Lock-and-loadmaster

[dogdriver]

The Westminster Hall debate on 30th Jan included a reference to an RAF Herc loadie finding himself patrolling the streets of Iraq.

"...someone joined the RAF in a specialist role—they had been trained in packing equipment to be loaded on to Hercules aircraft for logistical purposes—and found themselves suddenly taken on a short, sharp training course to go into a peacekeeping role in Iraq on the front line...The concern raised ... was not that it was a deployable skill—they recognised that it would be deployed—but that the person was being deployed to do a peacekeeping role on the streets, on the front line, and that they were not being deployed to use their skill. The concern was that the person was being used not in an RAF regimental role but in a military role with the Army."

I'm assuming either the MP has seriously got the wrong end of the stick - no aircrew in their right mind would end up boots on ground, and no infantry unit in their right mind would welcome them - but wanted to double-check if anyone had heard of this story (raised with the MP of West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) or anything similar?

[greycoat]

Where does it state that the person was a loadie? The description could apply equally as well to a mover. Cue yet another thread bashing movers.

[ATCO17]

"Warfighter first, Specialist second"!!:O

[wg13_dummy]

Who the **** would want a shiny arsed mover on patrol with them???


I'd rather have Steven Hawkins coving my 6 with a pintle mounted GPMG on his chair.

[BEagle]

He could always make the nasty Sonny & Cher lot a nice cup of tea......

Which, in fact, would probably be a whole lot more useful than letting some steroid-chewing idiot with Rambo pretensions loose on the streets with a belt fed .50 calibre machine gun M-60 to 'assist with reconstruction'....:hmm: ?

[wg13_dummy]

Hows the moon from your planet Beags?? :uhoh:

[1000CC'soffun]

:rolleyes:
I must have been bored, I just spent half an hour looking on the Parliament website for more information, what a waste of time.

Best I trot off and zero my Rifle then.

[16 blades]

if the guy was a loady, what makes him different from your experienced Q holding Harrier, F3, GR4,Typhoon, Sentry or Jag NCO / SNCO

ALOT. HE is Aircrew. They are not (Sentry excepted perhaps). Ground one member of a crew and you have lost that whole crew from the tasking plot.

Haven't spent much time out of the Fast Jet world, have you?

16B

[dionysius]

Sounds like he may be a Supplier :eek:

[Filthy]

Gents,

whilst in Afg crewing albert all crew members were trained in patrolling and CP skills prior to deploying. This was a self preservation skill.

I have to agree warfighter first-specialist second...it may be useful when you least expect it....

[charliegolf]

Garth (can't remember his name), a crewman on 72 Sqn used to go on patrols from Bessie in the 80s. For fun!
CG

[Rheinstorff]

Sounds like the usual ill-informed parliamentary debate on defence issues, where the MP can't be bothered to find out the facts, or thinks he knows what he's talking about without checking. He probably just means going outside of a defended location on the ground.

Patrolling 'the streets' (or any other part of Iraq or Afghanistan) is fundamentally soldier (generic) business, ie, for those who are trained for the purpose. Anyone else attempting it is asking for trouble and would probably be a liability in a contact.

[QFIhawkman]

I quote filthy: "whilst in Afg crewing albert all crew members were trained in patrolling and CP skills prior to deploying. This was a self preservation skill."


Have I got this right? You believe that all the Herc crews did the 2 week IRT course at Honington? Or do you mean the 1 day comedy IRT course at Lyneham?

I've done both and the 1 day course doesn't equip you one jot to patrol on the streets. The 2 week course is similarly no good at turning Officer Aircrew into junior Rambos, but it at least gives you an idea of how to stay alive so that you're not quite so much a hinderance to your escort when going into town. I'd still say that niether of these courses can promote your CCS "skills" to budding Infantryman, not by a long shot.

Oh and I DO hope that by CP skills you don't mean Close Protection?
If not please feel free to correct me as I'm not aware of any other acronym using those letters. (Genuinely).


Either way, the man in the parliamentary question would appear to be a supplier or a mover on convoy duties. A common occurence.

[Rheinstorff]

C130 crews do get bespoke additional trg, from their tame Rocks, to prepare them if they land somewhere less friendly than planned. It would be quite inappropriate to go into the detail of what's involved for the obvious OPSEC reasons.

[Faithless]

WG 13

"Who the **** would want a shiny arsed mover on patrol with them???"


"I'd rather have Steven Hawkins coving my 6 with a pintle mounted GPMG on his chair."

Priceless:D It was that funny that I p1ssed myself:ok:

[Master Gunner]

Yes I was that man nicknamed Garth, but I never did anything as mad as going on patrol on the ground in Bandit Country. However, I do recall that there were a couple of aircrew on 72 who managed to get out with the army (a tall, cricket playing scotsman by the the name of Scott was one). We thought flying in NI was dangerous then, but given the current world hotspots it paints a very different picture. Take care all you frontliners. DC

[Faithless]

"I think what made you wee is called incontinence"

I know....Just ask your mom:E

[The Helpful Stacker]

As I mentioned on the 'arrse' thread about this very subject I reckon there has been a slight mix-up.

As many of us on here are no doubt aware the RAF operates mainly three types of pre-deployment course for folk heading somewhere hot and sandy.

The 'vicars and tarts' course, for those off to Al Udeid etc - A day in your local rock shop being told to drink lots of water when its hot (like, doh) and leave scorpions alone.

The 'you might have to stag on at Basrah' course - A week at either your local rock shop if on a large unit or somewhere like High Wycombe if from a small unit, learning how to get out of a vehicle quickly should an Iranian backed nut job manage to set up an ambush outside J1 village and spring it whilst you are heading around to buy a Subway in one of the knackered Land Rovers.

The 'you either have to fly the things we are here to support or your trade is so low down the pecking order that we have decided you are going to play target to draw attention away from the nice big fuel tanker convoy' course - For those folk who may find themselves outside the wire quite a bit, whether in the air or in the back of a stripped down Land Rover on their way to Al Amarah etc.


To me it sounds like either they are aircrew who have been given the latter course in case they should find themselves in the middle of the desert standing next to the smoking remains of a recently serviceable a/c or a mover who for some strange reason has got lost and isn't damaging a/c on the pan or losing luggage but is actually outside the wire playing target to the friendly locals.

BTW, to whoever suggested it sounds like a stacker, that can't be right because I'm sure I'm about the only one in the trade who deploys away (as they seem to come around so often)......:rolleyes:

[Rheinstorff]

See my post from yesterday; C130 crews receive bespoke training from the RAF Regt. This is different from the other types of Individual Reinforcement/Pre-Deployment Training.

[I_stood_in_the_door]

No doubt Stevie hawkins would have the ability to win the firefight in his armoured wheelchair better than most of our blue bretheren!!

Does he have a special brake on his chariot to prevent himself being propelled backwards or does he have an action man stylee 'Sustained Fire Kick Ass Rambo Drawer of First Blood' Wheelchair?

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em!!

LGOGOOTFW

ISITD

:oh:

[irishlogster]

tut tut he;pful... me does sum too... 2nd one in 20 months :ouch:

[oldbilbo]

At times in the late 70s/early 80s, there was an OPREQ to fly team members of the Sultan's Special Force from Thumrait ( near their base) to the capital, using two-seat Jaguars, PDQ, while the rest of the team went by whatever was available - a BAC-111 or Herc. So they had to be potty-trained. Good sport!

They tried to reciprocate, and one of the distractions they came up with was to put volunteers through their CQB course. Visualise, if you will, a line of assorted, superannuated and hungover single-seat jocks in a line, shuffling along through a 'toytown' range, carrying live-loaded 9mm handguns and told to respond to the various pop-up targets - left, right, centre and behind......:uhoh::uhoh:

The other distraction was an invitation to go on patrol with them, on the several occasions they were directed to perform in 'ordinary infantry' mode, and do Aggressive Patrolling of a chunk of the Jebel. The local opposition, the 'adu', usually tried something on, little realising what a hornet's nest they were stirring up. Each time a contact report was made, where one of the aircrew 'tourists' was involved, that was patched through to Thumrait Ops and every Jag and Hunter that could find an excuse went haring over there to see what was going on. Tasking? Huh? ;);)

[CommonSenseApproach]

And there was I logging-on this morning after a long and dusty trip expecting that this thread would describe the circumstances that lead to a recent “up-ending” of one of our Alberts some where “in theatre”. “Lock-and-loadmaster”; Pallet locks and Load Master perhaps? A desire to tweak the trim somewhat by moving the forward pallet further forward (or was it to make room for the rations?), yet forgetting that on the J the release mechanism for pallets works from rear to front (the front pallet being the last to be disengaged in a sequence designed for jettison). The action therefore of releasing the pallets allowed the load to roll backwards and whilst the rear pallet stopped when it hit the door (the ramp was co-planer e.g. at the horizontal, but the door was down). The shift of gravity caused a effect on the front enders horizon similar to that of the slide down which Virgil Tracy sped en route to Thunderbird 2. Per Ardua ad Astra? Well at least the front enders were facing the right way!:rolleyes:
The thing that I find most perturbing is:
a. The ac was already in trim before this strange behaviour took place.
b. There were no movers in sight to blame (and even if they had been it had been loaded in trim):ugh:

Any J types care to comment?:rolleyes:

[Useless Arthur]

I've always found there's plenty of chance to get out and about when you're on a Det. No point in just going through the routine for 4 months. It must be the Walt in me, but on my TELIC stint a year or so ago, I managed to get a place on a Logs convoy to the SAAH and a 2-day trip from Shaibah to Abu Naji (and back!).

Got a good appreciation of what the army lads go through and the complexities of moving food, water and spares on the roads out there.

RTAs, top cover, break downs and a "come on" IED made the trips well worthwhile.

[Blakey875]

Commonsense - Who was the Loadie? ABIW??

[Now a 'J' Bloke!!]

Dear Common Sense Bloke;

You got any hard evidence...
or are you a mover???:ouch:

NAJB:cool:

[Blakey875]

NAJ - Sorry for delay whilst waiting for confirmation. Yes - it did happen in province next to Helmand. Am advised it was a Loadie incident and no Movers present the Loadie claimed locks were u/s. Since disproved.

[dionysius]

Ah, Samuraimatt back "fishing" again............:=

[eyespied]

C130 - I am amazed you got away without being challenged. if you knew the event happened why didn't you confirm to 'Now a J?'

1. How can you blame the Movers when you weren't there?
2. They weren't there and the Acft door was down...
3. First rule of Flight safety - Don't Assume .... Check!
4. Still a stupid trick to unlock the whole load at once?

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

The latest rumour is a problem with the -4 which my source assures me the engineers are attributing to years of mis handling by the movers :ok:

Seems utterly plausible to me

[gar170]

Well no surprise there then:rolleyes: .

So if there was a problem with the -4 then how did the movers manage to lock in the load?.

I think its more the case that the loadie started to believe your own press written on here and you are all perfect.
**** happens or is the case of what goes around comes around.

[Mobile Muppet]

Seem to remember being in Kuwait City 03 when the same thing happened.
Loadie pulled all the locks to assist a QTR but the a/c was on an angled pan. The 2 movers coming to the a/c at the time made sure the mess ( 3 Pallets worth at various angles on the ground ) was cleaned up quickly and helped the loadie out without a word. But as usual got no thanks and no ground incident report raised either... makes you wonder why we bother to help eh !

**** happens.. and will continue to happen to us all...

MM

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

MM

Have a word with yourself, if the two movers had carried out their duties a little more dilligently and chocked the load that incident you refer to would never have occured, and all these subsequent ground incidents would stop if you lot got your act together, bloo@y movers :p

[gar170]

Seldomfitforlife

Maybe you should ask PMA to transfere you to oc movs i am sure that the trade has been crying out for a massiah like person as yourself.
I am sure if you managed to create the world in 6 days you should be able to fix the RAF's main problem area.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Gar,

Are you actually implying that the movements trade are "the RAF's main problem area"? :E

[Mobile Muppet]

SFFP
Your rantings do make me chuckle. Reading back through your previous posts on other topics it's clear to me and from other posters that you are infact a top to$$er. If your way of venting your anger or hatred is via this forum so be it but it's very sad to be honest for an adult. (It certinaly is'nt banter).

Go and have an "anti-movs" group hug with AWIB. :)

MM

[gar170]

Seldomfitforlife

According to you maybe := .

But i would actually say it is really narrow minded self opinionated arses such as you.
And i mean that in a nice way:ok: .

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

MM,

Don't pour scorn on me luvvie as it's Gar who is suggesting that the movements trade are "the RAF's main problem area" and not me as I think you are all great :ok:

[Blakey875]

Seldom - Your'e ignorance of matters AT is now obvious. Quote " If the Movers had chocked the load...". They weren't at the aircraft by the time the Loadie had unlocked the load for Heaven's sake. I would love to hear a comment from Mr Perfect a.k.a. ABIW.....
Roll on 2012

[Blakey875]

Sam - Yes and for years before that on the USAF, RCAF, Brazilian, Belgian and even Iranian C130 models....

[I_stood_in_the_door]

Chaps,

Saucer of milk anyone?

Movers are fab - I want to be one!!

ISITD

LFOGOOTFW

:E

[November4]

Sam
That sounds like a case of - oh bu$$er he does know what he is talking about - quick change the subject and pick him up on his grammatical error.....!!:mad:

[Echo 5]

ISITD,

Have you joined the Grim person in the light blue yet ?

Regards,

E5:D

[Echo 5]

ISITD,

Got your PM. Cheers.

E5:)

[samuraimatt]

Sam
That sounds like a case of - oh bu$$er he does know what he is talking about - quick change the subject and pick him up on his grammatical error.....!!:mad:

I really doubt he does know what he is talking about. Well do you Blakey? Can yo explain what could have gone wrong with the locking system?

[Echo 5]

Samuraimatt,
A few months ago you were on about becoming NCA. Have you done anything about it yet cos you're still waxing on like an agitated Air Cadet/6th Former.
When you've taken the Queens Shilling and got some time in, then and only then will you be entitled to question the authenticity of the qualifications of Blakey and some others on this Forum.
I joined up with a guy from Gillingham many years ago and he was an arrse.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Sam,

Take no notice of Blakey as he is always a bit of a grump on matters of this ilk, between you and me I think he had a go at the NCA route way before you and I and..............well draw your own conclusions :rolleyes:

[Echo 5]

" Sam,
Take no notice of Blakey as he is always a bit of a grump on matters of this ilk, between you and me I think he had a go at the NCA route "


Wrong !!

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Are you certain ZH as he often has that wannabee whine in some of his posts :p

[ZH875]

Are you certain ZH as he often has that wannabee whine in some of his posts :pDunno what you mean, I haven't contributed to this topic. Could it be that 875 imposter, Blakey that you are thinking of?:)

[Echo 5]

I think Samuraimatt and his mate Seldom may have been at the saki and are getting their wires crossed.;)

[Blakey875]

Sorry Guys - been away. Samurai - The Loadie has put his hand up to this so stop making mischief. On looking at your threads since Jul 06 you seem very opinionated - but you've never been in the Military or even Air Cadets? Me try for NCA? Naw - they were actually AQM's and mostly ex-Storemen when I started and we have standards....

[GPMG]

Your not too keen on ground forces then Beags?

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Blakey,

No suprises there but you are wrong := and you still sound like you are in denial on the wannabee thing :rolleyes:

[samuraimatt]

The Loadie has put his hand up to this so stop making mischief.

That is not what I have heard.


On looking at your threads since Jul 06 you seem very opinionated

Is that a pot and a kettle over there.

No worries Echo your little lap dog will be along soon to tell us the real truth.

[Echo 5]

" No worries Echo your little lap dog will be along soon to tell us the real truth "
Whats all that about then ?

From one of my previous posts
" I joined up with a guy from Gillingham many years ago and he was an arrse."
See you've now moved to Guilford (without the D). Well I suppose there are some arrses there too.

Bottom line is: samuraiprat and seldomfit are probably a couple Air Cadets who post total nonsense on subjects they know nothing about but just want to play with the adults. It did cross my mind that they could be one and the same person.

GPMG,
" Your not too keen on ground forces then Beags? "
Has a post been deleted here cos I haven't seen anything from BEagle on this thread ?

[samuraimatt]

40 minutes!!!! Blimey you are slipping Echo 5. Its just too easy.

[Echo 5]

" 40 minutes!!!! Blimey you are slipping Echo 5. Its just too easy."

Do you really think that everyone is just sitting back waiting to have a giggle at your latest attempt at humour. Some of us do work for a living. Oh, you won't be hearing from Blakey tonight cos he's on night shift.

By the way, I see that you and your mate seldomfit have been deleting posts again. As I recall you posted at 10:40 this morning and your mate at 10:50.
Felt a little bit silly after considering what tosh you had posted, did you ?

Good night..................you're boring me now:bored:

Oi Oi...........No sooner than samuraiprat logs off, then seldomfit logs on. Bit of a coincidence or what !!:confused:

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Now now Echo,

Have you been at the gin young man :rolleyes: What was it I deleted as I don't remember doing it :confused:

[Echo 5]

Seldom,
I stand corrected (without apology) , the posts that I alluded to were on the other thread, and as mentioned previously are still a load of tosh.

Samuraiprat,
Firstly, as I've said before, when you get some time in, and about 10 years would just about suffice, then you cannot banter with the grown ups. Also, even in the unlikely event that you may have something sensible to say, do not PM me again.
At one point yesterday you had a total of about 93 posts to your credit. I note that as of a few moments ago that has been greatly reduced to 77. Covering our tracks are we ? Black Omega parked at the end of your street ?
Surprised the Feds can keep up with you. Gillingham, Guilford(sic), and now Goatacre. You on the run or what ?

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Corrected with no apology........that will do nicely........ you sir are a true gentleman :ok:

[Echo 5]

Seldomfit,
Well, ok , I'll just stand to be corrected then. Not fair to blame you for the manic ramblings of samuraiprat.
Still, if you continue to echo ( no pun) his thoughts you are liable to be tarred with the same brush.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

I am my own man and after all these years I echo no one, so fear not on that one.

As regards Blakey I never for one moment believed he was a failed ALM applicant............ but like his previous nemisis I do so enjoy pulling the grumpy old f*cka's chain :E