"Preferred Seats"

[ExSimGuy]

A question from a SLF (with some varied aviation background)

Just been checking loads on an airline's web site, who show seat plans, and I see that there are "preferred seats" (i.e. the emergency exit rows) marked and labelled "Preferred seats are for our (frequent flier club) passengers and can be booked if you are a member of our (frequent flier) club"

This has never been my understanding of the requirement for "exit row" pax - I always thought that the requirement was something to do with fitness to operate and open the windows!

Scenario:-
You board the aircraft and find that a couple of pax in the exit row are obviously not suitable, for one reason or another.
Do you move them? Even though they are frequent fliers (maybe "gold") with your airline, who insist that, as Gold Fliers they booked those seats and don't want to move? Maybe they refuse to move?

Scares me - I have seen pax in the exit rows who are definitely not appropriate (I do have sympathy for a mother with baby on her lap, but she's not someone I'd want to rely on the get the window open quickly!)

Interested to hear what CC here think

(serious question - not trolling)

[sinala1]

I can't speak for other airlines, but with my airline you cannot pre-book or pre-reserve exit row seating without being made aware of the requirements of sitting in those seats - and your suitability to sit there is checked by staff upon arrival at the airport (you cannot self-check-in - it must be done by a check-in agent). In the event that, for some reason or another, an unsuitable person has been seated in those rows (it does happen sometimes :bored: ) they must be reseated before the doors are closed - I wont close the final door (I am a Cabin Supervisor) until I am satisfied that pax seated in exit rows are suitable - I am generally informed of any inconsistencies by the crew allocated to provide the specialised briefing to those pax.

[vodkaholic]

with the airline i work for, the passengers can pay extra for the exit row seats at the timeof booking their holiday. this can be done online also. however, every passenger who has paid or is allocated an exit row seat has to agree that they are 14+ years of age and physically and mentally able. it has happened in the past where people have paid for these seats and they are not physically or mentally able. they will be moved. it does not matter how much they have paid for the seats, they will not sit there. and they won't get a refund either.

[I Just Want To Fly]

At my pervious airline, we had a free seating policy, and I often had problems with non ABPs (Able Bodied Passenger) trying to occupy them. particularly cause our seat pitch was so small, there were some pax who simply couldn't fit comfortably in a normal seat. The key to dealing with this problem, is being vigilant, and using a bit of tact.

I only ever ended up having a real problem once, when a particularly large and tall lady refused to sit anywhere else. Despite all my attempts at being nice, she still refused, and I ended up having to be quite assertive, which probably came across as rude. I spoke fairly loudly explaining that by law she wasn't allowed to sit there, and that if she didn't move right now, it would delay the aircraft. If we missed our slot, we would then be delayed up to a further hour, and that it wasn't very fair on the other passengers to be delayed over this kind of situation.

I'm still only fairly new to flying, so would appreciate more senior pruners giving suggestions on how i could have dealt with the situation better. I tried to be nice, but it just didn't work. I did feel quite bad about it afterwards though.

[cckat]

With my old airline it was easier, you couldn't "pre-request" these seats, and we only ever had to move one guy, who needed an extention belt. He was good about it though, which was lucky - that kind of situation can be mortifying for both the passenger and the crew member.

I can't say how I would have handled it if he refused to move, after we asked and pointed out the rules to him, I think you probably did the right thing, but explaining that the flight was going to be delayed - no one really wants to be THE ONE on the plane that caused it to be late, I'm sure!

[flyblue]

ExSimGuy,

I would definitely move them, even if they were Royal Platinum Diamond Encrusted frequent Flyers. If you get to explain why in a nice way, people aren't usually too difficult about it. If someone really refused to move, we would have to advise them that the flight would have to be delayed until they have moved (or had to be removed from the flight if they really refused any other alternative). But im my career it never happened that we had to get to this stage.

[banewboi]

well i've been flying for a whie now and really it is ground handlers responsibility to ensure the a/c is loaded correctly, if this isn't the case it is often left to us as they don't have to deal with it then.

in addition the requirement for abp's to sit in rows is only for landing and t/off, therefore unsuitable's are permitted to occupy the seats during the cruise.

a technique i have sometimes employed for those of a particularly difficult disposition is normally to ask the fittest young man travelling with his mates (boys traveeling with girls are sometimes willing to with a sly wink;) ;) ), offer him a free drink (the bar never used to add up anyway before i left charter) or first service and ask him to sit there for take off and landing and swap for the cruise. it normally worked and a flutter of my big brown lashes normally helped!!!

[mad_jock]

well i've been flying for a whie now and really it is ground handlers responsibility to ensure the a/c is loaded correctly

Bollocks its is the Captains responsibility. There isn't a single thing on that aircraft that isn't thier responsibility. If they delegate to you as a trained crew member you can't pass it to someone else. You give it back to them and then they give it back out again.

I would check your "books" ABP's are specified for emergency exit seats. There is no cravat I have seen in the books that states those seats stop being emergency exit seats in the cruise.

Have a chat with the the front office and see if they are happy with you doing what you are doing. And don't be suprised when they say no. If I found out that it was a regular occurance I would submit a no names and flight numbers ASR to put a stop to it.

[Dogs_ears_up]

Bollocks its is the Captains responsibility. There isn't a single thing on that aircraft that isn't thier responsibility.

Quite right MJ - however I have seen the point expressed with more tact and diplomacy.

Seats on board may be allocated or sold to various people by airline marketing departments, check-in agents or even by passengers themselves on the web - it really doesn't mstter who or how. The point is that once the passenger is on-board, it is the specific job of the Cabin Crew (as delegated by the Commander, whose ultimate responsibility it is) to determine the suitability of those sitting in the exit row seats and to re-seat if necessary.

Sometimes, a re-seat for take-off and landing only is an appropriate action. Since you ask MJ, I have actually taken the time to check with the Pilots, and our own Safety department, and there has been no issue. There appears to be no specific restriction on the practise, but I would imagine that the question is one of interpretation (as so often) and therefore open to different views. Certainly, as Cabin Crew, my desire is to adhere to the regulations and the specific requirements of my Commander, so if you, MJ, instruct me not to make such changes, then that's what happens: Possibly the submission of an ASR is one way to seek clarity, although it seems a rather heavy-handed method?

[mad_jock]

Point taken about being rude. And good on you for bum covering, if its in writing that the company allows it, you do it. If its not in writing you are still out on a limb if anything goes wrong.

Well a no names no flight numbers ASR is to highlight a practise to the training deptment with nobody in the firing line for a bollocking. It makes the company make a formal declaration on policy. I suppose it all depends on how the ASR system works in your company. My types cabin book states ABP seats and thats it. And the ASR wouldn't be witched hunted, it would go to the powers that be and either the book changed or FCI and CCI issued to inform everone what the policy is. I can't really think of any matter that needs clarity where a ASR would be heavy handed. Maybe FC are just more used to using it day to day. Its all bum covering.

My reason for saying no is that you never know when you will need the ABP's in the seats. I know there is a very very very tiny chance of something happening but you never know when its going to happen. The risk to everyone in the back trying to move someone with reduced mobility from one seat to another with the deck at 25 degrees nose down and turning. Sods law states that all the tolleys will be out as well, is to me unexceptable as it is easly negated by not putting them in the seat.

Then the customer might refuse to move as the aircraft attitude is well outside the normal experenced as pax. Then what are you going to do to shift a 20 stone 6'4" bloke with a gammy leg and a white knuckle death grip on the arm rest. Thats proberly an easy one. A 10 stone granny who hates flying and has just had a heart attack with said death grip on the arm rests. All this when you have just stowed all the trolleys, dealing with the rest of the pax, tens mins to landing on the PA, with the ever present glow of a uncontained engine fire out the window. I suppose if you were lucky it would be on the side they were sat at and you could leave them there.

I would be interested to hear a CC point of view on this. If I am being overdramatic and it really isn't a problem I am quite willing to revise my views.

[mad_jock]

Just to add I done abit of tinternet search and trolled up these.

http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?categoryid=3&pagetype=90&pageid=1344
http://www.dptac.gov.uk/pubs/seatrestrict/

The following categories of passengers are among those who should not be allocated to, or directed to, seats which permit direct access to emergency exits :
Passengers suffering from obvious physical, or mental handicap to the extent that they would have difficulty in moving quickly if asked to do so.
Passengers who are either substantially blind or substantially deaf to the extent that they might not readily assimilate printed or verbal instructions given.
Passengers who because of age or sickness are so frail that they have difficult in moving quickly.
Passengers who are so obese that they would have difficulty in moving quickly or reaching and passing through the adjacent emergency exit.
Children (whether accompanied or not) and infants.
Deportees or prisoners in custody.
Passengers with animals.


Which sort of rules it out for G reg aircraft. But if the Captain is happy to carry the can, you go for it ;)

[jennihopkins]

i would also say that somebody who speaks no english is not a suitable ABP, as they wouldnt be able to understand the briefing

[Jump Complete]

Hi, I'm a non-airline comercial pilot. Traveling as a pax on Ryanair last month, I got an emergency exit seat. The flight was fairly full (due to the fog just before xmas.) The CC had to deal with several passengers who were non able-bodied or with young kids etc trying to get in the row. Dealt with them very well, I thought but a couple of the pax took it in bad grace.
I understand the need for young families to be together, though. Anyone working for a operater that doesn't assign seats, how do you deal with families that can't sit together due to rows already being partly taken?