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Byrna
4th Feb 2007, 22:08
Hello everyone,
Through my experience with flight simulation and the STAR charts for Schipol airport (EHAM/AMS) I have learned that within the 30NM radius of SPL VOR, during daytime approaches, ATC vectors the aircraft to their ILS intercept points and RNAV navigation is not used, except at night (after about 22:00 /21:00 UTC winter/summer).
Apparently, the reason being, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that with vectoring, more planes can be packed into the same airspace than if RNAV is used during approaches.
My question is how does vectoring create more planes in the same space and still keep a safety margin which allows for human error by the pilot (or ATC) or other planes veering off course on such a busy airport with 6 runways and so much traffic? I guess for someone who has only seen documentaries of how ATC and pilots really fly in real life, I was a bit overwhelmed about how manual vectoring can be done at such a busy airport. I wonder if any real-life ATCs out there can comment on this? And input from pilots regarding how they "train" or prepare for their first flight into Amsterdam Schipol would be much appreciated.
I have actually flown to Schipol back in the 80's and 90's in real life and find to be a spectacularly well-organized and clean airport but having flown in my flight simulation (again using FAA charts) into busy airports with multiple parallel runways like Atlanta Hartsfield-Jackson (KATL) or Los Angeles LAX, it must be quite a change to fly into an equally busy airport like EHAM but with manual vectoring and non-parallel runways. Though, I also know that approaches (or departures) are simultaneous on 1,2 and maybe even 3 parallel runways only depending on peak periods, at Schipol, and not all runways are in use (obviously).
Any input and comment would be much appreciated.
John

Avman
5th Feb 2007, 10:37
I believe that with the exception of GA traffic on the GA runways, AMS only uses three main runways at one time. According to expected peaks these will be 2 for deps and 1 for arr; or 1 for deps and 2 for arr. Various permutaions are used. As for the virtues of vectoring, I'll let an approach controller explain that one to you ;)

HEATHROW DIRECTOR
5th Feb 2007, 12:45
John.. You need to understand much more about the function of ATC, which is highly complex as you suggest.

For a major airport like Amsterdam, procedures are laid down regarding the use of runway and what ground equipment is available, eg ILS, VOR/DME, NDB, etc. ATC procedures are then formulated to enable these facilities to be used with the greatest efficiency - ie packing as many aircraft in to the airport as ground facilities will allow.

Air Traffic Controllers are, like pilots, highly trained professionals. They complete a basic training course but then the major part of their training takes place at the ATC unit to which they are posted so that they can operate "solo". Until they qualify they operate under the supervision of a properly qualified training officer. My point is that the whole system does not just "happen" - it's all highly organised.

Separation standards are laid down internationally and in a radar environment (like AMS) the minimum distance between aircraft at the same altitude will be around 3 miles, although this distance may be varied for various reasons - weather, vortex spacing, etc. Radar controllers who direct the aircraft on to the ILS are highly skilled and can easily space aircraft whatever distance apart is required. At Heathrow, where I worked, they can use 2.5 mile spacing on final approach under certain conditions and the controllers can achieve this with great precision simply because they are trained to do it. Very, very rarely do aircraft "veer off course" or carry out unexpected manouevres but if problems arise ATC is there to work with the pilots to restore things to normal.

I am retired and have little knowledge of R-NAV so hopefully someone else will respond. However my understanding is that the system allows aircraft to fly defined tracks with extreme accuracy but does not take into account other aircraft. It is for this reason that the positioning, or sequencing, of many aircraft to one or more runways maybe carried out more efficiently by the use of ground radar.

Hope that helps a bit..

Byrna
10th Feb 2007, 01:58
Thanks Heathrow Director for your very englightening information. It really helps to ask directly in a professional forum and I find it a privilege to have membership in such a forum as this.

I do understand that it does not just happen randomly but I guess I was unsure how ATC managed it all. But that's the system as you say and the organization in an airport like Schipol would be one I'd love to see one day, if current security precautions (post -911) would allow a tour of the ATC and airport radar facilities (though I am doubtful if it would).

Thanks again.

John