Flying in Germany - Advice Please

[CapCon]

Hi All,

In June I'm planning to fly from Stapleford down to Munich. This will be my first flight into Germany and was wondering if anyone could give me any advice about flying in Germany i.e. Are there any significant differences compared to the UK or France? Obviously I will need to brush up on my Deutsch.

I'll be flying a C172 down through France and then head into Germany around Strasbourg. I've identified 2 destination airfields: Dachau and Oberschleissheim. Has anyone flown into these before?

Finally, I'm hoping to spend about 10 days in Germany, has anyone got any recommendations for places to fly to? Am definately going to head down towards the Austrian Alps.

It would be good to hear any experiences good or bad.

Cheers,

CapCon

[172driver]

CapCon, first of all, while your Deutsch will come in handy ordering the beer after your flight, you don't need it for ATC - they are excellent and speak English. The only places you might need it are really, really small airfields, but even there pretty much everybody does speak English.

You will most likely be assigned a discreet squawk code when crossing into Germany, if not, there is one anomaly: below 5000 ft the VFR code is 0021, above 5000 ft it's 0022 instead of the 7000 you're probably used to.

Can't comment on the airfields around Munich, but most people based there seem to use Augsburg.

The Austrian Alps are a great place to fly, but DO brush up on your mountain flying beforehand !! If you don't have any experience, ask a local to come with you on the first flight into the mountains. The hazards, btw, are not limited to the usual wx-related dangers, but also be very aware of hanggliding and sailplane activity, especially on weekends. As you say you'll be going in June, consider very early starts for your alpine flying, as thermals (and TCs) tend to build up starting late morning. That said, a flight through the Alps on a cool morning is one of the best things you can do in a small a/c :ok:

PM me if you need some local contacts in Austria.

[CapCon]

Thanks for the replies so far.

I've had a look at the websites for Augsburg and Jesenwang and both look like nice airfields to visit.

172driver, thanks for the advice on mountain flying. I was hoping to get some mountain instruction with a school in Munich. Seems like an opportunity not to be missed.

Cheers,

CapCon

[Volume]

Transponder codes have just been changed to 7000 in Germany, too.
Compared to France (have not flown in the U.K. yet, too much water in between...) german airfiels are more controlled. Although the person on the tower is just called "info" and should just provide information, many of them feel like grown up air traffic controlers and try to tell you what to do. Ignoring this may cause some discussion. Following the published traffic pattern is essential, as many neighbours are noise-sensitive and take any opprtunity to suit for airport closure. During weekends the airspace can be full of gliders in some areas.
Oberschleissheim (http://www.airports.de/airport/flugplatz-oberschleissheim.html) homes a nice aircraft museum, and is one of germans oldest airfields. Like many others, it is PPR, which means you have to phone a special number a reasonable time before arrival to ask for a permission to land. For many airfields this means some retired pilot will drive to the airport, and officially open it for you. Many of them are happy to escape their wives and their home duties for some hours, to chat with a pilot ;) For Oberschleissheim I do not know, if there are flying schools or maintenance companies based there, it is normally open SR-SS or 9am to 8pm, whichever is shorter. Anyway, you have to call before going there. If chatting with old german pilots, don´t mention the war :E
German airspace is full of class C airspace around the larger airports and restricted areas, so some route planning is necessary. Wheather is like in the U.K. except it takes a little longer before it becomes fine again. You can easily be trapped in drizzling rain for weeks north of the alps if you are unlucky. Low clouds often block several routes through mountain areas.
Rothenburg ob der Tauber (http://www.airports.de/airport/flugplatz-rothenburg.html) is famous for the ancient city (the japanese come to take photos there), and it is within walking distance from the airport.
Coburg (http://www.airports.de/component/option,com_mtree/task,viewlink/link_id,86/) has a nice castle close to the airfield (you pass it by when approaching runway 12)
enjoy germany

[stickandrudderman]

A little out of your way perhaps, but I THOROUGHLY recommend a trip into Berlin Templehof. You get to fly right over the city and land in a fascinating time warp of an airport!:ok:

[CapCon]

Thanks for the info Volume. I'm hoping to fly a few passes around King Ludwig's castle at Neuschwanstein, which I reckon will be fairly impressive.

Berlin Templehof sounds like a good idea. I intend to visit some friends in Hamburg on the return leg so Berlin could be a good visit.

Cheers everyone, keep 'em coming

CapCon

[acuba 290]

there is also nice place to land EDML, Landshut. with sort of popular school there http://www.flugausbildung.de/

[Bob Stinger]

Will be in Germany myself around the end of March , anybody know where I could hire something around Paderborn?
Cheers
Bob

[sierracharlie]

Transponder codes have just been changed to 7000 in Germany, too.
Effective date for the transponder change is 15th March 2007.

[Ni Thomas]

The initial question "...............Dachau and Oberschleissheim. Has anyone flown into these before?"

No idea regarding Dachau, but flew into Oberschleissheim about 3 years ago .... just checked log book .... it was in June 2003 ... how time flies! ...
A nice place - friendly people - They put our aeroplanes away in their packed hanger overnight - unasked and free - Avgas available and cheap landing fee.
The runway is/was about 800m long and appeared quite wide, but be careful as only a narrow section (ithink it was the southern portion) was useable as runway.
We landed (6 aeroplanes were on tour around Germany, Czech Rep., Hunrgary, Slovinia etc.) in quick succession on runway 08. This necessitates a backtrack to exit the runway at the threshold of 08. A/c's were asked to hold on the northern side of the runway whilst other traffic landed (including home bases SLG's etc) The landing traffic was very close and one hoped that they didn't screw it up and that their braking was a) reliable and b) ...errr.... careful. :bored: Once a gap appeared in the landing traffic and cleared by Schleisheim Radio, we all made a mad dash to backtrack and exit the runway as fast as our little Goodyears would allow us!
I seem to remember that we used the ex-Olympic rowing track (Track? Rowing? Well anyway, the long thin water lake thing) as the turn point from left base onto final for 08.
Have a nice flight.
Other than that, a pleasant stay and adequate access to Munich.

[BCS112]

Hi,

I've heard that Koblenz (EDRK) is also supposed to be a fantastic airfield to visit.

To me one of the things to remember in Germany is that the fuel can be very expensive in some airfields, even compared to what we pay in Belgium.
When we flew to Finland last last we paid 2.04€/litre in Wilhelmshavn and even 2.08€/litre in Bremen ! Compared to the 1.72€ in Belgium at the time and 1.04€ in Sweden these where really crazy prices !

Enjoy the trip !
Björn

[Tall_guy_in_a_152]

You will receive a good discount on landing fees in Germany if you have a noise certificate- or rather, you will be surcharged if you do not.

Noise certificates are available from the CAA for most aircraft types and I think they are free.

[Miserlou]

Ampfing has a good restaurant and skydiving to keep one visuallly entertained. Breitscheid also has a restaurant and hotel on-site.

I've had a lot of good times in Germany, good flying atmosphere.

[Late_Bloomer]

Hi CapCon,

If you are an user of the FS2004 and you are interested on the german ATC, just have a look at www.vatsim.net (http://www.vatsim.net) and especially at the german part: www.vacc-sag.org (http://www.vacc-sag.org)
All you need is the Flightsimulator (Version 2002 or later) and a working headset on your pc.
Just sign up VATSIM for free and download the connection software, named Squawkbox or FSInn.

There you`ll find the same rules in virtually flying than in the real world and you can virtuall visit your destinations and look, how the ATC works.

You will be fascinated, how realistic and professional the virtuall ATC works.
For further questions, you can mail me: [email protected] or just look out for the Deputy Chief of the vBerlin FIR at VATSIM ;)

[Bob Stinger]

Will be in Germany myself around the end of March , anybody know where I could hire something around Paderborn?
Cheers
Bob

[CapCon]

Thanks for the link LB.

Does it work with FSX? I've already used the sim to fly around a couple of the airfields around Munich. It will be interesting to see just how accurate they are.

Cheers,

CapCon

[courchevel]

Hi Bob,
Since you keep asking, this is an address I know from the internet, but I haven't rented a plane there by myself. I have landed in Bielefeld, and found the airfield a very pleasant place.
http://flugplatz-bielefeld.de/LSV.htm
3 x C152 98,00 CVFR und Garmin in GPS 195
2 x C172 und 2 x PA28-161 118,50 CVFR und externe GPS Antenne
C 172R 122,00 CVFR
1 x PA 28-181 Archer 2 x AG-5B Tiger 128,00 CVFR
Bielefeld is the city's name and is about 35 miles from Paderborn.

[bookworm]

You will be fascinated, how realistic and professional the virtuall ATC works.
For further questions, you can mail me: or just look out for the Deputy Chief of the vBerlin FIR at VATSIM

Realistic? The vBerlin FIR. Aren't you a little behind the times? ;)

[CapCon]

Hi All,

Well the flight draws closer and I'm starting to prepare the route. I've just found out that Germany is one of the few EU countries that doesn't allow free access to their AIP. Is there any way of seeing the current AIP without paying the hefty price?

Cheers, CapCon

[bookworm]

The IFR AIP is available via the EAD (www.ead.eurocontrol.int). This has all the GEN and ENR stuff you're likely to need for flight planning, it's just missing the VFR plates. Have you found www.eddh.de yet?

[CapCon]

Thanks Bookworm,

The EAD program is exactly what I was looking for. I hadn't found eddh.de but looks like it will be useful.

Thanks again for your help,

CapCon

[172driver]

Also check out http://www.airports.de/