we let organisations treat us like rubbish then we deserve all we get. Please take a moment to let them know what you think.

What if a supermarket charged you a non-refundable £1 to use their trolley for you to spend money in their building?

Let's get this nonsense stopped, eh?

Yes, but in your local supermarket you at least get your money back. And where I live, the £1 acts as a disincentive for the trolleys to end up off supermarket property.

Sorry, maybe I didn't word myself very well.
If you had to pay a £1 deposit for a trolley at the airport, it would be unfortunate but understandable. However, BHX charge you £1 for using a trolley, end of story. What if Sainsbury's did that? There would be an uproar.

Surely providing free baggage trolleys comes with the territory of running an airport? Didn't they realise this?

The hefty parking charges should cover the courtesy buses, and the not insignificant airport tax should allow you free use of a baggage trolley, surely?

Standards are only going one way, and it's not upwards.

I think this sort of devlopment tends to fall out of the the lo-co model. No longer do airlines want to pay to use airports. They expect airports to make a return from the increased passenger flows which result from the arrival of said lo-co airlines.

However passengers are tightening their belts & airlines are getting more creative at keeping the passengers out of the terminals. Internet check in & baggage pricing policies deter passengers from checking in baggage & to a certain extent from turning up early to shop in the terminals. As a result, the airports find they have to become more "ingenious" / "crafty" / enter a less polite term of your choice, at creating revenue streams of their own.

Charging for trollies (BHX is not the only one) & charging to use the drop off zone etc are some of the less popular ideas but no one loves most of a certain airlines ideas when they first get suggested (....pay to check in anyone???) It doesn't appear to deter them though.

I heard it all today, seems some people think the trolly is a bargin at a £1 and are taking them home with them :}

Whilst we talk about penny pinching, I assume the car park passes will be discounted for the staff car park now that no realistic bus service is provided??

I think the latest valuation is £7 to £8 each scrap value......:}:}

Lets face it BHX is out to make as much money as possible from all angles, some not very pleasent. EMA dont charge for trolleys, also they dont charge you a £1 to drop off or pick up.... You get minutes free.... BHX hide behind the terror threat to make the money which in my mind is disgraceful. I always supported my local airport but over the years I have found they are lousy in many departments all due to cost cutting... Flew in from Jersey and the flight was shorter than waiting for the bags to arrive on the carousel:*
So I now try and fly from EMA which actually treats you like a customer not some one to fleece... Manchester went from there to USA and was out of the airport with bags and driving home within 20 mins of wheels hitting terafirma...
So BHX and Mr Joe Kelly you can shove BHX where the sun dont shine:ok:

.
So BHX and Mr Joe Kelly you can shove BHX where the sun dont shine:ok:
It's Paul Kehoe not Joe Kelly!!!:rolleyes:

BHX charges

I for one am finding this BHX bashing tedious.

Any one of you enlightened types, who want everything for nothing, care to enlighten me on the back of a fag packet how the airport is ever going to raise funds for its planned large capital projects, including the runway extension?

I appreciate that the £1s from the trolleys won't go far, but its a start. Times are tight and the airport must maximise its revenue by any means possible.

We are still in a deep recession and so the actions BHX and others take may not be the ones they would choose in happier times. Only today we have seen a leading rail route effectively nationalised. The operator wanted the big profits, but baulked at the reality.

Somehow, I don't think a knight in shining armour will rescue any BHX projects. It is up to the owners, and management to be prudent in any financial dealings they are involved in.

I for one am finding this BHX bashing tedious.

how the airport is ever going to raise funds for its planned large capital projects

Of course, you are entitled to that view, but when we all end up paying for: trolleys, toilets, clear plastic bags for fluids, checking-in, buses to car parks, dropping passengers off, the shuttle link to the train station, just remember how pleasant travelling through BHX once was.

You may think that a measly 1 pound for a trolley is such a trivial matter but others can see where it is all going to end up.

Do you work at BHX? If so, maybe you'd be happy with a pound slot on the staff toilet cubicles? Every penny helps, eh?

It's not a case of wanting everything for nothing - it's a case of not being charged for everything!

BHX charges

I for one am finding this BHX bashing tedious.

Any one of you enlightened types, who want everything for nothing, care to enlighten me on the back of a fag packet how the airport is ever going to raise funds for its planned large capital projects, including the runway extension?

I appreciate that the £1s from the trolleys won't go far, but its a start. Times are tight and the airport must maximise its revenue by any means possible.

We are still in a deep recession and so the actions BHX and others take may not be the ones they would choose in happier times. Only today we have seen a leading rail route effectively nationalised. The operator wanted the big profits, but baulked at the reality.

Somehow, I don't think a knight in shining armour will rescue any BHX projects. It is up to the owners, and management to be prudent in any financial dealings they are involved in.
This is the Birmingham airport thread....So you'll have to put up with a bit of BHX bashing as you put it. Unless of course you do something wonderful, then you'll get praise for it...
Not nice to see how your decisions are received is it? Us enlightened types are perfectly entitled to view it as bad Customer Service. As you acknowledge the few quid will not go far....Treat the customers right and that will go further...
Will they give free trolleys after the recession?? No way,

"the airport must maximise its revenue by any means possible".....Well that gives you lots of scope then.....How about charging to use the escalator instead of the stairs? Lets car boot all the stuff security are confiscating...

I know that CS has gone west in the UK in general. It's a shame that aviation is sinking to the lowest common denominator.
I've no doubt others will follow and start charging for trolleys, however, that does not make it something to be proud of.....

I guess everyone is yearning for the old customer service that a plane ticket used to buy you. Sadly plane tickets are generally worth less than a train ticket now and the service levels are now at that level. Airports are merely a hub to get you to your destination these days. Brittish Rail do not provide anything for free. You turn up, get on a train, get off at the other end. Sadly this is now the same as airports but this is the sign of the convenience of air travel these days.

Call100 No I did mean Joe Kelly... BHXRWY33 re bashing BHX I think they deserve it, dont use the tightening of belts as an excuse, because if thats correct the end user will have to also tighten their belts and use other airports that are cheaper and care about the customer......:=
One other thing BHXRWY33 you may defend the airport and its money grabbing management but what happens when they start cutting staff and sadly if your one of them, I somehow think your tune will abruptly change!

Can we run a campaign to remove those terrible BMIBABY adverts on the monorail trains while we're at it? I'd make an exception, and pay a quid happily!

Did a couple of BHX/GRO legs last week and I cannot recall one PAX using a trolley from/to drop off car park-everyone was towing luggage.
If this is the norm then the capital expenditure on the new system will never be recovered.
Which bookeeper did the calcs to justify the capital expense and what utilisation figures did he use.
Not knocking BHX, just the bean counter who cannot count.

Regarding BHX bashing - along with most(?) others, its the bean counter who come up with these p1ss-poor suggestions we have a gripe with and not the staff who operate the facility. If BHX needs to raise funds for future capital works, for example I'd rather pay an additional £5 flat rate tax ontop of my ticket cost instead of feeling that I'm being stung by some Steptoe-esque airport management every time I want to engage with a facility of any description at BHX.

P.S. How come most other airports seem to operate/expand successfully (& it's not just BAA group) without charging for all the things that BHX has started to impose recently?

Lets get away from trolley talk and back onto aircraft - please !

Mahan Air returned to BHX this morning with A310 F-OJHH, lets hope the troubles in Iran dont put an early end to the service !

Emirates will operate the evening service with an A380 on 9 Sept 2009 to coinside with the opening of their new BHX business lounge.

BHX5DME

Mahan Air Today I hear the Fuellers have refused to fuel it and its just sitting there at BHX oh dear!!!:ugh::ugh:

Mahan Air are a lousy airline witha p!sspoor reputation, wasnt it their 310 that tried to land at Honiley beacon a while back. I would not fly with them and if I lived near the flight path I would make sure I was out shopping when that heap of junk took off:E

Only Exxon/Esso refused to refuel...As it's an American company it won't deal with anything Iranian!!??
They didn't have a contract for fuelling with the other two. Hopefully it's been resolved...They may not be an airline most want to fly with. They are another addition to the fold though!! Not a good start but maybe, just maybe, they might make more of success of it this time round...:}

There is still some sort of problem (don't know whether this is still anything to do with fuelling) with todays Mahan Air flight as it has been delayed since 11.30 this morning!

hope it works out ok with mahan air at bhx
0523 covman

hope it works out ok with mahan air at bhx
If not maybe they can operate from Cov:E
Joking apart its such a bloody shame that nothing operates from there anymore. I flew a few times from Cov and found the staff superb it may have been a bit cramped and lacking in facilities but that was more than made up by the way everything was done, maybe the Cov management could take over from the shiesters at BHX:ok:

My views expressed yesterday are purely personal. I have never worked in aviation, but have been an enthusiast for 48 years, and living locally have always tried to support BHX.

Over the years my support has included lobbying my MP and the Aviation Minister to lift restrictions re transatlantic services from non-gateway airports (in the early 90s), and more recently making a representation to Solihull MBC re the runway extension planning application.

Speaking of the runway extension does anyone have the current position regarding the project?

My views expressed yesterday are purely personal. I have never worked in aviation, but have been an enthusiast for 48 years, and living locally have always tried to support BHX.

Over the years my support has included lobbying my MP and the Aviation Minister to lift restrictions re transatlantic services from non-gateway airports (in the early 90s), and more recently making a representation to Solihull MBC re the runway extension planning application.

Speaking of the runway extension does anyone have the current position regarding the project?
Sorry, I re-read my post and it didn't read how I meant it to.....Anyway, Runway extension.
The position is that the legal niceties are being tied up on the agreed chapter 106 agreement. No difficulties envisaged there.
As for starting dates. Nothing is imminent. Major project and funding has to be secured first. Realistic date for anything to be operational probably 3 to 4 years away.
Nothing expected to be started for another 18 months or so. then 18 month to two year build.
Hope that helps...
:)

Anyone know what is currently happening?

Winter 2009/10 now shows the following not bookable: -

OPO
NYO
BLQ

All of these are bases and I understand that temp withdrawal
from the booking engine can mean time changes.

Also with LDY only four weekly and KTW two there is only
enough work for three based aircraft most days.

MOL said no growth but there was no mention of less
aircraft at BHX. Are new routes on the horizon to fill
the gaps or is this it for winter?

Pete

Is there any news on the Hellenic Imperial flights from Athens?

New date of 21st July been set, but still confirmation required from ATH.

Having won the Runway Extension battle it looks as if BHX wants to stir up the Greenies and Friends of the Earth all over again.
The Airport has launched a 16-week Consultation to ascertain the thoughts of the local residents on noise.
The consultation on the Noise Action Plan will finish at the end of October and 'it is hoped' that the final version will be launched early next year.
So the Airport Environmental Team hits the road once again.
A feeling of deja vu is creeping over me.
:)

1st August is the nearest date you can book on the Hellenic website....

If they will ever start?:confused:

Regarding the charges for trollys, I assume each airline pays a service charge to the airport, Some even list the charge on the ticket. One of the things included used to be the baggage system including bag carts. So its not really just a quid if you use one you actually pay twice!

Lots of pax checking in for this mornings Mahan Air flight http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/infopop/icons/icon7.gif- good luck to Mahan Air i hope it does well

Simon

I've noticed over the last few days and nights, that the Army is happy with security at the Elmdon side of BHX :eek:

Of course they are. Nice to see common sense prevail. So are the owners of the Twin jet. Oh, and Flybe and numerous private charters plus the Contract freighter etc. etc.
Shock, Horror!

Of course they are. Nice to see common sense prevail. So are the owners of the Twin jet. Oh, and Flybe and numerous private charters plus the Contract freighter etc. etc.
Shock, Horror!
But not the Police call 100...... Mind you its interesting to see that the RAF aircraft have an armed guard when they park up....Obviously they are "happy" with BHX's ability to provide adequate security:}
Oh and have you spoke to the owners of the ATR that is normally parked 100 yards from the burning helicopter??? I bet they were really happy that the fuel tank did not go up......

But we don,t want to start the security debate again, do you Call 100

Nice to see common sense prevail.

Trusting BHX with security = common sense ! :eek:

:ugh:

Trusting BHX with security = common sense

Yes it is looking like the blind leading the blind....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/volrider/the-blind-leading-the-blind-zoom.jpg

We know the airport seem oblivious to this maybe Call 100 is really Mr Lomax??

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/volrider/lomax_446x249.jpg

...or does call100 mean 'common sense' on BHXs part, in that they didn't tell anyone about the bloke that climbed over the wall last year, near to where they are all parked, and got onto the airfield across to the other side of 26/04. :rolleyes:

Security met guidelines then aswell I suppose, which would explain why nothing has changed and nobody needed to know! :suspect:

Good point but the real threat is someone taking a bit of aftershave through security check in a plastic bag that is not supplied by the airport, they then have to pay £1 for the BHX bag. Thank god Mr Joe Kelly and his team of misfits are on the ball I feel really safe now:E

Reported on the Monarch thread and confirmed by the booking engine
it appears Monarch are to start schedule routes to FUE & LPA this
winter.

FUE is showing on a Wednesday and LPA is in the drop down but an
error is shown when trying to book.

I think Wednesdays will show LCA, TFS & FUE which is a major improvement on a couple of years ago when all aircraft were
tucked up in bed during the winter.

Volrider

Surely the buck stops with PK? What is this obsession with JK, I know
he still works there but as CEO it has to ber PK's problem doesn't it?

Pete

Looks like the Army has common sense prevailing.

Just like a Westcountry Cream Tea ... :D

JK was and has been there longer than PK sadly the problems were there long before PK.....
Sadly someone has to be accountable ultimately thats management, JK is only concerned with profit and not the end user unless they happen to have money hanging from their pockets, hence the charges for parking, trolleys, plastic bags and goodness knows what next.....

Anyway enough of that, I would love to see Virgin at BHX was there or is there any chance of this happening, we have two US carriers here but no British long haul since the days of BA 757 to New York. It would be nice to see something going West rather than East for a change?

I would think not before the runway extension as B744 too big for routes and A340 300 with full load would not get off runway and I`m not sure you can handle an A340 600 at BHX because of dimensions

Ian B

Siloesid and Volrider........Gang up all you like....They are all still there on the Elmdon apron and Lima taxiway.....Not gone and left as you predicted.....
So your point was????????:rolleyes:

The point was Call 100 is that security is CRAP....sorry you cant work that one out, if I am wrong then how come a scallwag can cut a hole in the fence then wander not very quietly onto the airfield on a motorbike and burn a helicopter that was in view a few yards from a manned ICTS security checkpoint... I do not understand your argument on the security being good, or do we have to wait for another incursion and see another aircraft destroyed..... they all know its possible now...........

call100,

It's not a case of 'they are still there', it's a case of they are back! :rolleyes:

BHX hasn't a good record for 'incursions' on the Elmdon side, especially on Sunday nights/Monday mornings!!

Interesting to see what may be left in the morning, and I'm sure you know how that side of the airfield is manned at night ! :eek:

I understand if you guys are fed up about the security issue, but I wonder if you could clear something up for me?

In the late eighties I recall the police helicopter used to land on a moveable pad and was wheeled into a hangar at the end of the row of hangars on the Elmdon apron. It looks like a few of those hangars are gone now.

In recent times was the helicopter moved to a permanent area close to the 06/24 runway?

I wonder why that was? At watching the landing / moving process firsthand back then it seemed very quick and hasslefree.

Why were the few hangars knocked down? Had they fallen into disrepair?

Thanks.

The point was Call 100 is that security is CRAP....sorry you cant work that one out, if I am wrong then how come a scallwag can cut a hole in the fence then wander not very quietly onto the airfield on a motorbike and burn a helicopter that was in view a few yards from a manned ICTS security checkpoint... I do not understand your argument on the security being good, or do we have to wait for another incursion and see another aircraft destroyed..... they all know its possible now...........
You are getting yourself tied up in knots here...I never claimed security was good....I said it would always be decided on a risk/cost basis....You both seemed to think some would leave because of it. They have not and neither have they come back, they never left. Keep having a go if you want, perhaps you think you'll change something..If you do all well and good and power to you.

Keeprighton ( I like the title a good brummie fan) The helicopter I believe was moved when they had new offices rather than the old portacabins, the new offices are in the termianl and that landing pad was nearer.
Re the hangers well not sure what happened but as the expansion of the runway is planned then a hanger there would be right on the repositioned ILS and not useable.
Call 100 I agree that we all know security is not good but your hung up on cost, if this incident had happened to a FlyBe 195 or the Fedex ATR would cost be the implication then??? No I think that they would revise ALL security which sadly since the incident I don't think they have bothered to, which is the most annoying thing....I really hope this never happens again as there must be paperwork floating about that they cannot hide should a terrible incident take place.
They are lucky BHX as it has been quietly reported in the media, even stating it as Elmdon airport Sheldon, which we may know its the same place but joe public think its a microlight airfield or such...
Anyway thats my end line on this. Hopefully we can agree to dissagree:ok:

You both seemed to think some would leave because of it. They have not and neither have they come back, they never left.

Well mr Call100, for your information, one minute it was there, the next it was gone, then it was there again.

So once again you are misinformed, they did leave and have come back.



Besides, for your information...the word on the street is that the Police Helicopter was taken out simply because it was the first aircraft they came upon and the attack was not directly aimed at the helicopter as a Police vehicle. :eek:

Was amazed today driving down to the old terminal that they had blocked the bottom road of which goes past the cafe and to the front of the old terminal where the V.I.P. passengers get out of the cars to go in, It was totally blocked of with large concrete Blocks please tell me who this is going to stop. they would have been better putting the concrete blocks around the perimiter fence. Maybe Block the fence of to the right of the terminal under the old viewing balcony but Not The Whole Road. Was there any consultation with the likes of signature who handle alot of people threw there or was this just knee jerk reaction to the police helicopter attack!!! It Looks a Total eye sore:confused:

The blocks were planned a long time ago, well before the helicopter attack and yes they are an eyesore and yes there are weaker points to the fence etc.

was this just knee jerk reaction to the police helicopter attack!!!
How can it be a knee jerk reaction if the blocks were put in place weeks before the attack! :rolleyes:

It was totally blocked of with large concrete Blocks please tell me who this is going to stop.

It would stop the same people who did this BBC NEWS | UK | Scotland | Blazing car crashes into airport (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6257194.stm)

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/OeI0RwMdGno&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OeI0RwMdGno&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Would the Concrete Blocks be not better placed out side the passenger terminal:ugh::ugh::ugh: To stop the same sort of Attack that happened at GLA?

Why the FBO Main Entrance?

Have you been to the pax terminal??? try and drive a vehicle to the front....

Yes Volroider as u say its not good outside there to Fort Knox Springs to mind:)

Silsoesid Fully understand where you are comming from. just my opinion they are an eyesore and to me other than the concrete blocks at the right hand side of the terminal blocking the crash gate/Fence under the old balcony. I See No purpose for them blocking that road of. Im sure the cafe has seen a Downturn in business since they were put there and I Dont think it a nice sight for a V.I.P. Turning up and seeing Concrete Blocks All over Dont see them at LTN? Just my Thoughts and Opinion:)

As the subject of the arrangement at the front of T1/T2 has come up now...

Why don't BHX level off the old drop-off service road to be the same level/surface material as the adjacent pedestrian areas? It's permanently blocked off from any vehicle (emergency or otherwise) so it seems pointless to maintain this 'ghost' service road. Would be a decent plan turning a 'everyone inconvenienced/charged extra for so called airport security' into a 'increased pedestrian area/facility infront of terminal buildings'.

I believe it was the police that sorted the blocks out, BHX had no security interest whatsoever.

Well mr Call100, for your information, one minute it was there, the next it was gone, then it was there again.

So once again you are misinformed, they did leave and have come back.



Besides, for your information...the word on the street is that the Police Helicopter was taken out simply because it was the first aircraft they came upon and the attack was not directly aimed at the helicopter as a Police vehicle. :eek:

One minute it was there, the next it was there again??????????? Well of course...It's an airport...It's called flying away and coming back. If they left because of that incident why did they come back??? Assuming we all know who 'they' are.

Why would that information on the Police Helicopter be for my information?....I don't think anyone was questioning why it was attacked!!??
Where have the Police decided to move to by the way?

Call 100,
James May clearly based his regularly used phrase on you!

Anyhoo...
I don't think anyone was questioning why it was attacked!!??
Please read a previous post. :ugh:

Because it was thought to be so clear cut.
However, it seems that the helicopter was the closest aircraft on the dispersal to the break in point. If it was away for maintenance that night, FedEx would probably be talking to their insurers at this point!

SiloePlod....If your aunty had balls she'd be your uncle...........Lots of if's......:rolleyes:

But of course as long as you are happy with that then fine...........You really should move on. This obsession is not good for you.:)

Surely in these modern times an alternative to grey concrete blocks can be found? It is a bit like flying out of the Eastern Bloc at times.

I'm not knocking the airport on this one, but it's time to decide if the arrangements are permanent or not.

If the drop-off road is never going to see action again then can it be made secure AND pleasant on the eye? How about some gardens or greenery? (not like the few half-dead trees lining the drop-off car park!).

Again, it all contributes to a passenger's experience.

call100,
I am as much a plod as you have anything worth listening to.

Only one 'if' there old chap, please read other posts before a reply. :rolleyes:


kro74,
If BHX was concerned about aesthetics and customer satisfaction, I'm sure it would have been sorted by now. It hasn't, so what does that tell us?

One or two Union Flags on the top of the terminal buildings would make the place look nice too (as well as reminding passengers which country they have arrived in as it can be a little confusing at certain times of day).

call100,
I am as much a plod as you have anything worth listening to.

Only one 'if' there old chap, please read other posts before a reply. :rolleyes:
Ha! Ha! Bring it on. I don't suppose you have an answer to the question regarding the relocation of the Police helecopter unit do you?

I don't suppose you have an answer to the question regarding the relocation of the Police helecopter unit do you?

I have the answer....the helicopter wont be based at BHX:cool:

Hnh

MMMmmm. So you don't know either?.....OK. Thanks...:ok:

I don't suppose you have an answer to the question regarding the relocation of the Police helecopter unit do you?

Yes I do!
And when you learn to spell helicopter correctly, I might tell you !

I spelt it correctly sid....where is it?;)

hnh

HnH,

When you learn to abbreviate 'will not' correctly, I may also let you in on it!

:ok:

http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/bored2.gifhttp://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/sleepy2.gif

Call 100 Is It Comeing To Cvt
0523 Covman

0523 cov man

Hopefully it will take the bickering plod from this thread with it!

ATNotts

Perhaps the degree of upset indicates that while waiting for a replacement chopper they've had to sit around all day polishing their truncheons. ;)

Looking at the gyrocopter debacle, what exactly is the remit of the plods on (the whole) site at BHX? Do they actually do anything semi-useful apart from traffic control?

I wondered when the old plod bashing would take place... well guys just remember this. The sh*ts that took out the helicopter, be it that was their target or any aircraft that happened to be sitting there... call 100 seems to be one sighted on this...
That aircraft does not only chase the bad guys but as I have been informed by those that know.. It has been used on many instances when granny or grandpa have wandered off and have been located when they would have perished before being located by officers on the ground, then there are the times when the air ambo is either busy or not flying (they do not fly in the hours of darkness) that the police helicopter then reverts to a medi-vac role and lifts injured and life threatening case to hospital from the scene of accidents. I wonder how many lives this has cost while you lot moan about what plod does while his "toy" is bust??
I know a few who work at the helicopter and I can tell you they are working their nuts off driving to other bases so they can carry on doing their unsung work to cover the West Mids as best as possible using other air units helicopters, I wonder if they know they are appreciated so much, whilst they work through the night so the plod bashers can sleep easy...
As for relocating at BHX when they get their replacement (soon) They will move to somewhere that can provide security or at least do not hinder what security the Police wish to provide for themselves.

Call 100 your arguments at best are tedious and ill informed, you work off speculation and consider your view point the correct and only one.
I am sorry for those that think this BHX thread has been taken over by folk discussing G-WMAO and stopped chat about Air Mahon etc, but its a free forum and lets face it and maybe you can answer this Call 100...... What other major international airport in the uk, no Europe, has had a major incursion where an aircraft has been attacked and destroyed by fire???

Ummm interesting point that seems to pass most by....

Well Call 100 I hang on a thread for your next words of sublime expertise on this, I am sure I will like others be rivetted to my seat in anticipation of your words of wisdom....:E

My point, although perhaps not put clearly, is what exactly do the on-site/dedicated police force do with regard to boundary security at BHX? Surely they have some responsibility for the security of their own aerial transport plus that of other operators? It is trespass plus criminal damage after all.
I seem to remember an idiot got over the boundary fence at LHR last year, onto an active runway, and caused chaos, plus Greenpeace got onto a 777 and draped the thing with banners (could say it was an aircraft attack, albeit without the fire!). Just shows that it's hard to secure any airfield completely.

I would say Greenpeace are a nuicance threat no more, they do not damage, but act illegally, entering an airport with the intention to destroy an aircraft by fire with no regard for those that may be in it or near it should a large explosion happen is more of a worry.....
Re Police and security, the main perimeter and airfield security is done by ICTS appointed by the airport on a "who is cheapest" option they are responsible for full security with police back up should it be required.
If the police did the security it would cost a lot more from the airports coffers but it would be better, ok nothing is 100% but as the saying goes...buy cheap pay twice.... The airport will argue they meet minimum securtiy standards as laid down by law. They do... It just shows how poor those standards are:ugh:

Volrider,

Factually there have been incursions that I can recall at Stansted, Heathrow and Manchester during daylight hours, granted there was no damage to aircraft but that's hardly the point, if someone wants to break in somewhere they can and will, I'm not privy to the exact security set up at the airport so I'm not going to pass comment or judgement but to infer that this is a BHX only issue is well wide of the mark imo.

there have been incursions that I can recall at Stansted, Heathrow and Manchester during daylight hours, granted there was no damage to aircraft but that's hardly the point, if someone wants to break in somewhere they can and will, I'm not privy to the exact security set up at the airport so I'm not going to pass comment or judgement but to infer that this is a BHX only issue is well wide of the mark imo

Factually none of those incursions resulted in destruction of an aircraft...I would say THATS A HUGE POINT..

BHX are the only airport to lose an aircraft in such circumstances, when other airports fail as well to look after the aircraft they will also be under scrutiny. So in my honest opinion BHX do have questions to answer, but they will reply " we meet minimum security requirements" I refer to my previous post.
Untill those requirements are improved BHX and other airports will continue as they are.

I know a few who work at the helicopter and I can tell you they are working their nuts off driving to other bases so they can carry on doing their unsung work to cover the West Mids as best as possible using other air units helicopters, I wonder if they know they are appreciated so much, whilst they work through the night so the plod bashers can sleep easy...

For the benefit of any of the plod bashers reading this .... why don't you check this out :

Birmingham Mail - News - Top Stories - Car jackers arrested after stealing car at gunpoint in Pype Hayes (http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top-stories//tm_headline=car-jackers-arrested-after-stealing-car-at-gunpoint-in-pype-hayes&method=full&objectid=24104519&siteid=97319-name_page.html)

.... Such a vicious crime could happen to just about anyone these days :eek:

Vol - I wouldn't call it "unsung", I'd call it another example of the Excellent work of the Air Support Unit :D

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d129/coconut11/Coconutty.jpg

I can't imagine there is anyone who doesn't support the excellent work the Police Helicopter team do for the community. We also know very well how much of a difference they have made in aircraft incidents over the years because they happen to be based at BHX and were available. It would be a terrible day if they moved and I hope those who have the authority to do whatever it needs to ensure the police helicopter stays and stays safely are getting on with it right now.

I recall a nut set a midland 145 alight at GLA a few years back all be it only causing minor damage.

ABZ had a drunk climb a fence and go to sleep in the back of a king air a while back. Funny it may be but lets face it people break into and out of prisons nothings imposiible! All we can do is assist the security services by doing our bit and keeping our eyes open! I recall at MAN there was a pilot scheme to provide spotters with an emergency call box in the popular spotting areas. Strange I grant you but lets face it there is almost always someone there and I for one would welcome them calling airfield police to report irregularities.

'Factually none of those incursions resulted in destruction of an aircraft...I would say THATS A HUGE POINT..

BHX are the only airport to lose an aircraft in such circumstances, when other airports fail as well to look after the aircraft they will also be under scrutiny. So in my honest opinion BHX do have questions to answer, but they will reply " we meet minimum security requirements" I refer to my previous post.
Untill those requirements are improved BHX and other airports will continue as they are.'

Volrider,

Your missing my point a little, an incursion of an international airport is always serious, howevr we've had mass incursions at Heathrow, Stansted and Manchester in daylight hours when in theory security should be at its maximum. What we're talking about here is a night time incursion to a near deserted part of an airport by presumably 1 or maybe 2 people in the dark. I would suggest a daylight mass incursion is far more significant in terms or risk and potential outcome then the incursion at BHX.

I'm sure that the crews, who until recently flew WMAO, appreciate the comments from the likes of call100 when they are landing in fields at 4am to save yet another life.

I'm convinced that those who are still alive because of the police helicopter being there for them in their time of need, are a bit more appreciative than some here!

If it was an air ambulance that was destroyed (don't forget, they don't operate in the dark), there would be nothing but condemnation, but because WMAO had 'Police' painted on her side, it's considered 'fair game' to have a bash and a laugh.

To the person at the time, and you know who you are, who sat in their 4x4 on the dispersal and said "Oh dear, you've lost your little toy then", before driving away,... please drive carefully!

Big picture guys and gals !

Didn't a TV crew breach MAN airport security as supposed cleaners and get on board an aircraft, perhaps LHR also, the fact that they didn't 'torch' the aircraft is of insignificance, regardless of what took place at BHX a breaching of airport security perimeters is an all too regular occurrence such as those nutters at STN a year (ish) ago.

Shame on you all that celebrate November 5th, which other nutters would celebrate such a terrorist occurrence or is it only such occurrences in Brum that are to be frowned upon?

Well sid and Vol, your determination to single out myself seems to have made your argument stray. Sid. I don't recall making any comments against the work of the Police helicopter. You and Vol have miised the point entirely. Niether of you have actually made any sense. I have not claimed that security is perfect. I have not claimed it was not a major breech that should not have taken place.
I have said that no one was going to move because of it. I also said that the cost v risk evaluation would take precedence over your idealistic fort Knox scenario. The airport is a business going through a tough time. It's not going to throw money at the situation. The fence is a deterrent, not a barrier. It's the same type of fence as all other airports. This is not just a BHX situation. You seem to think that because the people responsible torched the aircraft at BHX the breech itself is different. It isn't they all have potentially the same outcome.
Obviously you have both decided that the personal attack adds strength to your points. That's fine, but it only makes you feel better, not look better.
Where was it the Police are moving to?

Call 118
I assume you dont understand fully the situation and continue to defend the airport, would that be a biased view i.e. you work there? If thats the case your loyalty is commendable if somewhat distorted, but hey, you believe what you wish. Don't let the truth change your viewpoint:ok:

Just a quick one, and nothing to do with the airport...

Phileas Fogg, the reason we celebrate November 5th in England is that a terrorist plot was foiled. We don't celebrate the plotter Guy Fawkes (though a lot of people think he was framed etc...) we burn him.

Call 118
I assume you dont understand fully the situation and continue to defend the airport, would that be a biased view i.e. you work there? If thats the case your loyalty is commendable if somewhat distorted, but hey, you believe what you wish. Don't let the truth change your viewpoint:ok:

You are still missing the point. You still believe it's just a BHX problem and that I don't understand the gravity of the incident. Wrong on both accounts. I do, however, have more of a grip on the reality of what the reaction has been. Regardless of what would be the ideal and perfect solution, should such exist, only two things will dictate, legislation and cost. That is where we are, the airport meets regulation, as for cost..........current economic climate etc. It may not be what you or I want, but, it's where we are.....

Riveting as it is, can't you guys just take this "discussion" (I use the word lightly as only one person seems to have any idea whats going on....) down the pub, if you're going to have to agree to disagree you will feel a whole lot better about it after a few pints than ranting and bitching on here - or else just start a new thread about BHX Security, there are for sure enough posts to fill more than a few pages.......:ok:

Flights for 2010 now loaded - 5 per week

Good News

BHX5DME

call 118-118 agreed we are at an impass as they say so will agree to differ I am sorry GayFriendly that the discussion has stopped chat about other things as you see it, I thought a thread called BIRMINGHAM under airports was about BHX and not just "look whats landed tonight" maybe you should consider such posts would be better put in the "spotters" forum and the BIRMINGHAM thread left to talk about issues at BHX ?

Great news about the PHL service continuing next year. I was amazed when it was announced in these uncertain economic times. Loads have been good and importantly good upfront so lets hope both business and leisure travelers continue to use the service.
Daza

GF. Apologies. You are correct. Finished with that one.
Daza. Yes, good news in a gloomy world. Proves that BHX still has lots of potential. Hopefully the new pier will tempt some more quality airlines. IMO it's not the prettiest building, but, the interior is excellent. Apparently the standard of all future refits.

Volrider

Surprisingly, and compared with some other threads on AA+R, the BHX one is somewhat less "spotterish" than many.

Curiously, the spotter fraternity, down upon which you clearly look, are your eyes and ears around the airport perimeter. They are more likely, probably than police to spot unusual goings on since they spend a deal more time loitering there than the police do. CCTV is all well and good but you can't beat the mark one eyeball and human brain acting in close harmony.

Shame they didn't spot the cretins that burnt the chopper.

Curiously, the spotter fraternity, down upon which you clearly look
Quite wrong actually and I did not state that, I am for spotters or what ever the political correct term is... In fact when I was young I spent many a happy hour armed with my binos and ian allens aircraft reg book at as many airports I could get to.
Its a shame that my comment was taken in the wrong context. I agree and I know that the police use the eyes and ears of these folk and for good reason, lets face it someone who visits a certain location knows it well and would be the first to see soemthing wrong. :ok:
Am I forgiven;)

Loads have been good and importantly good upfront so lets hope both business and leisure travelers continue to use the service

Hear hear! Mind you, the forward bookings for this year are such that I'm finding difficulty in getting tickets on this service for late Aug/Sept on the dates that I want to travel. On the back of this I reckon that they could get away with a seven day service as originally planned. Must say that I was gutted when the WW Lisbon service ended from BHX so decided to try PHL and tootle around PA again before I'm nailed down in my box :).
How WW could completely drop a five times a week service that on the face of it wasn't doing too badly and was building solidly (dunno about yields though!) on the many times that I used it and now only go from MAN twice weekly I'll never understand.

And the anniversary of BHX also, 70 yrs i think

And the anniversary of BHX also, 70 yrs i think


...and the 40th anniversary of PIRA.

...and the 20th anniversary of Al-Qaeda.

...and 38th anniversary of Greenpeace. (A380!)

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Wed 09sep09 Birmingham /dubai *ek
Free Chauffeur Drive For Ek F/j Pax-see Ek Pages In Yr Gds
1 Bhx Dxb 1415#0015 Ek 40 Pc Ac J7 C7 Ic Y9 O9 E9 R9 W9#388b*e
2 Bhx Dxb 2120#0720 Ek 38 J7 C7 Ic Y9 O9 E9 R9 W9 M9 B9#77wb*e



Wed 09sep09 Dubai /birmingham *ek
Free Chauffeur Drive For Ek F/j Pax-see Ek Pages In Yr Gds
1 Dxb Bhx 0805 1235 Ek 39 Pc Ac J7 C7 Ic Y9 O9 E9 R9 W9#388b*e
2 Dxb Bhx 1455 1940 Ek 37 J7 C7 I7 Y9 O9 E9 R9 W9 M9 B9#77wb*e

Does EK use F fitted a/c to BHX? They certainly don't from any other UK airport outside of London

My understanding is that the evening EK is a 3 class 777, but the F class seats are not sold as F.

So they sell them as J seats? If so, how do they decide who gets the F seats? Is it done by frequent flyer etc.?

They are sold as J seats, don't know what the criteria is for the upgrade.

Evening AC would operate 54J instead of 12F/42J, JC service offered in FCL class if cabin is used and would be sold as JC seats. FCL cabin would only be used if the JC pax exceeds 42. Upgrades would be done on criteria e.g. skywards class

Which stands at BHX will be A380 capable? I'm assuming 41 & 42, any more?

Looks like the car parts flights for Jaguar LandRover group are now using BHX instead of CVT.



S78

I recall a few years ago that BHX had regular flights with the Jaguar engines coming from the USA but think they went to EMA, these new flights for car parts, where are they flying from and are they using the Elmdon terminal?

This morning's flight arrived from KTW, parking on the Elmdon apron.



S78

Seem to remember Atlas Air 747's coming in from USA a few years ago and parking up on the Elmdon apron, I think they were to do with Jaguar parts???

Without checking should be the new 54 which is located at the end of the new pier with the double bridge ?

Just checked Emirates website and the A380 is now showing in the schedule for 9th September. Of interest, it is showing First Business Suites available on these flights. I was under the impression that they were going to keep it to the normal 777 load just in case which would be just J/Y.

Without checking should be the new 54 which is located at the end of the new pier with the double bridge ?
Most likely as that will be the preferred stand for the Emirates scheduled flights. Nearest to the new Emirates lounge. It will also cause the least disruption there...

S78 JLR WENT FROM EMA NOT CVT:ugh:
0523 COVMAN

Not a bad figure but slightly disappointing that it dropped below
900000.

June 898382 -3.7%. Source CAA

Compares well to some but I feel July will not be so good.

Pete

Covman,


Arcus Air are working the JLR car parts flights and used to go into CVT, now the contract has changed and they are now flying into BHX.

These flights are inbound carrying parts.

Sometimes I wonder if you actually work at CVT as you don't appear to know whats going on........



S78

I was led to believe that the new emirates lounge was facing the current Stand 40? Which makes it the furthest to 54.

I stand to be corrected though.

Nope Your are correct. My mistake....I've only done the one quick tour inside. I still believe 54 has been chosen as the stand allocation for EK and PK, I'll double check it. Mind you as with all Stand allocation it could possibly change nearer the time....

On another note...The end of an era is in sight..Apron control is moving from the Apron Control Tower at the end of this week (Poss Thursday)...:sad:Sad day, a lot of memories for a lot of people who served up there....I don't think the stairs will be missed though.:)

Call 100 !

LOL a lot of memories up there ! It was like home from home even a make shift dumb waiter - clearly staff rushed off there feet planning stands its the life of luxury up there, we all know that!

TTFN

No arguments from me there.....All those that didn't like the cold opted to work up there when it went 'Professional' The makeshift dumb waiter was always known as the 'technology bag'. It was so efficient I think it was only changed once when the original wore out!! Handy for the News paper delivery..:)

Where is Apron Control re-locating to?

Temporarily into a room in the Engineering block near the Fire Station. Staying there until the dreaded combined control room is established...

Took the tour yesterday. The new pier is actually really nice. Open and airy, and nothing like the rest of the airport. You can actually feel the difference as you walk in. One dissapointment though was the EK lounge. Was always under the impression that the EK lounge would be so that J class pax could board directly from the lounge to the aircraft but this isnt the case. Would have been so much better for them if it was.

Had my tour a couple of days ago, all looks very nice until I started looking at the join between the wood and tile floors. You would have thought that after spending £45million on it they would have finished it off properly, don't think it will be long before the passengers start catching the peaks and damaging it. Still a few days to fix it though:ok:

BHX86, my mom had a tour of it this week too and she said exactly the same thing as you.

call100,

Any truth in the rumour of a 'visitor' to the Airbus on 'L' (old 06 threshold) earlier this morning?

I haven't been there today sorry. Made a quick call and no one knows anything about it. I'll check again tomorrow for you.

Any truth in the rumour of a 'visitor' to the Airbus on 'L' (old 06 threshold) earlier this morning

I hope that it was not the same visitor that "visited" the police helicopter that was near that location?? :confused:

Legalize, whatever happened to that rumour you started about a GHA "going under" last week at BHX, it seems that all 3 are still merrily plodding along :confused:

I hope that it was not the same visitor that "visited" the police helicopter that was near that location?? :confused:
:rolleyes::rolleyes:
http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/yawn3.gifhttp://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/yawn2.gif

Superjumbo flight to Birmingham Airport

17.07.09

An Emirates’ A380 super-jumbo is to make a flight from Dubai to Birmingham Airport in September. The plane will serve the route for just for a single day – September 9 – as part of the Birmingham Airport’s 70th anniversary celebrations.
The giant double decker aircraft will be used on one of Emirates’ two daily services from the United Arab Emirates (UAE) to Birmingham, giving passengers the first chance to fly directly to and from Birmingham on the A380. President Emirates Airline Tim Clark said: ‘Emirates and Birmingham Airport have enjoyed a successful partnership since we started services in 2000, and it’s fitting that we should mark this significant milestone in the airport’s history by flying in our most talked about aircraft.'
Birmingham Airport’s deputy chief executive officer Joe Kelly said: ‘Our 70th anniversary is a fantastic milestone for the airport and we are delighted that Emirates is helping us celebrate our birthday with the A380. This is the first commercial flight of an A380 outside of London Heathrow in Britain. As well as our 70th anniversary, September 9, is also the date that our new £45 million International Pier opens with state of the art facilities and it is therefore very fitting that the first aircraft will be the Emirates A380.’

Nice to see it officially confirmed. There were still some doubters out there...

I hope that it was not the same visitor that "visited" the police helicopter that was near that location?? http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/confused.gif

I doubt it unless he bought a new motorbike as he set fire to his old one:p

call 118 118 I did post replying to your inane immature post re my civil and honest question, but for some reason it did not appear. maybe it was moderated ...lets see if you get this one:E

Credits - CAA for the passenger figure and acarsd for the number
of rotations (plus my own records in some cases).

The first figure is pax per flight and the second is the load factor. I have added some of the monthly passenger figures as reported by the CAA.

Billund/109 pax/57% -
Copenhagen/77 pax/75-78% - 6656 down from 7700
Bergerac/49 pax/62%
Biarritz/137 pax/73%
Brest/45 pax/57%
La Rochelle/39 pax/50%
Lyon/24 pax/50% (48 seats or is it 50?) - 2232 down from 2904
Marseille/127 pax/67%
Nice/107 pax/77%
Paris CDG/57 pax/64% - 27572 down from 29767
Perpignan/145 pax/77%
Poitiers/134 pax/71%
Toulouse/42 pax/53%
Dusseldorf/35 pax/57% - 12383 down from 13885
Frankfurt/60 pax/61% - 20290 down from 21110
Hahn/107 pax/57%
Hamburg/42 pax/54%
Hanover/52 pax/67%
Munich/59 pax/72% - 8978 down from 9999
Niederrheim/128 pax/68%
Stuttgart/29 pax/37% - 2806 down from 4192
Cork/150 pax/86%
Dublin/134 pax/68% - 44642 down from 48642
Knock/86 pax/62% - 4314 down from 5663
Waterford/31 pax/47%
Shannon/129 pax/68%
Bologna/138 pax/73%
Milan/47 pax/41% - 2796 down from 3197
Olbia/117 pax 62%
Pisa/121 pax/64%
Trapani/140 pax/74%
Trieste/126 pax/67%
Amsterdam/85 pax/65% - 32641 down from 42183 (one less KL a day)
Faro/159 pax/82%
Oporto/152 pax/80%
Alicante/161 pax/86% - 26102 up from 20493
Almeria/181/85%
Barcelona/3999/79%
Girona/154 pax/81%
Ibiza/165 pax/77%
Mahon/172 pax/80%
Malaga/166 pax/89% - 29578 up from 23500
Murcia/160/85%
Palma/155 pax/85% - 23882 up from 19669
Reus/151 pax/80%
Arrecife/182 pax/85%
Tenerife/192 pax/90%
Gothenberg/28/70-75%
Stockholm NYO/149 pax/75%
Oslo Torp/114 pax/60%
Zurich/71 pax/71% - 12416 up from 11523
Istanbul/72 pax/45% ish?
Prague/121 pax/74%
Kaunas/155 pax/82%
Bydgoszcz/166 pax/88%
Gdansk/163 pax/86%
Katowice/137 pax/73%
Krakow/139 pax/74%
Rzesnow/163 pax/86%
Bratislava/147 pax/78%
Ashkhabad/115 pax/60%
Dubai/283 pax/74% - 34006 up from 29134
Islamabad/295 pax/75% ish 7668 down from 7862
Newwark/144 pax/82% - 8658 down from 9193
Phillidelphia/134 pax/76%.

Pete

call 118 118 I did post replying to your inane immature post re my civil and honest question, but for some reason it did not appear. maybe it was moderated ...lets see if you get this one:E
I take it that was aimed at me as you got the name wrong!!?? Must try harder!..
If you insist on trolling then you have to accept the consequences......Get a grip and move on, you'll make yourself ill.
I'm sure everyone else is getting just as bored with your obsession now...:)
:rolleyes:

Pete...Thanks for the break down....Beginning to suffer now, although not as bad as most......

call 100 it was play on the name...sorry if that went over your head... re my question which was a valid one I was hoping for a responsible answer but once again you seem intent on rubbishing anything I say on the matter, I had not dragged the matter of the helicopter being destroyed up again for no reason it was reading about the "visitor" that made me think.
I can only assume you work for the airport as your standpoint is similar to theirs on this issue. If you wish to discuss this further and not disturb the board maybe you can PM me.

Can you both stop now please. Just take it to PM.

No thanks....:) I already thought it was done and dusted....Onward and upward!!:ok:

Olton Pete's - Analysis for June does not make very good reading. No wonder the Airport company are in no hurry to list the pax figures on the main Airport site -On the bright side good to see Dubai up and the service to Istambul carring something possibly like an ecomomic load (My guess - others better informed will jump on me). Yes I know you cannot read too much into the bald statistics and you have to allow for cargo etc and its yeald that matters.- I wonder how other regional airports are holding up ? - Sorry to be so negative, but with the impending deleterious effects of "Swine Flu" to be factored into future demand, we may see cuts in schedules fron the regions in the UK in the short/medium term and thats bad for everyone. - For once, I hope I'm very wrong as people's jobs depend on demand. Thanks to OP for the stats

CAT III (An infrequent traveller)

CATIII-NDB

As you say without any accurate yield figures they are only a guide.

I have not checked any other airports for individual route analysis other
than the odd long-haul from Manchester/Glasgow etc

The only thing I would say about the BHX figures is that you can see
the reason for some of the frequency cuts such as KLM Amsterdam,
flybe Stuttgart and Milan.

I checked a few September flights and at present there are few cuts
although August shows a much reduced flybe schedule which is
understanable considering the routes they operate.

The Emirates figure is good but I did check fares at times during
May & June and they were competative to say the least.

The Ryanair figures seem okay but they are a totally impossible airline to second guess re profitable or loss making routes. Their winter schedule
is very sparse at present and it will be interesting to see what happens.

Turkish is 321 again today, hopefully a sign that loads have picked up.

Pete

Olton Pete, thank you for the reply. For me and others who are interested - where on the CAA Statistics site do you get your data from ?

I have tried without success to access the data. Are the figs available to the general public or is access restricted.

CAT III

On the bright side good to see Dubai up

Not surprising, especially when EK seem to have overbooked every single bloody flight, which means headaches for Travel Agents, as we are always the first port of call for passengers connecting onwards to PEW, ISB, LHE & KHI, complaining we have given them dud tickets, I had one group of 11 passengers who were all denied boarding and given free tickets as well as carried on other flights, surely EK cannot be doing that for long without making losses.

I say its all down to this STUPID farelogix booking system that has been instroduced, it is a right pain in the A**.

One a different point, what is the latest with Hellenic Imperial, we had a meeting with them this saturday, and the UK Director seems pretty sure the first flight is due to depart the 25th July 2009, he is offering Blocks of seats to agents for the Hajj Season. I did mention that pprune was stating otherwise, and that a 747 was OTT for the BHX-ATH route, but he was insisting the flights will be full.

Any views would be appreciated.

Should operate a flight this Saturday - shortly to be confirmed.

Kazamb were you visited by a Travel Agent claiming to be the UK Director or by an Hellenic UK employee, be careful! :}

Kazamb were you visited by a Travel Agent claiming to be the UK Director or by an Hellenic UK employee, be careful!


I have grave doubts about any airline director randomly visiting Travel Agenst and claiming they can fill a 747 on BHX-ATH.......lets hope Hellenic can survive on the route long enough before (as they have previously said) change a/c type to a 737 :)

The airline'''Director''' is in fact a travel agent trying to put together some UMRAH business for the airline.

Kazamb

Why would you mention a web-site forum in your
discussions ?

I smell a rat!

MM

I did it to see his response and how he would react when confronted about the cancellation of the slots and route. I did mention that it would be wiser to feed traffic into athens on a smaller craft and then transfer onto the 747 as long as you have other traffic feeding in from other airports, otherwise it would be uneconomical.

His card states UK director as do his email sign offs. Suffice to say, none of the Hajj groups are showing an interest in touching the airline.

Kazamb we have also had this - if you look closely he is the Director of Hellenic Travels a agency set up to be an agent for the carrier.

On a different note my contact at BHX tell me they are to issue a press release about this service which will include the details of an actual Hellenic office in the UK operated by Hellenic staff!

Perhaps the Hadj agents will view it much differently then ?

Re Hellenic
2 staff now on board and the airline has secured an office at Concorde House BHX

Press release out tomorrow

Remember there were Press Releases for Bilga Air, Akal Air/Air Sylhet and much longer ago FlyBlu.......:bored::bored::bored:. A Press Release from BHX does not mean the flight will actually take off, much as I hope it actually does........

Didnt Air Sylhet manage 2 flights.

Centre cities

June Passenger Figures

21 July 2009

During June, Birmingham International Airport handled 898,608 travellers through its two terminals, including 645,759 scheduled passengers and 252,849 charter passengers.
Paul Kehoe, Birmingham Airport’s Chief Executive Officer, explains: “June’s figures, which represent a 4.1% fall, again underline the tough conditions we find ourselves operating under. Despite moving into what is peak season we continue to see traffic down on the same period last year, in line with the vast majority of airports, not just in the UK but around Europe.
“However, despite these tough times the Airport continues to discuss a range of opportunities with prospective partners as Birmingham clearly remains an Airport with a reputation for offering choice and value for money for local business and leisure travellers.”
During June significant growth was achieved on scheduled flights to destinations such as Reus (+181.2%), Torp (+161.9%), Poitiers (+129.4%), Newquay (+125.8%), Arrecife (+116.1%), Rzeszow (+111.3%), Billund (+104.8%), Larnaca (+92.1%), Krakow (+74.5%), Prague (+36.6%), Tenerife (+34.3%), Ibiza (+27.6%), Alicante (+26.9%), Malaga (+25.9%), Hanover (+22.1%), Palma (+20.5%) and Mahon (+19.3%), Dubai (+16.7%), Inverness (+8.7%) and Zurich (+7.8%).
Charter traffic which experienced growth included Egypt (+47.9%), Turkey (+22.4%), Croatia (+18.5%) and Malta (+12.6%).
Scheduled traffic accounted for 71.9% of the total passenger traffic in June whilst charter passengers made up the remaining 28.1%.

New Jumbo Jet Flights To Athens And Onward To Jeddah Announced From Birmingham

22 July 2009

Hellenic Imperial Airways and Birmingham International Airport are pleased to announce that from Saturday 25th July a new weekly service will begin between Birmingham and Athens, with onward connections to Jeddah in Saudi Arabia. This new weekly service is hoped to increase to a twice weekly service in August, subject to demand.
The Greek registered scheduled airline will operate a Boeing 747-200 aircraft with 450 seats. It will arrive into Birmingham on Saturdays at 19:00 and depart back to Athens and Jeddah at 22:00. On Mondays, the airline will arrive into Birmingham at 17:00, departing back to Athens and Jeddah at 22:00 the following day.
The Chairman of Hellenic Imperial Airways, Talal Abureyal, said “Birmingham is our first UK airport and we are very excited about launching services in the Midlands. Athens, which is our HQ, is not currently served from Birmingham so we expect that our flights will be welcomed by those travelling for business and leisure, in particular those visiting friends and relatives.”
Marc Watkins, Birmingham Airport’s Market Development Manager – Aviation, said, “We welcome this development, particularly in today’s challenging economic climate. There is a market for Athens in the Midlands and the convenient schedule will suit those flying on business and leisure to both Greece and the Middle East. We urge those who would normally travel to other UK airports outside the region to now choose Hellenic from Birmingham to support this new venture.”
Theo Silvestros, Commercial Manager, Hellenic Imperial Airways said “As the principal gateway to Mecca, the Jeddah flights to be used by many Pilgrims wanting to access Islam's holiest city, and with such competitive prices Midlands people will be able to start this important journey from their doorstep.”

EK diverted a Gatwick and a Heathrow service to BHX today, giving us 3 on the ground together !

http://bhxflightguide.*************/

BHX-ATH/ATH-BHX has less than 9 seats available on 4 flights in August - not bad at all!

Thanks for the link re the EK divertions - Did any one notice the new pier in the background - I'm sure it will look more impressive when the temporary cladding is removed - Is that it ? - I did breed budgies as a kid.

CAT III (Beauty is in the eye of the beholder).

There is actually a Hellenic 742 due in this evening so they are starting today it would seem! Due to arrive around 2010 from Athens.

UTC or year??

What was the outbound pax figure on the Hellenic? How many were for Jeddah?

"Evening AC would operate 54J instead of 12F/42J, JC service offered in FCL class if cabin is used and would be sold as JC seats. FCL cabin would only be used if the JC pax exceeds 42. Upgrades would be done on criteria e.g. skywards class"

No upgrades until it reaches over the 76 BC seats on the A380!!!!:)

According to FIDS, outbound pax total was 40. Not sure about the split. HA personnel on here maybe able tell you that.

It should get busy in late November for Jeddah methinks.

According to FIDS, outbound pax total was 40

Profitable from day 1 then!

40 pax - not so bad when you consider that after being postponed a few times the flight that eventually operated on Sat was only announced as being the inaugural flight a couple of weeks beforehand - but I still have my doubts about the longevity of this operation using a 747! Good luck to them though :)

Looks like Monarch might have so competition on the Canary Routes. Ryanair starting Tenerife, Gran Canaria and Lanzarote.

Monarch have a massive operation to the Canaries. They haven't really bothered them on other routes so I doubt the 1/2 weekly services to these destinations will make much of a difference either.

Dont you believe it,Monarch will not be impressed.
They see BHX as a future growth airport.
Dont forget Ryanair hitting them in LTN as well ,another established base.

Saving grace this year might be advance bookings but if Ryanair do the canaries year round and increase frequencies we will see if Monarch are up for a fight.

Where have Ryanair ever the frequency from a non-London base on 4+ hour flights?

ALC, PMI and AGP have made little if any difference to ZB's schedules from BHX. In fact, haven't they increased frequency this winter?:confused:

MUFC_fan

I agree the ZB winter schedule from BHX is impressive at the moment
but they have cut this summer compared to last.

Malaga was double daily Th/Fr/Sa/Su/Mo at various times last summer
or the previous one but only daily this summer.

Alicante - At various times there has been a Sat & Sun night summer
departure and neither have operated this year.

Murcia - Daily last summer and operated in winter 07 until FR arrived. Now only four weekly in summer and no winter service .

Palma - no change but now has three operators but none this winter (I know not a great winter deatination but no flights!). Even Baby have
dropped their two a week winter service.



Pete

ZB have customers who travel with them because they chose to, a loyal base, they like the service, many are regulars who use it several times a year.
I believe that these are not the type of passengers who just go for the cheapest reguardless of the carrier!
ZB will remain very much unaffected by the other part time services.

Nice to see a new mid-haul route at BHX to Jeddah, thereby shoe-horning a 747 into the BHX schedule. Co-incidentally it's probably the cheapest legal way of trying out a Lufthansa F class seat (although not service obviously) judging from what's being sold as a J class seat:

http://bhxflightguide.*************/search/label/Airline%20-%20Hellenic%20Imperial

Put your hand up i fyou think the new pier is turning into a nightmare. Anyonw who works at BHX will understand where i'm coming from. Just because something looks nice on the outside........:ugh::ugh:

legalize - For those of us who don't work at BHX, would you care to elaborate on the problems of the 'nightmare' pier that no doubt many of us will be using in the next few months and years....:bored:

PS Not sure I agree that it looks that nice from the outside!!

Not sure the nightmare senario is correct, I know it has had a few logistical problems like the fuelling of 777 on 42 and them complaining of no exit path way, erm try the taxiway??? Other problems are that in its infinate wisdom you cannot call flights down until a/c are ready for boarding. This has made 25 minute spins on a WW737 neon impossible.

I expected there to be teething problems as lets be honest it aint finished and is still work in progress. As for a nightmare no. Its not on the scale of T5 at LHR. Once finished and fully operational am sure no one will miss the old Hole we called the international pier. Also for anyone who does not work there to look at the following link and scroll down to take a look. http://bhxflightguide.*************/.:ok::ok:

I do agree with Gay freindly and no it does not look good from the outside, kinda a big warehouse with airbridges on.

Barry

There are not enough air bridges, pax have to run the gaunlet dodging in between all the equipment servicing the aircraft. Parking for all the ground equipment is going to be a nightmare, the planners seem to have forgot about this point!!!!!

From a pax point of view (arrived last Thursday on stand 40) it looked
great even with a large amount of workmen......well working.

Obviously arriving on 40, I only got a long range view of the one end
and it looked a long way without moving walkways (did not notice them).

The light colours, windows and high ceilings gave a very spacious
look and feel compared to the old wreck.

The airport worked well with the airbridge connected quickly (TOM
flight), not too long at Immigration and the first bags arrived at -18.

I even found a trolley outside without paying the rip-off £1 but it was
very noticeable at the lack of take-up by the pax in baggage reclaim.

Pete

dont thing monarch has many worries about fr's canaries flights... i'm booked on mon's flights to lpa on 28th dec ( 4 pax ), fr is over 500quid more expensive. ok fr flight is on 27th but still quite expensive. dont fr refund double the difference if you find another flight cheaper elsewhere?.

The problems on the Pier stands are being sorted. Most of the problem is that the stands are being used heavily because the 50's are closed for the demolition. Some redesign of stand markings is to happen. The fuellers exit problem on 42 has been sorted. The 50's are all code E stands so should alleviate a lot of the problems. The Emirates will be using 54 as stand of choice I believe, certainly for the A380.
Having said that, we think that whoever designed some of the ground layout needs a good talking to (polite!!). As problems arise though they are being dealt with. I don't think you could have a project of that size without the teething problems.
I think universally the exterior of the pier is seen as just a big warehouse with no redeeming features. The interior is a great improvement on the old obviously.

New route to Reykjavik KEF.
Starting 2010.

Source: Iceland Express' official Facebook page
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Iceland-Express-in-English/94258106828

July stats?

Oltonpete

I am another who is interested in your pax stats for bhx and find it interesting reading. By your previous post I guess you have been away but do you have the stats for July?
I read in a national paper that LHR and LTN are up last month compared to July 08 so seems like some airports have turned the corner maybe?

Hellenic Air

Was scheduled in at 1700 yesterday, delayed to 0600 today then delayed further to 1500 today! Did it eventually arrive? Not a good start for its second visit and quite expensive i guess putting the pax up in a hotel for 23hrs. :bored: Time will tell

Charlie Roy

Sounds like good news but KEF is Keflavik in Iceland.

Reykjavik is RKV.
Just as cold i expect.

Just for info.:ok:

Keflavík (KEF) is the major international airport serving Reykjavík, and in an international context it is commonly referred to as Reykjavík, even on the websites of Iceland Air and Iceland Express .
Keflavík International Airport - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keflav%C3%ADk_International_Airport)

But yes, you are right, it is theoretically incorrect / ambiguous to refer to KEF as Reykjavík, when there does exist is a small air strip "Reykjavík airport" (RKV) in down town Reykjavík serving a handful of mainly domestic short haul destinations.
Reykjavík Airport - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reykjav%C3%ADk_Airport)

But I'm just going to go along with Iceland Air and Iceland Express and call KEF Reykjavík. But sure, those Icelanders should have never allowed this disambiguation to occur....

Yes it did arrive eventually, not the straightest approach I've even seen though and I hope the loads pick up soon:(

Maybe totally off thread but why is it you can't buy a newspaper at BHX until the sun comes over the horizon? Nothing available at any outlets until at least 05:40.

spash and dash.

At present BHX is a long way from turning any corner, the summer season is not to bad but the winter, well we shall have to wait and see.

Reduced Ryanair and BMI baby flights compared to last winter do not bode well for figures.

BHX have had single figure reductions whilst others have had bouble over the previous winter period.

My money at present is on the other way around this winter with BHX having double digit reductions, unless RYR announce some extra flights which at the moment appears unlikely.


Centre cities

You're quite right and its infuriating. You can listen to the radio the night before and they will give you a resume of what's in the following papers. But you try and get one at BHX before 6.15am and you've got a job on.
It is one of these things that the frequent traveller, particularly those on business, do find irritating.
I don't want a cooked breakfast or a pint of beer at 5am, I just want a quality paper.

Guys, why don't you email WH Smiths, who run the shops, and ask them why you can't get a paper? Simples.

Much more fun whingeing about it on here :ok::ouch:

I'm Planning a short break in DXB or elsewhere in the UAE in a few weeks time and can be as flexible as I like with flights. The 380 would make an interesting ride back. Does anyone know if everything still on for EK39 on 9/9?

Thanks

splash&dash

The July figures were only released by the CAA today and it will
take me a while to work out the averages. I was away in July
and therefore I do not have an accurate figure for the number
of rotations, so even more guesswork!

However the July monthly figure was 967953 down 6.2% on 2008.

My estimate was 950000 so not as bad as I thought.

I have 985000 for August which is not far off 10% down but
I have been told that this is also under-estimated and a
million should be hit.

As for winter Centre cities has hit the nail on the head unless
FR add more then BHX has not hit the bottom of the trough yet
in terms of monthly decreases.

PIA also seem to have downgraded most services to the
772 from the 773, which is a blow although 4 x 773's a
week did seem a bit much. Swiss also move from three
daily to two in the week (already 2 at the weekend) from
September (back to three in winter).

I worked a few estimates for November 09 this week and was
shocked at some of the potential daily schedule pax figures
compared to 2008, it is not looking good.

Pete

Realfish

EK39/40 on 9/9 is still planned as an A380 and is being advertised as such in the Birmingham Mail:ok:

Read on another forum that EK web site shows A380 seat map for bookings on those flights.

Will start once weekly flights to Keflavik ex BHX on Sunday evening from June 2010
Daza

Kind of good new re this new route. Iceland is a great place to visit (been twice) however unless you are a real outdoor adventure type a week there would be a little long, so what market are they trying to capture? I doubt the West Midlands is home to a large Icelandic population whilst one flight a week will count out the short break market. I hope their intention is to increase the frequency to at least two flights a week, as with the right conditions this route may have a fighting chance of long term survival. Does anybody know if this an all year round route or summer only job?

SG

This route seems to be under review with the last flight bookable
shown as 15/10/2009.

The way it is shown on their website is similar to how FUE was withdrawn last year.

Pete

Wow, it would seem that FR are really consolidating at BHX rather than expanding, a far cry from the bluster of the original press releases (10 a/c and 100 routes?) I guess we are now in very much more difficult economic times. Out of interest, have just flown EMA-SXF and back, flights packed both ways, my sister who flys it weekly tells me that since the frequency reduction, flights are mostly full on this route, she had to fly from LPL once with EZY as FR were sold out from EMA - surely this is a route that could also work from BHX? FR route planning does seem somewhat bizzare at times to me, i'm sure they know what they're doing though ;)

Gay Freindly.

The Ryanair programme for 4 aircraft is thin to say the least, more like a programme a winter I.T airline would operate.

As for planning some things do seem a little strange.

4 first wave ( if you can call it that ) departures on Mon,Tue,Sat and Sun. 3 departures on Thur and Fri and for some reason 5 on Wed.

As for the afternoon 2 departures Mon,Tue,Fri,Sat, 3 on Wed and Sun and 1 one Thur.

As for the early evening 1 everyday apart from Mon and Fri that have 2.

If you make the early morning departure to Dublin as DUB based aircraft then the programme could be run on 3 with room to spare.

Add to that 6 visiting aircraft Mon,Wed,Fri, 5 on Sun, 3 Sat and just the 2 Dublins Tue and Thur.

One aircraft appears to do the Canaries and thats it for the day. as mentioned the Dublin aircraft appears to do just that and nothing else.

I bet some poor person gets moved on Wed morning as there are 5 departures, Lets hope they dont wait till the last minute to tell them.

Perhaps some ski flights will fill the gaps.

I dont think it is alot at EMA either.

Centre cities

Revised start date 20/5/2010 for next summer and is now showing as daily rather than 5 a week.

The July figures for 2009 were 5679, which is 129 pax per flight or 74%
load factor.

I saw the first release for summer 2010 and it was definitely 5 a week
as per summer 2009 with a start date 21/5/10 or 22/05/10.

Pete

Am I to assume that Torp is dropped from BHX for this winter? Not an expert on route planning but whenever I have travelled STN in the winter, planes are loaded with pax coming over for Premier League football at weekends. Given that BHX now has two Premier League teams (one with a Norwegian international) with another one just up the road in Wolverhampton, Torp would have been an attractive route.

Having seen what has happened at manchester nd with the reduced routes at BHX I wonder ewhat the BHX RYR relationship is like at the moment.

Centre cities

BHX should have a stronger hand as FR have too many planes on order. With Coventry closed there is a sizeable market at BHX. If FR were to scale back others would move in.

I understand the BHX scheme is published as 100% 75% 50% 25% per year reducing each year rebated on landing charges. So presume no other deal was given as other carriers would be upset. This deal is for new routes only but you will get a reduction on growth on the route if you compete with another carrier.

So the big question is year 1 is upon us at BHX, are FR happy to continue with the next 3 years on the scheme ? 100% rebate on landing is healthy on a new a route in Y1 but doubt FR will be happy with 25% in Y4 ?

This could all be wrong I suppose and FR have a different deal, but doubt this ????

More Good News.. New Airline.. New Destination
Iceland Express To Start New Weekly Service Next High Summer On Sundays For 13 Weeks

Simon,

If you read back 1 page, Charlie Roy announced the new Keflavik route on the 11th August. But still, good route. Great Destination.

Regards

Stu

The monthly figures as ever are from the CAA (2008's are in brackets).

The average per flight and load factors are estimated based on my records, help from third parties and acarsd. The latter let me down
with the last four days of July not showing.

I have omitted some schedule routes to keep the post manageable.

> BILLUND/4058(4214)/156 PAX/83% LOAD FACTOR
> COPENHAGEN/4759(7681)/79 PAX (only 6 a week but some MD80's)
> BERGERAC/1496(1459)/57 PAX/71%
> BIARRITZ/3856(3955)/148 PAX/78%
> BREST/846(1612)/47 PAX/60%
> LA ROCHELLE/1327(1705)/51 PAX/63%
> MARSEILLE/3735(6849)/144 PAX/76%
> NICE/6911(7515)/111 PAX/84%
> PARIS CDG/28418(29573)/57 PAX/64%
> PERPIGNAN/2641(2340)/147 PAX/78%
> POITIERS/3783(3966)/146 PAX/77%
> TOULOUSE/770(672)/55 PAX/71%
> DUSSELDORF/10666(12027)/37 PAX/60%
> FRANKFURT/21116(23413)/69 PAX/69%
> HAHN/4191(NIL)/116 PAX/62%
> HAMBURG/2598(2981)/48 PAX/62%
> HANOVER/3713(3248)/53 PAX/65%
> MUNICH/10414(9994)/64 PAX/80%
> WEEZE/5081(NIL)/141 PAX/75%
> STUTTGART/2832(3766)/31 PAX/39%
> CORK/5659(10347)/157 PAX/90%
> DUBLIN/49494)(52043)/146 PAX/80%
> KNOCK/6011(6676)/100 PAX/72%
> SHANNON/9012/145 PAX/77%
> WATERFORD/1888(1870)/35 PAX/53%
> BOLOGNA/2701(NIL)/150 PAX/79%
> MILAN/2724(3579)/44 PAX/41%
> OLBIA/2316(2038)/129 PAX/68%
> PISA/2178(3466)/136 PAX/72%
> TRAPANI/2742(2485)/152 PAX/81%
> TRIESTE/2641(2383)/147 PAX/78%
> AMSTERDAM/34341(39606)/86 PAX/65% ISH
> FARO/15498(16625)165 PAX/86%
> OPORTO/2815(2605)/156 PAX/83%
> ALICANTE/29924(25328)/163 PAX/89%
> ALMERIA/4814(4750)/185 PAX/87%
> BARCELONA/4941(7377)/124 PAX/85%
> GIRONA/4247(4609)/163 PAX/86%
> IBIZA/6331(5362)/176 PAX/82%
> MAHON/7933(6801)/171 PAX/81%
> MALAGA/32942(28447)/153 PAX/85%
> MURCIA/17012(17416)/160 PAX/88%
> PALMA/25683(20478)/163 PAX/92%
> REUS/6989(5429)/159 PAX/84%
> ARRECIFE/3451(1941)/192 PAX/90%
> TENERIFE/8568(6995)/195 PAX/91%
> STOCKHOLM NYO (4456)/5154)/171 PAX/91%
> OSLO-TORP/3881(3869)/149 PAX/79%
> ZURICH/12188(13029)/70PAX/68-70%
> ISTANBUL/5247(NIL)/119 PAX/70% ISH?
> PRAGUE/8108(6824)/139 PAX/78%
> KUNAUS/2922(NIL)/162 PAX/86%
> BYDGOSZCZ/3077(2714)/171 PAX/90%
> GDANSK/3052(4558)/170 PAX/90%
> KATOWICE/5925(NIL)/165 PAX/87%
> KRAKOW/6002(3111)/167 PAX/88%
> RZESNOW/3113(2937)/173 PAX/92%
> BRATISLAVA/4161(8064)/160 PAX/85%
> TEHRAN IRM/2413/101 PAX
> DUBAI/38065(32996)/307 PAX/80%
> ISLAMABAD/8847(9286)/260 PAX/70-75%
> NEWARK/9233(9535)/149 PAX/79%
> PHILADELPHIA/5679(NIL)/129 PAX/74%

Usually story really with leisure routes packed and business routes
quiet as per previous years although as you can see some were
quieter than 2008! There are some signs that the business routes
have slowed in respect of pax losses but still hard times.

I was given the configs used by BE, LH & WW which should help
with accuracy and I hold the config details for most of the EK
fleet so 80% load factor should be accurate. The EK figure I think
was the 2nd or 3rd highest monthly figure.

Pete

CAA again for the montly figures. The rest are best estimates

ABERDEEN/9662(14415)/36 PAX/57%
BELFAST INT/11241(12869)/94 PAX/65%
DERRY/7331(NIL)/118 PAX/63%
DUNDEE/1767 - AVERAGE 18 PAX/53%
EDINBURGH/29123(30877)/65 PAX/63%
GLASGOW/23332(27021)/63 PAX/63%
GUERNSEY/3028(3076)
JERSEY/7639(7030)/61 PAX/75-78% (Combined, some 195's on JER?)
INVERNESS/3362(2592)54 PAX/64% (SEVERAL 195 UPGRADES?)
ISLE OF MAN/4985(4480)/30 PAX/51%
NEWCASTLE/1276(1874)/est 8 PAX - (Not got the number of rotations)
NEWQUAY/2030(1960)/92 PAX/63%

Just a couple of good ones, take the NCL estimate with a pinch of
salt as I think there were planned cancellations during the month
and it did not operate four a day every day (I hope).

Pete

BLQ-BHX 79%.... not bad!
Why Ryanair will delete the route?

"BHX should have a stronger hand as FR have too many planes on order. With Coventry closed there is a sizeable market at BHX. If FR were to scale back others would move in."


I though the whole point was that others were not starting services and BHX passenger numbers were in steep decline hence the desire to attract them in the first place.

Carnt see airlines rushing to serve, they didint before.



Centre cities

tHOmMY777

I am sure it will be down to poor yields but out of NYO, OPO & TRF it
has been operating the shortest time, however last winters totals was probably enough for Ryanair to make a judgement to end the service.

Look at NYO with 91% and OPO at 83% both also ending but hopefully
they are just going seasonable and will be back.

I have monitored fares at time (but not July) and BLQ & NYO always
seem to be quite low especially in winter and one has to assume this
is the reasonable they are ending.

Pete

Thanks for the figures OltonPete.
The Eastern European routes are doing remarkably well, and better than last year in most cases. Another blow to that urban myth that the UK - Eastern European routes are dying a death...

Charlie Roy

No problem.

I think BHX has gained due to the culling of quite a few Polish routes
elsewhere in the UK during the last year such, as Coventry to Katowice
and Gdansk.

It is a shame that Katowice is reducing to two weekly from the winter
schedule (Gdansk was also three a week and is now 2) and Prague
appears to be finishing from late October.

This I assume is partly to do with the spat over fees with the Polish authorities (not sure about the reason for Prague though).

Pete

Is this the full list of what FR have axed at BHX this winter:

OPO
NYO
TRF
BLQ
PRG

airhumberside

It appears Prague was restored today as it is now bookable all winter.

Also there appears to have been no time or frequency change which is
unusual.

The other routes quoted all operated last winter but you can add seasonal
ones such as TRS, TPS, OLB, MRS and add PGF which did operate last winter just often without pax or at least not many.

Palma also operated for part of last winter but is not bookable at all this
winter. KTW (3 to 2), LDY (7 to 4), AGP (7 to 4), REU (4 to 3), SNN (7 to 4), NRN (6 to 4), GDN (3 to 2), DUB (4 to 3 daily) and KRK (4 at times to 3) see frequency reductions on last winter and GRO goes from 3 to 4 a week. increased. Dublin was four daily and will be three.

Might have missed one or two but that is about all I can think off now.

Pete



Peter

I'm pretty sure the Ryanair BHX winter schedule hasn't been fully loaded/released properly yet. Either that or it will officially be the strangest schedule ever operated!

Is TRF off from BHX for the winter period? FR's confusing website offers a £4 flight clearly showing a booking period August 20 - 23 - and a travel period of Sept 3 - Nov 30. But when you try to book there are no flights showing, just the usual notes.... Have flights from BHX not been loaded yet? :bored:

As usual, OP's route analysis makes interesting reading - But Brussels appears to be missing load wise it has been at abou 50 % from memory.

CAT III

befree coventry is not closed.
0523 covman:ok:

CATIII-NDB

Sorry, just laziness on my part, with acarsd having missing data for four days, my records incomplete due holidays it would have taken too long
and put others out to get the full information.

However most months it is around 45-55%.


Monty Gordo

It is believed that Torp will end but as Based has stated it is thought
that the full FR scheduel is not out for winter. However although Torp
did well in July, on an annual basis it has been poor and fares most
months have been rock bottom.

Ryanair have released EMA-RZE & EMA-BZG for booking this winter
and of course these are two of BHX's popular routes, although at 2
a week hopefully all will survive.

flybe

Better news as I have posted on the flybe thread with a lot of BHX
frequencies restored to pre recession levels.

Peter

Olton Peter

Thanks for your info. I have a gut feeling that some Scandinavian routes would do better in winter than summer ie pax from here going for winter sports etc rather than an indifferent Norwegian summer, and pax from say Norway coming to the UK for sport in the winter ie Premier League football rather than an indifferent English summer! Business, I suspect, would be constant throughout the year.
It would be interesting to see the breakdown of pax figures, what percentage are UK generated and what are Scandinavian.

But thanks for you info - will keep watching the FR winter updates.

Re RYR Careful for what you wish for !

BHX as a business model is nearer to MAN than EMA or LIV, having just pulled the plug on MAN after being offered a highly competive rates I would not rely on them at the expense of other airlines.

having just pulled the plug on MAN after being offered a highly competive rates

What offer was this? The rates I believe you are referring to are the published Manchester Airport Charges 2009/2010 available to all airlines. Ryanair wanted to be special!

Saying BHX's business model is nearer to MAN than EMA or LPL is a positive thing.

Quick question for those in the know:

Will the new pier be completed on time? I know the south gates are operational, but looking at a photo of the north side on another website, there seems to be a fair bit of work to do on the north gates.

I passed through BHX yesterday, the old pier is almost demolished once this is done and the apron patched up, the North gates on the new pier should be open.

Final piece of demolition should start on Monday...The Apron Control tower...Not really much left after today....
The answer to the question is 'Yes' it will be completed on time....:ok: (Not my analysis...I asked for you!!)

Just flown out from the new Pier with EK, it might look like a warehouse from the outside but inside it is SO much better than the old structure - it actually now feels like you are flying from a proper international airport. Its so airy and light and the view from the end by Gate 41 of the airfield would make many a spotter cream their pants (just a pity that to get said view and photo opportunities you need a ticket and boarding pass!!) Well done to all those involved :ok:

As for FR I agree i'm not sure that the full BHX schedule is out yet, be good to see some growth in based a/c and destinations but only if sustainable which at the moment I have my doubts. I don't agree though that BHX are relying on them at the expense of other airlines although there would be a big hole to fill in terms of flights if FR did vacate BHX

befree coventry is not closed.
0523 covman

I am very sorry that I am not exactly correct. looking at the CAA provisional stats
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport_data_prov/200907/July_2009_Provisional_Airport_Statistics.pdf

It seems Coventry has 20 pax in July against 967,953 at Birmingham.
Birmingham airport will benefit from most of the pax that used to used Coventry except that last 20!

When Coventry last produced accounts they were losing millions and now their owner (Howard Holdings) has gone under they must have little future as an airport.

What news on new EK lounge.
Is it open yet or waiting for A380 day?

I am very sorry that I am not exactly correct. looking at the CAA provisional stats
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport_data_prov/200907/July_2009_Provisional_Airport_Statistics.pdf

It seems Coventry has 20 pax in July against 967,953 at Birmingham.
Birmingham airport will benefit from most of the pax that used to used Coventry except that last 20!

When Coventry last produced accounts they were losing millions and now their owner (Howard Holdings) has gone under they must have little future as an airport.
The section of Howard Holdings that went under was not the division that hold shares in the airport as far as I know.

It's not ready yet. Not sure when it's due for completion. It doesn't look like any work has started in the area. That said the interior fit of the lounge is now Emirates responsibility. No doubt some interior fit company will fit it out in record time.

No not landing at BHX but made three low level (250ft?) circuits over Earlswood and Tanworth in Arden/Ullenhall at 16.00hrs today.
Didn't realise it was a practice area?

http://bhxflightguide.*************/

Pictures of the old pier being demolished, can be found here.

BMI Baby seem to have released the rest of summer 2010
or at least updated it.

The present schedule Mo-Fr is six based from June. Only four required
Saturday and I wonder if some will do IT work?

Malaga moves to 0725 departure adding to PMI/EDI/GLA/BFS/AMS.

The evening sees Prague moving on Mo & FR.

There are quite a few gaps in the 10.30-16.30 slot which could be
for new or re-instated routes or if things don't work out the Malaga
and Prague could slip back in.

Also I suppose there is also the threat of another 145 taking one
of the domestic flights.

Ryanair

Some of the winter cuts appear to start in the first week of October.
Prague from 5 to 4 (Thu gone), Katowice from 4 to 3 (Fri gone), Krakow
from 4 to 3 (Sun gone). Trieste finishes, plus Londonderry from daily to
4 a week (Mo/We/Fr/Su) and Shannon from daily to four a week (M/W/F/Su)

Pete

http://bhxflightguide.*************/

Pictures of the old pier being demolished, can be found here.
End of an Era.....Many fine memorys. I remember watching it being built. It was the place to be for many years....Gone but not forgoten!:ok:

Guys, why don't you email WH Smiths, who run the shops, and ask them why you can't get a paper? Simples.

Took the advice and duly sent off the e-mail to customer services which elicited the following reply:-


Dear Mr tocamak

Thank you for your email.

Unfortunately, we are at the hands of the publisher to deliver these in the mornings. However please be assured that I have brought your comments to the attention of Dylan Ward, our Store Manager so that he can investigate this further and attempt to obtain these papers a bit earlier.

I am sorry for any inconvenience this has caused you.

Kind Regards

Danielle Hussey

Customer Service Coordinator

So the buck has been passed. Not a big issue really but just surprising given how busy the place is at that time of the morning.

What a joke, thats all I can say:mad:

Arrived as pax at lunch time to be met with a wall of people stretching 3/4 the length of the new pier arrivals corridor just waiting to be allowed down to immigration.

Numerous announcements " high amount of arrival pax" blah blah blah, 2 A321 and 1 B757 aircraft had just arrived to use the new pier.

Whats it going to be like when its fully operational.

Nearly 1 hour from leaving the aircraft to actually reaching the baggage reclaim area:D and 90% of the immigration desks were manned.


WELL DONE

Not to mention the 442 seat Emirates 777-300 and a couple of remote arrivals that were being bused in at the same time which would have added at least the same number of pax again in the immigration area as the flights that you saw, if not more. The Emirates alone would cause delays due to the high number of non EU residents that require landing card and visa checks :ugh:

Exactly...... waiting 1 hour to clear immigration with just normal arrivals just doesnt seem right:= If the system cannot cope with this normal summer arrival lunchtime volume then improvements surely must be made, and not just 5 or 6 self scanning points.