Mil Mi-34

[kirkbymoorside]

Anyone come across or flown a Mil Mi-34? If so, what did you think of it?

Any ideas where or how I could get time on one?

[NickLappos]

Never flew it, but I poured all over it once for Sikorsky, and my eyeballs tell me it is a class act, well made and strong where it needs to be so.

[Shawn Coyle]

I saw it fly in St. Petersburg in 1995 as a police helicotper. Either it had a very poor quality siren or a very loud exhaust, 'cause you could barely hear the siren when it flew over at 500' AGL. Personally, I think it was the exhaust....

[wg13_dummy]

Powerplant: 1x Vedeneev M-14V-26 9-cylinder radial, 240 kW (320 hp)


Radial engine. Bloody hell! No wonder it's loud.

Any in the UK?

[Mupp]

Are y'all talking about the same helicopter? Because the Mi-35 can't be powered by a piston engine, right? I thought it was an iteration of the Mi-24, or have I been dreaming?

My pal google tells me that the Ka-26 was powered by said piston engine, and they don't really look all that similar...

[Freewheel]

A single digit makes a big difference.

[NickLappos]

The engine is a problem, I spoke to Marat Tschenko, who said they even tried two wankles as a concept.

Here it is:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/14/Mi-34.jpg

[Sammie_nl]

There is a small difference between the Mi-34 and Mi-35. The 35 is the export version of the Mi-24 Hind, while the 34 is a rather failed training helicopter. I don't think any have been made lately (past 2 years), and the production plant in Moscow has been closed or at least had to move. They have been offered with various engines, but only certified on the M-14, which is widely in general aviation in Russia. I think Nigeria is one of the few foreign operators.

[Mupp]

Mind you that I've only thought about this for a few minutes, but "oops" is probably the smartest thing I have to say about this. Carry on.

[rudestuff]

I'm surprised these things didn't do better - I've heard they are tough, not to mention fully aerobatic...

[Finnrotor.com]

not to mention fully aerobatic...

Mi-34 aerobatics: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU79golWgAc

Very impressive!

[heli1]

This helo was originally developed for advanced training and specifically for helicopter competition,in the pre glasnost days.Since then it has had limited sales,no doubt due to the powerplant and limited cabin size (2+2).Production is at Arsenyev but I doubt more than a dozen are flying,a few with police,maybe a couple in Nigeria??? and some in private hands.Mil have looked at turbine and Wankel-engined variants but lack the funding to do much.

[james2210]

The engine is a problem, I spoke to Marat Tschenko, who said they even tried two wankles as a concept.

Here it is:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/14/Mi-34.jpg

What chopper is that behind the Mil with the loud rotors?

Coat already on

[TiPwEiGhT]

Looks like a Mil-26, correct me if I am wrong please.

TiP

[Mupp]

Could it be this one?

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1137404/M/

The numbers seem to match.

[allyn]

Intriguing machine...

I found some more pictures of it here:

http://www.deagel.com/search.aspx?cat=Photo&eq=a000026001

Check out the installation of the radial engine...:8 ;)

[Head Turner]

I heard that it has been fitted with a C20B.

[andTompkins]

Never flew it, but I poured all over it once for Sikorsky, and my eyeballs tell me it is a class act, well made and strong where it needs to be so.

Nick ... assuming this was in the pre-Schweizer days at Sikorsky, were you guys looking to get in the light market on your own?

[Graviman]

The engine is a problem, I spoke to Marat Tschenko, who said they even tried two wankles as a concept.
Never been convinced about wankles as an aero engine. The main reason is weight, although i don't have definitive numbers to hand. A two chamber wankel is equivalent to a 4-cyl 4-stroke. The rotary piston always seems to end up more mass than two pistons, although there are other weight savings to be had. Combine the marginal weight advantage and emissions (oil loss from seals uncovering ports) and it starts to look like a novelty only concept. Besides high boost 2 stage turbos are quite normal now.

Don't think helos are subject to the new Tier 4 emissions, but the rest of us are squirming to meet them!

[kirkbymoorside]

I think that they only made a prototype with the Allison engine (unless anyone knows different?)...

So where are these things in operation? Anywhere outside Russia??

[Ian Corrigible]

The Allison-powered Mi-34 was indeed only a prototype. Mil later focused on switching to the newer Turbomeca Arrius 2F for the turbine variant, but this effort also stalled.

Other than Nigeria, a handful of Mi-34s wound-up with police units in Moscow and Kazakhstan, with the remainder of the 20 or so examples built being sold to private operators. Mil had grand plans to sell the type to Brazil, China, Mexico, Vietnam and Africa, and to develop a light twin variant and VTUAV, but - as heli1 states - the whole program stalled when the company which acquired the rights to the design became embroiled in a financial scandal.

I/C

[160thfan]

Has the problem with this machine been cleared up? I see it was at the helicopter competitions a bit ago. I have spent a lot of time searching and don't see anything else about this. It just shows as a product of Mil.
Thanks

[Freewheel]

Daggy puns aside, it appears to be quite a decent bit of gear, though I wonder if the new Rolls 300 might suit it better than the C-20B. Hopefully that will be a fairly straightforward swap.

They might also want to lay the rear seats back or the passengers will complain of 'hanging' in their belts.


Might be just the thing for a new Dennis Kenyon routine!

[Ian Corrigible]

Given that the thing weighs as much as a 206B-3, I doubt that the 'new' RR300 (née: C18) will do much good... :ooh:

Most recent rumor I heard was that Motor Sich is taking another stab at it with the AI-450.

I/C

[Brilliant Stuff]

They had one trucked over for the HCGB Helicopter Championship in June. This had a Vedeneev M-14V-26 nine cylinder radial with 320hp.

It's also called "the Hermit". So it says.

[enstrompilot]

I have flown one - briefly
it is based in Gyor in Hungary
the machine looks fine (from a distance) but up close its finish is less than one would be pleased with
the machinary is strong and heavily engineered, it is powered by the 14fp engine used in the Yak 18T etc, Air start !, dog gear box, very crude, its 4 (maybe 5) seat - but not heavily built russian chaps. it was heavy to fly - more like a mil-2 than a european heli, carpet by B&Q, basic internal furniture, but reasonably roomy. from my flight (2 up) I would not expect great performace (or range) 4-5 up.
Very modern/advance head, Very strange engine installation, the Radial is mounted vertically (like in a YAK) pointing side ways they are 2-3 gearboxes to send drive to the head and the tail !
fuel burn was 50-55 ltr/hr, cruise speed (2 up) 90-95 mph
there may be 3 of them, one may be for sale, likely to be cheap flying, the whole machine is on an experiamental reg and limited to 300 hrs total life ?. is the reg recognised widely? - Engine life (when in a Yak) is 500 hrs but on the experiamental there may be no calender or life limits it is expected the 300 limit will be extended (they think)!
hope this helps, i'll try to find some pics
Ian

[TimmoWhakatane]

"Very strange engine installation, the Radial is mounted vertically (like in a YAK) pointing side ways there are 2-3 gearboxes to send dive to the head and the tail"

That was my thought as well...seems more logical to install it flat with the output shaft going straight up to the MR....presumably there are/were problems with this though? Cylinder lubrication?

From the pic supplied, it almost looks as if the engine is installed left of centre line too? are the gearboxes installed on the other side of the 'bay to balance the ship?

[enstrompilot]

the engine is side mounted off set from the centre line

there is a large ducted fan to provide cooling (like the enstrom) and plenty of ducting. the start proceedure envolves manual rotation of the engine (to purge oil and avoid hudralic lock) then fuel is manualy pumped to the inlet manifold (ki gas pump) while your assistant rotates the engine another 2-3 revolutions, then compressed air @> 50bar (900 psi) is distributed to the cyclinders, when the engine fire there is a delightful cloud of smoke (and flames) from the exhurst, after that all is normal (if anything russian is normal)
Baldes are composite, the head is similar the recent eurocopters (torsion bars/plates) Rota engagemnet relieas upon oil drag in the box followed by a swift robust poull on a leaver to lock a gear, bit like engaging first in you car with out the clutch, this provide a crunching noise but after that a solid drive (rpm dips very notably). But at least there are few parts to fail, nobelts or tensioners etc
there was a range of machine planned, single (and twin) radial engines and one turbine version of which only a few were built (may be only 1)
the machines I have inspected look OK but are rough and basic by any euro/US measure. The flight manula rates the machines at +/- 3g so rated for exstream manuvers. When I flew it I was impressed by it mass and stability, modest power but business like feel, I didn't feel the need to attempt loops or inverted flight !

I'm in hungary this weekend and will try to capture from useful images
Ian

[160thfan]

It is very fortunate for us to finally get someone who has flown one.
We had a couple more questions-

What about vibration? Did it make a lot going through translational? What about cruise? If it did have a turbine would it be an acceptable machine?


Thanks very much

[enstrompilot]

yes there was some vibration both generally and on approach, though not noticable worst than a eurocopter.
I don't know if the vibration was engine or Rota, perhaps an amount of both so changing to turbine may have only solved some part of the vibration characteristics
I suspect the mil 34 would be a different (and considerably better) machine with a good powerful turbine, I would be pleased to see a russian or east european simple robust turbine or perhaps an Artoust like on the Alloutte/ Gazel. The RR alison would be a mismatch to what is if nothing else is a very robust machine but I guess would make the machine over priced, perhaps that why few turbine models were delivered.
I own a Yak 18T with the 400hp version of the 14p engine used inthe mil 34. I am a great fan of the engine, it is light, strong, robust and reliable and apperently takes a good deal of mis use in its stride. they have a low TBO but when I replaced my engine at TBO and upgraded it cost $15,000 for a new (not zero timed) engine complete with ALL ancilleries. comapre that to a lycoming!. Though oil consumption of 1 ltr per hr is considerd good, 3ltr per hour is acceptable !, there is talk that the engine is approved to run on Mogas
Ian

[160thfan]

That was what we expected to see. So no surprises- Good.
Thanks.

[allyn]

Some detailed pictures of the MI-34:

http://www.deagel.com/search.aspx?cat=Photo&eq=a000026001

[TheMonk]

I remember that they were offering this Mi 34 for around $350k USD six-eight years ago. It is a 2+2, which is, in my opinion a direct competitor for the R44, but smaller over all (more tidy design) and fully aerobatic to boot.

I also think that it is as well-built/designed if not better-built/designed than the R44. Since the R44 is so well received, wonder why this wasn't as well received.

That radial engine, M-14 I believe, is used world wide in many different certified and homebuilt planes. I'd dare to say that that engine is a "proven" engine.

Monk

[enstrompilot]

hi
back from hungary
flew trhe mi 34 4 up ! - slow (typically 75 mph) but otherwise perfectly reasonable.

Definately NOT a competitor to the R44

I have lots of pic's, how do I load them, send email to [email protected], i'll send you a full set

Ian

[heli-cal]

Hi,

Helicopter Life has the Mil Mi-34 on the cover of the latest issue, together with a flight evaluation and interview with the guy who owns the manufacturing rights and his plans for its future production.
Lots of photo's too.

Regards,

heli-cal