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BornToFlyFaster
4th Feb 2007, 15:36
:ugh:

Whilst crewing in for RF on Friday, I noticed that one of the RAF's premier AT assets, of which we all have come to loath is still on the pan at Nellis.

After some digging about it seems that it is still the same one that went U/S on Wednesday with a small fuel indication problem. I then found out that this problem was cured but suddenly they had a fuel leak and have been here ever since........surprise surprise. Whilst this is all very inconvenient for the crew who I am sure are finding it tough sitting watching sports down the strip, they seem to have abandoned their passengers (Yet again) who are trying to get home after week here.
I hear now their ALM....Arrgh NCA again.........has gone sick with ear problems. (allegedly)

It never ceases to amaze me that these problems always seem to occur when Flag is on, or the "Global" or whatever you guys call those trips you are always on. Am I just being cynical, but come on guys do us a favour and just do your job on time and with no "minor unservicabilities" that you seem to carry from base ok then suddenly can't carry on arrival.

OK OK, I know these jets are old but come on......seriously:=

BTFF

SAR Bloke
4th Feb 2007, 15:44
Since when was a fuel leak a minor unserviceability?

And I bet you've never had a cold?

Maybe these things always happen when 'flag' is on because they go there more often during the exercises. (just a guess as I'm not an AT man). Are you trying to tell me they don't go U/S anywhere else?

Do you honestly think they are pulling a fast one to get a jolly? I don't think so.

Why don't you keep your ill informed thoughts to yourself rather than slagging off professionals trying to do their job in a public forum.

T***er

Arty Fufkin
4th Feb 2007, 15:52
Someone is always on Globals and Red Flags? Where can I sign up? Sounds like a job more suited to the F3 than the Trimotor.

BornToFlyFaster
4th Feb 2007, 15:58
I was not slagging anyone off, I was merely making an observation to the situation.
I am not an AT man either, and whilst I agree a fuel leak is almost always serious, I was only pointing out the fact that It seems to be that sometimes the service we as a whole provide falls short of whats required.

I am only New to this forum, and perhaps I posted incorrectly, I do not intend to offend anyone, maybe you can add to this link too in a mature way, but there is no need for personal attacks like the "T****r in you thread.

Doh...
I Shouldn't of bothered.

BTFF

FFP
4th Feb 2007, 16:01
Born,

"surprise surprise. Whilst this is all very inconvenient for the crew who I am sure are finding it tough sitting watching sports down the strip, they seem to have abandoned their passengers (Yet again) who are trying to get home after week here."

and

"It never ceases to amaze me that these problems always seem to occur when Flag is on, or the "Global" or whatever you guys call those trips you are always on"

along with

"but come on guys do us a favour and just do your job on time and with no "minor unservicabilities"

Sounds very much like your slagging the crew off.

Your information and source is wrong, on both the severity of the fuel issue and sickness of the crew member. Suggest you confirm your facts before you make an ar$e of yourself.

Max Contingency
4th Feb 2007, 16:06
I have to agree with you Born to Fly faster.

You shouldn't have bothered. :hmm:

Arty Fufkin
4th Feb 2007, 16:12
BTFF, Even more backpedaling required I feel. Go on, say you're sorry. ;)

Grabbers
4th Feb 2007, 16:33
I have never heard of a Tri * going u/s whilst recovering troops from Ops. However, that may be because the DAS circuit breaker has been pulled so a charter crew have to take their Ops routes instead, leaving 216 to remain a peace loving Sqn:E

stillin1
4th Feb 2007, 17:06
BornToFlyFaster,
When you can't see the horizon no more - stop diggin mate!
t;was a pretty crass 2nd post sport:rolleyes: People will think you were beaten up by a Tri# copilot when you was a baby, and that would be too much to live wiv:E

"incommmming"

D-IFF_ident
4th Feb 2007, 17:15
BornToBeArrogant.

Please post your name, rank, number and address and I'll have OC 216 answer your questions and comments personally for you.

If you don't really want a comprehensive reply to your posts then we'll all have to assume that you are just being cynical and you are slagging off the crew.

Up to you mate...

Cockney Geezer
4th Feb 2007, 17:48
BTFF, you posting this thread is the biggest mistake since Gary Glitter dropped his computer off at PC World!

How about when you crew in tomorrow, you find out the facts, and post back agreeing that you've made an enormous t!t of yourself.

MAD Boom
4th Feb 2007, 18:19
"Arrgh NCA again..."
Have a problem do we?
Please do tell us of your previous experiences with us.
And then p*** off.
:=

Xavier Onassis
4th Feb 2007, 18:49
I am the 216 Sqn Duty Exec.

For those of you that are interested in the facts, the aircraft did dispatch with a very minor fuel gauge problem.

HOWEVER, once at Nellis, a pipe in the transfer gallery ruptured whilst the aircraft was being refuelled. Approx 100 US gallons of fuel leaked into the hydraulic service centre. The leak onto the pan was severe enough that the US fire service quarantined the aircraft for 48hrs, leaving the ground engineers to clear the fuel within the aircraft whilst wearing breathing apparatus and IPE.

No TriStar crew member has reported sick.

Continuing with the fault was obviously a non-starter (Leak cannot be effectively isolated. The hydraulic service centre contains many sources of ignition - not a good place to have fuel sloshing about). Spares have been sourced and sent.

Born to Fly Faster. - I repeat D-IFF's offer of a written explanation from myself or from OC 216 Sqn. But after a monstrously ill informed and cynical post, I doubt that you will have the balls to step out from the anonimity that this forum affords you. If you are willing to back up your initial post, then please PM me. It saddens me to see comments such as yours from a colleague within the Service.

Wrathmonk
4th Feb 2007, 19:04
Xavier

Nicely put! :D

Can't remember for the life of me the name of the IT system from which any Sqn Ops Clerk can access the flying programme for any sqn at any unit on any given day .... I'm sure they don't fly that many sorties on a Flag day! If nothing else you could narrow down the sqn (assuming they've deployed as part of a wing)...

pba_target
4th Feb 2007, 19:05
XO...

here here, good to see someone in the know nipping this kind of crap in the bud for once. Well done!

Having done my time with the funbus fellows I know that all sorts of snags can leave you stranded down-route, and the reason it "always seems to happen" downroute as opposed back at home is the obvious lack of spares (parts/ac) in random places. (Admittedly it is sometimes due to hilarity.... a week spent in canada due to having a lovely empty nosecone packing crate sent to us... really useful!)

Wish people would stop digging at the multis chaps and realise that their kit is even more antiquated than that which the rest of the aging air force has to cope with!

animo et fide
4th Feb 2007, 19:10
BFF

Feel free to come to Odiham and have a go at all the NCA with sick chits. I think you'll find most of them still flying through their ailments and only the severely disfigured! on the ground.
Hope your next poo is a hedgehog

:ugh:

edwardspannerhands
4th Feb 2007, 19:57
Pity my first post is to 'bubble' someone, but I believe the glorious ' bumdusters' are the only FJs at RF.:suspect: I have had more than my fair share of AT nightmares thanks to '2 (days late!) Group, but BTFF, u r way outta line.:=

PICKS135
4th Feb 2007, 20:23
According to local rag 'tremblers' are also out there

Xavier Onassis
4th Feb 2007, 20:29
Gents,

Last year I was lucky enough to act as the Det Exec at RF06, and was hugely impressed by the sheer hard work that the FJ crews put in, working very long hours under incredible pressure. I think a witch-hunt to identify either a sqn or individual helps no-one.

I have sat and waited for the AT home many times in my previous life as a rotorhead (there goes the last vestige of my anonimity!). And, as a member of 216 Sqn, how many times do you think that I have been delayed whilst down route! I would not be so crass as to compare my frustration to that of a marine counting down his precious days of R&R from Helmand, and I would suggest that those currently in harms way might have difficulty summoning up too much sympathy for those extended for an extra few days in Vegas.

Please let's put this thread to bed, as another ill informed Pprune storm in a tea-cup, and get back to the traditional pursuits of arguing that "the branch of the armed forces I serve in is better than the branch of the armed forces that you serve in!"

BornToFlyFaster - I look forward to hearing from you.

FFP
4th Feb 2007, 20:30
May be some jets that hover too out there....

But then again ....

As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent ;)

The Swinging Monkey
4th Feb 2007, 20:45
BTFF,

"Arrgh NCA again..."

It is sad that idiots like you make such unneccesary and irresponsible comments about NCA, you are obviously a fool Sir.

Let me just give you one incy-wincy little bit of advice, and education about NCA. When that fast pointy little thing that you fly goes tits-up, and all the lights are flashing and all the horns are going off, and you are thinking about that good old Martin baker let down. Just remember, when you are bobbing around in the oggin, trying to get in your dinghy, and pukin up everywhere, guess who will be putting his neck on the line to save your scrawny little arse? - Yep, it will almost certainly be NCA!
Just think about that, jerk

Kind regards to all, especially my dear old friends from the SAR world.

TSM

chumbleywarner
4th Feb 2007, 21:21
Here we have the Captain, Eng and ALM from the tristar.

Now then...........muppet

Yes I did dispatch with a minor fuel problem, well within the DDM. However when my engineers had finished the re-fuel a pipe blew dumping about 3 tonnes of fuel on the pan and inside the aircraft, a major major problem. We have had to wait for spares from the uk, and also my engineering team have had to mop up the excess fuel within the aircraft. As for my passengers they got pushed onto the C-17 whose loadie went sick and thus got further delayed. My apologies to those involved.

As we are flying in old aircraft they do tend to break a little more than usual, this has nothing to do with the crew and thus should not be to blame. Don't shoot the messenger and all that.

As for BorntoFlyfasts' comments, as you are only 24 you've obviously only just qualified out of nappies and should be careful what you post. You are ill informed, and please take up my Sqn executive's offer if you are brave enough.

From the knockers on my crew, please don't knock us as we are highly sensitive and may cry.:ok:

chumbleywarner
4th Feb 2007, 21:27
Thanks Ratty

It was an interesting post, and has killed a bit of time while sitting in Vegas. Must go the knockers want to play poker.:D

The Swinging Monkey
4th Feb 2007, 21:37
chumbleywarner,

Well said old boy, but I too don't think that this BTFF (born too f***ing foolish) deserved your explanation.

I hope that you are enjoying a few days down the strip, instead of the usual sand-pit places you end up in, you deserve a change of view!

Well done guys, hope the jet gets fixed (fairly) soon, otherwise you'll run out of rates down on the strip!!

Kind regards
TSM

Two's in
4th Feb 2007, 22:24
Chumbley,

Found myself stuck at Nellis for a non-aviation reason the other week, rented a car and popped over to Death Valley - cracking way to kill 6 hours, make a serious contribution to global warming, and there's only two turns in 180 miles, so even a Tristar crew could find it. While you're there (in the Valley), you might even think of some suitable ideas for what to do with a mouthy sprog.

TI

Doctor Cruces
4th Feb 2007, 22:52
Here here, slagging does no good.
On the other hand, whilst working in LYE Ops, I do recall a crew carrying a defect all round the Pacific. All of a sudden, and purely co-incidental with arriving in the city where the Commonwealth Games were being held in NZ (can't remember which, age induced!) it became ,sadly, impossible to carry on. Arrived there just as the games started and spares arrived just as they finished.
Coincidence of course.
:) :) :)
Doc C

fergineer
5th Feb 2007, 01:55
Chumbly, Obviously sent the co-pilot to get the drinks from the bar......Have a good stay and dont let t...ers get too you. Had a similar problem on one of the Cale jets so know what its like except we had 393 holiday pax moaning at us. Doc C now that would never happen surely!!!!! And NZ is such a nasty palce to go tech in thats why I now live here. All the best.

D-IFF_ident
5th Feb 2007, 06:07
Chumbly,

I think we might have won Top Dog together...

Good luck on getting home - sounds like it's gonna be a right b***s ache for you. Be interesting to see if this thread gets referenced at a later date.

Hope Nige found you somewhere nice to stay at least. ;)

A and C
5th Feb 2007, 07:56
Looking around Brize Norton I could be mistaken that it was part of Duxford's old airliner collection, Having worked some of the transport assets when I was an engineer for BA I can tell you that the aircraft were getting on a bit 20 years ago.

I have the upmost respect for the people who maintain and fly these very old aircraft and keep them flying but dispite the efforts of these people the serviceabilty rate would bankrupt an airline within weeks.

The bottom line is that these aircraft should be replaced now but I suspect that on the goverment list of what to spend my taxes on the transport fleet is well south of a number of trendy social programs.

BEagle
5th Feb 2007, 08:18
Such an ailrine wouldn't go bankrupt at all, A and C.






It would have had its Air Operators Certificate pulled long before it got to that stage.

Good luck to all those operating and maintaining those venerable old museum pieces - hope you get your A330s this decade....:hmm:

"This programme will NOT slip" - FSTA civil serpent circa 2001...:mad:

mutleyfour
5th Feb 2007, 08:30
Just a shame that Born to Fly faster wasn't actually born to think faster! :}

ProfessionalStudent
5th Feb 2007, 08:53
If they find out his true identity, he may wish he was Born To RUN Faster.:}

Had Enough 77
5th Feb 2007, 12:19
Me thinks BTFF has become Born to run away and hide under a large rock. What was he thinking, mind you he probably wasn't really thinking.:ugh:

FJJP
5th Feb 2007, 15:48
I note that he does not have the b*lls or courage to come back and apologise. I have eaten humble pie in the past and found that by doing so gets you recognised as not such a bad bloke after all...

[hint hint]

FE Hoppy
5th Feb 2007, 16:11
Funny, I went t:ts in Vegas about 11 years ago with a fuel leak! Probably the same jet. We got a similar reaction from the pointy people then.

Guess some things never change.:ugh:

KENNYR
5th Feb 2007, 16:19
To the crew of the Herkybird that went tits in Greenland back in the 80's.......Thankyou....The steaks and beer compliments of the skipper were very much appreciated.

To the crew of the Herkybird that went tits in the states in 80something, thanks very much....the porterhouse steaks and beers on your account (+the trip to the Casino).......very much appreciated indeed.

My point is.............if the aircraft goes tits up, no matter where or how or what.....make the most of it and dont bellyache. BTFF.......have you no sense of humour or love of life during stopovers.......planned or not planned?
Get a life my young friend.

Keep up the good work boys and girls of the AT Fleet.....keep bringing our guys/gals back from dangerous places in one piece.

Ken Scott
5th Feb 2007, 16:57
I've done route support on several trails where the jets have gone u/s & delayed us for considerable periods - I don't recall much complaining from the AT & AAR chaps, & certainly no posts on here!

I was also on the Typhoon trail to Singapore a few years ago, where we got as far as Akrotiri & they had to send back to the UK for another jet. To make up for the delay we pushed on to Singapore on min ground time everywhere. Later saw an article on the trip in that fine publication, Air Force Monthly, which claimed that the trail only arrived late because one of the C130Js went u/s - ungrateful b*****ds!

splitbrain
5th Feb 2007, 17:39
Funny, I went t:ts in Vegas about 11 years ago with a fuel leak! Probably the same jet. We got a similar reaction from the pointy people then.


Ahhh, thats because you were West of the imaginary 'Credibility Line', a new line of longitude on the aviation map beyond which all unserviceabilities are treated with a certain degree of suspicion :}

Comp Charlie
5th Feb 2007, 19:25
BTFF is obviously an amateur at all this...not once in his post was there a mention of us Movers being responsible for the U/S Tristar.

Quite blatantly a new poster on here otherwise he would know the golden rule of blaming us first for everything.

What a wally though isn't he?

CC

AT Mov
5th Feb 2007, 19:41
There you go blowing it, I was resisting pointing that obvious error out!

Denzil
5th Feb 2007, 20:20
All the spares you need are just down the road, plenty of L1011's at Victorville, just take your spanners & help yourself!!!!!!

As mentioned it's the joy of operating an aircraft that has been retired from airline service. Going back a few years you could get L1011 parts easily (recall a NLG retract actuator on loan from Saudia just after GW1 & a battery charger that they forgot to give back to Air Canada!!!!).

brit bus driver
5th Feb 2007, 20:49
Get the spares from down the road...wash your mouth out. We have a perfectly good supply chain to facilitate your every need. That is why I spent a week in Vegas myself (albeit many moons ago) awaiting an ACS computer when Mr DHL could probably have got it there next day. Let the record show that we did not enjoy ourselves...not even once.
:hmm:

As for BTFF's comments...they do not surprise me in the slightest. I just hope I never end up with his cup of tea instead of mine...:yuk:

14greens
5th Feb 2007, 20:58
would put money on BTFF being happy enough with the trimotor when he is halfway between the East coast and Lajes and he needs his fuel, or will he still loathe it then as he put it?
And bet he is not slagging off the NCA on the same trail when after the trail sector the Crew of the tanker, especially the ALM goes out of his/her way to make sure that they are fed and looked after as much as possible

and of course the crew down the strip in vegas are so proud of themsleves being able to generate that snag to get em a few days off

real sod, I was going to go on that trip as well damn!!!

wind yr neck in BTFF you have made an ar*! of yrself

Oiy
5th Feb 2007, 21:31
At last, after much faffing I can now post again.:\
(New user name same old me)

It seems that whatever we do nowadays someone always finds the time to incorrectly inform others about what they think we have done.......ahem...:=

Now us knockers on the crew have had our cry (See Chumbly) we can get on with the task in hand.

What time is "Managers Hour".:ok:

ps. I love VC10's They are Great Too.
pps. 14 Greens....see you next week.

:D

wg13_dummy
5th Feb 2007, 21:43
Quite funny watching crabs stitch each other up on this thread. No, quite sad actually.


Just a quickie to Xavier Onassis;

Sqn Duty Exec

Det Exec


Are they Neu Management speak for Sqn Duty Officer and Det Comd? All sounds very American Corporate speil to me.



BTFF, you are clearly not the brightest bulb on the CWP are you?

I'll bet it would be harder to find a Hippo in a tu-tu trying to enter an Elephants only club than discover your real identity.

brit bus driver
5th Feb 2007, 21:50
Well, been DEX (Duty Exec) for as long as I can remember on 216...and that's a mighty long time! As in there is the boss and his "executive": the 4 (5) flt cdrs.

Glad to see the Embassy Suites (I assume) providing superb vfm!:}

wg13_dummy
5th Feb 2007, 21:54
:D

Nice one ratty.



So why not call them Flt Comds? Or is it a way of 'bigging' the position up?


No doubt in the RAF, a Flt Comd...sorry 'Exec' would be a Gp Capt or some such.

1000CC'soffun
5th Feb 2007, 22:29
Ratty, I think I have seen him, although he may well have had a red skirt on.

Nice one BTFF Just perusing the site after months away, and what do I find, a laughable post from a laughable character.

Born to Fly Faster.....................Don't Think so, :bored:
Born To Fly Fastjets.....I doubt that, I always assumed they were intelligent, genuine, kind and carefree fellows......(Incoming again)

I think you may just be one of the passengers who flew in on that Tristar or another one recently, have absolutely no idea of how large, old AT aircraft are programmed or operated, have a more than generous chip on ones shoulder about aircrew in general and to cap it all, judging by your recent lack of input to your thread.....No B******s (Although you do talk a lot of it)

Stay away from our trainset until you have grown up enough to either apologise or reply with an educated answer :oh:



................Just my penneth (read opinion) that is.

brit bus driver
5th Feb 2007, 22:38
Isn't the DOB Cdr on RF a seasoned ME operator at the moment? A parade, witch hunt and public flogging I say!:}

clicker
6th Feb 2007, 01:38
Anorak Mode = On

First Flights

Timmys
ZD948 16-Oct-1978
ZD949 10-Jan-1979
ZD950 08-Apr-1979
ZD951 01-May-1979
ZD952 10-Jul-1979
ZD953 22-Apr-1980
ZE704 10-Jun-1980
ZE705 16-Jun-1980
ZE706 16-Jan-1980

FunBuses
XR807 25-Mar-1966
XV101 11-Jan-1967
XV102 05-May-1967
XV104 14-Jul-1967
XV105 03-Oct-1967
XV106 17-Nov-1967
XV107 22-Mar-1968
XV108 07-Jun-1968
XV109 18-Jul-1968
ZA147 12-Oct-1966
ZA148 21-Mar-1967
ZA149 31-Mar-1969
ZA150 16-Feb-1970
ZD242 20-Nov-1968

Anorak Mode = Off

BTFF, you may have noticed that all of these aircraft started life before you did. So have you never had a problem that kept you from school for a few days? (I doubt if that would apply to your working days as it appears the nappies are still being worn)

Also theres a saying that is rarely heard nowadays

"Respect your elders", these jets have seen more life than you think.

clicker

Slotback
6th Feb 2007, 09:00
As someone who was was involved in the trail across the pond from the northern Tornado base last month I would just like to show my appreciation for the Tristar, VC-10 and Herc crews that supported us.

Nothing but professionalism shown throughout, evident from the long hours the ARCC put in to rewrite the ever changing plan right through to the ALM having hot food ready at the other end.

It is such a shame that some spotty youth with no concept of the RAF can stir up such a fuss over nothing. God forbid a fast jet should go u/s. We all have jobs to do and the vast majority of us get on with the task at hand, overcoming many hurdles, to succeed.

BTFF probably, almost certainly given the FJ sqns out at Nellis, comes from arguably the least stretched force in the air force, I know I'm on that force too. No wonder he has time to commit to ideal and damaging speculation. Shouldn't you be planning a mission or something anyway BTFF.

BTFF please shut up and stop making us all look like dicks in front of people who put their lives on the line alot more often than you do!!

MrBernoulli
6th Feb 2007, 12:24
Quote from BTFF

"Doh...
I Shouldn't of bothered."

Shouldn't OF bothered? Shows something of your education level I think. Go back and check your written English qualifications, you might find they're faked.

Sideshow Bob
6th Feb 2007, 15:20
Quote "I have never heard of a Tri * going u/s whilst recovering troops from Ops. However, that may be because the DAS circuit breaker has been pulled so a charter crew have to take their Ops routes instead, leaving 216 to remain a peace loving Sqn"

Grabbers
You seem to have forgotten to mention that the Tri* had already left with the charter passengers, due to the charter jet being stuck, as the charter company completely messed up their own route and did not have a rested crew to fly the jet home. By the way the charter did not fly the ops route just it's normal home route with the Tri* passengers.

FFP
6th Feb 2007, 15:31
Wonder how one of current Sqns in RF got out there ?!?!??!?!
Any complaints regarding the flight out ?!?!?!
(Said very tongue in cheek waiting to see if someone's going to spill the beans on this one.......:ok: ;) )

1000CC'soffun
6th Feb 2007, 16:35
Aha

Seems like the next Trail Tri* and crew(s) are shortly to land in Nevada.:)

BTFF are you planning to fly home with/in the said aircraft, or are you planning to fly back at personal cost with Richard Branson's lot?:cool:

Interesting to see what happens next methinks!:p

Doctor Cruces
6th Feb 2007, 17:03
Hay Beags,

Trouble is, by the time w get the A330s they will be 30 yrs old too at this rate!!

Doc C
:)

Roadster280
6th Feb 2007, 19:55
Drove by McCarran this morning on my travels, and saw what certainly looked like a VC10 there.

brit bus driver
6th Feb 2007, 20:51
Slotback....wise words fella.

Finrider
6th Feb 2007, 22:37
As someone, I believe, that was on the other FJ Sqn at that period of RF, I would like to echo Slotback's remarks. I met nothing but helpful professionalism from the AT crews. The Tri* is still a capable aircraft, one took six of us from Lajes to Bangor...I was certainly grateful for my fuel mid Atlantic!

petop
12th Feb 2007, 12:23
Ref earlier poster on free steaks etc on a stopover....you were lucky...i was on a flight in a Herc to Nairobi, stop-over in Akrotiri, no worries but then the pilot/co-pilot (cant remember which, in 93) decides to break a leg and we are stuck for another 24hrs.
Whats the problem you say...well in the next 24hrs 2 Companys of Paras are due for a stopover from jungle training in Brunei....2 months under the jungle, no alcohol and accomadated in the same transit block as us. Needless to say we didnt get sleep that night!! Took turns holding the door shut!:ugh:

petop
12th Feb 2007, 12:58
I think it may of been due to the fact that 2 "craphats" living above were beaten up earlier in the evening for telling them all to shut up!

mayorofgander
12th Feb 2007, 13:51
You should have opened the door to let them out then!!!!:ok:

MOG

MarkD
13th Feb 2007, 14:27
http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?story_id=8691739&fsrc=RSS

the more immediate threat to our lives is not the Taliban, but the appalling state of the RAF’s fleet of 30-year-old Tristar transport planes.

Farfrompuken
13th Feb 2007, 20:08
When we turn up the following day at 10am we are told the flight is full because it has to take on the previous day’s stranded passengers, and journalists are “not a priority”. A few calls to the Ministry of Defence soon set the record straight.
Not on my watch.
Jumped up tw@t:mad:

ex_rigger
14th Feb 2007, 18:36
Hey come on Smart chap don`t knock the poor old 10. := Like some of the rest of us they are getting grumpy in their old age. :* Spent many years flogging around in them and rarely did they let us down.
We need some new kit and fast!!