Greatest distance in an R22?

[g-mady]

I now the likes of Jennifer Murray have flown R44s around the world, but has anyone ever attempted to fly an R22 long distance, round the world, or UK to Australia?

Obviously there would be more stops from smaller range but has it ever been done?

MADY

[cyclic flare]

I did set off on an Uk - Australia trip in an R22. We spent months planning the trip getting clearences etc. We left Manchester on the 21 May 02 but got back ache after two hours and abandoned the trip

[scooter boy]

The furthest I ever took mine was London! I echo the numb backside :sad: sentiment completely. On the way back I could have walked faster due to a slight headwind component.

The factory delivery pilots take 'em from Torrance to all corners of the USA and I'll bet they are up there with some of the longest distances flown.

The R22 - a truly great training aircraft but not the fastest!

SB

[helicopter-redeye]

I remember some years ago Q Smith saying he was planning a trip across the Atlantic in one (which a very big fuel tank sitting next to him).

Don't know if he ever did it.

h-r;)

[InducedDrag]

2300 statute miles (2000 nautical) is my longest trip in a 22. It was a ferry from coast to coast. I did it in three days and just over 22 hrs hobbs. Including ground run time on the hobbs, that would average 90kts.

Not a bad way to go....You could do it in two days...but that would be no fun. You have to enjoy it some too!... XM radio piped into my headsets did not hurt either:)

[Head Turner]

To my way of thinking this question is diverse and follows the line that theres no gain without pain. I would't attempt any long distance flight in an R22 nor would I stand at a wall and see if I could head butt it down. This is no kind of achievement, just plain stupid. And R22's are not great training machines, bloody awful actually IMHO.

[TIMTS]

Personal best is from Shenandoah Valley, Virginia to Curacao, Netherlands Antilles, via Bahamas, the caribbean and Venezuela. Nice scenic flight, could have done without having to land in Venezuela...that was an experience in itself.

[Brilliant Stuff]

I did Bristol - Moenchenglattbach and back followed by Bristol - Frankfurt (Egelsbach) and back. The last one I did on my own. Prefer two up except you can not take any luggage. It took me 6 hours one way. Loved it.

I have no problem flying long distance in the R22. But I would love to take something like an EC135 or A109 or Bell430 round the world if I can find the money.

[InducedDrag]

....I would't attempt any long distance flight in an R22 nor would I stand at a wall and see if I could head butt it down. This is no kind of achievement, just plain stupid.......


How do you think these ships get to where they are based in the US? We fly them! Yes from the factory, to all points in the US.



Sounds more like you dont like 22's in general......


I have made many long trips in 22's and they are not bad at all. As a matter of fact, I just got done with another one last week. (Only 650 miles though) Not at all a problem for a day of flying....


... I think complaints about the comfort over a long period of time are true but you get the same thing when you sit in a car for 6 hours. There is nothing that is comfortable to sit in for hours and hours. I dont find the 22 any less comfortable then any other ship.....(Allthough I am only 5'9" so that helps)

[Whirlybird]

An American instructor friend of mine used to do delivery flights from Torrance; the last time I heard, she'd flown coast to coast seven times; it's probably more by now.

The longest I've done is Wolverhampton to Paris and back again. No problem, and no backache - but being only 5ft 3ins I have enough room. :ok:

Brilliant Stuff, if you ever want a companion on a long trip in an R22, let me know.

[Heli Teli]

I am doing a ferry flight taking a Mariner from Liverpool to Mallorca with an R44 in support due to the weight limitations with 2 up. Should be late this month or early next. It will be my longest flight.

Should be a good laugh, and I plan to enjoy it. :O

[Brilliant Stuff]

What a lovely flight that will be. I am a bit jealous.

[scooter boy]

"And R22's are not great training machines, bloody awful actually IMHO.":eek:

Head Turner, why the negativity? I would have loved to be able to train in an Agusta 109 power elite - its just that I needed a house and clothes and to eat and stuff like that...:rolleyes:

SB

[rattle]

"a Mariner from Liverpool to Mallorca with an R44"

HT Any seats going? Am rated in a 44 and 22....

[ShyTorque]

"I now the likes of Jennifer Murray have flown R44s around the world, but has anyone ever attempted to fly an R22 long distance, round the world, or UK to Australia?"

I've never been that desperate to fly to Australia. My personal record is 12 minutes out, 12 minutes back.

[Bravo73]

Scooter Boy,

As opinions go, I'm afraid that Head Turner is pretty much spot on. The R22 IS a 'bloody awful' training machine. It's a great little 2 seater helicopter, but it's not a good trainer. (And, for what it's worth, an A109E wouldn't be a very good ab-initio trainer either, but for lots of different reasons).

The only really 'good' training helicopter is the S300. Why? Because it's the only helicopter that was designed specifically as a trainer.

But, surprise, surprise, this has already been debated long and hard on here. Here's the original thread that started back in 2001:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=75186 (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=75186)


:ok:

[Hughesy]

A circuit or two was long enough distance for me in a R22 :E
Flying across the States in any machine would be interesting.

Hughesy:ok:

[MD900 Explorer]

A mate of mine Decimal, who does not post here often, has done a trip from Carp, Ontario to the Florida Quays and back in an R22 Beta. Took him and another pilot 6 weeks. :D

Said they had temps from -30 to +35 on the whole trip. Bet their backs hurt like hell :E

MD :D

[nickg_44]

I would much rather train in Robinson than S300. S300 = rubbish.

Terrible helicopters.

[Heli-kiwi]

I wanna know what it is with smaller helicopter manufacturers and :mad: seats! For US170k-200K+ you would expect your luxury little machine to at least not give you a numb ass after 1.5 hrs - Why not use a modified kevlar racecar type seat for example. I did 4.9 hours of cross country in my R22 one day.........never again.

[ForceTrim]

NickG,

What do you think is terrible about the S300 :confused: and how much experience have you got in them Vs the R22? I could list many reasons why I think the 300 is a better trainer, but I bet most pilots on here already know them so I wont bore everyone...

FT.

[CYHeli]

I am sure that there was a female pilot in Oz that flew around Australia in an R22, but I can't recall the details. She'd had an accident of some sort and moved over from planes to helos before the journey.

Re the bad back, try using a small cushion between your back and the seat (Lumber support), that's why they get fitted to modern cars now. Don't slouch forward, it puts strain on your back. Sit upright and have a small curve in the bottom of your spine, that's the way it's designed.

On the R22 vs H/s300, I trained in both and both have good and bad. The variety gave a good insight and having done endorsements on H500, Jetranger and R44, the experience on both types of rotor head early on was a good advantage. One pilot tried to tell me that the Bell 47 was the best training helicopter EVER. I've never flown one, so I can't say.

[nigelh]

I agree the S300 or Hughes 300 is a far superior machine to the robinson . For one it is actually a "proper" helicopter and can be thrown around safely which can be a good thing if your student does something odd....i ferried a 300 from Denver to Houston Texas with a student on board....6000 ft over some mountains i have my head buried in a map trying to work out where my fuel cache was....after a few minutes i had sick feeling ...looked up and all i could see was spinning sky...the student had slowed down to zero or backwards, the aircraft was spinning and falling at x000 ft/min. Taught me a lesson for the future but not sure i would have had a future in an R22!!!! I wish schools would get rid of them and give our insurance rates a chance to recover !!

[Bol-kowboy]

CYheli,

I think you will find the lady in question is Roger Corbin's (rotorlift -Tasmania) wife Allana.

http://rotorlift.com.au/info/comp_staff.htm

[Whirlybird]

S300 = rubbish. Terrible helicopters.

The words "terrible" and "helicopter" should never ever be put in such close proximity. There are so-so helicopters and good helicopters and fantastic helicopters...but no rotary machine can be terrible.

At least, that's how I feel, and I always thought it was the opinion of every rotorhead in the known universe.

[turnarounds]

1994 First Solo Helicopter Circumnavigation of Australia.

R22, 111 hours over 24 days covering 17,000kms.

VH-LPU.

Quote from page 154 of Bills book (One Mans Dream)

"Would I do it again? NO!"

:D

[Rushes]

Quite, I'd like to second Whirlybirds opinion. We all have a different take on life and what it has to offer, and we all have differing opinions..... which is what can make this such an interesting site at times...

Different aircraft for different folks, some are undoubtably more suited to certain tasks than others......, but i guess they all have their place, and both the R22 and H300 are good machines..... in the right hands.

[SEL]

I definately agree that the 300 is the better trainer. It isn't perfect but it's flying characteristics are spot on. (This is from experience as an instructor on both). Also, isn't it true that Robinson has said that the R22 shouldn't be used for training?
The R22 is a good 2 seater, quick and reliable but it has its drawbacks too. It's flying characteristics are not that hot also its not so good if you're over 6' tall with a healthy weight, as a weight & balance will show (I'm not going to able to break any distance records!).
Its so popular as a trainer for financial reasons.
Used for what it was originally designed for, with a competent and well trained pilot and the R22 statistics would be much healthier.
As for nickg_44, perhaps he should try getting time in a type before criticising.

[nickg_44]

All im saying is that I have been surrounded by helicopters my entire life, and have vast amounts of experience in hughes 500, R22, R44, 206B3, and enstrom 280c (another "so-so" helicopter). Ok, so i dont have much experience of the S300, i think i have been in one once?

I just much prefer the concept of the R22, it seems to be a more finished product than the S300, better thought out, it has lower running costs, and they are capable of flying some fairly decent distances. I have about 300hrs P2 in R22, so for a 19yr old i would say im fairly well informed.

Competition flying wise, the R22 is much more versatile and manouverable than the clunky 300.

I agree that no helicopter is rubbish :), but could i have a definition of a "proper helicopter" please?

nick x

[Whirlybird]

Nick,

I in no way mean to be ageist, but how have you managed to acquire "vast amounts of experience" on so many types by the age of 19? I didn't have vast experience of anything at that age. I'm not saying you haven't; I'm just wondering how you did it...at what age did you start etc.

I'm just jealous, that's all. :)

And, for the record, I like R22s too. :ok:

[RVDT]

P2 in a Robinson?? Does that translate to "passenger".

[nickg_44]

Alrite whirleybird?

Members of my family are heavily into flying, so most of that was done with me while i was growing up, i think my first trip in an R22 was about 3yrs old. I learnt a lot, and hovered an R22 on my 14th birthday. I have done long range trips in R22, R44 and 206.

I am about half way through a PPL, but currently cant afford it because im at university! SHUCKS!

So my actual recorded P1 time is fairly minimal if you dont count the times where i held the stick in the cruise :).

I also suppose one of my reasons for not liking the 300c is the fact that the pilot peer group I have been surrounded by dont like them either. But I dont mean to piss people off on here, merely like to spark a bit of debate. The other thing about this, is that its the same snobbery situation with Turbine pilots and robinsons. Every single Military pilot i have ever met think that Robinsons arent proper. And most R22 pilots swear by their machines, but dont like the 300C and vice versa.

nick x

[Whirlybird]

And helicopter pilots think plank pilots can't really fly. And glider pilots think anyone with an engine knows zilch about flying. And microlight pilots think they're the best. And those with two engines look down on those with one who look down on those with none, and vice-versa. And taildragger pilots think the same aircraft but with the little wheel at the front isn't a real aeroplane. And balloon pilots...I've no idea what they think, but they probably think they're absolutely great and no-one else is. As do hang-glider pilots, probably...not that I know about that either.

But don't you think this divisiveness actually says loads about people....but b***** all about their flying machines. := :ugh:

[nickg_44]

you seem to have a wide range of snobberies in your head. not that you hold any of them! hehe!

they may be stupid, but we are all entitled to our own opinions. mine however, are not unfounded.

nick

[Bravo73]

Every single Military pilot i have ever met think that Robinsons arent proper. They aren't. And I'm not even a 'military pilot'. :}

And most R22 pilots swear by their machines Ahhh, ignorance is bliss. :E

[helicopter-redeye]

I'm looking fwd to the response to that one
:E

Damn not quick enough ...

[Big Foot]

R22 versus s300
Look at the mustering industry in Aus, 22s far outway 300s in numbers, an R22 can do anything a 300 can and is far more reliable in a hard working environment, and who wants to ferry a 300 at snail pace for any distance.
BF

[spinwing]

Mmmmmm ....

Well what a wonderful thread .... makes me feel so happy to reveal that my longest flight in a R22 was a :10 circuit at Cranfield UK back in 1981 with (my then Boss) a bloke named Dave Dixon the then CFI of Trent Air Services.

I was so impressed (:eek: ) that I have been able to maintain that record now for 26 yrs and hopefully will continue it till I retire!

:E

Cheers

[topendtorque]

"a :10 circuit at Cranfield UK back in 1981"

a circuit of the country or the airport?

[spinwing]

.....

The airport dear boy! .......

i was most happy to stay within the confines of the Bedford Radar control area :\

Cheers

:ooh:

[TIMTS]

I have about 800hrs in the 300, and 300 R22 plus 700ish in the 44...and I DO NOT swear by any Robinson product.
I have to quote an instructor at the flightschool I went to :
"I am at a point in my career where I don't HAVE to fly an R22 anymore, so I won't....ever."
As for the 300....love it. Would love to have one around the hangar here to go do some fulldowns and other fun things with when things are quiet.

[rattle]

A recent thread has discussed how threads are boring if they have already been discussed elsewhere. This was followed by the rights and wrongs of repeating old news.
I think that any thread, wherever it may have started, ends up as a Robinson bashing thread. I am not going to be boring and defend them. We all seem to have soooo much time on our hands we can search for those arguments (sorry, threads) and read all the same stuff again.
But what started off (read the thread title) as an interesting discussion ended up with endless posts along the lines of "2 miles was enough for me".
"I have reached the stage in my career..." Well lucky you, but I presume that means that like many, including myself, you learnt to fly in an R22. I wonder if we could start a thread asking how many of the so knowledgable posters learnt in an R22? And how many would admit it?
Bored now. I learnt to drive in a Mazda 323. I have never driven one since, and have no particular desire to do so. But I was glad at the time as it gave me my licence. If it were all I could afford to drive now, I would do so.

[g-mady]

hence i started the thread "pokeing a hornets nest"

well said

MADY

[22clipper]

I did a thousand hours in my little R22 & it bemuses me why some are so caustic towards 'em. The art of flying anything surely is to get the most out of what's avaialbale from the machine you're in.

As for all the criticisms, none of 'em seem to mention the only thing about the beast that ever actually concerned me, that bloody whirling flex coupling between the 2 fuek tanks. Why ol' man Robinson left it unguarded to rip the tanks open if something serious happens to the drive train I'll never know.

As for Robinson knocking, they must be one of the few companies with a true GA focus. All the other players are chasing the corporate/military big bucks needed to fund their new technologies, I doubt we'll see X2 style developments in a machine for the rest of us? Seems to me all the really clever ideas are in UAVs which none of us get to fly anyway!

[spinwing]

22Clipper ....

There are quite a lot of us out here that are bemused by those who think the little R22 is a helicopter at all! ;)

Cheers :E

[22clipper]

Indeed SpinWing! If we reduce forward speed to zero, do we not hover? If we pull up collective on engine failure do we not die? Does my licence not say PPL(helicopter)??

[spinwing]

....... Well done ..... My point exactly! :E

[HELOFAN]

I plan to fly an R22 as far as I can throw it !:E

So far I have managed to get the skids to creak when I shook it by its tail.
Not worth the start up & shut down cost.

Still , I continue my endeavour of throwing it !

R22 is more versatile competition wise than the S300 ????? What in a straight line you mean ?? !!

If both heli's have 2 PPL on board

The weather has to be cool so the R22 can compete,

The R22 doesnt have full fuel, so it can compete,

At least one of the R22's pilots has to weigh under 150lb & the other less than an african swallow carrying a coconut.

The wind isnt too strong so the R22 can compete.

:}

Yeah I agree the R22 would beat the S300 in a competition....not sure what comp you mean but sure in a straight line , on a great day for a short distance.
Yepper !

[Whirlybird]

Yawn, yawn, bigger yawn. :(

Mods, please can we have a sticky thread called "R22 Bashing" where those who feel the need can post all these boring, repetitive criticisms.

[topendtorque]

I must say that 22 clipper is one who impresses me with his "a challenge a day attitude", while many others sign themselves up for mediocracy instead by signing themselves out of just seeing if there is some variety out there to spice their life up a bit.

The R22 is just such a variety show, fast, economical, it has totally taken over the mustering industry, the training industry nearly everywhere and is a general all round very easy to fly gadget with a bullet proof engine.

Too easy to fly we might say for real training. It's an excellent platform for me or ned air2air to go fishing in, (he is worse than me wish a fish hook)

The h300 on the other hand, well a mate of mine had that goddammm clothes line clutch turnout snap at 25 hours from brand new, nearly killed him. he's not alone!

We used to burn em off regularly with a G5 (itself 15 knots slower than an R22) in any straight line contest and you can gaurantee that an engine will not last the distance and WILL cost a new crankcase every rebuild because the damm thing is so stressed up.

apart from that you can easy go back to your second childhood in an R22, or droll along on to your next oil platform in some computer and never know anything about helicopters.

[13snoopy]

I am 6 feet 4 inches tall (sorry metric system users) and I have never had a problem being in the R22 for long spells.
Furthest I have flow in one day:
About 900 miles.
I do have to fight the tendancy to sort of lean forward.

[cpi2003]

sorry, do people hold the same contempt for the R44 as they do for the R22??

I am halfway through my training on the S269cbi, have no intention of flying the R22 but I am aiming to finish up on the R44....can I assume the R44 is a far superior machine to its 2 seater version?

[rattle]

Oh no. Standby for another round of Robinson bashing! Can't wait for the R66. Something else to slam. Oh, sorry, just checked. It's already started.

The 44 is a great machine. Having learnt in a 22, the transition was relatively straightforward. If you intend to fly a 44 eventually, and have a few hours left before you get the PPL, I would spend a few hours in a 22. The 44 won't feel so unusual then when you first fly it, and it may save you time with the conversion.

Just my thoughts. No doubt others will disagree, but that is what the forum is for.