Ravenair - Northwest Flying Schools

[long final]

Can anyone offer personal opinions of their experience (CPL/FI(R) training) at Ravenair, thanks?

LF

[Penworth]

yeah I'd like to hear from anybody who has experienced them too as they're not too far from me. I emailed them for some basic information on their CPL course a few weeks ago but haven't heard back from them...

PW

[silentwitness]

I've been recommended to stay away from them. Apparently the aircraft they use also double as air-taxis and so if a booking comes in when you're due for a flight...... Well you can work the rest out for yourselves! This is not certain however, just what I was told by someone who seems to be a good source of info on these things.

[RowleyUK]

I did some hour building there late las year......

Planes are always available........although the Tomahawks are a little old but, then again, are there any tomahawks about that aren't old?
Instructors were nearly all nice chaps.......
Liverpool airport is a nice airport to fly from......
Jenny in accounts is especially nice at sorting dicounts and stuff.....
Primo (CFI) is avery approachable guy........

I often hear alot of bad press about Ravenair but form my experience i cant think of anything bad about them..

Although i didnt do my CPL with them, looking back, i wish i had!!


Hope this helps!

:ok:

[African Drunk]

One ex instructor of theirs told me the IR had some series three passes, worrying. No personal experience of them.

[Aerofoil]

Well i can only speak as a PPL student (almost done) but i can vouch that the instructors i have flown with are very good indeed. It can be a bit rushed in the flying school at times but the aircraft are always available.

I plan on doing my CPL and IR with Ravenair when i come to do them.

Cheers

Dave

[Jagbag]

Just wanted to know the type of simulator which Ravenair have and for which aircraft type?

Just wanted to do some sim hours towards IR prep and was looking for details of various sims.

Thanks

[Diamond 'katana' geezer]

Hello all,

I have decided that I would like to complete my training at Ravenair in 'The (Insert what I’m sure will be an derogatory word here) Pool'

One reason for wanting to train with Ravenair is the other operations they conduct.

I dropped into Ravenair on an hour building trip a while back and got chatting to a chap there who was an employee and an ex-student. It seems that he was taken on a check flight (post CPL/IR FI) by the CFI and given a job as a charter pilot on the Aztec and Seneca’s there. This work was to supplement his work in op's and as an FI.

Now.... i understand the fact that this is one man, but I’d really like to get into work of that type and that is what attracts me to Ravenair, along with many other things (location, cost, blah blah)

I'm sure recruitment for these things is on an 'ad hock' basis, but is there anyone who knows how often this happens?
Does this happen at similar schools? Bristol Flight Centre to name another.

Any opinions on Ravenair would be very helpful. I imagine as there is not much on pprune about them that 'no news is good news'!?!

I'm sure it is probably a pay your money and take your chances thing. However, I’m sure you’ll agree it's reassuring to here something back from people who have been there before.

Thank you so very much for any help
Geez:cool:

[craig1975]

Hi mate,

I have flown with Ravenair as a PPL and fly from Liverpool. They are good and get a lot of good reviews about them and Liverpool is not a particularly busy airport so £300/hr delays are not going to build up that much.

However as a word of caution that I am thinking about as I intend to do my CPL/IR during 2005, with so many other wannabes out there, some modular others integrated and most from schools that have a reputation with the airlines, such as CABAIR, OATS, Bristol, Multiflight, Bournemouth, etc - would you be putting yourself at a disadvantage by going to Raven.

I am not exactly sure about the recruitment, but I would imagine if a student/instructor is particularly good and a vacancie arises, they would get a fair shot at the position and this may occur at all school, however I would imagine that most positions are advertised somewhere in the aviation press.

Hope this helps

Craig

[Diamond 'katana' geezer]

Hi there Craig,

Thanks for the reply.

Well, i currently work at one of those schools that you mention, and i can say that by going to that school the students are not getting any advantage whatsoever (not instantly and certainly there is no direct connection to any airline). I feel that this advantage stuff is a complete myth and should be ignored. I want to train at a flying school where i will have a very real chance of employment asap after training, as an instructor, charter, whatever!!! It is not realistic to desire an airline job instantly (from my experience). Like i mentioned i will need an airline job to pay off the huge loan i am about to take out, but it is not really the type of flying that i want to do, and will hopefully move into something else when i have paid off an amount of the loan, if it all goes to plan!!

Thanks so much for the reply, is good to hear that they're at least an average school
:ok:

Keep'em coming

Geez:cool:

[Canada Goose]

Diamond Geezer, sorry in advance for jumping on the back of your posting but you've irked my interest in this topic. I'm looking to do an MEIR conversion early in the new year. I thought I was lined up to do it some other place but they ended up not being able to accommodate me for the timeframe I wanted, which coincides with the end of a contract. As such, I want to move from one to the other as quickly as possible to minimize my downtime between contracts and thus loss of earnings in what will be an expensive time already.

Anyway, enough waffle, I am provisionally penciled in to start my MEIR conversion with Airways Flight Training in Exeter, whom from what I can gather have an excellent reputation. The downside is they are a fair trek away from where I live, but if they are as good as people say then I believe its worth it. However, if there is a good outfit right on my door step then I would give them serious consideration. LPL is about an hour away from where I live and my parents live in south Liverpool so the odd overnighter or even weeks stay is sorted, wife and kids considered ! That all said, I had discounted Ravenair a couple of years ago as a viable FTO based upon bad feedback that I seemed to be observing. Things can, and do change, so before I finally commit to AFT I would be very keen and very much appreciate to hear of fellow ppruners recent experiences. If people wish to remain anonymous then please PM me !

Thanks.

CG. :)

[adwjenk]

Ive flown alot with Ravenair both single and multi engine flying and cant fault them always some one there to help no matter what ur problem is.
The instructors are always willing to chat to the students about anything, are there is always good instructor avalibility.
If ur serious go down and have a look around some one will take u around and answer all your questions you have.
I couldant falt ravenair, yet im just 1 person

ADWJENK

[Canada Goose]

adwjenk, thanks for your comments. I did check them out nearly 2 years ago, but that was with a view to renting SEP's and doing some private flying. One thing that struck me at the time was the poor contact link. There was nobody on the end of a phone line. Messages were left and not returned, or returned days later. That said, when I finally decided to swing by one day after visiting my parents I was let in and by chance bumped into an instructor who seemed a decent enough bloke. We tried several times to get me checked out but due to wx and lack of suitable slots it never happened. I eventually ended up at Shropshire Aero Club some six months later, which for my purposes worked out far better anyway !

Anyway, my point is it seemed very hard to get a hold of anyone !

Cheers,
CG.

[mazzy1026]

I have to agree with Canada on this one.

I did start with Ravenair, but after my first lesson I chose another school. The main reasons were because I felt nobody really cared, and it felt like it was a "pay your money and get out the door" scenario. I too could never get hold of anyone and when leaving lots of messages, nobody would ever come back. The level of instruction was good, this wasnt a problem, but it was all very rushed. No briefings or explanations, just get in, fly and get out.

Just IMHO of course, I may have picked a bad day, and it wasn't for commercial training.

Maz

[Canada Goose]

Thanks for your feedback Maz. Briefings before and afer any instruction, and particuarly an MEIR, are so important. Although I already have a Canadian MEIR I am pretty rusty and flying in the UK is a significantly different so I'd be looking for some spot on instruction in order to keep the hours and thus money down!

Cheers and merry xmas,
CG.


;)

[Eurotraveller]

Hello,

I'm currently engaged in PPL training, trying to do a bit of forward planning and looking into the options for the CPL training. Just wondering if anyone who trained/is training at JD Aviation at Manchester or Ravenair at Liverpool has any comments to make about these schools? I've run a search and there's a fair bit on Liverpool but very little on JD at Manchester...just looking for any opinions on training, aircraft, instructors etc.


Thanks
Eurotraveller

[pponting]

I visited Ravenair today and spoke with their Flying School Manager. They have recently taken a new approach to the school after realising that students felt alone and rushed out.

The building is being revamped, a student 'common room' is being decorated, bookings are done by an operations room manned 12 hours per day etc. All in all it looks better than the local alternative (next door), they also have more PA38 aircraft and I have been informed by a reliable contact that they are much better maintained than other local PA38's. I am sick of paying close to £100 per hour, reporting faulty kit only to return a few weeks later, pay another £100 per hour and the same fault be present!

Anyway, I am not (yet) a member of Ravenair, I will be in the next week or so and will report back, hopefully not eating my words....:uhoh:

[Diamond 'katana' geezer]

pponting,

please do report back i will be very interested to hear what you have to say.

Regards
Geez

[Diamond 'katana' geezer]

Hey pponting,

Did you ever join ravenair?

As i've been asking around the local flying fraternity i always get the most ridiculous of answers, such as "(sharp intake of breathe, shaking of head) i've heard a lot about them!" i ask what they've heard and never get an answer. i have visited twice and find the people and the school very good. So i will go there, but please either stop talking rubbish to wannabe's or at least have something constructive to say (talking about people in general, although it is very true of pprune too)

Thanks again
Geez:cool:

[muttley123]

Diamond Check your PMs Muttley 123

[mark twain]

My experience of Ravenair is as an ex- instructor there, plus I did my CPL and IR with them.

The operation has improved by vast amounts in terms of efficiency and control. The airport is easy to fly in and out of, and the aircraft are well maintained (in house maintenance helps).

I have been involved with them for about three years, and to start with it was hard to give good customer service. This has improved and far greater focus has been placed on the Flying School operation - in the near future the third hanger will provide the base for the flying school and the facilities will be superb. In the meantime extra space and investment has been made in the infrastructure.

In respect to the training, the main IR instructor is a career instructor called Craig Padfield. He is absolutely superb and totally commited to his job - how many instructors offer to get in at 5.30 am to get the aircraft ready for you to fly over for the IR test? He puts himself out to make sure you do well - whatever school you goto you can ask no more than that.

Some comment is made about not having the examiner on site - however I found the short flight over to Leeds a nerve steadier - it also allows you to gauge wind and general conditions. Not a bad thing.

Money wise they are very good to deal with and ethical in the dealings. Jeff Nuttall (the owner) is an ex-Air2000 captain, and the school run the Thomson Flying Club, Air2000 flying Club, The Thomas Cook Flying Club etc etc. you will meet loads of current airline pilots - it is very good for getting contacts.

If you have any more questions please drop me a pm, I would be happy to help where possible.

[muttley123]

Mark Twain Check your PMs Regards Muttley 123

[Cat.S]

Check your PMs Eurotraveller.

[richc]

I could do with a heads up on these guys aswell...Thinking of doing the ME-CPL/IR with them.

Cheers,

RichC

[jolross]

I have very recently passed my CPL/IR form being a very rusty PPL, thanks to the dedication of all at JD Aviation !

I cannot priase the highly enough for their honesty, integrity and professionalism.

GO AND PAY THEM A VISIT !!

[muttley123]

Hi Jolross Check your PMs

Regards Muttley 123

[aztec25]

Same goes for me too.

Have just started the ATPL Ground school with Bristol GS (studying full time) and will need hopefully be starting CPL in New Year. Also planning to do instructor rating. Any views would be welcome.

[J4007]

I invite any comments about this training provider, as I am about to embark on my IR and would like some inside info!!

[EGCC4284]

Craig Padfield is a top guy for IR instructing and puts 110% into everything. Plus he's a good laugh too.

The Aztecs is the best aircraft I've ever flown and if I was a rich man, would have no hesitation in buying one.

I passed my IR skills test first attempt after the 50 hours training and was the first of I think 6 on the run to pass first time.

The is a lot of back seating where you sit in the back whilst others are doing their training and this helps a lot.

We also videoed a lot of flights from the back seat and did copies for everyone to watch which also helped.

Any question then PM me and I will send you my contact numbers for you to give me a call.

Below is a picture of my mate Danny before a flight Please use smaller pictures, and if Ravenair wish to pay for a link we'll gladly quote them a rate.

Scroggs

Regards.

[king rooney]

Just make sure you keep an eye on your headset when you are down there!

[liverbird]

arhhh, man, another cheap joke, its in the past mate.
Where all pissed off over here, we didn’t even make the top ten in robbery’s.:ok:

[maxdrypower]

I cannot comment on the IR course but have been a member of ravenair for some time and did my ppl with them . They are excellent at what they do , they have superb aircraft across the fleet and the instructors are a laugh CFI Primo is a legend , Not had much to do with Craig but he is always very personable and as stated a good giggle . I would recommend ravenair to anyone for any rating . In fact just flew one of their Terrahawks this very morning lovely wonderful wish I could do it every day perhaps even for a living hmmmmmmmm there's a thought

[garywoodrow]

Hi, just a few questions. My Dad has suprised me with a trial lesson from ravenair based at liverpool as i have wanted to be a pilot from a young age. I have looked through the ravenair website to see how much training will cost to be able to apply for a First Officer job at an airline, details below.

Is the training below a good price for all the training? Or can I get it cheaper anywhere else.

Also is there any licence's i have missed out below that I will need?

PPL - £5380
Muli-Engine Piston rating - £2570
CAA IMC Rating - £1905
Night rating - £780
CPL - £5730
JAR ME/IR - £10815
Other Fee's tests etc - £1200 (estimate)
Instrument Rating - (Varies) + £2000

TOTAL - £34,180.00

I have looked into this alot and I cannot find it cheaper anywhere else, but this seems to cheap to me, as for a sponsership with EasyJet cost's £60k for the bond...

____
Gary

[crap pilot]

The price estimates are quite good, just one or two things to add. You did not factor the ATPL exams into this which can be done for between £1500 and £4000 depending if you want to go full time or distance learning, plus 14x£60 for the exams themselves. Also there is no need to do the IMC rating and the multi can be done as part of the CPL saving you some money. There is the matter of hour building which depending on what you want to fly can be as cheap as £10per hour or over £100 per hour and you will need to build around 100 hours after the PPL.

Good luck with the lesson.

[davey147]

Thats a good price for UK training. Why dont you go to the states get the FAA licences then convert them. You'll do all that for less than £25k, you could also look into getting an instructors job whilst your out there to build a few hours.

[High Wing Drifter]

Dont' forget hour building £10-15K!!

Landing fees: £2500+

IMC/IR Approach Fees: £800+

Accomodation here and there: £500+

MCC: £3000

Medical: £500+

ATPL Exams: £3000+

Then I suggest at least 10% contingency.

[garywoodrow]

thanks for all the help, much appreciated. :)

So to get a first officer job you need a fATPL? or just a CPL? i have been told both things by different people

also i can build 80 hours which i would need before i can take the CPL course for £6400. Also the prices i listed do include approach fee's and landing fee's, well, that is what ravenair told me.

[crap pilot]

It all can be done alot cheaper if you are on a tight budget. For example
PPL-£4000ish at OBA
ATPL theory-£1500 Distance learning with CATS
ATPL exams-£840
Hour building-£3000 to £4000 if you buy a cheap share
ME/IR+MEP-£10,000 at aerofan(including accom)
CPL-£3000 at OBA again
MCC-£2000
Frozen ATPL for under £25,000 although i would add another £2-3k on top of that as a safty margin.

Edited to say that you would also need around £2k for things like medical and CAA fees.

[Wellington Bomber]

Gary Woodrow

You need a fatpl to get a first officers job, a cpl does not allow you to fly in clouds, a distinct disadvantage in this country.

Also try telling your passengers that you are delayed due to cloud in the vicinity. It goes along with leaves on the line

[garywoodrow]

ok, thanks for the help again :) I just found this cabair program called First Officer Direct for £55,000, has anyone heard of this or know if its worth it? Ill search around a bit now about it.

[davey147]

Yea thats Cabair's version of Oxfords Waypoint program. I think it has more options available than Oxford. 55k is very expensive, go modualar and you can save 55% on that price.

[D'vay]

you can have a first officers job without a frozen atpl, you could have a first officers job with a comercial + ir hell you could be a captain! You'd be flying freight and you'd be bloody lucky if you pulled it off, but you could.
Crap Pilot, where is this "hour building for a tenner" going on, whether you need to buid hours or not I fancy some of that if it exists and doesn't involve the foolishness of buying a share in an aircraft.
D'vay

[crap pilot]

Crap Pilot, where is this "hour building for a tenner" going on, whether you need to buid hours or not I fancy some of that if it exists and doesn't involve the foolishness of buying a share in an aircraft.
D'vay

There are lots of aircraft that can be flown for £10 per hour. I saw an evens VP1 share for sale recently for around £500 and £25 per month. 10-12 litres of mogas per hour to run it will cost you less than a tenner.
Im not sure what you meen about it being foolish to buy a share, if you want to pay 2 or 3 times more to rent a (usually older and poorer quality) aircraft, then surely that is the more foolish option.

[D'vay]

Apologies,
Maybe not foolish. But should be strongly means tested before any financial commitment is made. Remember, it's al well and good until you need to rebuild an engine.
D'vay

[knockyoak]

Hi

Has anyone ever done CPL training with Ravenair in liverpool? If yes what did they think and have they found success in finding a commercial job as a result of training with Ravenair incomparision to some of the bigger flight schools?

Also, can anyone else recommend any other flying schools within the Northwest which offer CPL training?

Am trying to find out whether spending 50k with a smaller flying school will hinder my chances incomparison to spending the money with a bigger flying school.

thanks

[bluepeely]

Knockyoak... Theres not many in the Northwest mate . Ravenair possibly the best up here but ive heard some good reports about JD Aviation at Manchester. Im with ravenair, there prices are decent enough and training top notch .

[badboy raggamuffin]

The north west is in my opinion crying out for decent CPL/IR training providers. All there is is Raven Air and JD aviation in Manc, who I believe are fairly small scale operations. Given the large population in the area ud have thought there'd be a market.

Most trainie pilots I know from the NW have grudgingly had to move down south to get hold of decent training. If a "large scale" training outfit, similar to eg Stapleford or Cabair was set up somewhere like Hawarden or Liverpool, they'd make a killing I reckon.

[BYMONEK]

Hi All,

55K is a lot of money whichever way you look at it but a course like that does have one big advantage. Consistency. It's an intensive course ( which may not suit all) that will allow you to complete the training in the shortest time possible. Shorter time means sooner in the job market which means sooner you pick up the salary to pay it off. Better still, look into an Airline sponsorship if you can, regardless of the 60k or whatever bond. If you land a jet job with 200 hours, You wont be leaving for the first 4-5 years anyway, so the bond is somewhat immaterial.

As an aside, I started out my flying career with Ravenair back in '86,when they had a hangar on Manchester Airport southside. Yes, where rwy 24L is now! Geff was there then along with a guy called Chris Entwhistle who was a First Officer for Britannia and I found Ravenair very professional. Flying out of a major Airport like that was also a confidence booster although it did equate to extra expense. After approx 40+ hours of PPL training, I managed to get a sponsorship with Britannia which involved a very considerable at that time 8K non refundable deposit and another 8K paid from my salary over 5 years upon joining the B737 fleet as a wide eyed Second Officer. Twenty years later,and the ripe 'old' age of forty, as a Captain on the B777 I am fortunate enough to earn that amount per month.

Yes, it was worth all the hard work and expense. I don't envy what you guys ( and girls!) have to go through but if you want it as much as I wanted it back then, it will be worth it. Would I do it all again? You bet I would!

Good luck to you and best wishes in you future careers :ok:

BYMONEK

[bluepeely]

Wahey! A happy pilot who has a sucess story and makes money.... You sir should be stuffed and mounted in a museum. Well done theres not many of you on here :D

[Adj]

Hi all
I already have a fATPL under my belt (CPL/IR to the pedantic!)
As many will know all the family and friends ask if i can take them up for a flight etc
I haven't looked into this too much as yet but flying out of liverpool would be my ideal location as its close to home for family and friends.
My question therefore goes to those people who might have been in a similar situation or can offer some advice as to the a/c available, procedures neccessary to take one (ie if a check ride might be needed) and costs (whether everything is included in the price)

All info that is USEFUL is welcomed..

thanks

Adam :ok:

[horsebox]

As others have said, ravenair and JD aviation are the 2 CPL/ir schools in the North west. I did a cpl with JD last year and found that although a small outfit, they are very thorough and were good value. Mr JD is a SATCO and ex ravenair aoc pilot, there is a wealth of experience to learn from. I know plenty of people who have trained at ravenair for cpl/ir and were very happy also.

Main drawback I saw at Ravenair is that initial parts of cpl and IR are done on a Tomahawk, which I think is of limited value in getting you used to a more complex aircraft that you sit the test in. I understand they are getting a new fnptII sim shortly so that should help a good deal.

The main things I looked for in a cpl ir school were financial stability, aircraft availability, speed and continuity of training and gut feeling on meeting instructors and the setup in general.

[scroggs]

Wahey! A happy pilot who has a sucess story and makes money.... You sir should be stuffed and mounted in a museum. Well done theres not many of you on here

That's because this is a forum for wannabes who, by definition, have not yet got a job. It's not for those who have already done it - though they are welcome to pass on their experiences.

Scroggs