Whirlwind Helicopter

[OHOPE]

Did any mark of Whirlwind actually carry a torpedo and what type of torpedo was it intended to carry ?

[BEagle]

Yes, the piston-engined Whirlwind HAS. 7 in 1956. It was the Fleet Air Arm's first anti-submarine helicopter and carried but a single 'homing torpedo'.

It clattered along at a max IAS of about 95 knots - and had a range of only 290 nm at a stunning 75 knots.......

[airborne_artist]

I'm impressed Beags - since when did you become an authority on RN RW trivia/history?

[BEagle]

Well, no-one else had bothered to answer......and OHOPE obviously hadn't found the excellent naval aircraft historical website.

Besides, I do remember those things clattering around the West Country!

I last saw an airworthy piston engined Whirlwind in 1975 or '76 at RAF Brawdy when I was a student on 234 Sqn. No idea where it was from - it was midnight blue and marked 'Royal Navy'. I had thought the piston engined version was long since extinct.

[Cornish Jack]

We still had a piston Whirlwind at Boscombe in the mid 70's. A 'one-armed paperhanger machine' if ever there was one!! Brian S (mentioned from time to time in these columns) used to do a reverse hover taxy, at speed, doing figure-of-eights, as a demonstration coordination exercise .... now THAT is a coordination exercise:ok:
All very well to be 'sniffy' about the Whirlwind's performance, but there are quite a few people around who wouldn't be here without the Whirlwind's SAR efforts. Our scramble times in the '10' would leave today's high tech machines well behind

[G-CPTN]

The reverse hover taxi must have been an acquired skill, as when the Whirlwind was first introduced as SAR in place of the Sycamore at RAF Acklington, the crews were moaning that overshoots meant a go-around instead of just backing-up. I guess a new craft requires time before the crews can learn the tricks . . .

[BEagle]

Wasn't there one case of a '10 scrambling and getting airborne between the time the pilot ejected and him landing in the Og? Such that his feet barely got wet?

Thoroughly concur that the sight of the friendly yellow Whirlwind must have been most welcome indeed to many survivors :ok:

Was the Boscombe piston aircraft perhaps the one I saw at Brawdy?

[Pontius Navigator]

Our local scrap man had a Whirlwind in 1986 ish, can't remember how it was powered but he used to fly around his small plot (:)) and practise for the slalam (?) with an underslung load.

[Rigga]

Well, actually there was an RN Series 3 HAR Mk 9 that was the Gnome engined version, complete with twin Tubes underneath - it was a bit of a surprise to climb into, or onto, when you were used to the Mk10!
I don't know what it fired from them, or how successfully, but they won't have been rocket tornadoes! (oops!)
I have seen one at Duxford I think! Ugly Blue thing.
Yes - I do like aircraft... and No! I am NOT a spotter!
I was taken for a flight in a Tiger Moth there once so did the museum thing too.

PN - Your scrapman wouldn't have been in Lincs would he?

[Pontius Navigator]

PN - Your scrapman wouldn't have been in Lincs would he?

Of course, Windley by name.

[Rigga]

Windley was still rumoured to have his Mk12 (Ex Queens Flt) in the mid nineties - but when asked about it - he went all quiet!
I think it went to rot in one of his sheds.
He was also rumoured to have several large/infamous crash wrecks on his premises.

[jeppsbore]

Rigga
G-RWWW as the MK12 was registered in civvy street, enjoyed a few years on the display circuit mid nineties in the capable hands of ex Bristows Derek Jones. Aircraft now retired and residing in the helicopter museum at Weston.
Also there was a piston powered version (HAS Mk.7, XK940 I believe) lurking in a hangar at Redhill about the same time, when the time came for its journey to Weston i seem to recall that it managed to place itself on the back of a low loader. Wether this could have been the last flight of a piston powered whirlwind or a ground run that got a bit light on its wheels I will leave up to you. :ooh:

[charliegolf]

Great 230 line book entry from way back when, along the lines of:

Squadron of Whirlies standing down, or moving station or summat, and the station padre gets to say his bit. Gets up, and tells all and sundry that 230 had proved, in his opinion, a total failure!

Sharp intakes all round, and stunned silence- everyone waiting for an explanation.

Padre goes on to say that:

"In the Bible it says that Methusela went up into heaven in a whirlwind. And I never even got a left hand seat!"

Assembly breathes out, all is well.

CG

[Wunper]

Some pictures from the family album taken during the period of the first Mk7 IFTU in 1957.
B&W shot clearly shows the cutout for the Mk30 18" "Homing torpedo" that weighed in at 645Lb.
Machine blighted by the highly unreliable Alvis Leonides Major Engine which did not take kindly to being made to run for the purposes of the helicopter application in the opposite direction it was originally designed to. This de-optimised the location of all the oil galleries in the crank etc. The RN had 129 Mk7 of which 79 were written off in service. Weymouth bay is littered with them..
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d107/wunper/WhirlwindHAS7_2CV.jpg
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d107/wunper/Scan80066.jpg

[WorkingHard]

Pontious Navigator, the ex QF Whirlwind is indeed where you guess. I had the pleasure of flying in it a few years ago but RW was not the handling pilot at the time. It resides with a lot of "wrecks" including a great deal of stuff from Lockerbie I believe, althought it may have all oxidised by now.

[RileyDove]

The Redhill HAS.7 was acquired by a friend up in Norfolk and we endeavoured to keep her airworthy for a short while. At the same time the HCC.12 became available at Redhill too - she was slowly getting derelict . She was purchased and ,oved to Norfolk. On inspection we found damage on the tailboom which had been caused by over zealous removal of corrosion. Due to the difficulties in finding a servicable replacement tailboom - the owner decided to ground her and offer her to the Helicopter Museum so they could both be preserved in the U.K.

[Mick Christie]

Im in Australia, i have a westland whirlwind helicopter (never going to fly) with the alvis leonides major radial engine (it will run one day), possibly the only one in australia.
I cant find much info on them either.
Any documents are appreciated.
Ive tried uploading pics but wont link?

-----------------------------------------

Until you have a posting history you don't have access to private messaging and adding urls or photos

[Fargo Boyle]

Don't know if they can help but Historic Helicopters in Somerset have an airworthy Whirly amongst others
Historic Helicopters - Welcome To Historic Helicopters (https://www.historichelicopters.com/Pages/1/Home.html)

[NutLoose]

Also the Leonides is in the Pembroke that the guys in St Athan look after, https://www.horizonaircraftservices.com/

[Mogwi]

Ah yes, I remember it well! Max load was rumoured to be a winch operator plus a small dog. Had an exhaust manifold fall off in the hover over the bay one day and several times had the engine continue to chunter on for a few minutes after shut-down.

Great fun revving up the donk to engage the sprag clutch to turn the rotor but not so much fun when the rotor head detached in flight😟. Had a partial tail rotor control failure during a towering t/o on one of my first night solos. That was fun and resulted in a rather untidy running landing on the very dark grass.

I was only little then!

Mog

[Ninthace]

I remember going to work at Collingwood and seeing the SAR Whirlwind at Daedalus sitting across the perimeter hedge having managed to lop its own tail off on the approach.

[NutLoose]

I remember the late C**** T***** telling me of being a formation flight when he said the rest of the formation suddenly appeared to climb rapidly closely followed by the realisation his engine had failed.


Cosford 2017 Gnome powered flier as mentioned above.

https://live.staticflickr.com/4197/34450228763_0552c999f8_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/UufqMr)Positioning into wind, the old fashioned way-1 (https://flic.kr/p/UufqMr) by Tony Taylor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142550108@N08/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/4254/34415952364_565b92ff86_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/UrdKB3)Simply Timeless Westland Whirlwind HAR10-1 (https://flic.kr/p/UrdKB3) by Tony Taylor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142550108@N08/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/4246/34872804420_505f2b4172_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/V8AeNC)Simply Timeless Westland Whirlwind HAR10 (https://flic.kr/p/V8AeNC) by Tony Taylor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142550108@N08/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/4266/35219899296_8e2cd47175_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/VEgc23)Simply Timeless Westland Whirlwind HAR10 (https://flic.kr/p/VEgc23) by Tony Taylor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142550108@N08/), on Flickr

[NutLoose]

Pontious Navigator, the ex QF Whirlwind is indeed where you guess. I had the pleasure of flying in it a few years ago but RW was not the handling pilot at the time. It resides with a lot of "wrecks" including a great deal of stuff from Lockerbie I believe, althought it may have all oxidised by now.

Left side of the fenced off 747 wreckage 2018

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/wreck-lockerbie-plane-claimed-life-13416790


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1894x1227/image_101b5d9bf814f5c64127ba95fc0213c6ee3c5ab8.jpeg

[NutLoose]

Additionally, pic

https://www.flickr.com/photos/egwu/20165316156

Westland Whirlwind in RAF/UN marks from her days serving in Cyprus.



XP328 can also be seen behind. Both of these Whirlwinds have been at Tattserhall Thorpe (north of Coningsby) since at least the 1990s, probably a little earlier.



They have recently been moved to a more photogenic spot.



XP328 and XP329 left for North Somercotes sometime in 2020 or 2021.


latest on them and what looks like an excellent rebuild this year. Lots of pics.

https://www.fightercontrol.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=203561

[gsa]

Our local scrap man had a Whirlwind in 1986 ish, can't remember how it was powered but he used to fly around his small plot (:)) and practise for the slalam (?) with an underslung load.

Roger took the whirlwind to the world helicopter championships in 86 at Castle Ashby, Sure it was a turbine one, he had another that had a fair bit of corrosion, got to walk around his place and he had an interesting collection tucked away. Chris Billings flew it and he was crew. Certainly a good character.

[Oldlae]

Roger bought three W/W Mk 10 from 32 Sqdn at Northolt, I put them on the register using the documentation for the civvy W/W WS55 Series 3. Since then the CAA considers them as different aircraft despite the MOD Parts Manual quoting both civvy and MOD part numbers.

[Cornish Jack]

Nutloose - your #22 pics ... oh the nostalgia :sad:
Don't know what the winchman's background was, but some 'how to operate in a bo'sun's chair' lessons are in order !
For the wrinklies - gone but not forgotten ...

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1940x2000/whirlwind_wv_18a7fedecb1ffa79f5784cf836d475c04adecb12.jpg

[NutLoose]

Cornish J if you want to download any of them as a wallpaper they are in this folder, open the Cosford 2017 one

https://www.flickr.com/photos/142550108@N08/albums

select the picture you want and view it, select the arrow facing down to a horizontal line on the right side below the picture
select all sizes, pick one of the largest, open it and right click on it when its opened, then select set as background, you can then size it to suit, if set as background is greyed out wait a little until it flly opens and then it will allo you to set it.


The "person" they were winching was a dummy..

[ShyTorque]

I trained on the penultimate RAF Whirlwind basic course. It was actually a very large aircraft for a basic trainer, a bit like flying a small bungalow from the Dormer window. But it was a good lead in to the Wessex 5 as an advanced trainer!

For years I flew almost every working day over a dilapidated Whirlwind located in a small clearing in a wood, I think it was a paintball adventure place. Much later I discovered it was actually the very airframe in which I’d carried out my first helicopter solo and my first night solo. By then it had sadly gone, probably for scrap.

[Cornish Jack]

Nutloose - many thanks for that. Super pics ... brain fade on the download sequence so went the Ctrl./Prtscn/Paint/Paste route.
The "person" they were winching was a dummy..
Ah, yes - that figures !:ok:

[Herod]

Shy Torque. When was that? I did the Whirlwind course at Tern Hill in the second half of '66. We did the basic 40 hour course on the Sioux, then 60 hours on the Whirlwind. I don't know when they finished using them. As you say, a good trainer for those going onto the Wessex. Wessex 2 in my case (RAF)

[WE Branch Fanatic]

Yes, the piston-engined Whirlwind HAS. 7 in 1956. It was the Fleet Air Arm's first anti-submarine helicopter and carried but a single 'homing torpedo'.

It clattered along at a max IAS of about 95 knots - and had a range of only 290 nm at a stunning 75 knots.......


It also lacked the power to carry both the dipping sonar and the torpedo, and neither did the Wessex that succeeded it - the later Sea King and subsequent Merlin did. But all technologies have to start somewhere. For whatever reason, probably the ability to deploy a dipping sonar, the ASW Whirlwind displaced the ASW Gannet from RN carrier decks by the early sixties.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x683/1200825_large_78db9ca64d10728f596c3fccd89395f863ecdb03.jpg

[ShyTorque]

Shy Torque. When was that? I did the Whirlwind course at Tern Hill in the second half of '66. We did the basic 40 hour course on the Sioux, then 60 hours on the Whirlwind. I don't know when they finished using them. As you say, a good trainer for those going onto the Wessex. Wessex 2 in my case (RAF)

I graduated from the Whirlwind 10 in the first half of 1979 so I would think the RAF final course finished later that same year. No Sioux flying for us, it was straight onto the Whirlwind 10 for 110 hours and then around 35 hours on the (ex RN) Wessex 5. I remember it was important to select "Rockets to ripple" on the armament panel for every solo sortie in those days. Not that we carried rockets, mind you! :cool:

[Herod]

Thanks ShyTorque. I should think the Whirlwind was a handful ab initio. At least we had a few hours on a simpler and more forgiving machine. The Wessex conversion, at Odiham, was about 30 hours

[Rigga]

Roger bought three W/W Mk 10 from 32 Sqdn at Northolt, I put them on the register using the documentation for the civvy W/W WS55 Series 3. Since then the CAA considers them as different aircraft despite the MOD Parts Manual quoting both civvy and MOD part numbers.
I believe that civil registered WS-55 Whirlwinds had a second hydraulic system.

[Rigga]

Nutloose - your #22 pics ... oh the nostalgia :sad:
Don't know what the winchman's background was, but some 'how to operate in a bo'sun's chair' lessons are in order !
For the wrinklies - gone but not forgotten ...

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1940x2000/whirlwind_wv_18a7fedecb1ffa79f5784cf836d475c04adecb12.jpg
Is that weather vane on the Norfolk Coast?

[ShyTorque]

Thanks ShyTorque. I should think the Whirlwind was a handful ab initio. At least we had a few hours on a simpler and more forgiving machine. The Wessex conversion, at Odiham, was about 30 hours

Looking back I still think it surprising that we had to complete a 45 minute sortie of solo engine off landings on the ab ignitio Whirlwind course! We also had to fly an underslung load solo, with a brave staff crewman down in the cabin.

As far as the Wessex 5 was concerned, Shawbury had major serviceability problems during my time on the advanced course. It took five attempts to get my first solo on type done, all delays were caused by u/s aircraft*.

I only actually completed 30 hours of the usual 35 then got sent off to fly the Puma instead.

*I deny all responsibility for the aircraft getting broken ;)

[John Eacott]

Looking back I still think it surprising that we had to complete a 45 minute sortie of solo engine off landings on the ab ignition Whirlwind course! We also had to fly an underslung load solo, with a brave staff crewman down in the cabin.



Underslung load? We had to trawl a Sproule net solo under the direction of the fearless (or fatalistic) crewman downstairs; in my case CPO Mooney, whose daughter I was taking out when the opportunity arose 😇


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/720x529/mk7_sproule_net_700h_lee_1957_01_53f3376a5d87e2113cab19e3381 ce80cde7defcf.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/720x474/mk7_sproule_net_700h_lee_1957_02_5de8faa19a4785e01be9b67584a 1bb97b58f1a08.jpg

[Saint Jack]

Kharg Island, Iran, around 1973. Leo deVigne (spelling?) ex-Westland pilot, arrives to give a Wirlwind conversion to a young American pilot who has just joined Bristow Helicopters. During a post-flight de-brief we can hear voices are rising then Leo says, so that all can hear, “Don’t tell me what the Flight Manual says, I wrote it!” Later, Leo points out to us engineers/mechanics, “The helicopter doesn’t have a clock, the regulations state that a public transport helicopter must have a clock.” He was correct.

[HeliAl]

Roger took the whirlwind to the world helicopter championships in 86 at Castle Ashby, Sure it was a turbine one, he had another that had a fair bit of corrosion, got to walk around his place and he had an interesting collection tucked away. Chris Billings flew it and he was crew. Certainly a good character.
I flew the MK12 at the Heli Champs, great fun to fly even in manual after a gov failure.

[ShyTorque]

I flew the MK12 at the Heli Champs, great fun to fly even in manual after a gov failure.


That brings back memories of hovering the Mk10 in manual throttle over Holyhead harbour, during SAR training. The staff were made of stout stuff, having to put trust in their students. Looking back I can imagine how quickly it could have all gone very badly wrong.

[treadigraph]

In the 1970s when I used to occasionally inhabit the spectators' gallery at Gatwick, one could often see a Bristow Whirlwind or two bashing the circuit at Redhill, presumably schooling Bell 47 graduates rather than ab initio students. As far as I remember from surreptitious visits to Redhill, one was piston, the other two turbines. They never seemed to fly during my visits. (A very belated Thank You Tiger Club for always letting us spotty teenagers roam your hangar which usually meant we then had tacit approval to be on what was otherwise a rather unfriendly aerodrome!)

[Rigga]

Thanks ShyTorque. I should think the Whirlwind was a handful ab initio. At least we had a few hours on a simpler and more forgiving machine.

Speaking as an ex-Rigga,
During 1975/6, several Instructors took me on their SCTs and I was taught how to ‘fly’ a Whirlwind - minus the Take-off and landings of course! I think they must’ve had a bet that, if they could teach an LAC Rigga, they could teach anyone. For me, this was a very enjoyable experience, I must’ve done 20 hours or so… Hovering into the corners of Chetwynd.
To go through the learning experience is only stressful if you know something different or if pressure is applied to your performance. Learning any skill on any machine is a hard experience - passing your driving test is a great example.

[Cornish Jack]

Rigga - re. the weather vane, Norfolk coast indeed. Initially it had main rotor blades but the blade cuffs weren't man enough for North Sea gales ! ... the 'Jesus Nut', on the other hand has remained intact !.:ok:
Herod - I think we have previously mentioned co-location at Tern Hill. I was with CFS (H) from 66 to 71 (66 to 68/9 at Valley.)
Shytorque - 'computer out' with the Whirly was always ;interesting. We had a Master Pilot come to us, who had previously done a tour on the piston version. Initially, his hovering was 'variable' ... until he went 'computer out' ! He reckoned he had problems adjusting to the 'scan' without having to constantly reference the rrpm.

[ShyTorque]

When it came to just poling the aircraft with everything working, a Whirlwind was fairly benign due to its rather sluggish response and inertia (hence the RAF requirement for basic students to fly a full sortie of solo engine off landings).

The Gnome turbine engine was “fernickerty” but normally controlled by a basic fuel flow computer. “Computer out” was more difficult because manually controlling the engine added another dimension, especially in view of the sluggish engine response. One had to anticipate the effect on the main rotor response, more so than with a piston engine. The effect is similar to “turbo lag” on a car engine.

Coupled with the lack of a cyclic trim system, and no navigation equipment apart from Decca (which was really designed for ships and very complicated to interpret at the best of times) it made the aircraft hard work to operate; the term “one armed paper hanger” was appropriate to aircraft of that generation. I still tend to naturally carry my chart or PLOG under my right arm to this day, rather than put it down in the cockpit…. old habits die hard.

The Whirlwind was being taken out of front line service early in my time. I held at an Whirlwind equipped SAR base for a few weeks in the 1970s, which was the main catalyst for my desire to fly helicopters, having been allowed to attempt to fly one, which I did, after a fashion, under the auspices of Gerry Hermer. He got me to land it, despite the antics of the ground marshaller, who threw away his bats in mock disgust :O.

I still hold those SAR pilots (and their winch operators and winch men) in very high regard - single pilot, over the sea, day and night, in a totally unstable and unstabilised, underpowered single engined aircraft. I did go on to become an SAR pilot, but thankfully in far more capable helicopters.

[Rigga]

CJ - Well, it seems you live opposite to my recent (23rd Oct 21) Son-In-Laws’s Grandad!

I saw your weather vane some months ago and have already drawn designs to make a copy! - having noted the lack of rotors I aim for a ‘representation’ of rotor blades even for my inshore location near NWI.

I was there 1975 to closure and moved to Shawbury til 1980. I believe you speak of M/Plt Alec R*****, who became the UTP for Tern Hill and Shawbury til his retirement (1978 ish).

[NutLoose]

This could be a whirlwind romance ? ;)

[cafesolo]

Shy: I do not claim to be more than an average pilot, BUT I disagree with you ref Whirlwind 10. I started with 50 hours Sycamore then qualified as Helo pilot after 57 hours Whirlwind; after Sycamore I found it a delight to fly. Granted no trimmers, but if pulled or pushed to a new attitude all that was needed was to quickly move the stick to "no feeling",Disengage stick from spring loading,then back to (approximately) previous position and release Disengage button. I'm almost sure that we referred to the device as cyclic trim. Eventually clocked 690 hours, never a cough from a Gnome, tho I did have a rotor blade shed some skin at the outboard end -- thought I'd just taken flak,so Mayday and precautionary landing: the Westland rep was flown out to me and just bandaged it with insulting tape.

[WE Branch Fanatic]

Since the original post referred to the naval ASW role, they might be interested in this old graphic.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/454x650/aircraft_20manufacturers_westland_1961_15823_1c5d23deb585049 ec7ab36a1f9477bf94b7c43c8.jpg

The helicopter with dipping sonar was a game changer, which explains why it quickly replaced the Gannet in the carrierborne ASW role.

[Cornish Jack]

cafesolo - You have me puzzled.! You appeared to be referring to the Whirly in the piece from "Granted no trimmers ...", but that refers to the Sycamore - my time on that goes back to Aden in the mid 50s !
Similarly little trouble with the Gnome save for one wet winching in Holyhead harbour with John Dixon (sp?) when there was a slight change of noise on the run-in and, once the lift was complete, John announced that he had had to complete the pickup 'computer out'..
Re the lack of trim on the Whirlwind, Keith "Punch-up" Panter" (as he was known) disliked the lack of 'feel' on the cyclic, so he used to wind the fore and aft and lateral frictions up to maximum when he was on shift - so he could "feel what was going on". This was at Thorney and the 'Trappers' came on their annual jaunt and their Boss decided to do some CT. The take-off and departure were 'unusual' as the Boss found out about the trims, the 'hard way'. This tale was passed on to me much later, as Keith had moved on before I was posted in.

[NutLoose]

Shy: I do not claim to be more than an average pilot, BUT I disagree with you ref Whirlwind 10. I started with 50 hours Sycamore then qualified as Helo pilot after 57 hours Whirlwind; after Sycamore I found it a delight to fly. Granted no trimmers, but if pulled or pushed to a new attitude all that was needed was to quickly move the stick to "no feeling",Disengage stick from spring loading,then back to (approximately) previous position and release Disengage button. I'm almost sure that we referred to the device as cyclic trim. Eventually clocked 690 hours, never a cough from a Gnome, tho I did have a rotor blade shed some skin at the outboard end -- thought I'd just taken flak,so Mayday and precautionary landing: the Westland rep was flown out to me and just bandaged it with insulting tape.


We used to have a Sycamore parked outside 240 OCU that Taff Walker ( Mr Wessex ) had in his logbook. Red Bull still have one flying I think.

[Cornish Jack]

Rigga - Interesting coincidence !
The odd layout of our place means that your s-i-l's Grandad could be Maurice, Paul, Ernie or even Mike. If it's Mile, I made another version for him (or specifically, his wife) as a thank you for their doing shopping during lockdown.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/img_0102a_70d4da4b1fe218d9c67f3b46e9ac8ded80c2ba8d.jpg
This Mk is specifically appropriate for Mike's wife.

[NutLoose]

That’s sweet.

[Rigga]

Rigga - Interesting coincidence !
The odd layout of our place means that your s-i-l's Grandad could be Maurice, Paul, Ernie or even Mike. If it's Mile, I made another version for him (or specifically, his wife) as a thank you for their doing shopping during lockdown.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/img_0102a_70d4da4b1fe218d9c67f3b46e9ac8ded80c2ba8d.jpg
This Mk is specifically appropriate for Mike's wife.

It’s Maurice. And maybe I should just place an order for a weathervane from you - excellent work!!

[lauriebe]

Additionally, pic

https://www.flickr.com/photos/egwu/20165316156



latest on them and what looks like an excellent rebuild this year. Lots of pics.

https://www.fightercontrol.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=203561

XP328 in happier times. Just off the beach at RAAF Butterworth, Mid-66.

https://live.staticflickr.com/7345/9347430981_2d2b27e19f_o.jpgIMG_0108 by Laurence Bean, on Flickr

[retreating blade]

I well remember my SAR FHT at Valley during which Bill Mceakern (Sp?) had me doing computer out downwind decks on the MCU Pinnace. Still trying to unlock my left hand!

[Old-Duffer]

Now there's a name from the distant past. Bill, Tim Carbis, Chick Witten-Hayden, Lofty Marshall and a guy whose name I'm trying to trawl from deep memory were amongst the RAF rotary wing GREATS. It was by their efforts and achievements that helicopters went from 'stay away - career bad' to the place to be in the space of a decade.
Old Duffer

[ancientaviator62]

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/703x480/hercules_dd_sar_2_small__f5f575c8e00692f6d9d36f59adfb852e774 1dad8.jpg
DD in the 'oggin 'off Changi. My view from the launch after being winched aboard.

[sycamore]

aa62- sent you a PM...?

[Herod]

Bill McEachern did my Valley training, and Chick Witten-Hayden did my FHT on the Whirlwind at the end of the Tern Hill course. The FHT was 19th Oct '66. The aircraft, XP 345 is still about I believe, in the museum at Flixton. Memories.

[ancientaviator62]

sycamore, I replied ! Looks like there is a problem so if you send me another PM with your e-mail we may be able to establish two way contact.

[Old-Duffer]

My post 57: The name I was looking for was: BILL BARRELL

O D

[sycamore]

The pic at #55 of XP328 shows it as a 110 Sqdn a/c with the `dustbin `air filter fitted .It was formerly coded `B` on 225 Sqdn before
disbanding in Nov`65..It added about 100 lbs extra weight,and brought the C of G further forward,and if it got wet, it had a bypass that could be opened,but only before you got wet,otherwise a `slug` of mud would go down the engine...so we flew with it open ...
At # 58,I don`t remember wearing an immersion suit on 103 Sdn. as I did SAR at both Seletar and occasionally Butterworth,only an LSJ ,and that `blooody uncomfortable` back-pack dinghy...I remember once doing training /bumbling,probably ,with the winchman in the water,that a large `Vulcan` sized shadow appeared underneath the aircraft,,,the winch-op frantically shouted `UP,UP UP` as he winched in...from a somewhat heigher perspective it appeared to be a pretty big Manta Ray..!!
Over 20 years flying helos I had 1600+ hrs on 92 Whirlwinds of different Mks, 1xMk3-(Wright 1300 Cyclone),5xMk7(Alvis Leonides),1xMk9 (Gnome),the rest were Mk10s...one hydraulic failure,3 f/landings(2 engine failures,1 t/r failure) ...
From further back in the thread,I flew XJ729 the day after RAF Whirlwinds were `grounded` officially,as we had the aircraft at HQSAR Wing,and were doing a blade change on it,but `clipped` a `tip` with the tracking flag,so it was replaced overnight...Next day tracking done successfully,but `somehow we got a dose of ground resonance, recovery required an immediate leap into the air ,for 5 minutes``...OC SAR Wing Eng was not amused...so we had a "meaningful discussion" in my office...I had the coffee and biscuits....
Anyway,here`s one I prepared earlier in my `miss-spent `youth.....rebuilt and flying a month later..
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/309x480/tail_less_85ff08202f6e538fd90ba0ac240fc7c3479596c2.jpg

[teeteringhead]

That brings back memories of hovering the Mk10 in manual throttle over Holyhead harbour, during SAR training. I can remember verbatim and in its entirety a debrief I received after a dual Holyhead Harbour trip in my SAR Trg (26th February 1970 in XP 338)....

"Well, it wasn't bad enough to chop you! It wasn't even quite bad enough to refly ...... but it was F***in' awful!!!"

Whereupon I was sent solo (!!) with the caveat "..and don't take the computer out!" .... like I was going to!

Unsurprisingly, I went SH (or SRT as it was called in them days.)

[Cornish Jack]

Herod - we enjoyed 'drums' together on the 21 September 66 !!
Bill McEachern took over from John Dixon and we served together again on 1563Flt/84 Sqn Akrotiri. Bill set something of a record for the Whirlwind for endurance. He took one solo on CT and flew to South Stack, selected computer out and wound the rotor rpm down to the 190s and slope-soared !!! He was so long away that we were getting concerned.
So many names spring to mind from that period (60s/70s)MP Nobby Clarke, Dave Whitely, (?) Spikins, at Valley, Chick W-H , George Puddy (my boss at TH and 84, Frank Barnes, Cedric Simons at TH.
One of the surprises at Th when I arrived, was recognising the boss of the Instructors Flt/Sqn - Pete Rover, then a Lt Cdr, last seen as an RAF Flt Lt Navigator on Valettas in Aden.- a small (and changeable) world.

[TCAS FAN]

............A very belated Thank You Tiger Club for always letting us spotty teenagers roam your hangar which usually meant we then had tacit approval to be on what was otherwise a rather unfriendly aerodrome!)

Remember a profusion of blue signs something along the lines of "Aircraft Spotters not admitted"? Never bothered my mates and me, always got to log everything on the airfield and in the hangars, was never chucked out.

[exMudmover]

Ah, happy memories of the pre-Harrier Whirlwind training at Ternhill in ’71. To get us fast-jet types used to ‘hoovering’ they gave us 6 hours of dual helicoptering, ending up with engine-off landings, and operating into and out of small woodland clearings.



After no more than half an hour of briefing on how it worked we were each issued with a rather jaundiced-looking QHI. Having carried out the boring bits, he cranked up, took off, and moved a discreet distance from the parking lot, handing over control immediately in the hover.



Great Sport! Because we didn’t have to bother with all the technical aspects, checklists, emergencies, etc., we could just concentrate on the handling.

[Herod]

O-D. Bill Barrell's name is/was on the side of XP 299, on display at Hendon. I came across it at Cosford way back (1990?) . It shocked me, since it was the first time I'd seen an aeroplane I'd actually flown (25.10.66) exhibited in a museum. Now, I accept it as a matter of course. As an old friend once said "Anno Domini, old chap"

[Old-Duffer]

Re post 65: It's - Brendan - Spikens, sadly no longer with us. Nor is George Puddy

And turning to TTH and computer out in the WW10, a chap called Brian Bultitude (who was sadly wiped out on the M6), would fly much of the sortie computer out. His rationale was if you can fly it without the computer, you can do it with it 'In'.

O - D

[NutLoose]

What a fascinating thread, and also a tribute to those no longer with us, but not forgotten, I salute them all.

[ShyTorque]

The French exchange officer QHI who instructed at Shawbury on the Whirlwind 10 during my time as a student (Jean V) had flown most of his time in early Alouettes and had apparently never flown an aircraft with a fuel computer before (and he spoke very little English). His students hardly ever got to fly computer in!

However, after one student engine off landing, which had unusually been flown “computer out”, a slight mishandling of the flight idle stop/throttle combination when trying to get the Gnome engine wound up again from ground idle (rather than the usual flight idle) resulted in a spectacular plume of flame from the jet pipe and an unserviceable engine. A new entry appeared in the Flying Order Book within hours, banning computer out EOLs.

By coincidence, I worked for a short time with the previously mentioned Bren Spikins, in the Far East, when we were both civilian pilots. I was unaware that he was no longer with us.

[Old-Duffer]

S T
Bren was a QHI on the HKAAF at one stage.

Ternhill story circa 1964: Saturday night in the bar lots of studs, many staff and ladies. QHI with low centre of gravity is telling a joke about the French and is standing with his back to another group in which the French wife of a Wing Co on JCSS was present. She clearly found the punch line too much to take and took off a stiletto heeled shoe and belted said QHI with it (v painful) QHI turns to stop the assault and grabs the lady's arms. Wg Co sees his wife wrestling and punches QHI - all this happening faster than I can write it.

Result: Wg Co sent to 'graveyard slot' at Cosford and QHI gets 2 1/2 years in Hong Kong !!! famous low CofG comes in handy in mess rugby (which is fairly close to QHIs real name but there were lots with same monica in rotary world, just as there were Prices)

Old Duffer

[Old-Duffer]

Let’s have a little trundle through some of the Whirlwind names not already mentioned.

Peter Wilson
Geoff Cocks

John W Price, Henry Trevor Price, John P Price

Charlie Very

Geoff Cairns

Geof Bradshaw (note spelling)

Situ

Ron King

Sycamore (who has a real name!!)

John Dicken

John C Pate USAF

Bill Easterbrook

Bransby Roland Oliver (Bill to most)

Don Sissons

Les Fuggle (M Nav and probably the first licensed crewman)

I’m not sure if I can include John Dowling ‘cause he had a Dragonfly, Sycamore, Belvedere pedigree.

Tony Edwards

Chunky Lord

That’ll do for starters

O-D

[Herod]

Dave Hurley. Have we mentioned the famous Tarwid yet?

[ShyTorque]

S T
Bren was a QHI on the HKAAF at one stage.
Old Duffer

Yes, he was.

[Old-Duffer]

Ah yes Alec Tarwid - he had a very good send off from rotaries of a certain age. Whilst on Poles, not to forget Z Z and his brother

OD

[spekesoftly]

O-D has already mentioned Bill Barrell. I remember him from when he was OC 84 Sqn B Flight Nicosia in the early 1970s. Other Whirlwind pilots that I recall on 84 B:-

Mike Lloyd
Dave Turner
Keith Dunning
Dave Cardus
John Garnons Williams
Brian Tomlins
Barry Hobkirk
Nigel Furness
Jim Bellingall
Chester Armstrong
Hamish ?

[Cornish Jack]

Ah !, the nostalgia of names. Very few of those above that I don't recognise. Brian Bultitude gave me my introductory Whirlwind ride in April 64, at TH, I then went on to S&R training at Valley - Nobby Clarke, Stan Sollitt, Trev Trewanack, Gene Batten, Ricky Windon and Roy Bates. Much the same faces when I went back as an instructor.

[Old-Duffer]

'Hamish ?' might Hamish Cormack.

Finn Gordon initials DFM, which probably had some amusing uses

Jim Cheatham, David Collinson, Dick Holmes and so it goes on.

About a decade ago, I asked the then RN commandant at DHFS if I could have the course photos so as to compile a book, similar to a couple produced by Gordon Moulds for the Lightning and Phantom OCUs and sold for service charities. In his response he declined saying helicopter pilots were now guaranteed privacy - next day, TV had a lengthy interview with one of those!!

Old Duffer

[ShyTorque]

O-D has already mentioned Bill Barrell. I remember him from when he was OC 84 Sqn B Flight Nicosia in the early 1970s. Other Whirlwind pilots that I recall on 84 B:-

Hamish ?

Hamilton Elliot?

[Haraka]

We had a "7" at Farnborough c 1969. I got some unofficial dual ( hard work for me with working throttle and matching Rotor RPM within limits) but remember being given a great demo of Translational Lift, including the twitch as we got off the ground after the roll. Happy days!

[MPN11]

Reading this Thread has made it obvious that I wouldn't have had a chance of making it through the RN Helo training system back in the early 60s, PPL or not! Binning me at the Flying Grading stage at BRNC saved HMG quite a few wasted hours and £££.

[spekesoftly]

O-D 'Hamish ?' might Hamish Cormack.

ST Hamilton Elliot?

Thanks, but I don't recall either of those surnames, but it is a long time ago. I think he arrived on 84 B Flt in the Summer of 1974 as a first tourist, first name Hamish, single, and definitely from Scotland. Perhaps Hamish was a nickname, but I don't think so.

[Democritus]

After the Hiller 12E (56 hours) in the RN it was on to the Whirlwind HAR Mk3 and HAS Mk7 (42 hours). Wings awarded after 98 hours helicopter time in Feb '65 before AFT and OFT on the Wessex. How times change! Never flew the Whirlwind again. Seem to remember with the Mk3 the Wright Cyclone had to be shut down to do a practice engine off landing otherwise the throttle opened when you raised the collective to cushion the landing. That made you very sure you were going to reach the spot before you shut it down.

I recognise some of the names in the posts above...especially Don Sissons as the CAA trapper who always put the fear of God into me in civvy life when he did my Bell 212 and Bo105 initial type instrument ratings.

[sycamore]

Dem.., the Mk3 was easier to start ,being electric,rather than the `cartridge` start on the Mk7(carry plenty of sixpence coins ,as you`ll probably run out of safety discs);Much easier on Mk9/10...
DS was my instructor at Ternhill and remember doing a L/Level Tac.navex around Oswestry when he spotted some`activity` behind some bushes on a hillside,took control and approached from a different direction for a closer look,putting a couple`s afternoon session to an end...! bit of a `poacher turned gamekeeper` when he went to the CAA..`

[Mogwi]

I seem to recall that the trick to start a reluctant Mk10 was to stamp your left foot hard. The starter relay was mounted under the floor in this location.

Mog

[NutLoose]

The Wessex, you hit it with the Fire Axe handle… how things had moved on from the Whirlwind..

[NutLoose]

All you ex 22 Sqn St Mawgan Whirlywinders, I’m about to make your day.


https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-whirlwinds-at-raf-st-mawgan-1962-online

[Rigga]

I seem to recall that the trick to start a reluctant Mk10 was to stamp your left foot hard. The starter relay was mounted under the floor in this location.

Mog

Spot on! - Not the starter relay but the igniter box under there.

[Oldlae]

Originally Posted by Mogwi View Post (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/264665-whirlwind-helicopter-5.html#post11136207)
I seem to recall that the trick to start a reluctant Mk10 was to stamp your left foot hard. The starter relay was mounted under the floor in this location.

Mog

It was/is the Time Delay Switch.

[Mushroom_2]

Originally Posted by Mogwi View Post (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/264665-whirlwind-helicopter-5.html#post11136207)
I seem to recall that the trick to start a reluctant Mk10 was to stamp your left foot hard. The starter relay was mounted under the floor in this location.

Mog

It was/is the Time Delay Switch.

That's what I was told it was. Very effective trick it was too - generallly took a few stamps though. A new Nav would look at you strangely if he hadn't seen it done before!

[Cornish Jack]

A temporary odditiy for the W10, during a mid 60s period, was the Ops room oven and the 'chippies' pencil being essentials. The batch of ignitor plugs were only good for one start without 'being fixed'. As soon as the morning mushroom hunt (test flight) was finished, the plug was removed, the 'sparky bits' heavily rubbed with a thick lead pencil and then 'baked' for 10 minutes in the oven. Once done, it was good for one more start !
This was how it was done at Thorney - don't know about other flights.

[D120A]

Igniter plugs were the bane of our life in the W10. All crewmen generally carried a spare, together with a 2B pencil. If the plug failed you took it out, went round the guts of it once with the pencil and re-fitted it. It would usually give you one start. If it didn't, you had the spare plug (which may or not have worked for you...)

In FEAF for a while there were no spare plugs, so it was 2B pencils only. On one operation, where a speedy departure was called for from an RV with anxious troops on board, the plug failed and so did the pencil treatment... The crewman grabbed an empty milk bottle from the cabin and filled it with fuel from the water drain tap under the aircraft. Then he soaked a bit of rag and lit it, and while the Boss went through the start sequence the crewman poured the remaining kerosene into the sucking compressor and lit it with the flaming rag as the HP cock was opened. The flame front went through the engine and it lit! Bless the Gnome.

When the Squadron was back in UK I got so fed up with raising defect reports on the plugs to no effect that I called the MD of the firm in Putney that made them, for A Discussion. He had no idea there was a problem, all he knew was that the RAF bought lots of them! I told him the milk bottle story above and it was, I think, the only time I have ever heard someone go pale on the phone. Things got better after that, presumably because they started to pay more attention to the quality and integrity of the plug core. The aircraft industry is brilliant if you communicate with it.

Happy days!

[retreating blade]

I’m fairly certain that it was a ‘Right’ foot stamp that brought a reluctant gnome to life.just look at the floor in front of the right rudder pedal on any WW10 and note the shiny paint free depression there.I always stamped the floor as part of the start procedure.

[Lingo Dan]

Retreating Blade: I agree that right foot stamping was a default part of starting a Whirlwind 10. I also think by the time I started flying them, in 1970, the starting problems were mainly sorted out. I went on to serve on 103 Sqn in Singapore where there seemed to be very few starting problems. Very happy days!

[Rigga]

Retreating Blade: I agree that right foot stamping was a default part of starting a Whirlwind 10. I also think by the time I started flying them, in 1970, the starting problems were mainly sorted out. I went on to serve on 103 Sqn in Singapore where there seemed to be very few starting problems. Very happy days!

Still stamping in 1975!

[Cerney218]

Served at South Cerney and Acklington with Dave Cardus. We borrowed a tandem cycle from the mess store in 66 and I damaged Dave's heel after his cotter pin fell out. What did he do after leaving the service in 88?

[jimborotor]

Hamish Struthers, he went from Nicosia to Oman in 1975.

[idle stop]

One of my favourite Whirlwind tales, from Harrier pre-course training, was about a colleague who was about to demo a LL EOL at Tern Hill. As they go downwind, stalwarrt QHI briefs Bloggs. 'OK Bloggs. As we run in towards the airfield I'll say 'Put your hand on the Speed Select. And when I'm ready to start, I'll say NOW. Then you retard the Speed Select fully. Any questions?' 'No, ***.
So as they run in, *** says 'Put your hand on the speed select now.....'
Fortunately they just scraped over the hedge into The Triangle. The A41 was not so busy those days!

[ShyTorque]

Unlike a colleague of mine when we were both instructing on the Gazelle, who had his student retard the throttle during a low level EOL demo at Ternhill when he was in fact briefed to merely “Identify the throttle” in advance of the “Out of the gate” then “3-2-1….Retard!”

They landed outside of the airfield…

[idle stop]

..and you reminded me, Shy, of the second 'first solo' of EOLs towards the end of the course. Sadly I never instructed on the Whirlwind; when I popped out of CFS(H) we had one Whirlwind Flight, winding down gradually, on 1 Sqn, but I went straight to the Gazelle.
Done loads of EOLs in the Wessex though! (Yes, it was legal: Boscombe Down!)

[Tim Bultitude]

Re post 65: It's - Brendan - Spikens, sadly no longer with us. Nor is George Puddy

And turning to TTH and computer out in the WW10, a chap called Brian Bultitude (who was sadly wiped out on the M6), would fly much of the sortie computer out. His rationale was if you can fly it without the computer, you can do it with it 'In'.

O - D
Brian Bultitude was my Dad...i was 5 when he died...i'm really quite proud of him...thanks for the kind words...

[bspatz]

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/helicopter_6088a2e901402d7e470b2c8e6ba1c32499171ff2.jpg
I have posted this before another another thread, it was taken in the car park of the Officers' Mess RAF Leconfield.

[Cornish Jack]

Tim - your Dad took me on my first Whirlwind flight in 64 - lovely chap and a dreadful shock to us all at TH when we heard of his accident .Your pride is well founded ! :ok:

[sycamore]

That WW,XJ729 was at HQ SAR Wing at Fi`ngly,when I was the MTP `80-84`,and used as a `hack` by 22 Sdn Staff.On 16 Dec`81,I was ground-running it for a blade-change and `tracking`with the `FLAG`when the `flag-man` caught a `tip`,So it went back in the `shed` for a tip change or blade change..It was also the day that all WWs were to be grounded,(in UK),but HQ SAR had been trying to counter that because it was a very useful CAB`,for visits,etc, plenty of spares,etc,etc..Next day,the blade had been changed,so we did a further `track`,all OK,when to my `total surprise` we developed a bout of `ground resonance`,and I `HAD` to get airborne,for 5 minutes(FOR THE LOGBOOK) to calm myself down...!! in 1600 hrs on WW,3,7 ,9,10`s never had this happen before,and on such an occasion ! After landing safely,and having a coffee in my office,in marches SENGO,and his cohorts,very disgruntled,and lots of `blah,blah,grounded aircraft,etc,blah,blah...eventually the carpet shuffling stopped,they all had a coffee,and we all became friends again....
Anyway ,729 still lives on with the guys at Chard,even if it`s got the wrong intake fitted,,,,,