WSOPS

[SevenO]

Any useful inside information as a career as a WSOP(Crewman). Is this basically a L/M position? Does the RAF glossy brochure give a true picture of the lifestyle? Any information would be much appreciated, my son is thinking of taking this path.

[R 21]

It is a great career but you need to be careful. If your son goes to helicopters he will never get off them until he has sustained some sort of injury which prevents him flying. If I had my time again go fixed wing first then consider SAR. SH is a young mans game ... god I sound old !

[R 21]

Ratty

those you speak of are very few and far between. The unfortunate norm is get rid of the sickies to Fixed wing.

:{

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Sickies is a bit emotive, I would much prefer using "those who have given everything they can for so long with so little respite that unsurprisingly ill health gets the worse of them and they need eventually need employing on a platform that will allow them to stand up straight!"

[The Swinging Monkey]

R 21,

If I had my time again, I would definately go back to SAR at the drop of a hat. It was great fun and the best job I ever did in the Air Force. Hard work, but challenging and bloody rewarding - something flying round in circles at 30k+ is NOT!

SevenO
Tell your boy to go for it!

TSM

[Avtur]

As Ratty has eluded to; your son will go through the common WSOp phase at Cranwell before being streamed into what was an ALM on rotary or fixed wing aircraft, or as an AEOp on Nimrods or E3-Ds. He is unable to join specifically as an ALM at the outset, it all depends on his aptitude during this phase.

hope this helps.

[toddbabe]

Or avtur what the service needs! he might happen to be perfect for loadie but the service may be v short of Drymen at Kinloss that month! goodbye helo's hello nimrods!

[SevenO]

Thanks for the replies chaps. They have been enlightening. Overall, from your comments, it seems that the career you think you might be joining up for, is not necesarily the one which you will end up with within the WSOPs job description. Judging from the majority of posts in the military forum, there are a lot of unhappy chaps in the RAF, just waiting to get out for one reason or another. From an outsiders viewpoint it doesnt look ideal, but then what career in any industry does these days. Any more info still appreciated:ok:

[9.81m/s/s]

sevenO ; some good advice there - please take the point that now your son does not have the freedom to specify what ' trade ' he wants. He can certainly state a preference and keep on letting it be known through his training where he would like to go. However the powers that be are under no obligation to honour his wishes and he may find himself doing a job which he has little or no interest in - which as anyone knows is a huge de-motivator. We in the Airmen Aircrew world all know why this system was introduced - simply to staff shortages in the old ' AEOp ' trade - but I do sympathise with anyone wanting to join and not being able to apply directly for the job of their choice. Be very careful in the RAFCO or CIO or whatever it is called these days - remember these guys have a job to do and whilst I am not saying they will give you duff info ( they are not allowed to ), they WILL make it sound easy to jump around between the 3 old trades...something like.....' oh don't let the system put you off.....you can always do a tour on Nimrods as an AEOp then go off and be a loadmaster or SAR winchman '. IT IS NOT THAT EASY although things are getting better.

Just a quick point in response to ratty..... He seems to think that there is something wrong in being in the military and coming on this forum whingeing an bleating....... Well as you know we in the military are not always afforded the same level of freedom of speech as the general public....lest I find myself prematurely stuck in rank and not going any higher or worse.....not being able to meet the mortgage re-payments. It is common knowledge that letting off steam is healthy and the anonymity is welcome. We all work hard and genuine worries, grievances or rants are all part of military life - I am very surprised that ratty does not know this ... is he still wet behind the ears in the service.....and of course the flip side of rattys coin is that if HE does not like reading all the rants and complaints then perhaps HE should p*ss off off this forum and subscribe to the Womens Institute or something equally pink, fluffy and very far removed from reality.


I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, brirfed, de-briefed or numbered..........I am not a number...........I am a free man. HA HA HA

[SevenO]

9.81m/s/s

Please check your PMs. Thanks:)

[ProfessionalStudent]

All good, sound advice here. If it's ALM or bust, then there may be some merit in doing the training, getting streamed and then leaving if the result is not as desired. A tough route, but if time's on his side, then why not? Reasonable pay while in, a good "life experience" and a chance to fulfill the dream. If he wants it enough, it could be worth a punt.

To those that say this wastes the RAF's time and money, well, they brought this kind of thing on themselves.

As has been said before, though, if he's got the grades (or is likely to), tell him to seriously consider applying for pilot training instead. Like it or not, it's a pilot's RAF, run BY pilots FOR pilots. At OASC, he can put Pilot, WSO then WSOp as his choices. I did and many others do too, as the ignominy of joining one of the ground branches is all too much to bear... :E

[9.81m/s/s]

SevenO ; check your PMs


9.81m/s/s

[TheWizard]

We in the Airmen Aircrew world
Tut tut, not been reading your literature recently;)

Do bear in mind though even if he was streamed as a WSop(CMM) then there is a chance he could end up on Tristars or VC10's. :rolleyes:
or Hercules
or C17
or Chinook
or Puma
or Merlin
or Sea King
:hmm:

[Judge Rembrandt]

SevenO,
Hi,
There are many good reasons for your son to apply for NCA and, as you have been able to read for yourself, many reasons to consider another career path. Firstly there are a number of hoops to jump through - educational, medical, suitability etc. More info on all of these can be obtained via the ‘sticky’ at the top of this forum. Make sure the AFCO are aware of your son’s aspirations to become NCA. They should all have the ‘glossies’ and a very informative DVD/Video showing all NCA specialisations. They will also be able to arrange a visit – last Thursday of each month – to 55(R) Sqn at RAF Cranwell - where he will have a series of open forum talks on all aspects of selection, training and roles. They will have to arrange this through the TCO on 55.
Up until this time, 70% of the students on the generic courses have been able to obtain their first choice of specialisation, with a further 15% their second choice. This obviously depends on the current priorities of manning platforms, the individuals preference and also their suitability – and greatest potential to succeed – as discussed by the streaming board.
As a further incentive to bright school/6th form college leavers, is the fact that they can now obtain 240 of the 360 credits required towards a foundation degree in aeronautical studies – in partnership with Derby University. Not a bad deal when one considers the financial ‘sponsorship’ the RAF are providing during their time in training. However, the payback comes later with some bloody hard work in dangerous conditions doing an exciting and rewarding job with some of the best mates you will make in your life – I wish him well with his application. PM if you want to know more.
Regards,
Judge Rembrandt.

[Lunch Monitor]

Hello,

Right, here is the gen. Your son needs to get himself to the local AFCO (Armed Forces Careers Office) to get all of the appropriate glossy brochures.

If not satified by the response from the AFCO, make a phone call to the Non-Commissioned Aircrew Liaison Team at RAF Cranwell (part of Inspectorate of Recruiting) Ext 6092. They will guide your son down the right path, and share the correct info.

Hope this helps.

Lunch Monitor

[R 21]

The NCA Liaison Team guiding somone down the right path???

Yeh Right!!!!:confused:

Get your son to write to various stations Public Relation sections and ask to get some work experience and speak to the guys themselves. They will give you the correct gen and not look at it through rose tinted glasses. Both the good and bad points honestly.

[Charlie Luncher]

7'O
Whilst the Judge may look like a little donkey, he has the wisdom of a horse. My life as Airman Aircrew was a blast, like all things in life you get out of it what you put in. Over 18 years I have seen things no one ever else will see, I have done some very satisfying flying, I have made positive and negative differences to peoples lives depending which side they were on, I have been very sad, happy and scared, sometimes all at the same time. Your son will have endless opportunities presented to him what he does with them is well up to him, but along the way he will grow in ways you thought not possible. He also will be part of a crew and develop friends that are above and beyond any he will make in any other life. If I had my time again would I do it again - abso-bloody-lutely, the only thing I would change is to wear nomex when having beer with the Judge.:ugh:
Charlie sends

[J.A.F.O.]

Charlie

Hear, hear. There are few better things to do when you're young than be part of a crew - I had to get out or I wouldn't have ever got old but that's another story, well several stories actually.

Judge

What's this "240 of the 360 credits required towards a foundation degree in aeronautical studies" thing?

SevenO

It's along time since I did it but if that's what he fancies then there are 9,847,672,931 worse things a lad could do.

[R 21]

All new WSOP's going through training get a Foundation in Aeronatical Studies from The University of Derby. Believe it has only been going a short time. All the WSOP's already serving ie the old and bold, can go back finish 3 modules and get the same qualification.

[Wessex Boy]

Go for it!
I did it 20 years ago, but got chucked out for bad behaviour just before I completed the training.:}
I thoroughly enjoyed it, it was great experience and in terms of preparing me for life compared favourably with going to University. (Cheap Beer, higher Pay and 120 hours hanging out of a Wessex)

In my day you got streamed onto a trade at Biggin Hill selection and then it was Swinderby, Finningley AAITC, Finningley ground school, streamed Rotary/Fixed, more Ground school then off to Shawbury for initial flight training on Wessex.
It is hard work but very rewarding.

[El_Presidente]

I once knew a young lad who applied to be an ALM (old money) andwas offered his commission instead... the Muppet accepted as well, and to this day wishedhe'd turned it down and stuck to his guns!

Do you think MAFL/QRs will allow someone to resign a commission and subsequently apply for an NCO post!!?

:}

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Unfortunately as part of the commissioning process they remove many of the vital organs that are the mainstay of us NCA, so no is the answer to your question :E

[Wessex Boy]

We had one guy on 146AAITC that had changed his mind during trade training after passing out from Cranwell and resigned his commission to be NCA.

Luckily they still had the removed parts in storage and were able to re-implant:E

[The Gorilla]

Wessex lad

Your mind is fogging with old age, we had two!

One an ex rock JO who left after the J course and the other who was a JO in ATC or FC branch? Both went on to be Air Eng's, the ex-ATC one is still in and has since been re-commissioned, I agree with seldom's quote about spinal tissue by the way. The ex-rock I have lost touch with, he was working for Oxford Aviation in their ground school until a couple of years ago.

Nice piccs on the other thread by the way, I am in one of them! Fame at last..
:ok:

[El_Presidente]

Gorilla...

Wessex lad

Your mind is fogging with old age, we had two!

One an ex rock JO who left after the J course and the other who was a JO in ATC or FC branch? Both went on to be Air Eng's, the ex-ATC one is still in and has since been re-commissioned, I agree with seldom's quote about spinal tissue by the way.

Such a mean, horrible thing to say...:{ Now being fully Civvy, I was re-issued my vitals on leaving thru the main gate...have them in the kitchen cupboard, next to the pickled eggs.

On a serious note, I hear that the trade is SERIOUSLY undermanned...any experts (remember the definition of an expert)have an insight into how things are with manning/recruitment/retention/moral/work tempo??

And are SAR winchmen still undersubscribed!?

:ok:

[charliegolf]

Whose OBE-winning idea was it to change the system to the WSOp lottery?

And...... why are all the training courses longer (Recruit Trng, AAITC, TT), when the only new aircraft for WSOps since my day are C17 and Merlin?

CG

[Oldandgrey]

They have now reduced the generic course from 24wks to 19wks:ok:

[charliegolf]

Blimey- just because I asked the question?

OK, try this one, why do I earn so little?

Over to you Oldandgrey!:ok:

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Charlie

You missed one :=

[charliegolf]

SFFP

Brush the scales from mine eyes- which one?:confused:

CG

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

The mighty J :ok:

[k1rb5]

Maybe he's right. It's not really new is it?

It's just like a trusty old banger with a new gonk and a sat nav bodge taped to the dash. :ok:

[charliegolf]

There are three HUDs after all on a "J".

Third one in the galley?:}

CG

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

K1rb5

Rumour has it you were sent C17 as the J ground school may have proved your downfall :E

Edited to say I got that from my neighbour....................your old boss :ok:

[k1rb5]

You're bang on there. Never could get to grips with my Garmin. I've always been a bit of a biff :O

Shame though. There are lots of good guys and girls over your way. I hear the 'mafia' is still at it though.:=

Guess I'll have to keep on roughing it out on the 17. Someone's got to do it:ok:

Regards to your neighbour, whoever he is. I've had a few bosses.