Brize Car Parking - How secure??

[Nat O'Thee]

Not very is the answer.

Just as info for the wider masses out there I want to tell of my latest experience with the RAF's "premiere transport base".

Having just returned from a short det to the Death Star, FI, on an Airbridge that was operating on time, clearly too good to be true.

Walked upto long term carpark to recover the car ready for the trip home and shocked to find that somebody had removed the roof rails and locked roof bars from my car. A rather surprised me as they were a factory fitted option, with fixing nuts special to type and requiring a special allen key to undo them.

I have had them replaced today and the dealership were as surprised as I was, general estimate is it would take between 20 - 30 mins to remove the bars and rails, and would require the special allen key.

Out of interest I reported the occurence to the RAFP at Brize, guess what the answer was? "Ah yes sir we do have regular reports of things missing from cars in the long term car park, spare wheels, aerials and even wheel nuts sometimes. Unfortunately the area is not under cctv coverage and we dont have the staff to patrol the area. We can give you a crime number for your insurance company, but really as we open the file it is closed within 2 weeks with nothing found".

So to all using the airhead be aware the long term carpark is far from secure, and if you use it you may find yourself like me down by £400, or worse case in an RTA when your wheels are not secured properly.

What is the world coming to when you cant even deploy without having to worry about whats happening to your kit on what is thought to be a secure area.

[Nat O'Thee]

Freelander, why dont tell me you have found them on E-Bay??

I did have a quick look on there for them.

Garage reckon they were stolen to order.

[mayorofgander]

Were you at Brize recently, Ratty???:p

MOG:ok:

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

BLUE Freelander eh Ratty.............hmmmmmmmmmm I hope those who "moniter" this site have noticed your slip and the net is closing in on you as I type :p

[NutLoose]

Could of been worse........... I was at Brize when we had Gorbachev visit maggie on the way out to the USA to see Regan I believe............

Security was tight, indeed they removed all parked cars from in front of the terminal including the Avis rentacars........... these were winched off the ground tail first and pulled away, every one of them had the steering locks on and there was an awful sounding bang as they sheared off......... A waaf was delivering a signal, parked her Pushbike in the bike racks outside, came out 10 mins later to find racks and bikes gone..........

They back dug trees on the main drag and used 4 toners to pull em upright then filled in the otherside so all the trees were perfectly upright..........

There was a dustmans strike on, so the RAF emptied every civi bin and cleared up all the rubbish between the station and a school his wife wanted to visit................ the council resurfaced the road overnight!

The money they wasted on a couple of hour visit was discusting.........

[QFIhawkman]

Shurely shome mishtake?

Did you mean disgusting?

Anyway, back to the topic in hand.......

I deployed to a sandy place a year ago, left the old MG in the car park, and all was well on my return.

Having said that, I'm not surprised that car crime happens at Brize.

It's for all intents and purposes, an airport. Just because armed men patrol the lines at night doesn't mean some common thief won't get access. Think of all the deliveries. The workmen. The traders. The squaddies for that matter. All with a valid excuse for being there, but all of them having the opportunity for theft.

As our original poster says, be aware guys. Quite right too. But please don't be surprised that crime happens on an RAF airfield for goodness sake! We're not exempt from crime.

[London Mil]

I guess you will find that 216 Sqn have used your roof bars as spares on the Tristar fleet.:eek:

[mayorofgander]

Were our snowdrops just a tad busy at the time.....doing speed checks and seat belt lectures???:ugh:

MOG:ok:

[Cumbrian Fell]

I think people are missing the point. I would be mightily pi££ed off to return from a det to find my car turned over, having parked it inside the wire. If, as the original poster asserts, there is a pattern of veh related damage and thefts, the RAFP should do something about it. It is simply not acceptable!

Daily Mail mode is....OFF

[Riksbar]

Errrmmmm, I'm just a soft civvy, but with what's alleged to have gone on in Birmingham recently do you really want to be telling the world on an open forum that servicemens' cars at a well known Oxfordshire airbase are unsecured and not monitored? I'd say just losing your roof rack was a lucky escape.:rolleyes:

[sirsaltyhelmet]

QFI Hawkman - I quote

"It's for all intents and purposes, an airport. Just because armed men patrol the lines at night doesn't mean some common thief won't get access. Think of all the deliveries. The workmen. The traders. The squaddies for that matter. All with a valid excuse for being there, but all of them having the opportunity for theft."


Think you are a bit out of order - should that not read "Members of Her Majesties Forces"?

[petop]

Just about to say the same thing!!!!!

[QFIhawkman]

You both know what I meant.

Alright then, I'm man enough: Members of the armed forces.

Happy now? Or have I left anyone else out?

[Cumbrian Fell]

I work in a joint environment and live in a Green mess. LAte last year there was an unsavoury incident when an intruder was found 'worrying' some of the women officers in the Mess. He was detained by a strapping young officer until the RMPs turned up. The intruder - a 'squaddie'- gave some bull£hit story about meeting one of the women in a club and that she had brought him back to the mess. In spite of being intoxicated (or worse) the RMPs released him without him either being searched or questioned. I returned to the mess several days later and found that my room had been broken into, my medals were lifted and and my belongings had been rifled. I duly reported this to the RMP who interviewed me, observed the broken window fittings and sent in a SOC team. In spite of lifting DNA from the wondow frame and lifting a boot print from my duvet (yuk!), the RMP never linked this break-in to the intruder incident, even though the intruder had indicated to the young officer who had detained him which window he had used to enter the mess (ie mine).
Interestingly my medals 'magically' appeared back on my desk a week or two later, and today I received a letter stating that the culprit was never found. What is the point of this story? Well, with the benefit of many years' dull service in single and Joint environments, I have come to the conclusion that Service Police have little interest in property crime (irrespective of the impact) especially when some lateral thinking might be required. Furthermore, in spite of 'our lads' dealing it to insurgents and the Taliban on a regular basis, they can be a feckless lot. I observed a group misbehaving on a train last week (the black role bags being a giveaway) and they giving the ticket collector a serous amount of grief. I was tempted to intervene, but I suspect it would have inflamed the argument (fuelled by some tinnies, as well).

[FormerFlake]

The crime rate at Brize is one of the worst in the RAF. Around 30 push bikes are stolen per month despite being locked etc. Brize is easily the worst base for this I have ever stayed at for petty theft etc. If you need to leave a car there try and get a mate who works there to keep an eye on it for you.

[Nat O'Thee]

Riksbar, nothing wrong with being a soft civvy, and thanks for the concern you show towards us. But there is nothing wrong with advising how insecure and area WITHIN the wire is IMHO. Its more important to let the world know that having just come back from an OP, having survived the 6 months in the sand, and the AT trip back, its worth checking you have all the relevant bits on your car, especially WHEEL NUTS. Dont want somebody getting out the gate and being overtaken by their own rear wheel on the A40 do we.

Ratty, very interesting edit of your post, first you mention a silver freelander, then you edit to become a blue one. Was this just a slip?? The thieving w%^$£r that nicked £400 worth of property from me did so from a silver vehicle.

Yes I suggest plod were too busy taking tweezers from bags in the terminal to worry about private property, and indeed that was pretty much the feeling I was given when reporting.

Totally suggest leaving your car elsewhere on the station should you be using the place in the future, I know I will be in the future, and god help any plod that trys to ticket me.

[Mr Blake]

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Found out what the Police have been up to. Otherwise engaged in policing a protest, therefore allowing miscreants in to lift various car parts.

[Cumbrian Fell]

Shouldn't that banner read 'Brize Norton Carpark is Unsafe'?

[Nat O'Thee]

Ha ratty libel is a very serious word. Pointing out of facts cant be construded as libel.

Just interested in the edit of your post from silver to blue.

Have you read your pm's?

[Nat O'Thee]

Nice pics chap,

But looks like they were outside the gate, and that is civpol.

RAF Plod isnt alound to work outside the gate, hence we have MOD Plod.

Wouldnt mind but that protest is so very close to the car park in question.

Ah well I have highlighted the situation hope it helps others.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

He's a shifty barsteward Nat, keep your eyes on him!

[Nat O'Thee]

Now thats libel.....

[mayorofgander]

Was is a silvery blue or a bluey silver Freelander then Ratty???:confused:

MOG:ok:

[Mr Blake]

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/images/2007/02/362116.gif

Fair point Nat, but would make an excellent caption comp. Perhaps starting with "Got a complaint here from some bloke about roofbars"

[mayorofgander]

How many 'sharps' did you get today Sarge??:D

MOG:ok:

[petop]

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b391/smudgesmith/362116.gif
"Only 2 more numbers and the Bonus ball, and i'd have won £10"!!

[Truck2005]

Just finished a course at Brize. When I booked the hired car onto camp the security office asked which company it was with. When I told him he said they were banned from drop-offs because they have claimed their cars were either damaged or missing.

I was a bit surprised as they were a large, well known company, but perhaps there there was something in what they were saying, after all.

Security did not sound too bothered by it.

[gar170]

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So which was it blue or silver?.
Dont now its not on this colour chart.

[Level 28]

Nat o'Thee

Offence was probably not committed by anyone who had any good reason to be at the 'Airhead'.

I was there today on 'very important' business.

Window went down as I approached Mr and Mrs Snowdrop - MT pouch and ID in hand - and with 10 yards to go they got distracted and started shouting to someone to my right.......I drove straight on by. Only found out later that I should of had a vehicle pass........

:D

[Level 28]

Psssst Ratty1,

Don't tell anyone this, but I was 'checked' onto the airhead stn yesterday by Mr Plod showing exactly the same documents. It was, after all, a MT vehicle......

:cool:

[Wannabe1974]

How exactly would not having a vehicle pass constitute a security alert? If anyone can really explain to me why they are needed when one is in posession of a forces ID card, I would be grateful! Seems like needless bolleaux to keep the idle in work to me...
Back on topic, I had my aerial stolen in 2002 from the said car park. I was utterly amazed and pretty annoyed at my welcome home from 6 months in lovely Bosnia. 9 years in the Navy and nothing like this ever happened to me at any Naval Base, despite my car residing in them for most of my career. Nor have I heard of it happening elsewhere, except for RAF B-N. RAFP's attitude was pretty much 'whaddayawantmetodoabaatit?". I suggested CCTV, but I see they still haven't quite got around to it....

[ZH875]

How exactly would not having a vehicle pass constitute a security alert? If anyone can really explain to me why they are needed when one is in posession of a forces ID card, I would be grateful!...


Probably because when you leave your vehicle, you put your forces ID card in your pocket and don't leave it on display in the window like a car pass, so the car can be seen to legit. No car pass in a car at BZN, but driver has an ID card in his pocket at MPA, is not a lot of use to the security forces.:ugh:

[Flt Lt Spry]

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b391/smudgesmith/362116.gif

"OK then, 1 large Hawaiian, 1 Meat Feast, a garlic bread, 2 cans of coke and a tub of ice cream. And what do you two want?"

[Faithless]

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"Back to Brize Guv". "Reported theft of a C17, sometime in the early hours of this morning".

[Faithless]

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What it does'nt show, just out of the frame are the words "For British Forces" :bored:

[QFIhawkman]

Excellent reply ZH875. Who DOESN'T know that you have to display a vehicle pass on an military base?

Come on guys, it's been around for a few years now. It's not new.

And as for this:

(I Quote): Window went down as I approached Mr and Mrs Snowdrop - MT pouch and ID in hand - and with 10 yards to go they got distracted and started shouting to someone to my right.......I drove straight on by. Only found out later that I should of had a vehicle pass........(Unquote)

Give credit where credit is due. It's SERCO security at Brize. Just because they wear a white hat and a yellow vest doesn't make them snowdrops.
Give security over to a civilian company like them and you know what will happen.

As much as they were pilloried, I would like to see our RAFP back on the gates. They did the job professionally and to an extremely high standard.

I stand by for incoming. :hmm:

[Wannabe1974]

"Probably because when you leave your vehicle, you put your forces ID card in your pocket and don't leave it on display in the window like a car pass, so the car can be seen to legit. No car pass in a car at BZN, but driver has an ID card in his pocket at MPA, is not a lot of use to the security forces"

And? How does the car get there? Short of someone having invented a pegasus powered mondeo while I was having dinner, presumably the vehicle has to pass through a security gate where it is checked by the ever-vigilant guard service? Would a MOD wide vehicle database be difficult to organise, just for the once-in-a-lifetime occasion that someone questions the ownership of a parked car?
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[Level 28]

QFIhawkman


Who DOESN'T know that you have to display a vehicle pass on an military base?

Clearly, SERCO security guards. I'll say it again, {{{{{{IT WAS A MT VEHICLE}}}}}.

I have to say this raises further issues about security at military airfields; I have gained access to a number of bases recently on showing only an ID card and a MT pouch - certainly not been directed to go and get a VP.

I see the error of my ways and I will now stop this irresponsible practice............:E

[Wrathmonk]

IIRC MT fleet vehicles don't need a car pass - just the MT docket is sufficient. (Edited coz Level 28 posted whilst I was two finger typing!)

However, taking Wannabees thinking one stage further if all visitors have to come through the main gate and past RAFP / MOD Plod / SERCO or whoever then why do we have to lock secrets away at night or indeed need combination locks to get into the Mess / barrack block etc. Surely everybody has been checked ....

Memories are short.

Back on thread - with regards to the car park at Brize. Use MT. Thats what they are there for. And again, IIRC, deploying on ops is one of those rare times that MT will come and pick you up from your house regardless of whether it is on base or off base. Or at least they did at the only remaining flying base in Norfolk!

[Faithless]

pheww you were luck....picked up from home...who are you the Station Commander?
At a Hampshire base you'd be lucky if you get picked up at all ,for Ops by MT :sad:

[Wrathmonk]

Faithless

Behave. Live 20 miles the wrong side of the base but still picked up from the front door at silly o'clock in the morning and delivered back 4 months later without question.

I guess the Staish wanted to make sure I actually went!

[Faithless]

LOL. Twas once a first class MT Section you had. Well Done:D Not many like that now since the LEV....(Lean Event Virus)

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

Probably because when you leave your vehicle, you put your forces ID card in your pocket and don't leave it on display in the window like a car pass, so the car can be seen to legit. No car pass in a car at BZN, but driver has an ID card in his pocket at MPA, is not a lot of use to the security forces.:ugh:

However, taking Wannabees thinking one stage further if all visitors have to come through the main gate and past RAFP / MOD Plod / SERCO or whoever then why do we have to lock secrets away at night or indeed need combination locks to get into the Mess / barrack block etc. Surely everybody has been checked ....

Memories are short.

:ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

The car is driven onto the base by someone with a valid ID, so it's legit...

What the occupant does once on the camp is irrelevant - we don't lock away secrets or have combination locks on buildings to stop evil cars committing crimes by themselves!

So how, following Wrathmonk's logic, would enforcing car passes stop anyone getting up to no good? (it clearly doesn't work, does it?!)

The sad fact is that the people committing crimes at Brize and elsewhere were all entitled to be there (whether serviceman/contractor/visitor), and that we're not safe even behind the wire. Making them get a car pass would only delay their nefarious activities by 5 minutes (or 25 mins, knowing Brize!).

I'm grateful to Nat for his original warning, and fully understand his feelings on discovering the theft. Great shame.

[Doobs]

Just because someone has been checked and allowed entry to any Station doesnt automatically mean that the person/serviceman/contractor or whoever is a fine upstanding, law abiding citizen.
There are lots of untrustworthy, robbing barstewards in the forces.

I agree with QFIHawkman that the RAF Police gets alot of bad press but when Stations were 'Policed' by the Snowdrops with a full compliment on shift, then thefts etc were significantly reduced.

[Mr Blake]

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"Sarge, is this how you feel someone's collar?"

[SirToppamHat]

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"Can't stand these gits who whinge about crime all the time, back to the car checking. I'm still on, and I need one more red then I'll take a blue followed by the colours. With a bit of luck, and providing that weirdo with the yellow punto's in today, I can finish with a break of 72 here!"
"Don't facy your chances of a pink mate!"
"Oh I don't know, with EO and all that, they let anyone in these days."
And don't say it doesn't go on - it's one of the reasons I bought a silver car!
STH;)

[petop]

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"It says here "REPORT TO THE GUARDROOM FOR FAILING TO DISPLAY CAR PASS""

[teeteringhead]

Thinking of the other picture, isn't "Iraq is Unsafe" a bit polite and weeny for the political slogan department.....

.....it's as if Poll tax protesters had chanted:

"Maggie, Maggie, Maggie - really ought to consider her position in the not too distant future, really ought to consider her position in the not too distant future, really ought to consider her position in the not too distant future!"

;)

[Blacksheep]

When I were at Brize, it was the IRA who were the threat. We TG1 airmen manned the barriers at both the main gates and the inner fence as a "station duty". (Shinies were exempt - presumably because there was weather outside and it might kill them). Because that made us stroppy, no-one got in or out without stopping, getting out of the vehicle, opening the bonnet and boot and producing their papers. I once held the RAF Regiment Warrant Officer fifteen minutes because he refused to get out of the car. Leave security to the security people and look what happens. :rolleyes:

We didn't have combination locks on our barracks then either - if we found anyone in our block who didn't belong, they were beaten to a pulp and slung in the skip. It wouldn't have been a good idea to park a bicycle outside the terminal building around meal times, though. It was a bloody long walk from LSS to the airmens' mess!

[PICKS135]

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b391/smudgesmith/362116.gif
So thats 'FOR SALE Roof bars. Fits L/Rover Freelander £50 ONO'

[Wannabe1974]

"However, taking Wannabees thinking one stage further if all visitors have to come through the main gate and past RAFP / MOD Plod / SERCO or whoever then why do we have to lock secrets away at night or indeed need combination locks to get into the Mess / barrack block etc. Surely everybody has been checked ...."

That would be taking my line of thought to a logical, if absurd conclusion. There is a big difference between someone having parked in B carpark when they should have been in C carpark, to leaving TS material lying around.

Thankfully I haven't spent a lot of my time hanging around RAF carparks, but when at MPA I did notice that the main focus of the base's service police forces seemed to be to ensure that the reserved car parking spaces at the Mess weren't used by unauthorised personnel. There are at least a hundred of them reserved for people ranging from the Boss to OIC Ice Clearance Ops (I'm paraphrasing, but this is an actual officer!). So as you can imagine, its a pretty big job.

You have to wonder...

[Shjustme]

Acting upon information recieved that this thread was up and running I thought I might offer the following:
During my time at BZN certain members of the Movements Sqn felt the urge to ''borrow'' cars from the long stay car park for their own private use, often for several days at a time. They got caught in due course.. Perhaps they have come out of retirement, or jail, to start again, or their grown up kids are following in their footsteps?

:*

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Or possibly typical Movements :p

[aes69]

Plods finally arrived. Accusing the Movements section at Brize Norton for the theft of parts of a car without evidence. Typical RAFP.

And that's gonna get how far? No-where me thinks!

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

As in the RAFP are simply not capable of such and in depth investigation or the Pikey Movers have got such a great scam going that even Morse would struggle to solve it:sad:

[Cumbrian Fell]

Morse would indeed struggle...he is dead!

[1000CC'soffun]

Morse.........dead....oh no!

[Faithless]

Morse.......Ho please.......No.........When did he go?:{

[SkyHawk-N]

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This invoice from Pikey & Sons Car Accessories must be wrong. I can't believe our new roof bar mounted Police lights were so cheap!

[gar170]

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B*****K's we only needed 5 No's and the bonus ball

[Moversaregreat]

I do realise that because I was a mover, it will have been my own fault of course, and punishment from above for all the catastrophies that all perfect people have blamed on movers over the years....but when I was stationed at the movers paradise in Oxfordshire I awoke one morning to find my beloved Ford Sierra missing not one...but all of its wheels :mad: And to top it all they forgot to use bricks.....:eek: :ugh:
Of course the only way to go was to report the unfortunate incident to the....well you got it....RAF Police....who told me to take the car to a garage and they would more than likely give me a quote for my insurance company new wheels and maybe have some to sell me !!!!
After explaining yet again that I had no wheels to put the car on to get me there, they suggested....well sorry not a lot we can do really then but we will keep a look out for any disgarded wheels we might find and let you know :)
PS.... I was asked to describe for there report what condition the vehicle was in the last time I had seen it...."well Sarg the same as now realy ....but it had wheels :hmm:

[gar170]

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b391/smudgesmith/362116.gif

"but they get up at random times for less stringent duties. If they have a disturbed night, they might drop a pencil"

"Do you think the obnoxious cow means us and to think we are supposed to be one team.
"I know i can remember when officers acted like officers"

[BEagle]

"I know - I can remember when officers acted like officers"

Which presumably included acting in a gentlemanly manner - and not casting aspersions about a certain young lady C-130 pilot in the way many have on a particularly distasteful thread on this PPRuNe forum.

[gar170]

Lighten up Whats the matter just because its one of your own.

Quote:
Plods finally arrived. Accusing the Movements section at Brize Norton for the theft of parts of a car without evidence. Typical RAFP.
[QUOTE][/As in the RAFP are simply not capable of such and in depth investigation or the Pikey Movers]

Im sure if she can survive the sands then a bit of banter wont hurt.Or if it offends others then maybe they should show more respect for others.