US Launches Airstrikes in Somalia

[Spotting Bad Guys]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/6243459.stm

SBG

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Hitting 250 terrs should make a significant difference; unless most of them are just people, as reported by the BBC. Does anyone know how BDAs are conducted for such events? Do they insert a team to examine the effects?

[Spotting Bad Guys]

I think the '250 dead' refers to the people killed in the Embassy bombings. It will be interesting to see the US official statement later today!

SBG

[Had Enough 77]

Excellent, lets all go to another war now! This was really not the best idea that they have had:ugh: .

I think all this will have done is stir up a hornets nest in east Africa. Do they not learn from their mistakes, they have been here before and did not do all that well. Mind you, now with all their operational 'succsesses' they might fancy having another crack of the whip. I really do despair, lets finish the two wars we are fighting just now before we go headlong into another one (we would probably go along with our american cousins as our political masters think we are not that busy just now):ugh:

[brain fade]

I guess the US will do ok in Somalia- as long as they don't land.

Q. How do you turn an innocent civvy into a terr?

A. Smoke him.

[BEagle]

BDA after an AC-130 operation will be somewhat tricky - all that's likely to be found is hamburger..........

[threepointonefour]

So they weren't in Iraq all along?

Apparently, the US has had 1500 troops in the region for some years to prevent such a gathering of terrorists. One has to ask what they've been doing? Dunkin donut anyone?

[GPMG]

all that's likely to be found is hamburger..........


Doubt there will be much of that in a Muslim country, unless it comes from McDonalds, in that case there would be no trace of ham, meat or anything of nourishment value.

[Razor61]

The US has a major base in the region. The Combined Joint Task Force (CJTF) has been there for years along with French troops and others. Their base is Camp Lemonier in Djibouti and its purpose is to provide security for the region if conflict breaks out (which it has), Food and Medical aid for the region, water projects etc etc and to get rid of terrorism in the region, which it is doing. Along with that, NATO and the French are also out to sea getting rid of the Somali pirates.

So the US are doing what they are supposed to be doing in the region, stamping out terrorism. Yemen, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Djibouti all contribute troops to the CJTF.

[JAG3]

I can't believe this news. How stupid is the american government. There killing innocent people with the only consequence of them gaining more enemies. Are they looking to start another war because what gives them the right to just bomb Somalia.:mad:

[moggiee]

Doubt there will be much of that in a Muslim country, unless it comes from McDonalds, in that case there would be no trace of ham, meat or anything of nourishment value.
Don't worry - you should not find "Ham" in any "Hamburger", what with it being a beef patty named after the city of Hamburg.

You should not find anyone called Frank in a Frankfurter (unless he upset the Mafia!).

[moggiee]

So the US are doing what they are supposed to be doing in the region, stamping out terrorism. Yemen, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Djibouti all contribute troops to the CJTF.
Well, after their success in doing that in Somalia last time and Iraq now, who could blame the USA for wanting to continue a winning streak.

What a shambles.

Note to Bliar and Brown - "STAY OUT OF THIS ONE, PLEASE!"

[Lazer-Hound]

Sad but not unexpected that this apparently successful USAF operation has led to such an outpouring of anti-American vitriol on Pprune.

[Talking Radalt]

Don't worry - you should not find "Ham" in any "Hamburger", what with it being a beef patty named after the city of Hamburg.
You should not find anyone called Frank in a Frankfurter (unless he upset the Mafia!).
I went to the Virgin Islands once....very much let down.:(

[ORAC]

what gives them the right to just bomb Somalia. The U.N. recognised Somali government...

"The U.S. were trying to kill the al-Qaida terrorists who carried out the bomb attacks on their embassies in Kenya and Tanzania," Deputy Prime Minister Hussein Aideed told The Associated Press. "They have our full support for the attacks."

[BEagle]

Well, I'm not normally known for being much of a supporter of Uncle Sam, but if these operations have successfully taken out more of those worthless pieces of $hit who plague the planet with their terrorist extremism, then Good Show, I say!



"Don't worry - you should not find "Ham" in any "Hamburger", what with it being a beef patty named after the city of Hamburg.

You should not find anyone called Frank in a Frankfurter (unless he upset the Mafia!)."

And I know what you most certainly wouldn't want to find in 'Spotted Dick'....:eek:

[WhiteOvies]

I'm with L-H on this one.
The USAF team are there to do jobs just like this, they have the backing of the Somalian President and when a decent target of oppurtunity presented itself they took the neccessary steps. There is no mention of ground forces being sent in, the Somali 'government' troops with Ethiopian backing seem to be doing a good job on this one already.

[ORAC]

BBC: .......In other developments:

Ethiopia's Prime Minister Meles Zenawi says foreign fighters from Canada, Eritrea, Pakistan, Sudan, the United Kingdom and Yemen have been captured in Somalia.

EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana tells the BBC that the EU is ready to help deploy troops in Somalia and casts doubt on the ability of the African Union to send a peacekeeping force........

[maxburner]

Somalia's head of state seems to welcome this US action. If the terrorists they have taken out could have been planting bombs around London later this year then we owe the US a vote of thanks.

[Mr-AEO]

I am slightly troubled by this approach.

The targets were suspects in the bombings of two U.S. embassies in East Africa in 1998.

I think that we could save a whole lot of money in court fees in this country if we adopted this approach in the UK and sentenced all people 'suspected' of a crime immediately. This would do away with the need for a tiresome and silly trial. The fuzz has caught them so obviously they are guilty....

but don't we operate within the law? this is why we can hold our heads up in the world and say "We are considerably better than thou" to Tommy Taliban.

I'm not clear why/if International Law allows us to kill suspects without trial, even when they are not shooting us, or about to shoot us (aka ROE).

So maybe this is just another example of 'illegal military action'.

[Lazer-Hound]

I am slightly troubled by this approach.



I think that we could save a whole lot of money in court fees in this country if we adopted this approach in the UK and sentenced all people 'suspected' of a crime immediately. This would do away with the need for a tiresome and silly trial. The fuzz has caught them so obviously they are guilty....

but don't we operate within the law? this is why we can hold our heads up in the world and say "We are considerably better than thou" to Tommy Taliban.

I'm not clear why/if International Law allows us to kill suspects without trial, even when they are not shooting us, or about to shoot us (aka ROE).

So maybe this is just another example of 'illegal military action'.


Well I'm sure you'll volunteer to serve a warrant on the suspects in their Somali encampments requiring them to present themselves at Bow Street Magistrates the following week so they can have a 'fair trial':ugh:

[SASless]

For you Spam bashers out there....tell me what the difference between the AC-130 strike in Somalia and the SAS hits in Gib is? The IRA bombing suspects were killed by the SAS without any consideration of an arrest and trial.

Were not those Irish Terrorists entitled to a fair trial?

You do recall of course that the Aideed fellow (assuming he was the son of the Aideed targetted by the US in '93.....is that man's son who served in the US Marine Corps.)

[BenThere]

I find it interesting that the people with bad things to say about this skirmish are a senior official with the EU, and Zawahiri and al-Qaeda.

I'd like to see a little more of the burden for avoiding collateral death placed on the beligerants who operate and hide among civilians, using our desire and obligation to avoid collateral death as an effective weapon against us.

[Mr-AEO]

LazerHound. Quite blatantly, in some circumstances, it is impossible to do such things. In which case, I would have thought that you would have to get cover from either your ROE, because you are at war, or an over-riding mandate from the UN. Otherwise, the hit is effectively 00; as in 007, licence to kill, without recourse to any kind of proof whatsoever. To take this a step further, the US could efectively decapitate anyone they like in the world by first branding them a terrorist suspect. As it is, they lock them up for years without trial in a prison in contravention of the Geneva Convention so I suppose the next step is to kill them, to save on beds/food etc. Does the US play by the rules or not? As I said, we can decend to playing by terrorist rules, but then, imho, we cannot claim to be a force for good - the waters muddy.

As for the IRA in Gib?
1988: 'SAS killed lawfully' - Gibraltar jury
The killing of three unarmed IRA suspects by British soldiers was lawful, a Gibraltar court has found.

The jury took less than seven hours to reach the 9-2 majority verdict on the shootings in March 1988 of Sean Savage, Daniel McCann, and Mairead Farrell. The elite SAS team shot the suspects because they believed the republican dissidents were about to detonate a remote control bomb in the tiny British territory.

There was a jury & court involved, post the event I grant you, but justuce was upheld. Will these Somali 'suspects' be tried in court, ever? Probably not. Because most of them were probably collateral.

[ORAC]

To take this a step further, the US could efectively decapitate anyone they like in the world by first branding them a terrorist suspect. I think you'll find that's the Russians....

Russia's New Cold War: (http://www.sundayherald.com/news/specialreports/display.var.1042200.0.russias_new_cold_war.php).....July 9 this year was a seismic date. On that day legislators in the Duma - the Russian state parliament - unanimously approved new laws which allowed Russia's Federal Security Service to hunt down and kill enemies of the state anywhere on the face of the Earth....

[handysnaks]

Sasless.

I'm not a spam basher, and if the Somalia operation has worked then great. However, to compare it with the Gibraltar killings? Anyway, to answer your question
For you Spam bashers out there....tell me what the difference between the AC-130 strike in Somalia and the SAS hits in Gib is? The IRA bombing suspects were killed by the SAS without any consideration of an arrest and trial.


AC 130 armament
two M61 20mm Vulcan cannons
with 3,000 rounds
one L60 40mm Bofors cannon
with 256 rounds
one M102 105mm howitzer
with 100 rounds
One 25mm GAU-12 Gatling gun
(1,800 rounds per minute)
one L60 40mm Bofors cannon
(100 shots per minute)
one M102 105mm cannon
(6-10 rounds per minute)

Gibraltar killings
25 rounds (9mm as a guess)

[West Coast]

"There was a jury & court involved, post the event I grant you"
So then you support shoot first and ask questions later I see. No different chap.
"Will these Somali 'suspects' be tried in court, ever? Probably not"
At least as good a chance as the IRA thugs had before the trigger was pulled. Not usre, will look it up when I get home but I believe some were tried in absentia. If true, then if they are among the dead, they received at least as fair a trail as the IRA boys in Gib.
"As it is, they lock them up for years without trial in a prison"
You talking about gitmo or a certain prision that housed IRA terrorists?
"Probably not. Because most of them were probably collateral"
The op isn't complete, how do you feel using what little info is out there you can make an informed conclusion? Credibilty at stake.
Trying to stake the moral high ground must be tough when the surface is made of swiss cheese.

[West Coast]

Snaks

The operation is the same, simply the weapons used differ.