MOD Pattern Seiko watch

[BroomstickPilot]

Hi Guys,

I'm a private pilot, but I am hoping the military pilots can provide me with some information about an MOD specification aircrew watch that has disappeared off the civilian market.

Up until about two years ago, (when I was still working for my licence and couldn't afford extras,) it was possible to buy the Seiko MOD pattern watch in high street outlets for about £250. My understanding was that this Seiko was current issue to the RAF/Fleet Air Arm at that time. This instrument was infinitely better than any of the overpriced trash that otherwise passed for pilots' watches in the civilian arena.

Subsequently, this watch disappeared off the market and of course the shop keepers cannot or won't tell me why.

I am curious to know if this watch is still on issue to military aircrew (in which case it must still be being manufactured and might be acquired perhaps by a direct approach to Seiko) or whether the MOD has replaced it with something different.

Best regards to one and all,

Broomstick.

[stickmonkeytamer]

Try ebay- they go for about £80.00
SMT

[airborne_artist]

Clear your PMs so I can tell you the name of a guy who sometimes has them for sale.

SMT - there's a watch dealer who sells the real ex-Mil thing for £250 odd - the Ebay ones I've seen are not the same.

[VitaminGee]

FWIW, the current model is a Pulsar Chronograph which, apparently, is not as good as the Seiko - progress eh?

[rab-k]

CWC watches available here:

http://www.silvermans.co.uk/Silver/docs/topframe.htm

(Watch link: http://www.cwcwatch.com/ )

[Had Enough 77]

I think the actual spec for the watches was to be as cheap as possible and break as quickly as possible, oh and also not really hold time at all. At least the five or six that i had conformed to this standard!:ugh:

They truly are bad watches, dont waste your money on them and buy a good quality watch.:ok:

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

That watch is still current issue and is supplied direct from Seiko (UK) Ltd, SC House, Vanwall Rd, Maidenhead, Berks, SL6 4UW. For what it's worth, the NATO Stock No is 6645-99-995-4268.

The advice on obtaining one you've already been given looks good. If you are buying from eBay, there are copies around, Check that it has Seiko on the back and the NSN, plus the Broad Arrow. If it's one of the civvy marketed ones, it won't have a NSN but the Seiko Type No, 7T27-7A20, instead. The Service watches are Tritium luminised and perform well in the dark. The civvy ones are Promethium luminised and they may as well have not bothered using a radio isotope.

For information, Seiko do a chronograph version of their General Service watch. The details are at; http://www.afeonline.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=240_294&products_id=1569 . It seems to have all the weaknesses of the GS watch which is a curved plastic "glass" that scratches for a hobby. It also doesn't have the 24 hour swept hour pointer.

Had Enough 77 seems to have been very unlucky. They aren't the cheapest watch available and the DEFSTAN it's provisioned against is very stringent (I'd send you link but somebody has been sodding around with the Website, again). I can tell you that for all the thousands issued over the years, up until year 2000 anyway, there was no record of any Form S2022 (stores defect report) being submitted.

[airborne_artist]

The ones I've seen on sale at http://www.chronomaster.co.uk/Seiko%20Watches.htm are like this:

http://www.chronomaster.co.uk/B92_Seiko_mil.JPG

while the ones GBZ suggests are different and they have both pushers on the right for a start:

http://www.afeonline.com/shop/images/SEIKO-SNA027P1-low-res.jpg

[MrBernoulli]

Broomstick,

With the plethora of watches available out there, why would you WANT a military style watch? I really hope you are not the type who will spin stories about a non-existent career in the military ......

[Party Animal]

Broomstick,

I cannot comment on some of the finer details mentioned above however, as a currently serving aircrew officer, I have the same 'issue'watch as the top one of the 2 photo's provided by airborne artist. I exchanged my older style one for the new Seiko type in the early 90's. It still works okay some 15 years later but as my eyes are no longer what they were, I now stick to the Breitling.

I would offer you mine but alas, I have to hand it back on leaving day. Best of luck!

[Wessex Boy]

Having had one of the 'Mickey Mouse' style issue watches when I was briefly an ALM, I found that it 'Shouted' the time at me, it took quite some getting used to, alas I had to return it when i was kicked out.
I am treturning to Private Flying after a 17 year break and am looking at suitable watches as my Vostock Amphibian is a bit fast.
There is an eBay dealer in Switzerland selling the MWC ones for around £100, but Argos are selling 2 versions, a Sekonda one for £80 and a Pulsar version for £40.

There is also the Poljot Aviators (Russian) and the German issue ones that are worth a look
I might go for the Pulsar one and just wear it for flying

[BroomstickPilot]

First of all, thanks to one and all for all the replies: I'm overwhelmed by the response!
Stickmonkeytamer,
I don't trust Ebay, either as a source for goods or as a company to deal with. But thanks all the same.
Airborne_Artist.
Thanks for taking the trouble, but having read Had Enough 77's post, I think I ought to look for something else after all. His experience hasn't been good. £250 is too much to punt on a watch that might disappoint.
VitaminGee,
I'll avoid the Pulsar! Thanks.
Rab K,
Thanks for the reference: I'll take a look at those.
Had enough 77,
Duly noted. As I said to Airborne_Artist I think I'll look elsewhere.
Golf_Bravo_Zulu
Yeah, I have seen that one, but it doesn't have the battery contents gauge that I believe the MOD one used to have and it's an awful lot cheaper; I wonder what else they've left out?
MrBernoulli,
I want to wear a fashion watch for everyday use (kept on local mean time) and something a bit more technical for flying with (which I would keep with my flying kit and permanently on Zulu time). Military stuff is always at least rugged and usually fit for purpose. Oh, and no I don't let on to having a military career.
Party Animal,
Thanks Party Animal: sadly, my finances won't stretch to a Breitling. I believe those cost £100 per year just for servicing!
Wessex Boy,
The other source of watches I have been interested in is Werners Flying Watches. Some of their watches look good, but they are all made by small German manufacturers. You don't really know what your buying. Take a look and see what you think.
Once again, thank you everybody.
Broomstick.

[228 OCU]

Try here:
http://www.mwcwatches.com/shop/index.php?cPath=37&osCsid=dc83317598a1946d12af9adc3fed7d07




If in doubt BANG OUT!

[cynicalint]

With the plethora of watches available out there, why would you WANT a military style watch? I really hope you are not the type who will spin stories about a non-existent career in the military ......


ex-military would not be wearing a military style watch as military aircrew is one of the few jobs that takes a watch off you when you leave.....

[Mmmmnice]

(top picture) still got mine - i have the battery replaced in the high street as i don't hold much hope of ever getting it back if i leave it with 'the system' it runs slightly fast (an improvement over my 'chronograph' B1 which runs irritatingly slow) but i can't read the date unaided anymore - overall not a stylish watch, but it does what it's supposed to, and is free!!

[Pontius Navigator]

I use a Citizen Skyhawk ecodrive. The stop watch function is a bit hard to see. Only problem I have is I need to use the manual to remember how to reset the time - because it only loses about 1-2 seconds per year.

I have the titanium version. AOC 1 Gp has the cheaper stainless steel version :).

[scottyhs]

The seiko chronograph in the bottom picture provided by airborne artist we currently have in stock at work.

I work in a jewellers by the way! :)

[Pontius Navigator]

Very good Ratty, and you found your manual.

I prefer page 380 - Se os botoes (A) e (B) forem pressionado ao mesmo tempo no modo do ...

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Airborne_Artist's top picture is the Seiko Type No 7T27-7A20 and is the civvy version (Promethium luminised) of NSN 6645-99-995-4268, current issue. The lower picture is Seiko's other "military style" chronograph that, I'm pretty certain, will never acquire a NSN.

The Seiko "issue" watch, incidentally, doesn't have a battery level meter. The seconds hand goes in 2 second increments when the battery is about to die, but keeps time.

Good luck.

[Dancing Bear]

Sorry folks,
I can't go along with the fragility of the Seiko pattern flying watch, mine is a "twoer" after a couple of epic conker battles with them whilst very bored and very confused! The best bit was seeing the face of the stores basher as one of victims (a USN exchnage pilot) of my epic conker watch took all the pieces back and lamely tried to explain how he had casued all the damage to crown property.
The cost of your training - millions
The cost of your seiko watch - £250.00
The cost of seeing the stores bashers face - priceless!
Personally I have to say I prefer the old pattern, but hey, there's nothing wrong with my breightling either!

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Dancing Bear

If it's any consolation, Aunty Betty buys the Issue watch at a fraction of the price the civvy one was.

ratty1

Good point; but I used to get paid for it.

[BluntedAtBirth]

Nice to see a topic that can get you gentlemen almost as enthused as leather jackets. But I was wondering, how would a person have a working aircrew watch, with NSN and MOD arrow, to sell on e-bay...

[ProfessionalStudent]

... But I was wondering, how would a person have a working aircrew watch, with NSN and MOD arrow, to sell on e-bay...

Well, I thought the answer would be obvious. It would be being sold by an RAF scuffer who had blagged it off the guy in tech stores in return for turning a blind eye to a "parking violation". :=

[J.A.F.O.]

there's nothing wrong with my breightling either

If it's spelt like that on the front, may I suggest that there is something very wrong with it indeed.

Stores stole my watch off me when I left, I'd had the same one for my whole service and, while it sometimes told the right time, it was the least stylish thing I've ever seen and why someone would pay actually folding stuff for one I don't know. The one I handed back has probably been on eBay by now.

Ah well, each to their own.

[LuckyBreak]

"FWIW, the current model is a Pulsar Chronograph which, apparently, is not as good as the Seiko - progress eh?"

Pulsar is made by Seiko, so i assume the MOD were just enticed by the cheaper model of the same watch. Just think Audi A3 and Skoda Oktavia....

[ProfessionalStudent]

Pulsar is made by Seiko, so i assume the MOD were just enticed by the cheaper model of the same watch. Just think Audi A3 and Skoda Oktavia....

But is it any good at conkers? That's the question you have to ask yourself. I mean, they're a bit "Bling" to actually WEAR.

[Hot Charlie]

"FWIW, the current model is a Pulsar Chronograph which, apparently, is not as good as the Seiko - progress eh?"
Pulsar is made by Seiko, so i assume the MOD were just enticed by the cheaper model of the same watch. Just think Audi A3 and Skoda Oktavia....
And with a different strap is £40 in Argos.
Watch (http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/2773191/Trail/C%24cip%3D50518.Jewellery%2Band%2BWatches%3EC%24cip%3D50559. Men%26%2339%3Bs%2Bwatches%3EC%24Brand%3DPulsar.Pulsar.htm)

[The Ferret]

Broomstick - I wore a CWC and then a Seiko Aircrew Chronograph watch (eventually with a date) for 28 years in the Service - while they were adequate for second timing for what we needed them for (and made great conkers in the bar!) - if you want split second timing and a top quality watch thrown in start saving up for your choice of Breitling instead! The Chronometre Aerospace is a far superior watch - put your GBP250 toward the first installment!

The Ferret:cool: :cool: :cool:

[reallydeskbound]

Seeing as we are having a really good time discussing the pros and cons of watches can any of you help me, my aircrew watch second hand is stuck at the 16 seconds position - i.e. it returns to this position when the stop watch is reset!

Now a friendly nav told me once how to sort this out, in fact he used to p**s pilots off by borrowing their watches and setting the second hand at some arbituary position, but the mists of time have seen me forget.

Can anyone help?:confused:

[airborne_artist]

A quick came of conkers should fix it :E

[Dancing Bear]

Reallydeskbound, with the expectation of inbound about being a watch spotter I will attempt to help!

Pull out the crown to the first click and then push one of the other 3 buttons, all control one of the functions, am not that much of a spotter (nor am I obviously able to spell breightling/brieghtling - oh whatever!!) to be able to tell you which button does what but hope it helps!

DB

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

LuckyBreak

You are, indeed, right. The Pulsar watch is being provisioned via Seiko in place of the Seiko one we've been discussing. The reason I couldn't find the Defence Standard for is because Def Stan 66-4 Part No 2 (open to everyone on the DEFSTAN Website) has been cancelled.

BroomstickPilot

Thank you for your question as it has exposed a possible anomaly in the application of NATO Codification.

[Stuff]

Mine looks a bit like the top picture except I have the Seiko branding at the 12 o'clock position and the 3 o'clock is filled with a 1/10s dial.

It's genuine issue so I guess I got one of the previous generation :confused:

[Hot Charlie]

Oh god now a military forum is discussing Argos. Its a watch you sad bunch of giffers.

My humble apologies, but it was a shock to go and find the watch the happy chap in stores had given me was available in said boutique for £40.

At least £20 more than one was expecting.:}

[Feneris]

I've had my issue Seiko nearly 3 years and it's been fine. However, there have been a lot of faulty ones, and it became a joke how often mates on course were returning them to stores faulty. I wouldn't waste my money on one, unless I could get it for a lot less than £100. Much better stuff out there. I've never used it in the air, aircraft clock much better.

[Oggin Aviator]

I always used to use my Omega Seamaster all the time except when flying with a goon suit with the rubber wrist seals - to prevent damage by the Omega's metal strap - then I put on my issue Seiko. Unfortunately the Omega's strap just broke, it costs shedloads to replace, so I am currently using the Seiko again. I have had mine for 10 years, it never loses time and it is generally OK.

[TheWizard]

Anyone know where I can get a new hand for my watch as Mickeys arm fell off during a vigorous game of Mess rugby? I am not sure if there is a NSN for this watch but would appreciate any advice from all the experts that frequent this thread :} :8

[rugmuncher]

Izzy Wizzy Lets Get Busy!

http://cgi.ebay.com/1930s-INGERSOLL-MICKEY-MOUSE-WATCH-RESTORATION-SERVICE_W0QQitemZ110089121442QQihZ001QQcategoryZ47122QQcmdZV iewItem

[TheWizard]

You Sir, have too much time on your hands!!:E



See what I did there?!!

[NutLoose]

you can buy ex military watches from Anchor Supplies, just down the road from me..........

see

http://www.anchorsupplies.com/horo.htm

they have the Seiko here

http://www.anchorsupplies.com/Qseiko.htm

[Saintsman]

Government surplus watches for about £40

http://www.edisposals.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/Disposals-Public-Site/en_US/-/GBP/ViewProductDetail-Start;pgid=MieqQ4wkQg8000ArvQ_8K1sp0000ssfEmsnl?ProductUUID= wSTAqBELkTkAAAEEWQsH%2eKSw&CatalogCategoryID=advAqBELJQsAAAD_hahpc4dz&JumpTo=OfferList

[oli,_the_original]

I have the Citizen Skyhawk Ecodrive like P-N as well, and it is the best watch that i have ever had. The wheel on the outside is good as well, as its got me out of the brown stuff a few times when ive forgotten my flight computer. Good in non calculator maths exams as well:}

[Navy_Adversary]

As well as the surplus watches, there are a few aircraft up for grabs, a Jag, Bucc, 5 Tucanos and a couple of Scottish fisheries F406 reims, who needs e-bay?:)

[J.A.F.O.]

The Bucc is sold on an “as seen and as were lying” basis. now did they miss out the h or the ' ?

[Supermattt]

Hello everyone,

Has anyone any experience of a Seiko Flightmaster SND253? Is it just a gimmicky piece of junk or an ok watch?

Thanks
Matt

[Farfrompuken]

Pulsar is made by Seiko, so i assume the MOD were just enticed by the cheaper model of the same watch. Just think Audi A3 and Skoda Oktavia....
That comparison would imply that the Pulsar is a better watch than the Seiko, which as we all know isn't the case.
Own a Seiko Flightmaster Kinetic, best watch I've had, but the Citizen Skyhawk Titanium was V nice (close second!). Almost perfect time-keeping, but face scratched very easily.
Another great watch for flying is the Casio Pro-Trek series. Ginagorous digits, perfect for flying and indestructible. Mine gives me QFE (+/- 1 Mb) which can be handy on det.

[Regain]

Micky Mouse wears a Navy watch!

Head down now.