Airspace Seperation

[HKBusBoy]

Dear All,

I just wanted to ask what the seperation standards are for Chinese Airspace.

Is it different if you are radar identified?

Please Help.

Thank You

[ATCX]

I cannot help but I want to comment that one of their powerful separation standards is called flow control.

[SeeMyToe]

Hi HKBusBoy,

Chinese separation standards are not like anywhere else in the world. It’s almost as if they make them up as they go along. Silly me. That’s exactly what they do every day of the week. Be VERY careful when radar identified in the PRC. That doesn’t mean that you are under radar control. It can mean that they are using radar to “monitor procedural standards”. (No such thing under ICAO rules). If you are under radar control, also be very careful. PRC controllers have no idea about their responsibilities re terrain clearance when vectoring you.

What sort of separation is provided vectoring into Beijing or Shanghai I’m not sure. I would suggest around 10-12 Km. Standards throughout China are normally time based until you approach your destination aerodrome. Out of Hong Kong, the following standards apply. (Only if there are NO Flow restrictions applied by the PRC)

North through BEKOL it can be as little as 30 Km (16nm) depending where you are going. Basically, the rest of the standards applied in the PRC are 10 minutes, reducing to 5 minutes if under radar coverage. That 5 minutes can be 30 nm (57 km), whichever is greater. Through DOTMI Northbound the separation with radar is 40 nm (75 km) .

Just understand that even with radar coverage, the PRC can and do change these standards for (flow control) purposes daily. For instance they may come up with 20 minutes separation through DOTMI irrespective of level. This translates to 3 aircraft per hour, down from the normal 20 to 30, which works its way back to the gate in Hong Kong and Macao.

[HKBusBoy]

Thanks for you kind reply.

I just have one more question. Where can I find this kind of information out? Cx Manuals just don't seem to cover it.

Cheers

[SeeMyToe]

No problem. Sorry for the 3 replies. I kept getting notified that my reply hadn't been sent, when actally, it had. You will not get this sort of information through Cathay. It comes from Letters of Agreement (LOA) signed by the respective Air Traffic authorities. We also have them between Hong Kong and Taipei. In fact any surrounding FIR.

These requirements find there way into the Manual of Air Traffic Control and that's where I got them from.

SeeMyToe