BT Broadband screw pensioner over to cover cost of mistakes

[Melchett01]

Hi everyone, just wondering if anyone might be able to shed light on this 'issue' I am having trying to get BT Broadband installed on my mother's computer.

She is using a new HP DV6100 series laptop and took out a subscription to BT Broadband Option 1, but using a Voyager 2500V wireless router. The activation date was 5 Feb.

In the run up to 5 Feb, my mother received 3 phone calls, a letter and an email telling her & then confirming that the line would be ready on 5 Feb. My mother has very little idea about computers, so I said I would install it for her, and the weekend after the activation date duly made a 400 mile roundtrip to install it on the strength of their numerous calls and letters - having installed my own BT Broadband, I figured it would be easy.
When I connected the router to the laptop it wouldn't connect to the net and BT Desktop Help wouldn't connect either. There was no DSL or Internet light on the router, although the router appeared to be working fine as the laptop was detecting a wireless connection.

I rang the help desk (don't get me started on it being in India) and they tried to fob ne off with change the micro filters. I did this with no change so rang them back. The second time round, we got a bit further down the Help Desk script, this time to using the non-existant reset button, pulling all the cables out and turning it all off and on again. Again, no joy.

He then got me to type in an http address to bring up the router diagnostics (192.168.1.1 ?) which again showed that the router was working fine, but suggested there was an ADSL synchronization fault, but seemed to ignore this and plumped for the 'you're in the optimization period' excuse. He wouldn't budge when I suggested that optimization would suggest at least some service albeit temperamental.

The next day, I rang back again and got the same rubbish service - unplug, line test etc etc. I repeatedly told them about the ADSL synchronization fault and they repeatedly ignored it. Then we got to the crux of the problem. My mother doesn't know how to install the router but I do, which is why I drove 400 miles through a blizzard to do it. I am in the Armed Forces and will shortly be going out of UK, so there is no way that I can go back and install it and so asked how she was supposed to get it installed. Their response - pay £50 for an engineer. Needless to say, I was apoplectic when I heard that. Why should my mother have to pay for BT to correct THEIR cock up?

I put an official complaint in and got the usual response - we're sorry blah blah blah, but if YOU ring US, we'll fix it. I then asked why tech support didn't sort it in the first place if they can sort it now, and reiterated the problem of even if the line was sorted who would install it. Later today, they rang my mother, being very apologetic and then informed her than an engineer would cost far more than £50.

What the hell are BT playing at? Anybody have any idea what an ADSL synchronization fault is? And has anybody else had the experience of BT screwing over a pensioner to cover the costs of their mistakes? And am I being unreasonable in asking BT to send an engineer to fix this problem without charging my mother an extortionate amount to fix their problems?

[stevef]

I had issues with BTinternet when I was living in the UK. No problem with installation but with them doubling my Direct Debit payments without permission. The first time I complained, I received an apology and payment reduction but they did the same again a short while later. This time I was passed around Customer Services for a number of weeks (e-mail) and predictably, not one assistant had an Anglo-Saxon name. It took more than a month after closing my account to receive a refund.
Sorry to hear that your mother is on the blunt end of their customer care, Melchett. It's not that you've even got the option of visiting BT shops anymore and complaining to someone face-to-face because they've all been closed down.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

And am I being unreasonable in asking BT to send an engineer to fix this problem without charging my mother an extortionate amount to fix their problems?

Can't tell from what you've posted.

So far, from what you have posted, they appear to have failed to diagnose the fault, and it seems to me that until you have a diagnosis you don't know whose cock-up, if any, it is.

In my view (I know the courts are taking a different view in an ever-increasing range of circumstances, which I find bizarre) whether the charge is reasonable or not depends on what the contract says - if the contract says that that's the charge, then it's reasonable. £50 for an engineer is certainly cheaper than the £200 you spent driving 400 miles (assuming that was 400 round trip)!!

Clearly I agree that a call centre erk following a script they don't understand is pretty useless ... but they're all like that, and at least if you're buying broadband from BT you're avoding the "it's BT's problem", "no, it's the ISP's problem", "no it's BT's problem" ping-pong game.

[Melchett01]

Gertrude -

The all the indicators are an ADSL synchronisation failure - as I mentioned originally - and that is from the router diagnostic tests. The PC is new and works fine, and the router works fine - the PC detects that it is there and pumping out wiggly amps and the line is fine, as BT have confirmed having done several tests on it. In theory, having had the line enabled, everything should be working.

But what is an ADSL synchronization failure? Whilst I can install broadband no dramas, I'm not that much of an IT fan that I know what that means. I am trying to work out if this is something that BT should be sorting themselves having agreed to take on the contract to provide a service and stated several times that the line is good to go. There was certainly no mention of charging a 3-figure sum when they originally checked the line and said it was suitable for broadband.

[Keef]

I keep a couple of old, spare modems (one USB "Frog", and one "proper" one). When one of my ever-increasing circle of friends has problems with broadband, I go round with my laptop and my two modems. Thus far, I've been able to connect with those in all but a very few cases. The most common fix until recently was to throw out the Belkin modem/router kit and lend them mine until they could get a proper one. I think the word is out not to call me to Belkin kit: I've not seen any for best part of a year.

If the USB modem connects (and I've found that pretty straightforward) then we're closer to diagnosing the problem, and don't need the BT person.

If it won't connect with the Frog, and since I know the Frog is OK: when the "helpdesk" (what a euphemism!) starts down the script, I stop them and tell them I've done all that, and may I please immediately escalate the problem to Level 2.

So ... Melchett ... can you get your hands on a different modem? That will eliminate the "Home" equipment as a reason for failure. If the BT kit is faulty, then they shouldn't charge to sort it out - but you will have to be pretty sure (and pretty aggressive).

[bacardi walla]

Thought I'd share this letter to BT with you.......

quote
Dear Sir / Madam

Re: Order number xxxxxxx

In connection with the above order, placed on 4th October 2006, I wish to strongly complain about the handling of the Broadband aspects of the order and the total lack of customer service.

Having spoken to BT on 4th October 2006 to advise that I was moving home on 6th November 2006, I thought by giving BT over a month’s notice, I would be ahead of the game. I was advised of my new telephone number and that my Broadband connection would take place on 13th November 2006.
I moved in to the new house as planned on 6th November and found the telephone line connected, which was good news. However, on 8th November, I received a call from BT advising that the Broadband would not be connected until 22nd November due to “a technical fault”.

At this point I was also advised that my direct debit would be changed to £70per month instead of the current £40 per month (reduced from £55). So, a further delay in connection but an increase in costs to me. Not a good start.
After speaking to the payments section on 8th November, it was agreed that £60 would be paid each month as BT could find no record of why it had been agreed during October, to reduce my payments to £40.00 per month. How can my payments be reduced from £55 per month, to £40, then increase to £70 then down again to £60? It appears on the surface that figures are plucked from the air.

On 13th November, I called BT again and after waiting 35 minutes for someone to answer my call, I was met by an arrogant and very rude individual who said “the system was busy, would I accept a call back in 30 minutes”. Before I could reply yes or no, he cut me off and so I had to call back and go through all the account related questions again. This time I was greeted by a lady who had the decency to apologise and offered to assist me.
She checked my account details and made contact with the Broadband section and advised me that my connection would take place on 15th November and NOT the 22nd November. I queried this and she confirmed that 15th was definitely going to be the connection date.

One day later than the “expected” connection date, on 16th November, I discovered the connection had not taken place and so yet again, I called BT and was advised that they held no record of 15th November as being a connection date and that connection would be made on 22nd November. This call lasted 38 minutes.

However, 20 minutes later and out of curiosity, I called BT again and was advised that 15th November was going to be the connection date but engineers had to lay a new line and that connection would now be made on 20th November. I queried yet again the date quoted and the chap insisted that I would not have to call BT again as the connection will be made on 20th November. I advised him that despite his optimism, my faith in BT was rapidly disappearing and that I would see what happens on 20th November. This latest call lasted 41 minutes.

I wish to complain about the abruptness and rudeness of your staff member when I called on 13th November. I also wish to complain about the lack of consistency in the tracking of the order. To be told the service will be connected on 13th, then 22nd, then 15th, then 22nd, then 20th November leaves me wondering if anyone within BT has any clue as to what they are doing. Having called BT’s Customer Services department on 16th November and be told “you rang the wrong department so how do you expect to get the right answer”, is quite frankly, disgusting and beyond comprehension. Correct me if I’m wrong, but does your Customer Service department normally provide customer service?

So, I wish to formally lodge a complaint at the way my order has been handled. To quote your website “Please call us on 0800 800 150, giving at least five full working days notice to arrange transfer of your BT services”. This in itself is very misleading. I provided BT with over one month’s notice and here I am still waiting for my Broadband to be connected. I also would like to add, this is a service I am paying for and am not able to use.

I am disgusted at the level of so called “customer service” especially as I am a loyal BT customer. I am paying for a service that BT are currently not providing and for that, and the ongoing lack of grip on my order, leaves me very frustrated, angry in fact.
I would appreciate your reply as soon as possible.
Yours sincerely
unquote

Then, and if you are still awake after reading the above, I had to write the next letter because once BT had received the above, they claimed they knew nothing about me.

quote
Dear Sir / Madam

I appreciate that even huge organisations such as BT will sometimes make mistakes, and I appreciate also that procedures to reduce mistakes often don't work out. But I'm afraid, the mistakes made whilst dealing with my house move actually go beyond belief.

On 17th November, I posted a written complaint to you concerning the connection of my internet account at my new home address, which is xxxxxxxxxxxxx.

I was amazed, horrified in fact, to read your reply dated 23rd November whereby you advise you are unable to locate my account. In my letter, I provided an order number as provided by BT when I placed the house move order, and my new address was at the top of the letter. If you cannot trace my account using those 2 items then I am seriously starting to wonder if BT actually has the ability to provide customer service especially after the conversation I had with the BT Broadband Technical Support Supervisor on 23rd November. Read on and you will understand why.

Once you have read the complaint letter, you will see that I was advised various connection dates for when the service would be live and useable. You will also see that on 20th November, the service was not connected despite it being promised to me the previous week. On this very day, 20th November, I received a text message from BT advising that the connection would be made on 22nd November and then on 22nd at 913am, I received another text saying the service had been connected.

However, on 23rd November, I called BT Broadband Technical Support because the line was not working in the afternoon and yet it was fine in the morning. The lady (in India) who answered the call was polite but immediately asked me to hold for 2 minutes while she raised my account documents. 8 minutes later, she appeared to be confused as to who I was but eventually found my details after I had confirmed my identity twice. I gave her the scenario of the fault and she asked me to contact the supplier of my internet router. The router was not faulty, the BT internet connection was at fault because it was not active. After being asked yet again to hold, I asked to be connected to the Supervisor. I was eventually connected and we agreed between us that the filter was at fault and that after changing the filter, the line would be back up and running which it was. Luckily I found a spare one.

What shocked me though was that the Supervisor told me that according to her records, the line was connected on 16th November and not 22nd. So, could kindly explain why I was told on numerous occassions after 16th November, my line was to be connected on 22nd, then 20th, then 22nd again !!

Believe me, I am normally a calm, stress free and level headed person who rarely complains but I'm afraid the level of customer service I have received from BT from the day I placed the house move order (4th October) to the present day, is quite frankly outrageous. That includes your reply letter dated 23rd November where you state you can't find my account details despite me providing an order number and a postal address.

To be spoken to by 2 of your staff in a manner that left me startled and to be severely misguided on the connection issues AND to be told that despite reducing my direct debit payments only last month you now want to increase them by £30, leaves me feeling very tempted to contact OFCOM or even the BBC Watchdog team and report BT for providing a second rate service to a customer who has been with BT for 16 years.

So, now that you have my order number, my telephone number and my postal address, kindly read and digest the above and reply to me with your explanation into why I have been treated like this. I'm not asking for compensation, but BT would be very wise to consider such a move as it would go someway into healing the high level of anger, stress and frustration that BT have caused me since I moved into my new house on 6th November.

Moving home is very stressful regardless of any problems encountered on the way, but to be confronted with such a lack of support with what should have been an easy transistion, is quite simply not acceptable.

Rest assured that if I do not receive a satisfactory reply to this 2nd complaint, I will escalate it to the top level and beyond.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Yours sincerely
unquote

The upshot is this.

I did have to escalate it to a higher level. In fact I took it to the Chairman and Chief Executives Office. The result was this:

On 31st January 2007, I received a bank credit of 59p from BT, 2 bottles of wine and a letter saying "we trust the matter is now resolved to your satisfaction".

Rest assured, I'm not satisfied but what can we as consumers do. BT have the monopoly on the lines and while I can go elsewhere for phone and internet services, they all rely on BT for line useage.

RANT OVER

[blackace]

Melchett01

As said previously you must be sure its BTs fault or they will charge. do the following.

Remove the front panel from the incoming BT socket to your house, this will dissconnect all your telephones and services.

Take a single micro filter and plug it into the test point at the bottom right of the BT socket.

Plug your modem in to the filter.

If you still have no signal then its either....

1. Either your modem (if BT supplied this as part of the contract then its their fault, if not try to borrow one to be sure).

Or....

2. You have no signal which is definetly BTs fault.

Once you prove its BTs problem they will send an engineer round and he will not charge, just make sure you explain the engineer is coming round to correct a fault and not do the installation.

Its important you try the test point as the engineer will always work with that first.

I had a similar problem at my mothers house, the Sky TV phone line had been branched off from inside the box and so I missed it, removing the cover and using the test point made me see where I had gone wrong.

Hope that helps.

[blackace]

If you really are convinced its BT. Here is an alternative approach you can use to resolve your problem, I used this route myself recently with great success.

Use the following details to get some action.

the Chairman's office (i.e not the switchboard) can be reached on 0207 3566666 (this for now appears disconnected).

the highest level you can complain to in BT is Phil Rhodes, Assistant to the Chairman and Chief Executive - his e-mail is [email protected]. (that is correct with two c's)

The phone number you should use first is 0207 3565000 which is the Chairman's switchboard. If you phone it, a high level employee MUST phone you back in two hours (although apparently they work to an hour).

The number for the chairmans switchboard is freely available, it is part of BT's fault monitoring service, dont let the receptionist connect you back to the normal fault reporting service, insist that you want to speak to someone in the chairmans office.

When I elevated my problem to this level I got weekly calls from the chairman's office and a huge big URGENT stamp was put on the fault report, if the fault doesn't get resolved within one week someone at BT gets the hair dryer treatment.

Even calling them to explain how disgusted you are about their so called help desk is worth it.

[bacardi walla]

It was Phil Rhodes who dealt with my complaint above and look at the reply I got. 59p and 2 bottles of wine. Hardly outstanding customer service is it ???

[crewmeal]

So BT are just as bad as Talk Talk. Are there any providers out there who can provide a service you can be proud of and actually have a decent level of customer service?

I have had similar problems with talk talk who now own my line not BT as everyone says!!

[frostbite]

I have been with Madasafish (previously Freenetname who were taken over) for several years and, while not perfect, around 99.5% satisfactory during that time.

They do respond to emails and have even phoned me to discuss a problem I had.

[Saab Dastard]

Are there any providers out there who can provide a service you can be proud of and actually have a decent level of customer service?


Well, Telewest have been pretty good over the last few years with the blueyonder service. Seems that Virgin have taken it over now.

Case in point - power cut a couple of years ago, when a local sub-station blew out. Within an hour, a telewest van had appeared and started up a genny to power the telephone circuits in the local box. I had a chat with him - he was settling in for an all-nighter, if required.

After a few hours, the power came back, so I tested the broadband connection - nada. As the engineer was still there, I drew his attention to this. Without further ado, he checked all the distribution boxes (4) and identified the failed board and replaced it, there and then.

Perhaps that isn't a good example of Customer Services (with capital letters), but a very good example of customer service.

I still have issues with their mail servers, but I can honestly say that this has improved over the last few months.

SD

[P.Pilcher]

Well I have always sung the praises of Plusnet when broadband ISPs are discussed. I've been with them ever since broadband became available at my exchange a few years ago and the few problems I have had with them have always been addressed quickly.
Recently they anounced that they had been taken over by BT! Oh my Gawd - how long before their service drops to BT's level as documented here and their prices rise to those of BT. Soon, I presume, I shall need another ISP!

P.P.

[OzPax1]

Hmmmm....get the ISP to do a 'Woosh' Test on the line . Specifically the 'No sync' test. This will hopefully show up a line fault if there is one. Should the woosh test prove ok, then ask to have the line 'session killed'. This effectively resets the your lines adsl session on the card at exchange end of the line. As others have said also try al this using an adsl modem and filters you know work.

If all this fails insist on an engineers visit as in all probability it will be a line fault of some sort.