The Curse .....to G.A.

[flyingphil1]

I know of one individual who bought a Robin .. thinking he could keep it outside ….
I know of one individual within 200 hours having 3 engines (single engined Piper)
Another just paid £8000 for a star annual (C 150)

Anyone else kicked a Gypsy?:\

[evansb]

I stubbed my toe on a Gypsy Major that was lying on the floor of a museum.

Do tell, what happened to the Robin?
What was the nature of the Piper's engine problems.
Why oh why did it cost so much for the Cessna inspection?

[flyingphil1]

The Robin now lives in a hangar, very expensive and far away ..the engine suffered a miriad of problems .. no doubt the owner will contribute soon ... the 150 just an expensive annual all the others were about 2.5k but new mags, prop overhaul and 4 cylinders still made it expensive:\

[IO540]

£8000 for a C150 Annual is not out of line, if the aircraft is used either for PPL training, or is within a large syndicate of > 20 members and thus needs to be on a Transport CofA.

This just shows the false economy of operating old wreckage.

[scooter boy]

"operating old wreckage."[/quote]

IO, it's good to see you back on form!

Happy New Year!
SB

[stiknruda]

This just shows the false economy of operating old wreckage.

A tad harsh IO, this could be the sweetest, prettiest 150 in the world.

Four new cylinders £1600, fixed pitch prop "tuned" £800, exchange mags £800. In all £3200 for bits.

Still makes it expensive!

[fltcom]

I once knew a guy who bought his first aeroplane and thought he could save the cost of a pre-purchase inspection. - The first annual came to £10K :eek:

Flt

[IO540]

Happy New Year SB :)

I know I often write in a rather hyperbolic style, but I think my statement does stand up financially. Old planes can cost a huge amount in ongoing maintenance.

[Sir George Cayley]

So do older women...........






Cars...............







Boats............








Houses.............








Runways (at Brizzol).......








I know - Coat - door -- close it behind you!



Sir George Cayley

[flyingphil1]

With boats, planes and women .. its cheaper to rent. The 150 in question is operated by one person and flown by 4. Apparently EASA is going to make flying more expensive along with more expensive fuel and fewer fields .. anyone for Tennis..

[OpenCirrus619]

With boats, planes and women .. its cheaper to rent.

Another version: "If it Flies, Floats or F**ks it's cheaper to rent by the hour".

OC619

[flyingphil1]

I was trying to protect the innocent!

[FLYINGALPINE]

Flying only cost so much because we all just go to the man on the airfield where we are based , and they all take us for a ride when it comes to getting the bill ready.:E
If you take your plane to another airfield away from your base when something goes wrong the local man won't even look at you.:=
It all a closed shop , if it ever gets to the point when airfields close down the last people i will feel sorry for are the engineers .
8,000 FOR A 150 annual did he gold plate it for you?

[A and C]

I have seen a lot of utter rubbish on this forum but your post about engineers is by far the biggest load of utter bull that I have ever seen.
I have yet to see a rich engineer in the GA business largely because cheap skates like you won't pay more that £40/hour for labour and put off prevenative maintenance because of cost and then squeel like stuck piggs when the aircraft gets to such a state that all the work has to be done at once.
Most people selling aircraft do so when they can no longer afford to keep it, this sneeks up on them and as a result they have not spent enough on the aircraft upkeep and the next owner buys the last three years worth of problems that have been stored up.
IO540 is correct about old aircraft, they cost a lot of money to put right, in my opinion to put an aircraft back into tip-top condition (new engine,paint,radios and the like) it will cost about 1.5x the perchase price.
As for the closed shop that is totaly untrue if you have a problem away from base most engineering companys would try to help if they can but you can't expect them to to drop the urgent work on a regular customers aircraft for someone who has just walked in the door.
rant over !!

[White Bear]

An A&P mechanic’s making ‘only’ 40 pounds an hour…..in the GA market in the States he’d be lucky to make that many dollars.

How come you poor blighters are still paying so much for parts made in the U.S.?

The exchange rate is now almost 2 dollars for 1 pound, but it seems to me that the price is still the same number, except in England its pounds, whereas in the U.S. its Dollars, same at was when the rate was 1:1.60

There is something seriously wrong going on in England.

[A and C]

Lets start with 17.5% VAT on the total cost of the parts including the cost of transport and the mandatory 8130-3.
The A & P won't get £40/hour that is the rate that the shop will charge and the A & P is likely to be making about £14-18/hour.
The $ rate has started to help but the real problem is the local and national goverment taxes, fuel has a tax called "duty" and then on top of the fuel cost+duty they put 17.5 % VAT so 100LL costs about $8/USG.
The cost of living numbers are about the same......... it's just the $ is worth half as much!

EASA is making it mandatory for all aircraft maintenance to be done by "approved" companys so the day of the indipendent A & P are numbered.

(American English used for the benifit of White bear)

[White Bear]

Humm, quite a problem A and C.
Have you thought about this? :rolleyes:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=255429
By the way “indipendent” is not very good American English.
Regards,
White Bear.

[flyingphil1]

Humm, quite a problem A and C.
Have you thought about this? :rolleyes:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=255429
By the way “indipendent” is not very good American English.
Regards,
White Bear.

Its only the maths "engineer's" get right or "fitters" to be more accurate we need more indpiendent {sic} tool makers ...

[AC-DC]

The Robin now lives in a hangar, very expensive and far away ..the engine suffered a miriad of problems .. no doubt the owner will contribute soon ... the 150 just an expensive annual all the others were about 2.5k but new mags, prop overhaul and 4 cylinders still made it expensive:\
I hope that you still have some change to buy a POH for the aircraft.
;)
1st. o/h @ 2740h
75h later a cam fail as well as 2 cyl. (valves & rings) and 2 lifters
Engine re-o/h
91h later, while flying, a tooth broke of the gear that connects the crankshaft to the camshaft and the left mag.
On top I had to do the car's head gasket, had 5 car accidents and the conservatory that was started in July is still not finished because they had to build the walls 5 times, the glass panels twice, rain leaked and all had to be dried, the floor is too high and not level, ordered hard wood and got chip wood and now they have to re-plaster part of it because...it is not level.
Other then this life is great:ok:

[A and C]

The first thing I have to ask is who did the overhaul ?

The second question is how much did you pay for the first overhaul?

Now I might guess the answer to question one is a metal that is liquid at room temp.

And the answer to question two is about £6000+VAT

Do I win the prize ?

[AC-DC]

The first thing I have to ask is who did the overhaul ?
The second question is how much did you pay for the first overhaul?
Now I might guess the answer to question one is a metal that is liquid at room temp.
And the answer to question two is about £6000+VAT
Do I win the prize ?
Oh no my friend, you lost both. Do you want a second try or the answers?:)
The o/h was done by a very reputable shop in the US and did cost ~ £13k due to very good $/£ rate. As many other bits were replaced or o/h when the engine was away including fire wall re-cover, engine mount X ray and re-spray, new exhaust system new edm-700 etc. the total bill was north of £20k.

[A and C]

Just shows that It is not always the "usual suspects" that have problems!

£13K sounds a little on the high side for a non-factory O/H but not if the engine core items could not be used (I take it that it is a Lycoming o-360).

There is only one non-factory engine overhaul company that I would use in the USA as most of them will walk away from a problem child safe in the knowlage that you are the other side of the Atlantic and unlikely to come knocking on the door.

With the £/$ rate as it is at the moment a factory overhaul looks like a very good deal

[AC-DC]

Not your day A&C ;)

The engine is an IO-540. When it was o/h we fitted all new ECI Titan cyl. new lifters, new camshaft, new lightweight B&C starter and new vacuum pump, new mags. The fuel servo and fuel pump were o/h, the core parts were ok. In addition the engine was internally balanced and the cyl. were flow matched. If I remember correctly the lot was ~ $23-24k. The o/h shop was not one of the 2 that you think of but a shop in FL that has a very good reputation inside the USA and came second in a review of Aviation Consumer. This shop looked after me, on both occasions they paid for the shipping back to the US, re-o/h the engine free of charge with all new components (i.e cyl. lifters, camshaft) and paid for removal/installation of the engine (under warranty after first failure). This time they don't want to pay for the removal/installation but I am going to fight it as I also want another year of warranty as out of the 2 years that I had the engine was off for nearly a year. Time will tell.

[A and C]

The price for an IO-540 is very good but it is very unusual for overhaul shops in the USA to pick up the shipping costs I guess that I could add this shop to the very small list of overhaul shops that I would use in the USA.
The problem that you have is the time that it has taken to get the aircraft sorted and flying the engine across the Atlantic twice can't of helped with the downtime.

Some one above did hint that the engine was for a Robin hence the O-360 comment.

[AC-DC]

Yes, the down time is a problem and customs can be a pain if the paper work is incorrect.
If you want to use this shop and if you can live with the down time in case of a problem I would recommend them. I had bad luck and I might have suffered financially but they were honest and did not muck me arround. If I will ever have to o/h another engine I will think very hard where to send it but they will be one of the options.

Either P.M me your email and I will send you something to read or let me know when you are next at Elstree and I will try to meet you.