Leavey under fire - AGAIN!!

[SeeArSee]

Has anyone seen today's Telegraph?
A certain female Herc pilot and comments about her Times article.
A number of named officers speaking out against the article.
Oh dear.................

[Pontius Navigator]

Having met the journalist responsible for that hatchet job I suspect he is trying to commit professional suicide as far as being a defence correspondent is concerned.

He bitched about being kept waiting in the Brize car park and thought he was sufficiently trustworthy not to need an escort.

I wouldn't trust him with the time of the day.

Caz was stitched up so I don't know why he wants to jump on the band waggon.

[It's Not Working]

Under fire - AGAIN!!

Have I read the same article as you SAS? From the 'Have your say' replies on the electronic version it looks like the majority are in support of the girl.

The journalist did what journalists do, no surprise there. More worrying are the less than circumspect comments of her fellow officers on the hard copy Telegraph; shouldn't they now be looking at their own conduct?

Or are you fishing and have I just taken the bait?

[humour]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/03/03/npilot03.xml#comments


Seems these readers see the article for what it is.

Lets move on....

Do you think we should get rid of QFE???

[Pontius Navigator]

INW, certainly there was bait there but I think the fish was the journo that floated the story. It is quite at odds with what he said only 3 days ago. Essentially if you trust us and treat us as professional and human we will . . .

Well IMNSHO he has put military-journo relations back decades.

[Mmmmnice]

Maybe I'm being exceptionally naive? but there was a time when it was very rare that one was expected to speak to the press and certainly specific details and pictures weren't included. Now I appreciate there's no red threat left and it doesn't really matter if your bio & pic ends up on the wall in No 1 Dherzinsky Sq (pardon the spelling) but, despite the spate of bruising encounters with various journos, our masters seem hell-bent on shoving us in front of a camera at every available opportunity. Maybe this latest episode will convince someone that not all publicity is good publicity? I do find that talking continuously in acronyms usually puts pay to any 'piece to camera' - or just going flying when you're suppposed to be performing! I also find it disturbing when participation becomes mandatory rather than optional - not part of the job spec that I can recall. It doesn't help that the ladies appear to be taking a lot of the recent flak (can't bomb accurately etc etc) - although I suppose equal treatment, irrespective of gender, is the PC norm - and after all, the only aim is to sell papers isn't it?

[Pontius Navigator]

Mmmmmnice,

You are quite right, things have changed. CAS's priority is now for everyone to be an ambassadore for the Royal Air Force and it is alright to give authorised interviews to the press.

[gashman]

So does that mean that the "training" received by personnel at the end of the A-Cse is going to change?

[Barely Restrained]

More worrying are the less than circumspect comments of her fellow officers on the hard copy Telegraph; shouldn't they now be looking at their own conduct?



The comments attached are lifted from an email that has been doing the rounds on the mil net, amongst all 3 services, since the original article was published (the one I saw even had a one-star comment in it). Clearly somebody has leaked it to a journo for a bit more crab-bashing - glad I deleted it! Guessing there's going to be one or two who will be wishing this was a much longer weekend!! :uhoh:

[Pontius Navigator]

Gashman, see PM please.

[Controversial Tim]

Just saw the picture in the article. Nice helmet. But the big question is -

Would you?

:E :E :E

[Kitbag]

CT, stop being a k^*b.

I guess this one will soon disappear as soon as the next minister gets caught with his/her trousers down, its certainly been done to death here and I thought it had faded away.

[Good Mickey]

CT,

.......................no brainer!!

GM

[brakedwell]

CT, stop being a k^*b.

I guess this one will soon disappear as soon as the next minister gets caught with his/her trousers down, its certainly been done to death here and I thought it had faded away.




How about? "Margaret Beckett forced to give up caravanning for security reasons!"

[general all rounder]

I don't know Caz Leavey but I have heard that she is a professional C130 pilot.

The words expressed may not be hers, in which case she has the right to demand a retraction from the Sunday Times given the damage they have done to her professional reputation. She could consider a complaint to the Press Complaints Commission.

If the words are hers, she should have used different ones. There is nothing wrong with pointing out that pilots need to have uninterrupted sleep even more than some of the rest of us but she could have said the same thing without belittling the contribution of others in her team.

It's never a good idea to circulate rumours on the work e-mail. The staff officers who did so should have thought twice.

A tour at PJHQ brings you into very close contact with the other two Services and provides realisation of how certain RAF practices are perceived by our sister Services. It does not surprise me that the original e-mail originated from PJHQ, but it should not have been sent and it certainly should not have been forwarded.

The RAF of the future is going to have to be deployed to less secure places than we have been used to in the past and we are all going to have to get more robust at operating in an insecure environment where the Army will not always be around to defend us. We need to understand that we are a team not a collection of individuals and reserve our harsh banter for the bar rather than expose it to the Public.

[nigegilb]

What the hell has it got to do with Sqn Ldr Joanne Campbell the planning officer from PJHQ? And why was she emailing it to other women? Leavey is an officer and a pilot and she should take this on the chin and learn from it. This woman's reputation has been dragged throught the mud, she must feel great about her own side knifing her in the back. Anyone have any s**t on Joanne Campbell?

[Roland Pulfrew]

Actually I think it has a lot to do with all women in the Armed Forces. If Flt Lt Leavey said these things, then I suspect that there will be a lot of people gunning for her, both male and female. Her comments if actually made are at best poor banter and at worst naive. Ms Leavey has done nothing for women in the military and in the RAF in particular.

[Chimp Boy]

Whilst I have some sympathy for those who fall foul of the press, isn't the simple answer not to talk to the p:mad:s in the first place. I seem to remember there was an Army pilot who was similarly (although not to the same extent) lambasted for her journalistic efforts about 18 months ago. She was banging on about dodging RPG and SAM to get a Lynx to an SF CTP at BAS PAL.

More TLAS

[On_The_Top_Bunk]

It's nice to see that over 90% of the comments on the Telegraph page are positive and the article is taken in the way it was meant.

The moaners on here really are so up themselves it's funny.

PC gone mad!


Full marks to Flt Cas Creasey, She'll do wonders for RAF recruitment.
Posted by Ron Murray on March 4, 2007 1:38 PM
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she should keep a diary and write a book it wd be a best seller. (from p.griffiths ex-wren fleet air arm)
Posted by pip griffiths on March 4, 2007 1:36 PM
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Full marks to Flt Lt Cas Leavey. She is a credit to the RAF. The publicity will no doubt do wonders for the recruitment figures.
Posted by Ron Murray on March 4, 2007 1:02 PM
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I take my hat of to her,she has said nothing detrimenental against the military and only aired her views.
As said in other comments,the high brass should get off thier backsides and experience the conditions that serving personnel live under in Iraq.
All the best to you Fl.Lt.Leavey and I hope that all this blows over and doesn't affect any chances of further promotion. Ex R.A.F.of 25 years service.
Posted by Raymond G.Knight on March 4, 2007 10:26 AM
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Sir,
Sorry but we need people with the spirit, humour and courage of Flt Lt Leavey.
The reaction of the “desk flyers” and clerks was so similar to the old “Brylcream Boys” taunts issues by similar small minded and frankly jealous so called colleagues of yester years.
As an old flyer, Flt Lt Leavey, I am very proud of you – the sharp end is always difficult for others to comprehend.

Posted by Gordon Barry on March 4, 2007 10:18 AM
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My sergeant always told us that "any bloody fool can be uncomfortable" ... it's a long-standing tradition in expeditionary forces to make yourself as comfortable as possible. A tradition that goes back a few centuries. Helloooo!

Posted by Chris on March 3, 2007 9:51 PM
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The lady has something which unfortunately is in short supply today, a sense of humour ! I remember when I was in the "mob", my fellow airmen had a sense of humour which is lacking everywhere today. The British used to be known for their gallows sense of humour, the Australians are right, the Poms now are just a bunch of whingers.
Posted by Phil on March 3, 2007 9:23 PM
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Good on Ya Caz. Why shouldn't you tell it how it is? A fresh and relaxed ditty on the realities of life Out of Area. Why are people so uptight about these things - the public have brains and are compassionate. Hierarchy however . . .
Posted by LB on March 3, 2007 9:07 PM
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Have the MOD got nothing better to do than critisise a young pilot on active service. May I suggest that they concentrate on providing our service personnel with the best equipment to do the job. And then SUPPORT THEM.
Posted by jeannette Pavey on March 3, 2007 8:06 PM
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My daughter is half way through her RAF Officer Training. It is just the sort of thing she would write too - amusing, light hearted and a touch of girlie take on a pretty nasty situation. Well done Flt Lt Leavey, I much enjoyed your article.
Posted by Dru Nicholson on March 3, 2007 5:32 PM
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We all try to make ourselves comfortable when on operations and I don't believe any of Flt Lt Leavey's colleagues criticise her for this (I certainly don't). It is her attitude to those around her that is of concern. Without the raft of support personnel: chefs, administrators, technicians, force protection, etc., Flt Lt Leavey would not be able to do her job.
Posted by Andy Stanney on March 3, 2007 5:05 PM
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The officers who are complaining about the article a being a bit thin skinned.Possibly jealous? It was a well written article and fairly light in it's comments.This would not have been criticised in the past. I speak as a former serving RAF Officer
Posted by Allan Davies on March 3, 2007 4:19 PM
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Nice to see someone maintains some humour in such difficult conditions. Also, if you've never had to exist on MRE's etc in hot and arid climes then just button up-you haven't the faintest!!!
Posted by John RH Hullah on March 3, 2007 3:28 PM
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Well done, Flt Lt Leavey.

The lady has style.
Posted by Major John Turner on March 3, 2007 3:25 PM
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Rock on, Flt Lt Leavey!

As someone's already mentioned, if the people busily criticising her were in the front line it'd be less disgusting that they let their anally retentive, humourless protests be the ones to actually sully the reputation of the Armed Forces.

Wish there were more sensible, upbeat, honest people like Flt Lt Leavey in the Forces ..maybe we wouldn't have so many cockups if we had!
Posted by susie main on March 3, 2007 3:02 PM
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Wind your necks in boys and girls, for goodness sake a little bit of light relief from the horrors of this situation is what is needed. I also detect a little bit of the green eyed monster!!!
Posted by Lisa Allen on March 3, 2007 1:16 PM
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Factual and witty commenting are all very well, but with the efficiency of communications and the media, do we really want to wash our dirty laundry so publicaly in front of the enemy we are fighting. Perhaps this would have been better done after hostilities were over.
Posted by Ian K. Pestell on March 3, 2007 12:27 PM
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Sounds like the REMFs getting jealous of a front liner stealing a bit of glory, by unconventional means... Good luck to her and all the guys & gals who are in the front line risking their necks for an ungrateful nation and the peacock (Tony BLIAR) throne...
Posted by Tim Payne. on March 3, 2007 12:20 PM
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As a serving RAF aircrew officer who flies regular operational missions with female pilots, the type of criticism levelled at this officer winds me up. I suspect that her fiercest critics have never been in the highly dangerous situations that she and all the other crews find themselves in day to day. I have and I know what its like. If her ground crew are "riled" at her comments they need to get out more. As for the senior planning officer... well perhaps not. She's a professional, doing her job in bloody awful circumstances, let her get on with it
Posted by disgusted of Oxfordshire on March 3, 2007 11:45 AM
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Having read and re-read your article I can find nothing whatsoever that should cause upset to any of the pampered hierarchy in the MOD.

Perhaps instead of venting their fury at Flt Lt Caz Leavey they could possibly get on with the job of updating the Hercules C130 fuel tanks with foam and prevent any further loss of life in these now ancient aircraft.
Posted by Martyn Dixon on March 3, 2007 11:39 AM
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An officer and gentlewoman brave and nice.

Posted by Peter the Rock on March 3, 2007 11:07 AM
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I served 12 years as a GD/P and in my time you were not allowed to be as stupid to engage in such 'Press'.
Now one can see the reason!
I have much admiration for female pilots, so this is not a pot-shot at them.
Posted by Captain Bryn Wayt on March 3, 2007 11:05 AM
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Calm down dears!!!
Posted by Matt C on March 3, 2007 11:00 AM
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Whats the problem here? Other than the reactions
of her seniors, this is a complete non story!
Posted by Peter Harrington on March 3, 2007 9:46 AM
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Can you see a problem here, anywhere at all?

A woman committed to the armed services who just
happens to have a healthy take on life in a ghastly
situation that nobody wants.

More power to her.
Posted by Andrew Whitehead on March 3, 2007 9:00 AM
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I wish I'd read the Sunday newspaper article it sounds like a fascinating slice of real life. I really can't see why the military are so cross about what she said. It certainly has the ring of truth about it. Aren't we supposed to know that our military personel are human? Everyone knows men in the military enjoy letting off steam, whether through irreverent remarks or whatever, and as long as it doesn't compromise their professionalism that's okay. So what's the problem here? Is it because she's a woman?
Posted by Sandy Mitchell on March 3, 2007 8:33 AM
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Well, I have the distinct honor of having helped complete the initial production design of the C130 aircraft and after reading Flight Lt. Leavey's report, I can say it is a delight to have her piloting my pride and joy.
Posted by Waddell Robey on March 3, 2007 8:04 AM
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I think those senior officers need to get a life!!
Flt Lt Leavey, provides a humorous and totally harmless account of her days in Iraq, she sounds just the sort of refreshing and brave young woman the service needs instead of the 'fuddy duddies' in charge!!
Ask the TV companies to do a 'Day in the life of' about her duties, they will be fighting over the chance!!

Posted by Martin Hayhurst on March 3, 2007 8:03 AM
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There is a saying, which I believe has been current in the military; 'any fool can be uncomfortable'. Your report suggests that Flt. Lt. Leavney does her best to avoid being uncomfortable and her collegues object to that. Are they fools, we should be told?
Posted by Antony Rigby on March 3, 2007 7:51 AM
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Can't see what all the fuss is about myself. Good to learn a little bit of the human side of war and how people adapt and derive humour from it. Stop being so sensitive all you others. Humour and improvisation have always been coping mechanisms in times of great stress. She's a woman, that is how it is! Have a laugh!
Posted by Roger Lincoln on March 3, 2007 7:31 AM
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Truth at last from an Officer and gentlewoman
Posted by Peter Bysouth on March 3, 2007 4:53 AM
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Dear Sirs,
What a hoo hah abot nothing. Might I suggest that the safely posted Squadron Leader, a planning officer get out of her comfortable chair and indulge herself with a few trips into Bahgdad. Then she might have the right to criticise a brave young woman in the front line. Get a life people. Try a few days over here and a few more of those 'infuriated senior officers' would have something more on their mind than the attitude of a pilot flying in a bloody dangerous place. Better a frank female in charge of the lives of hundreds of fighting men than the feerless warriors sending e-mails around the country. She should get a medal you silly buggers.
Posted by Vivian J Phillips on March 3, 2007 4:19 AM

[Pontius Navigator]

She was stitched. I have that from an impeccable source. The journo in question submitted the article, as requested, to Caz for agreement and amendment. This had been agreed with the editor. The journo then slipped the unauthorised version into the paper. It is not known whether the editor in question realised that the article had not had prior approval.

Now there is every likelihood that TH knew all this but went ahead and published his article too.

Now what was it that TH said about placing more trust in broadsheet journalists? :mad:

[Stuff]

The journo in question submitted the article, as requested, to Caz for agreement and amendment.

So are you saying that the article was written by the journo and then given to Caz so she could add her name to it afterwards? Not likely

On the other hand if what you are saying is that the journo drafted that article based on a conversation with Caz with her having the expectation that she would be able to change it before it was printed then she's incredibly naive. If you don't want it printed, don't say it.

I still maintain she's done more to harm relations between aircrew and the rest of the RAF than anything else I've seen in many years. All very embarrassing. Perhaps she would be good enough to write in to RAF News and apologise.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Stuff,

Either your's and PN's posts crossed or you need to do some reading courses as what he has to say on the matter seems clear as a clear thing to me :rolleyes:

Now in the face of PN's revelations, funnily how it comes as absolutely no surprise to most sane folk, I wonder what 3.4, TSM and the like have to say now :ugh:

[samuraimatt]

Oh god this really really dull now. Wasn't this thrashed out in the first thread. Get over it people, if you really are interested in other peoples lives get a copy of Hello magazine..................:rolleyes:

[It's Not Working]

Stuff
Are you honestly saying that the rest of the RAF is so thin skinned and narrow minded that they can’t see that article for what it is – a complete and utter stitch up. If my fellow blunt brethren are suffering relationship angst with aircrew because of this article then my pension in 2-years’ time can’t come quick enough. The girl was somewhere hot, dirty and dangerous where people are trying to do her, and her crew, harm every time she moves and you expect her, a junior officer with other things to worry about, like staying alive, to be able to second guess the motives of a creditable journalist inside the wire?
This is more a case of kick somebody when they’re down and twist the knife at the same time and frankly it’s shameful. I would suggest that half the senior officers in the 3 services are saying, ‘there but for the grace of God…’ while every junior officer has learnt a lesson from it that will stay with them for the rest of their career.
Hopefully Caz has enough grounds to take this journalist to the cleaners and I also hope that the Service will show its support by standing alongside her. I for one salute her and her colleagues for the job they are doing while I sit in my air conditioned office facing the daily danger of a paper cut.

[Controversial Tim]

Not only would I like to see Caz write an apology to the RAF News for both the readership to see, I would like to see her run three laps of the peri fence naked after being dipped in honey.

I don't think she should, I'd just like to see her do it. And you've got to admit -
it makes a lot more sense than most of the drivel posted on both threads about her so far :rolleyes:

[samuraimatt]

Ok for you all please find a link here to the first thread.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=263967

[Pontius Navigator]

I would like to see the two journalists and the email leaker write the apology.

As for running naked covered in honey, only if he also had feathers on.

[Controversial Tim]

Now that's just weird ..... :D

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

What made me chuckle about the original article was the notion that a co-pilot might crash an aircraft by being a bit fatigued! Surely when things start going slightly awry, due to co-pilot fatigue/nerves/inexperience/ineptitude, the captain steps in?

Anyone ever heard of a co-pilot managing to bring death/disaster/crashes by being slightly tired?

Or was that quotation just part of the unauthorised amendment?

[propulike]

TorqueOfTTheDevil said oin a post on 05Mar2007 at 0840:What made me chuckle about the original article was the notion that a co-pilot might crash an aircraft by being a bit fatigued! Surely when things start going slightly awry, due to co-pilot fatigue/nerves/inexperience/ineptitude, the captain steps in?Spoken like a true ground pounder.

Now go slag off someone who's talking about something you know about.

[startermotor]

Being one of the Ground trades who has had the pleasure of working with Caz on several occaisions in both theatres. I have seen first hand the skills she has as a pilot. I would just like to say having looked at both threads on here that most of the moaning is from officers and not the groundies that she is supposed to have upset in the first place.
I for one, knowing Caz, can see this article for what it is.
She has the utmost respect for all those involved in the day to day running of the fleet.
Now please leave it alone, act like officers and let it go.
Looking forward to flying with you again soon Caz.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

What this thread could really do with is a copy of the original email from the S/L Blunty from the Bunty, Planning Officer...I mean what the f*ck is one of those, which would really give those of us who knew she had been stitched a giggle...................come on pretty please someone must have it :E

[RETDPI]

Loadies, Don't you love them!

[general all rounder]

What this thread could really do with is a copy of the original email from the S/L Blunty from the Bunty, Planning Officer...I mean what the f*ck is one of those, which would really give those of us who knew she had been stitched a giggle

Happy to oblige:

"I didn't realise that much of my contribution has been in the 'less stringent' category, whereby the only thing of note is the odd pencil-lead breaking when we're a bit knackered. "I cannot imagine that she would really care knowing that she has upset a number of her own — neither does the RAF it seems if we sanction this sort of thing as good PR and reinforce a whole raft of stereotypes to boot."
Sqn Ldr Joanne Campbell

Speaking as a one time planning officer at PJHQ, I was shot at and mortared a whole lot more in that job than in any other in the RAF and probably been to more slightly dodgy places than most, but I'm sure not all, the rest of the RAF. Add to that the 18 hour days, 6-7 days a week for 2 years with but a few days' leave and I think that's where Joanne Campbell is coming from, not that I know her.

[Stuff]

I would just like to say having looked at both threads on here that most of the moaning is from officers and not the groundies that she is supposed to have upset in the first place.

Yes, strange that there's more officers than groundies on a forum dedicated to military aircrew... Perhaps if you have a look over on e-goat you would get a more balanced view. "That bint Leavey" as one poster would have it doesn't get such a good write-up there.

[ZH875]

Yes, strange that there's more officers than groundies on a forum dedicated to military aircrew... Perhaps if you have a look over on e-goat you would get a more balanced view. "That bint Leavey" as one poster would have it doesn't get such a good write-up there.

Yawwwwwnnnnn!!!!!!!!

Military Aircrew A forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, all equally welcome here.:ugh:

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Crikey I thought we had it busy Gar but I am just so glad I don't have a job where you work over 100 hours week non stop for 2 years, apart from a few days leave!

I take my hat off to you and your fellow planning officers as I had no idea anyone in the RAF or the other 2 services for that matter worked at that sustained tempo :ok:

Planning Officer..........shan't be recommending that job to anyone in a hurry :ooh:

[viz]

Sounds terribly brave GAR, just out of interest what planning job did you do so I know which one to avoid?

[cooheed]

Check PM SFFP

[Tourist]

Gar.
You're my hero.
Can I be you.

[samuraimatt]

Speaking as a one time planning officer at PJHQ, I was shot at and mortared a whole lot more in that job than in any other in the RAFBlimey I know that Northwood has a problem with a bit of petty vandalism but I didn't think it had got that bad.:eek:

[Pontius Navigator]

I had a thought about the pencil versus crash argument and I suspect her choice of extremes might have been better the reason was quite simple.

Remember she was talking, probably over a telephone, to a journalist who was going to write to an uninformed public. How was she to explain the critical nature or her job compared with the much more benign conditions of a pencil pusher?

Taken out of context, as Joan Blunty did, it looks crass. In the context of two understandable extremes it looks much more relevant.

[Grabbers]

SamuraiMatt
I agree. Strange, however, that again you appear so heavily in this 'non thread'. Surprised you haven't invoked the power of the Mods again...

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Sam/Matt,

Reading this thread, or any other for that matter is NOT compulsory so if it offends you don't open it or even better shut the f%ck up, as plenty of others have advised and get back to watching CBBC :ugh:

[bayete]

For Nige G.
A certain planning officer asks.... While working at ASCOT Ops.
Q-"Can I divert a C17 to Christchurch (NZ)?"
A-"Which one?"
Reply- "The one going to CHS"
Response-"Errrrr.......???? you mean the one going to CHS, Charleston, South Carolina. :ugh:

[TWOL8]

PN,
if her aim was to give an example to an uninformed public it would have been much better to use one that didn't involve slating her comrades. e.g it's not like driving a taxi or working in a shop.
The fact that she chose to use the typical if you don't fly your not in any danger or don't have responsibility for the safety of others shows a total lack of consideration for all those personnel serving out of area, in crap locations for little reward.
Whats worse is that our so called media comms people didn't catch this -we really are our worst enemies sometimes!!!:sad: :sad: :sad:

[samuraimatt]

Oh god, round and round we go.......................There is a saying "Today's news is tomorrows chip wrapper" Well all I can say is that it was last months news and you must have a big bag of chips.....:ugh:

[Pontius Navigator]

TWOL8, agree, I am just speculating further, but it is not likely that these two remarks were actually part of a much lengthier conversation with Caz seking to establish a point and being led on by the journo. At each turn in the conversation the journo draws her out?

As has been said many times here, she was perhaps unwise and inexperienced but the unedited transcript would make fascinating reading.

The more I think how it may have gone the more I think was left out than left in.

[samuraimatt]

the unedited transcript would make fascinating reading

No it wouldn't. Do you know her personally because you seem to be making a lot of assumptions.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

"Do you know her personally because you seem to be making a lot of assumptions"

I do, it would and you should be watching CBBC you silly little man instead of continually making a prat of yourself on here :ugh:

[3 bladed beast]

samuraimatt

Big cook/little cook is on cbbc now - off you go and watch, and don't sit too close to the telly.....

[airborne_artist]

and don't sit too close to the telly

or spill your squash on your Mum's carpet :E

[roony]

At last, i feel i can contribute something constructive to this thread! Big cook little cook is on CBeebies, not CBBC. An easy mistake to make though.

[Echo 5]

Seldomfit,
I must apologise. At one point I thought that you and samuraiprat were either soul mates or one and the same person. I see now that this is obviously incorrect.
The little twerp should be marched by the scruff of the neck to the Headmasters study and given a good caning.:)

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

E bloke,

Aplology accepted but not required fella :ok:

[startermotor]

My headmistress once gave me a caning.

[An Teallach]

Startermotor

Don't! You've just brought a flood of memories back of waiting with the formidable Miss Thompson (School Secretary) before going in to see the Heidmaister (know as the Dom or The Pod) for a thrashing.

This amazing woman was in her mid fifties, was endowed like the R101 and 102, wore tweed suits and pencil-line stockings and always sported a 1940's style coiffure and make-up. In truth, she looked like Alastair Sim in drag in the St Trinians movies.

It's quite a feat that I and many like me who are products of boys' boarding schools are not now in our forties paying 'professionals' for 'personal services'!

[Judge Rembrandt]

I knew this was somewhere in the vaults of PPRUNe.....
With thanks to Stop Start.......
Another C130 Pilot..... another place..........another time.........
Q? - What is an average day in the life of an RAF pilot........
StopStart " Not entirely relevant, but someone asked a similar question in the Mil Forum a while back.
Not sure how much of this carries across to the civvy world.........
This may ring a few bells for the ex-mil truckies out there
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure about the fast jet heroes but a truckie might experience something like this......
0700L - Woken by telephone call. It's another crew member reminding you that wheels are at 0700L.
0700.5L - Leave hotel room fully clothed, refreshed, with bags packed, ready to face the day's challenges.
0705L - Get to bus. Apologise to rest of your crew for your tardiness. Claim that you spent too long in the gym that morning. Note looks of disbelief. Remember not to use that excuse again.
0706L - Take seat on bus. Note t-shirt is on inside out. Hope nobody else notices.
0720L - Recline in air conditioned luxury as the bus propels you to the airport. Suspect that you didn't pack your shoes and that your washbag is still in the hotel bathroom.
0745L - Arrive at airport and debus. Note that suitcase is suspiciously light. Now fairly confident that shoes are still under hotel bed.
0800L - Negotiate airport security. Spend several minutes being told that you cannot take the knife on your flying suit onto the aircraft without the captain's permission. Explain that you are the captain.
0810L - Still negotiating airport security. Guard now on telephone to superiors. Suspect he does not believe that you are the captain. Remember t-shirt is on inside out. Now suspect that you have also not brushed your hair this morning. Try to see reflection in window to confirm. Get funny looks from guard.
0815L - Eventually allowed to pass on the understanding that you hand the knife to loadmaster for safe keeping until you reach the aircraft. Leave knife and now worryingly light suitcase with loadmaster and proceed to Met.
0820L - In depth met brief for 15 minutes as very keen met officer explains that there is in fact no weather within a 500nm radius of the airport or your destination.
0835L - extract a selection of performance figures from a variety of graphs.
0845L - compare selection of figures with those of co-pilot. Decide that they're close enough although suspect that the co-pilot isn't entirely sure what's going on.
0850L - The cause of the co-pilot's distraction becomes apparent when he announces that he has left the imprest* in the hotel safe.
0853L - stop laughing to take a breath.
0854L - Co-pilot disappears to find taxi back to hotel. Decide that you've briefed enough and head out to the aircraft.
0858L - Arrive at aircraft. Loadmaster now extremely hot and sweaty manhandling pallets single handedly into aircraft, cursing the local handling staff. Praise him for his hard work. Pretend to miss his request for help and proceed outside hastily. Spot Flt Eng and GE looking concernedly at a large trail of orange fluid emanating from an engine. Saunter over casually to join them but they spot you and pretend they were talking about football. Mention the large leak. Note they both feign surprise and pretend they hadn't seen it. They dismiss it as a "seep". Retire to flight deck safe in the knowledge that they will die with you if it explodes in flight so assume that it'll probably be alright. Note tray of sandwiches on flt deck bunk.
0910L - Finish last smoked salmon and cream cheese baguette just as the now exhausted loadmaster joins you on the flight deck. Apparently he could really do with a smoked salmon baguette. State that sadly there were none. Surreptitiously wipe cream cheese and salmon from your chin and hope he didn't notice. Offer him processed ham and gherkin sandwich. He declines.
0925L - Co-pilot returns looking somewhat frustrated. Establish that imprest had in fact been in his suitcase all along.
0935L - Call for crew check in on intercom then realise you are in fact the only one on headset. Again, hope no-one noticed. Eventually gather enough people on intercom.
0937L - Commence starting checks. During start a light on the top panel comes on. Remember seeing this light during a simulator once but cannot recall what exactly it is. Flt Eng begins explaining an electrical fault with the aid of a large wiring diagram. Nod every now and then and agree with him at salient points. Wonder if you shaved this morning.
0940L - Fault rectified, taxy off blocks. Only 10 minutes late. Not bad going.
0941L - ATC pass lengthy clearance. Note the co-pilot copies down "ATC Clears Ascot 5432 to destination..." and then nothing else. ATC requests readback. Co-pilot asks - "did anybody get that". Navigator proceeds to pass the details to him. Flt Eng assists by commenting that he thought the clearance was slightly different. Flt Eng and Navigator argue. Co-pilot drops pencil. You note that your cup of tea has gone cold.
0945L - Cleared line up.
0946L - Airborne. Gear up. Now positive that your shoes are still in hotel.
1100L – Top of climb. Autopilot appears to be u/s. Express relief that it’s the co-pilot’s leg.
1115L – Commence first meal.
1130L – Replete from meal, retire to freight bay to use the “facilities”. On return, note large pallet of full mail bags. A quick test reveals the pile to extremely comfortable. Relax eyelids briefly.
1400L - Return to flight deck to find co-pilot now desperate to use “facilities”. Explain that you were delayed discussing your routing with some of the pax down the back. Take control.
1405L – Co-pilot returns. Comments that the passengers must all be asleep in the freight now as he couldn’t see them. Remember vaguely that you actually have no pax.
1415L – Pass overhead large international airport. Nil cloud or weather, calm, unlimited visibility. Co-pilot asks you get the weather for the airfield below. Look out window. Navigator asks for the QNH there. Make up figure.
1500L – Get cramp. Go to “inspect the freight bay”. Discover that loadmaster has been hoarding chocolate in his drawer in the galley. Steal the good ones.
1520L – Steal Flt Eng’s FHM. Read out the jokes at the back. Flt Eng comments that they have already been read out earlier in the flight. Look busy with Jetplan.
1600L – Top of descent.
1615L – Commence second meal. Spill curry on flying suit leg when putting the gear down.
1630L – Aircraft lands at destination.
1640L – On chocks. Aircraft met by officious customs man who demands that the can of coke you are now drinking from be destroyed before you can leave the aircraft.
1830L – Eventually find bus to take crew to hotel. Despite having been on the ground for 1.5hrs it still takes 30 minutes for every man and his dog to get on the bus.
1915L – Arrive at Hotel Splendide. Receptionist requires passports, ID cards and birth certificates from each crew member.
1957L – Eventually receive room key. Arrange to meet in co-pilots room in 10 minutes for more money.
2006L – Finally get to room. Happens to be most distant room from reception. Again. Open suitcase. As expected no shoes. Or washbag. Find trousers that go best with flying boots.
2008L – Arrive one minute late at co-pilot’s room to discover he has gone. Adjourn to hotel bar. Crew member visited this location 7 years ago. Remembers a fantastic bar. Set out to find bar.
2230L – Arrive back at hotel bar having walked around city centre twice in search of bar. Crew member then remembers that in fact the bar wasn’t in this town but one like it. Blow entire kitty on one round of beers at hotel prices.
2345L – GE gets address of low quality strip bar from hotel barman. You decide it’s bedtime. Crew members engage in harsh banter. You hold your ground.
2346L – Leave hotel for low quality strip bar. Evening becomes a blur..............
0700L – Woken by telephone call.......................
The events portrayed above are fictional. Any similiarity to any events experienced by persons living or dead are purely conincidental
* Imprest = large sum of cash mil crews are given to pay hotac, handling and catering etc etc
If only she had said.............

[allan907]

Point 1 - Aren't "planners" drawn from the pointy part of the team? So that wouldn't be admin, supply etc (or whatever constitutes 'blunty' nowadays)??

Point 2 - Stay away from IOT at Cranwell. I did a tour there where for a full year I had no leave whatsoever and put in the occasional 100+ hour week (the standard 40 hour week was a bit of a rarity).

Point 3 - Samuraimatt Please go away and shut up!

Point 4 - Whatever the rights and wrongs of the original article it was not good.

Point 5 - Here in Oz media interviews are regularly handled with aplomb by ranks as low as corporal. Don't know what the system of training is in the Australian Defence Forces but it seems to work.

[Pontius Navigator]

Allan Point 1 - Aren't "planners" drawn from the pointy part of the team? So that wouldn't be admin, supply etc (or whatever constitutes 'blunty' nowadays)??
That used to be the case - fly - fly - HQ Job - fly - planner etc. Then, about 10 years ago the cycole changed.
fly - fly - PVR - fly - fly - holiday - fly
This only left rearcrew to do plans jobs and fly Tonka/Nimrod etc so they dreamt up Flt Ops branch.
not fly - drink coffee - plan - not fly etc.
In Ops one day, just before I would have switched the lights out, ATC relayed to the Fire Section et al the emergency state and problems of an inbound aircraft. To say this caused barely a ripply in the two Ops O's coffee would be an exageration. It caused no ripples whatever.
When I asked what the tannoy call had been they had neither understood or even registered the call.

PS, as well as not requiring any particular aptitude attainment they do not get flight pay either.

[allan907]

OK - so they are almost at the pointy end. But my point was that the bone appeared to be pointing at the traditional "blunties" (wear it with pride team :D ) admin, supply, engineers etc, who, it would appear, are whiter than the driven snow in this case :ok:

[BEagle]

Is that nonsense of the Phone Answering Branch still going on? I was once nearly joe'd for a stint in some desert dump because the DetCo refused to have anyone from the PAB in his Ops room. Fortunately I didn't go - the bloke who did said it was a waste of time and he ended up doing most of the wrok so his boss could go and get drunk with his cronies.....

I'm sure that the option of a tour in the UK with predictable hours would offer a pleasant change for many hard worked aircrew. Things like UASs used to offer that - except that the beancounters got rid of any meaningful levels of QFI requirement and instead formed the University Air Cadets....:{

[Pontius Navigator]

Allan, please see PM, I put this message in the wrong forum to start with.

Beags, yes, I believe it is and probably because there aircrew pool continues to drain away. I made the point you just made earlier on. The Ops tour was both a rest tour, something that happened in WW2 even, and a good broadening tool as well. You had to read and learn all the Op Orders and Procedure books etc and this stood you in good stead later.

It was a shame however that Ops Officer was always considered a lowly post as I believe many putative flt commanders would have benefited from a FOFL Ops tour.

[BellEndBob]

How sad that this article has generated more discussion in the media than the pitiful state of the RAF today. The Air Power, and associated AT support, being delivered in the two Armed Conflicts currently being fought is pathetic. That is not due to the lack of effort of either air or ground specialisations, but poor Government and Piss Poor leadership from within.

I suggest, Ladies and Gentlemen, that we concentrate on that.

[3 bladed beast]

Now come on BellendBob

I thought President Blairs decision to impose massive cutbacks whilst at the same time committing us to both Afganistan and Iraq was a superb idea.

[BellEndBob]

Maybe if the Chiefs put their case using Gangster Rap, it might help. :rolleyes:

[Echo 5]

What's been going on ? Been up in Gods country for a long weekend for the Rugby and just catching up on Prune.

Just checked samuraiprats profile to see what the little twerp has been up to and it says he is Persona Non Grata. Is this him arrsing around or have the Mods finally binned him ? Please someone.............enlighten me. :D