Norway to buy C-130J??? ....and ASAP!????

[M609]

All over the news this week over here.
The Norwegian MOD has finally understood that the old C-130Hs are nackered.
4 of 6 are in Canada to get "new" wings (from the scrapyard), with one more to follow. The result: One operational Herc.
They have found severe corrotion damage on several airframes as well.
The MOD is considering trying to "snach" aircraft on order for other forces, in less dire need. Apparently they might buy or lease 4 aircraft ASAP. :)
Final decision is pending....... :D
Sorry, no english articles, in Norwegian: http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/article1596357.ece

[BEagle]

Might I suggest Sir leases a few C-130s until such time as the A400M is available?

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/A400M.jpg

Perhaps Sir should place his order now to avoid disappointment?

[G-UNIT]

Whereabouts are the cupholders?

[The Helpful Stacker]

Yeah, why would Norway want to buy an operationally proved aircraft when they can buy into a design concept picture?

[microlight AV8R]

I understood that the first A400M was actually being assembled in Germany as we type?

[The Helpful Stacker]

I understood that the first A400M was actually being assembled in Germany as we type?

Being assembled, so no actual complete a/c to take pictures of, hence design concept pictures still being used for the PR.

Of course I'm sure it'll be ready for sale in no time at all knowing what the European aircraft industry is like....:rolleyes:

[scroggs]

Whereabouts are the cupholders?

Just aft of the sidesticks, as it happens.

[L1A2 discharged]

Never mind cupholders - where is the steering wheel?
:)

[Always a Sapper]

Ok for ambidextrous pilots :ok: but what about the rest? if you’re sat in the left seat, are right handed and have the left handed co-ordination a-kin to a surgeon wearing boxing gloves, then landings are going to be oh so much fun when flown manual........:eek:

[NightFlit]

I understood that the first A400M was actually being assembled in Germany as we type?

Marshalls are still in the process of testing the engine.

[skaterboi]

Ok for ambidextrous pilots :ok: but what about the rest? if you’re sat in the left seat, are right handed and have the left handed co-ordination a-kin to a surgeon wearing boxing gloves, then landings are going to be oh so much fun when flown manual........:eek:

It's no different to moving from co to captain on the Herc. It only takes a couple of trips to learn to cope with it, so I'd say be there and cope or don't move to the left hand seat :ok:

[Safety_Helmut]

Yeah, why would Norway want to buy an operationally proved aircraft when they can buy into a design concept picture?
More insightful wit and wisdom THS. :ugh:

S_H

[NURSE]

unfortunatley for the A400m many of the customers who looked like they were holding out for A400 or at least for some compition to the herc have now disvcovered due to operational considerations they need airlift capability now and not in 5 years time, Leasing or extending service life is expensive and why pay now and pay later for new A400's when they can have shiney new C130J's and C17's in the next 2-3 years.

[BEagle]

When FLA begat FSTA and FTA, the choice was between A400M and C130J as FTA, although STSA was identified as a requirement until FTA became reality.

C310J provided tranche 1 of FTA and C130K was to be kept in service until tranche 2, A400M, became available; C-17 provided the STSA element. However, STSA appears to be established now as part of the FTA requirement as the C-17s are to be acquired conventionally.

It didn't help that Germany delayed A400M by not signing up on time, hence C130K must carry on for longer than was originally envisaged.





I think....??

[mbga9pgf]

When FLA begat FSTA and FTA, the choice was between A400M and C130J as FTA, although STSA was identified as a requirement until FTA became reality.
C310J provided tranche 1 of FTA and C130K was to be kept in service until tranche 2, A400M, became available; C-17 provided the STSA element. However, STSA appears to be established now as part of the FTA requirement as the C-17s are to be acquired conventionally.
It didn't help that Germany delayed A400M by not signing up on time, hence C130K must carry on for longer than was originally envisaged.
I think....??
Problem is beags, we cant wait for A400M, no matter how good it is. We are majorly hurting for AT right NOW. To this end, the J is being flogged into the ground as a result of lack of Tactical Air Transport. Truth is, we could do with another 10 Js and appropriate number of Crews YESTERDAY, not tommorrow. The K simply cannot support the tempo of ops in theatre due to its well-known problems.

[NURSE]

And it would appear its not just the UK in this position. Airbus could be unlucky this time and have a superb product but to late for the market

[herkman]

My understanding, was that snoopy was be put back to standard, and was going to be sold to the Dutch.

Using it to test fly the 400 engine does not make a lot of sense, when one looks at how badly the RAF could use a low houred C130. Could have done the job with any tired C130K.

I presume in doing the conversion, that consideration was given to putting it back to standard.

Regards

Col

[sprucemoose]

Norway has been touted as a customer for the J and the A400M for ages now, but will meet its AT needs with its patched up Hs and via its involvement in NATO efforts to gain leased access to An-124s (already signed) and C-17s (pending).

As some have suggested here, why should Oslo sign up to the A400M now? There's no industrial workshare to be had by a new customer, and the Hs will run on long enough to give it a chance to fly the A400M before it commits to buying.

[ORAC]

I presume in doing the conversion, that consideration was given to putting it back to standard. My understanding is that the mods are so extensive that reconversion is uneconomic and the airframe will be reduced for spares then scrapped.

[sprucemoose]

I think ORAC is right as regards Snoopy. The aircraft is now owned by Marshall Aerospace, and any question of it joining the RAF fleet went out of the window when the DSA started to market it for disposal. Should look pretty peculiar once the TP400 engine is on the wing!

[matkat]

I understood that the first A400M was actually being assembled in Germany as we type?
Would think not as the final assembly line (FAL) is in seville. The fuselage will be constructed in Bremen and then transported by guppy to the FAL.

[microlight AV8R]

Agreed, Major fuselage sections building now in germany. Also understand the wings have been completed here in Blighty. It is taking shape and certainly beyond being a concept. If it wasn't for the pressure of these two idiotic wars I'm sure you chaps would be looking forward to the A400M coming into service.

In the meantime, why not buy a few more Tristars from the desert supermarket as a long haul stop gap. I bet there are a few configured as freighters sitting there. Could that relieve some C130J from flying routes and allow them to do what they were built for? Speaking as somebody who had the fun of flying east of Suez in a whistling wheelbarrow I can see the folly of the 1974 cuts.

I take my hat off to all involved in trying to keep things moving.

[3 bladed beast]

All very childish indeed! However I seem to remember the Chinook out lifting the 'k' in Afganistan quite significantly....

Infact, the 'k' was only lifting 3 tonnes in the heat of the summer, hot and high......

[M609]

The buy confirmed today. Norwegian minister of defense Anne-Grete Strøm-Erichsen gave the news at a press conference in Oslo today 25/5.

The deal is going to be for 4 C-130J-30s, the first to reach operational capability in 2009.

I bet the crews at 335Sqn are happy today.

(And the soldiers will be pleased to avoid travel with several semi-dodgy east block charter aircraft.......)


It is going to be a big stink in the parliament over this, but when you allow "communists" into a coalition goverment, that's what you get! :D

[nigegilb]

Result for RNAF. Say hello to Lasse if you see him.

PS landed the C130K at 170,000lbs plus into Bagram strip many a time. Full to the brim with fuel for the Chinner mates to use from the bag tanks. It is still an awesome beast!

[fat albert]

Which may go some of the way to explaining why they're all shagged now! :p

[nigegilb]

Ooh err, you're not allowed to do that these days are you? Nothing to do with me, my landings were always very smoooth...........;)

[normally right blank]

Good thing we have the Il-76's (and An-124's) on our side now ;) - not to mention the An-12 and Mil 8/17. :hmm:

[oxoneil]

Yep there were 3 on an airfield 2 mins away from me the other day.

[M609]

The 450 million euro (approx) buy was approved in the Norwegian parliament today. :D

But: The Norwegian MOD allso informed the public that Airbus has run a smear campaign against LM, giving false information about the abilities of the C130J. :suspect:

Airbus published a memo to the media, and perhaps more importantly to the members of the parliament defense committee, claiming that the C130J came last in all 7 comparison studies performed by the N-MOD. (The studies are classified)

The claim is completely wrong according to the same N-MOD

(Airbus also claimed 2 weeks ago,that the first A400 could be fully operational with the RNoAF in January 2010)

The media has made the misinformation case the major storyline, bringing in a lot of commentators on spin, corruption, lobbying etc.

Still, in the end, good result for the 335Sqn, the governments till is shut tight nowadays. Congrats! :D

[MarkD]

Airbus Military seem to be going crying to the media a lot on A400M and CN-295. No disrespect Beags, but A400M isn't flying yet and I suspect a couple of replacements have been pushed back to try and have competition i.e. the RAF C-17 lease but time's run out and the airforces need kit.

They were right about US KC-767 and Druyun, I'll give them that.

[Two's in]

The media has made the misinformation case the major storyline, bringing in a lot of commentators on spin, corruption, lobbying etc.

...poor darlings, it's called Marketing in the grown-up's world, and it's only bad form to tell outright porkies and get caught. He who sells wins.

[BEagle]

There is a delay in the A400M programme, widely reported, due to the need to strengthen some internal TP400-D6 engine components as a result of ground testing experience.

Hence the engine will not now fly until Q4 2007.

However, first A400M flight and first delivery are still scheduled for 2009.

With the number of A400M orders already secured for other customers, it would perhaps have been doubtful whether the RNoAF could receive A400Ms in 2009, so they have had to settle for the less capable C130J.

Which will still be a good freight aircraft for the RNoAF, of course - just not as good as the A400M will be, had they been able to wait.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Beags,

The good folk of Pruneland have accused you of many things over the years but naivety is new one on me,

"However, first A400M flight and first delivery are still scheduled for 2009."

Even someone as daft as me knows there is a world of difference between scheduled and actuality :rolleyes:

I know you work for them and have a vested interest but please credit the rest of us with some intelligence :=

[BEagle]

Well, consult your crystal bollocks then and tell me when the first flight of the A400M will take place!

There is a scheduled date; whether or not that will be ultimately achieved obviously cannot be stated with certainty at this stage, o intelligent one.

And I do NOT work on the A400M programme!

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Two posts back you make "qualified" statements ................now you say you don't know anything and I should consult my "crystal bits", a bit of consistency would be good here old chap :rolleyes:

[BEagle]

My comments came from open sources.

Hardly rocket science for those who are sufficiently interested to keep up with the programme, I would have thought.