Channel 4 Now. Dispatches in Afghanistan

[mbga9pgf]

Worth A watch

[AonP]

Agreed, very good so far, has highlighted a number of shortcomings especially regarding aviation assets!

Web link:

http://www.channel4.com/news/dispatches/article.jsp?id=986

[mbga9pgf]

Agreed, very good so far, has highlighted a number of shortcomings especially regarding aviation assets!
Certainly puts the Army's moans in perspective. No wonder the MOD dont want this shown!

Continues Thursday, 23:00 from the Flip-Flops perspective. Again, could be well worth a watch.

[Tonkenna]

Very interesting, and only increases my respect for those guys...

Tonks

[JAG3]

It was a chilling but different aspect of reporting and showed a side of the armed forces that I haven't seen before. Interesting to hear the sound of the A-10 and also the reporter mentioning a presence of the B1.

[airborne_artist]

And after five/six days of wall to wall combat, no sleep, not enough food, lack of casevac once (or more) and running short on food and meds. they have to leave the position to be re-occupied by the Taleban :ugh:

[DEL Mode]

and what exactly are we stabilising?

[Melchett01]

and what exactly are we stabilising?
The house just behind the mosque. Then the house over the road. Then the compound on the outskirts of town before moving on to secure the treeline in the distance.

And that isn't me being flippant. This is back to WW2 advancing through Normandy, clearing areas house by house and field by field. Only then, we didn't pull back after 6 days of fighting and hand it straight back to the enemy. That only happens when politicians get too involved in the fighting.

I certainly hope that people, politicians especially realise what is actually going on out on the ground, and that whoever decided to go to war with only 8 CH-47s is thoroughly ashamed of themselves - I thought they learnt how to plann effectively at Shriv?!

[Razor61]

The Government can now see the morale of our troops, and their faces when they were told they were leaving the town after six days of intense fighting because re-inforcements were coming, then being told they were not....so basically for nothing...

It was interesting to see the different regiments all working together in such a small unit. AAC actually taking the charge, with Blues And Royals, Light Infantry, Royal Irish Regiment, Scots.... etc....and the Estonians with us...

[wg13_dummy]

This is what our lads get;

http://www.warshipsifr.com/media/rm_wmik.jpg





And this is what the 'third world counrty' of Estonia provide for their chaps;

http://mamba.armour.co.za/images/mamba2.jpg



The Mambas were actually Brit vehicles that we flogged to them at a fraction of the cost.

Here's a bit more on it.

Our caring, sharing MoD (http://eureferendum.********.com/2007/01/our-caring-sharing-mod.html)

[AC Ovee]

Hang on, guys, the fall back might not have been a British decision. I understood the scenario to be that the ANA and ANP were the primary fighting elements of the push against the Taleban in that area, with light UK/Estonian rear support (hence the mishmash of a few UK resources and permision for a TV crew to go along). It was a decision by the ANA/ANP to not send re-inforcements to maintain the security of the village, and we don't know why they changed their minds. There was a report of a bigger batttle elswhere in Helmand. Yes, disappointing for those involved, but we didn't see the bigger picture.

[wg13_dummy]

Hang on, guys, the fall back might not have been a British decision. I understood the scenario to be that the ANA and ANP were the primary fighting elements of the push against the Taleban in that area, with light UK/Estonian rear support (hence the mishmash of a few UK resources and permision for a TV crew to go along). It was a decision by the ANA/ANP to not send re-inforcements to maintain the security of the village, and we don't know why they changed their minds. There was a report of a bigger batttle elswhere in Helmand. Yes, disappointing for those involved, but we didn't see the bigger picture.


The bigger picture should be we either commit 100% or not at all.

It's either a peace keeping/enforcing op where we assist and support a fledgling regime or we do the war fighting bit first then follow up with the tree hugging bit. At present, we are half heartidly commited to a war run and lead by a bunch of gun toting ragheads. British servicemen should never be put in a situation where they cannot at least command and control their own destiny.

[Talking Radalt]

This is what our lads get;

Not entirely true. The WMIKs now have retro fitted "soft" armour....that stuff that looks like tri-wall boxes folded flat and hung all over the vehicle.
Still no Mamba though, but then, Mamba > Chinook cabin.

[Secret Squire]

Does anyone know if it is possible to view this online, a la panorama thing on afghan a few weeks back, for those of us that are students on the verge of turning pongo officer (fair few of us in this flat), and who don't have a tv?

Cheers

SS

[airborne_artist]

SS- I think it's available as a download at http://www.channel4.com/4od/

the reason they are all from different regts is that the UK team was cobbled together at the last minute - the Irish officer was at a desk in Kandahar planning trg for Afghan troops, for example. They scooped up people who were vaguely free, for what was supposed to be a 2 day job. Officially they were a "Operational Mentoring & Liaison Team (OMLT)"!

Article in the Mail that describes the action is here (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=418786&in_page_id=1770).

"....three officers were given 24 hours to scrape together what men and equipment they could, and ordered to lead around 200 Afghan National Army (ANA) and police on a desperate 100-mile dash across Taliban-held desert in open top Land Rovers and trucks, groaning with all the ammunition they could carry."

[threepointonefour]

This is back to WW2 advancing through Normandy, clearing areas house by house and field by field. Only then, we didn't pull back after 6 days of fighting and hand it straight back to the enemy.


The scary thing is that this is exactly what happened in WW1.

[London Mil]

Well I thought it was a smashing advertisment for the professionalism of the British squaddy. Cobbled together with a couple of bits of string and a tin of beans they got on with the job in hand. The most telling bit however was the last clip of the cpl medic who was lost for words at the incredulity of the fact they were now having to withdraw.
There was also the bit where the captain was on the blower about "critical this and critical that" and you could just imagine the chiseler in Bde HQ on the other end giving it "yeah, yeah, whatever".

ISAF - good to see they still cannot organize the proverbial wine tasting in a vinyard.

[spectre150]

And this is what the 'third world counrty' of Estonia provide for their chaps;

Going off thread and irrelevant in the contex of the important issues raised in the TV programme and this thread but I just cant stop myself reacting. Fellow NATO and EU member Estonia third world? I think not.

Excellent programme - liked the way that the TV crew let the drama of the situation speak for itself and didnt try and sex it up.

[wg13_dummy]

And this is what the 'third world counrty' of Estonia provide for their chaps;
Going off thread and irrelevant in the contex of the important issues raised in the TV programme and this thread but I just cant stop myself reacting. Fellow NATO and EU member Estonia third world? I think not.
Excellent programme - liked the way that the TV crew let the drama of the situation speak for itself and didnt try and sex it up.


It was said very much tongue in cheek. Almost relating to thier Eurovision Song Contest recognition. Point I was making was they have better kit than us (but so does The Ivory Coast, Iceland and Kazakhstan; jagshemash :hmm: )

[Had Enough 77]

Excellent programme, it was very well presented and you could see that the army chaps on the ground respected the reporter. I think the most salient point was when the reporter after speaking to the irish rangers(I think) captain, he learned of the fate of the village. He then told one of the soldiers, i think he was the medic, the look on his face firstly thought he was joking, after he realised he wasn't joking it turned to one of disgust.

It must be absolutely soul destroying out there to fight long and hard only to walk away and let the enemy waltz back in. I did think that it showed our soldiers to have a huge amount of proffesionalism and integrity, especially when dealing with the injured taliban prisoner.

It will lead to some embarressed faces in the MOD but i think that is about all that will happen. It just highlights the complete lack of resources out there for the actual WAR that is being fought, while at home we are ready for the next round of cuts to reduce our Armed forces to some kind of self defence force.:mad:

[Antique Driver]

Excellent programme - looking forward to tonight's.

Has increased my respect and admiration for the boys on the ground in Afghan. I knew the situation was poor but I hadn't realised just how bad!

Perhaps the MOD and our government may start to realise that the only thing holding our armed forces together is the true grit and professionalism of the Britsih squaddie/airman/matelot.

Either support us or pull us out of these theatres asap.

[Regie Mental]

An outstanding piece, and fair play to the journo for ignoring the Brit Mil refusal to allow him access to go in as a unilateral. The situation on the ground in both Afg and Iraq is such that unilaterals are scarce on the ground these days, not least because they are themselves targets. So to go in as he did took guts and he clearly didn't become a burden to the troops either.

Just goes to show that the media are not all on a mission to shaft the military.

[wg13_dummy]

the only thing holding our armed forces together is the true grit and professionalism of the Britsih squaddie/airman/matelot.


The Government already do realise this. To them, it's free and an excuse to remove most parts of sensible funding.

[GeeRam]

An outstanding piece, and fair play to the journo for ignoring the Brit Mil refusal to allow him access to go in as a unilateral. The situation on the ground in both Afg and Iraq is such that unilaterals are scarce on the ground these days, not least because they are themselves targets. So to go in as he did took guts and he clearly didn't become a burden to the troops either.
Just goes to show that the media are not all on a mission to shaft the military.

Quite.

And I thought it was an apt piece of journalism towards the end, when sitting on the floor of the LR and filming close in the pile of .50 cal brass on the floor, and reminding everyone of the 'we won't need to fire a shot' speech of Reid, as yet more empty .50 cal brass rained down on top of him.......

[TurbineTooHot]

"That only happens when politicians get too involved in the fighting."

Well maybe if those B:mad: :mad: tards actually go out there with out armour, pick up a rifle and get in the poo with the lads, they might do something more than pontificate and then f:mad: ck us all over.

Rant off.

BTw, does anyone know how I can get this program via t'interweb, as am away at the mo. Ta

[Navy_Adversary]

Excellent programme, the guys were fortunate when that bullet passed straight through the Land Rover, not sure if that would happen with a Humvee.

Someone posted about commit 100% or not at all, is that what George is going to announce on Friday?

Could do with a few 'Hogs' out of the Boneyard and get the AAC trained up, wouldn't take long. The USAF did not have twin seat A-10s so it cannot be that difficult:cool:
If we are a bit short on CAS what about a C-130 with one of those bloody great bombs that you drop off the ramp, that should steady the Taliban up for a while.:ok:

[cobaltfrog]

LI Captain (Illingworth) just got the CGC! Good effort:D

[November4]

Think I saw that the Royal Irish Capt - former RSM under Lt Col Collins - was awarded the MC for the action.

[TEEEJ]

Excellent programme - looking forward to tonight's.

Has increased my respect and admiration for the boys on the ground in Afghan. I knew the situation was poor but I hadn't realised just how bad!

Perhaps the MOD and our government may start to realise that the only thing holding our armed forces together is the true grit and professionalism of the Britsih squaddie/airman/matelot.

Either support us or pull us out of these theatres asap.

Tonight? Part two is at 2300 on Thursday - Dispatches: Meeting the Taliban.

[Razor61]

Excellent programme, the guys were fortunate when that bullet passed straight through the Land Rover, not sure if that would happen with a Humvee.

Or the new Panther being tested at Bovington i assume.
If you look at this link:- here (http://www.army-technology.com/projects/) and see what all the other arms are using for their patrol vehicles, makes you a bit pissed off that our boys are still sitting in open topped land rovers.
And the new Mastiff, not even the RPG idiots could miss a hooving big tall vehicle as that.... :mad:

[Razor61]

This is what the MoD had to say:-
"Dispatches - Fighting the Taliban"
There is a some follow-up coverage of the television documentary "Dispatches - Fighting the Taliban" shown on UK network Channel Four last night. The film features a UK Operational Mentoring and Liaison Team in Southern Afghanistan during September 2006.

We pay tribute to the courage, fortitude and professionalism of the British Service personnel seen in this film, which also showed how the Afghan National Army and Afghan National Police are increasingly shouldering responsibility for their country's security, and taking the fight to the Taliban.

The MOD went to great lengths to accommodate the documentary maker's wishes and arrange for him to visit our front line troops. However, as always, operational considerations will have effected our ability to provide everything that he wanted.

The documentary maker voiced concerns over logistic resupply and whether NATO and Afghan forces were winning. Brigadier Jerry Thomas, the commander of the UK task force in Afghanistan, has asked the MoD to issue the following statement:

"The situation in Helmand Province has changed markedly since the Dispatches film was made. Since then, British forces have moved into new areas throughout the province, including Garmsir, and made real improvements to security. We have inflicted heavy losses on the Taliban, denied them freedom of movement, and made great progress in winning the hearts and minds of the local people.

"This remains a very challenging mission, but we are winning. Just last week, Royal Marines of the UK Task Force commando forces engaged and destroyed a Taliban training camp in the north east of the province, which will allow contractors to carry out repairs to a hydro-electric dam in Kajaki, which will produce electricity for 1.8 million people in the south of Afghanistan who until now have had none.

"This success would not have been possible unless our forces were properly equipped and supplied. To be clear, I have not asked for additional helicopters and the supply system is working well, with no soldiers or marines running out of food. It is the nature of the conflict that they do not take more supplies than they need to carry; but we have an extraordinary resupply system in place to ensure that they do not run out."

[Green Flash]

Good to see the Estonians. Worked with them in Afg about 2 years ago. They remind me of the Cloggies - barking mad but allways up for a good scrap. Aggree with all coments about the Mambas, though! (Alvis, aren't they?)

[airborne_artist]

Bringing this to the top as Part two is on C4 tonight at 2305

http://www.channel4.com/news/dispatches/article.jsp?id=1046 for the article that accompanies the programme.

[Polikarpov]

If, like me, you missed this first time around, you might like to set your video for the early hours of tomorrow morning.


Dispatches: Fighting the Taliban
4:25am-5:15am
Friday 12th January
Channel 4 (rpt)