Army Scrooge Spirit... (just a little flash..)

[PPRuNeUser0211]

.... and only because I'm tired and grumpy!

Saw an article on page 2 of (what I assume was) today's telegraph about an Infanteer in Basra having a rant about the RAF "Dressing Pilots up as Santa", having a christmas party whilst the army were "all out on the dangerous streets" and a quote from him saying "they're [the RAF] just civilians in uniform".

Anyone find a link to said article? Things that really grip my.....

We've got enough problems without trying to knife each other in the back, and the infanteer in question really came across as a proper scrooge (from my folks point of view) who was just grumpy that he couldn't join in! I realise that this is (probably) not the case and I'm sure he's more tired and stressed than I am, and certainly not happy about being away from his loved ones getting shot at during crimbo, but really... to say things like that to a journo on the record... someone needs to have a word...

<Rant off>

Be safe guys, be it in a party mood or not...

[Fg Off Max Stout]

Whilst the mean streets of Bazbados, Maysan and more so Helmann's, are undeniably bandit country (great respect to the infantry), tooling round in military aircraft in The Rak or The Stan is no bed of roses either. What a shame that this soldier cannot appreciate that his light blue brothers-in-arms, particularly SH, operate in the face of great danger, as the recent DFCs testify. Every bugger has an AK, hot LZs are thick with HMG and RPG, the place is awash with SAM-7s and you're sitting in a massive, noisy high-value-asset. For a squaddie to voice such opinions would be dissappointing, for an officer, appalling but not unprecedented. I wonder if he will still view the RAF as civvies in uniform when he takes a round in the butt and gets a Vortex/Ascot casevac to Blighty?

There is no shame in having parties or other jollities in theatre when circumstances permit. Unfortunately, the mentality of certain elements of the army is particularly dour and an absolute morale vacuum. As time went on in Iraq I observed the number of REMFs increasing, army bureaucracy and bullsh1t increasing, fun and morale decreasing. There was nothing like cracking a beer at the Camel's Toe after a day's tasking in 50C heat - unfortunately the RSMs seem to prefer dets to be dry, dull and miserable.

[stillin1]

Saw the same and thought "what a tw@t". An outburst of the green-eyed-monster methinks, that or someone turned his maggot around and he got out of the wrong side!. Hope he got / will get a nice xmas lunch / dinner too this year to cheer him up a tad!:ok: If it is as good as last years was he will have little to whinge about.
Well done guys for the normal RAF attempt to make things better in the sandy ****e-hole. So long as the "job" is getting done there is no reason to practice bleed just to stop a stroppy squaddie throwing his gob about:mad:
As for the "We've got enough problems without trying to knife each other in the back" comment, too true pba.:confused: :=

[HEDP]

Must admit I do find it a tad rich that the RAF can bring their dets all this Xmas spirit while the other half crashes and burns (MPA thread).

Still at least whenever an outsider casts a stone in the water the light blue close ranks and all is well in the world,

Regards

[Brain Potter]

HEDP - Must admit I don't follow your logic.

1. A (cheap) charter aircraft organized by DTMA cannot get to MPA due breakdown/fog.

2. The already stretched RAF Tristar Sqn is asked to rescue the service and tries it's best to do so.

3. A good proportion of the FI garrison waiting to get home are RAF personnel.

And you say:

I do find it a tad rich that the RAF can bring their dets all this Xmas spirit while the other half crashes and burns

- based on the fact that some RAF personnel (who have absolutely nothing to do with the South Atlantic airbridge) are making the effort to have a "celebration" of sorts at Basra.

I know the RAF transport service often disappoints , but I think you are looking for fault where none exists.

Merry Chrimbo. :)

[Grimweasel]

Oh dear, sour grapes, poor doodums. Like it wasn't your choice at the careers office??
If you feel that way, poor soldier, then do something about it and implement the same in the Army, instead of bleating about it in the Papers. K@ob!

[L1A2 discharged]

Saw the article too, immediate thought was - do better at school and join the RAF.

Conversely as is said above, organise something similar for your crew.

It is easy to be uncomfortable.

[Ken Scott]

Saw the article myself in the Telegraph this morning, & frankly couldn't believe that anyone would be that much of a Christmas killjoy. Having spent Christmas in the sandpit I know tasking gets a bit low, & so there's an opportunity to actually enjoy Christmas. Does said army officer expect that RAF personnel not working during lunch on 25th should all be miserable because some of the green brethen have to walk the mean streets of Basrah? I'm sure that ATC in the tower, RAF Regt on force protection, fireman etc will all be working too. And will ALL the army be on the streets? I expect some will be in the mess pulling a cracker.
Frankly the man's a t**t, or a misquoted one.

[Two's in]

It has always been the same. Whenever I saw RAF personnel in swanky hotels, my goal was always to try and get my guys into those hotels, not try to get everyone into 2-man tents in the mud. As the famous quote goes, "any idiot can be uncomfortable". In this case trying to introduce a touch of Christmas Spirit definitely comes under the "providing comfort" category and this person's chain of command are either incredibly poor at the welfare and morale aspects of their job, or this is some terminally miserable bastard who needs euthanising - didn't see it so can't yet decide. Maybe he just had a letter from his wife saying she wasn't running off with another bloke.

[PPRuNeUser0211]

HEDP - would suggest that perhaps nothing is more important that the morale of those in theatre anyhow? Albeit it's a sorry state of affairs about the guys coming back north (who have almost certainly done their time in the 'pit as well), making life as normal as possible for the guys (generic term meant to cover gals as well) in the two way range is a major priority!

As for closing ranks, before you cast aspersions, read the article... The guy comes across as a scrooge and an egit of the highest order. Fully aware he's probably been massively mis-quoted as sis the way with the journos nowadays, but really! Have no issue with people condemming the state of affairs with regards SH, the airbridge or having to many shiny toys and not enough lifting green things, but to condemn fellow professional warfighters as "civilians in uniform" just because they can get their ducks in a row and have a merry crimbo is a bit beyond the pale (pail? who can tell)

Be safe all, merry christmas!

[AdanaKebab]

Perhaps he should re-read his Principles of War. I believe 'Morale' is right up there.

Humour is key to any military operation!

[Beeayeate]

Could it be just a bit of banter overheard by some journo and then sensationalised to make a story for xmas?

:E

[Jackonicko]

Yeah, yeah. Blame the journo.

[Beeayeate]

Yeah, yeah. Blame the journo.
The story appeared in a newspaper, yes?

.

[PPRuNeUser0211]

Media spin and all, but had a certain sort of ring to it! maybe it's a plot by the journos to drive a wedge, but the telegraph has been fairly pro military of late. maybe they're only pro army..

[Archimedes]

As a minor corrective - From the Sunday Times (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2517947,00.html), demonstrating that the RAF has indeed abandoned all notions of doing anything useful and is concentrating only upon dressing up as Santa. Or not...

[brit bus driver]

I do hope the chap was not wearing a Santa hat over his headset, or that mince pies were on board! Moreover, at no time should cheap plug in Xmas trees adorn the flight deck of one of Her Majesty's aircraft; nor should antlers be seen atop the skipper's noggin. However do these chaps hope to get the job done with such tomfoolery going on......:=

[Vage Rot]

I do hope the chap was not wearing a Santa hat over his headset, or that mince pies were on board! Moreover, at no time should cheap plug in Xmas trees adorn the flight deck of one of Her Majesty's aircraft; nor should antlers be seen atop the skipper's noggin. However do these chaps hope to get the job done with such tomfoolery going on......:=

Here Here!!:D

[Talking Radalt]

Must admit I do find it a tad rich that the RAF can bring their dets all this Xmas spirit while the other half crashes and burns (MPA thread).


How, exactly, does being deliberately dour in Basrah help the Falklands air bridge situtation? :confused:
I trust every Army sangar, ops room, mess tent and vehicle is devoid of any combat indicators of Crimble? :hmm:
Army...Be Miserable.

[HEDP]

I think I didn't quite get my point across in the way I had intended so........

Lets assume that the MOD website has an article about an RAF station that has loaded one of Her Majesties planes with all things nice for RAF Lyneham personnel and transported it by special delivery to RAF Lynehams finest personnel.

Hurrah for the RAF you might say (and I can see that if you have the toys you might play with them from time to time.......)

Meanwhile, that leaves many a young squaddie and the like with families desperate to send parcels at Christmas but limited to a 2 Kg parcel and having all sorts of problems getting them through the post office etc etc......

My issue is not with who did what for whom but the lack of understanding of the young squaddies perception of what has happened. My issue is with the various derogatory names this individual has been called on an anonymous website without a thought for how something may appear to someone else.

Yes, I have been the bringer of good cheer but generally it was done for the good of all and not for the few who have the capability to help themselves........

NB:- This is not a gripe from me, merely an attempt to bring some understanding from the other side of the fence

Happy Xmas one and all

[PPRuNeUser0211]

HEDP - I would suspect that lyneham's finest have the nouse to look beyond their own, and make an effort to make everyone at basrah (or wherever they may end up) feel a little bit more cheery.

As I mentioned earlier, can understand this chaps grumpiness about being somewhere hot sunny and dangerous for crimbo, but the issue is the insulting of his brothers in arms (witness wokka DFCs, mostly earned by putting their lives on the line to get someone out of a sticky situation, the same way that most medals in the army are earned) and the issue of said insult, not on a relatively benign internet forum, which provides a good way to vent and would have been by and large unnoticed by the outside world, but instead talking to a journo for a national newspaper! That is where the issue lies. And I'm also not blind to the fact that what he said might have been mis-quoted, taken out of context etc, but that's why we have media ops trained personnel, and as an officer he should know well enough to watch his words if his intent is not to cause a scene

[Aeronut]

Yeah, yeah. Blame the journo.

I'm starting to think that this journo actually believes that accurate responsible reporting is the norm!

:eek:

[Vage Rot]

Lets assume that the MOD website has an article about an RAF station that has loaded one of Her Majesties planes with all things nice for RAF Lyneham personnel and transported it by special delivery to RAF Lynehams finest personnel.

Of course, the Army chaps were completely surprised that Christmas was due to fall on the 25th December this year and, moreover, that their deployment from, lets say, October to April encompassed said festive season. That would explain why they never got off their pongo ars4s and loaded any jovial kit when they deployed.:ugh:

Special delivery my left nadger!:=

Perhaps the headline should have read:-

"Squaddie Pi55ed off because he didn't think ahead!"

Last time I was out there over Crimbo the whole crew took outfits with them. Maybe that's why we are aircrew - a small amount common sense!

Happy Crimbo, Pongos, Fisheads and us fine Crab chaps!:)

[Fg Off Max Stout]

Having not seen the Torygraph article but from the previous posts it appears that the complainant was indeed an officer. He should bl--dy well know better than to air his personal grievances about the RAF in the national press, but he joins a long list of, sometimes senior, army officers who have done just that. Tim Collins proved publicly that you can reach senior army ranks without having the first clue about air power and the operation of aircraft when he proposed abolishing the RAF. His pilot-to-aircraft-to-mechanic ratios might have worked in the Royal Flying Corps but not on a Typhoon, Chinny or indeed AH.

HEDP, as a member of the master race, hopefully you can see over the green army's 'if it ain't raining it ain't training' mentality. If life can be made a little more comfortable and enjoyable on ops, that's a good thing not a bad thing. Any unit, army or RAF, (not just the Herc boys) that get their sh1t on one sock, can send out all the welfare/ents supplies they want through the normal air movements channels. Families can use the parcel service to their heart's content, just as mine did. There is NO RAF exclusive system at work here.

Like I said in my previous post, if the guy was a squaddie I would be disappointed by his comments. Since it appears that he is a hofficer he should pull his thumb out of his arse and organize some ents for his lads rather than just dripping when he sees others making their dets a little bit enjoyable. (might I suggest Max Power and Razzle for the lads, Country Life and Defence Recognition Journal for the wuperts). I can understand this chap's perception of and reaction to events perfectly and it sounds like he really is a knob.

[HEDP]

I do take exception to being commented on as the 'master race', how about you keep your chinless, pretentious comments confined to your own ego! Some of us have a modicum of humility to rely on,

HEDP

[Talking Radalt]

I do take exception to being commented on as the 'master race',

OK, sorry, but is "Wupert" or "Wodney" still ok? :}

[Fg Off Max Stout]

No offence intended, just reacting to the original comments which I consider to be quite simply wrong. You do realise that by master-race I am referring to aircrew (as you assert to be in your profile) rather than commissioned officer (which your aggressive reaction implies you are not)? Therefore, I hoped that as aircrew you might be more inclined to the RAF's effort to enjoy dets rather than certain army units' efforts to make them miserable. Like I said at the beginning I hold the British Army in high regard and have particular respect for the infantry on our current ops. AH are also doing a fine job looking after SH who are looking after infantry.

I am not the type to publicly sh1t sling a) because it's as inappropriate as the original newspaper comments and b) because I actually have a great respect for the British Army. You clearly think that the reported comments are appropriate and that life should be deadly serious at all times. I disagree on both counts so let's just leave it at that. I shall enjoy my Christmas, be with people I like, have a laugh, eat a good meal. Hell, I might even put a paper hat on my head. If you prefer to dig a shell scrape in the garden, get drizzled on, eat anal blockage biscuits and bleat about everyone else, good luck to you.

We're all on the same side. Merry Christmas.:ok:

[Vage Rot]

:D

Well said old fruit! Now pass the port and cheese to uncle Santa!

[PPRuNeUser0211]

Port? Have we not moved to the new winter variety of pimms???

[Almost_done]

Port? Have we not moved to the new winter variety of pimms???
Heathen...................the only time to drink Pimms is when watching fit young girls playing tennis at a certain venue in greater London.:}

[PPRuNeUser0211]

Would that be whilst "on duty" or not?

[stillin1]

Vage Rot

The "old fruit" comment is a tad presumptious! He might not be:E

[Fg Off Max Stout]

I can take 'old fruit', 'old bean', 'old boy' etc but not so keen on 'chinless', 'pretentious' and 'egotistical'. That's racist, dude!
Still, made me chuckle.

[Almost_done]

Would that be whilst "on duty" or not?
Ah, you'd never catch me doing such a heinous act 'on duty'. :}

[mutleyfour]

Its simple:

Squaddies moan....a lot!

Usually its the best way to get rid of any tension borne during a patrol.

I know this is of no real satisfaction to your once again dissed Force, but trust me the vast majority of those presently deployed will moan about you one minute but by God soon give you the praise that you deserve in another. Unfortunately the press were involved with this little rant and I only hope the indvidual concerned has got his satisfaction from it and moves onto something else.

We "Pongoes" on here do not deserve the endless taunting about eductaion and such piffle every time somebody says something without thinking of its consequences. Yes I am a soldier just as he, but please just call the chap a tw*t and move on. We are all of us involved in a common theme and thats things that go up tiddly up up as well as down tiddly down down, so please let us do it with the same grace as our forefathers.


Happy Christmas one & all.

Muttley Out!

[PPRuNeUser0211]

well said mutley!

[Mmmmnice]

bin there - done that - going there again, and again, and again......
If the plan goes as fragged I'll be there next crimbo, in my Santa outfit (or possibly an elf)
As has been already said - any fool can be uncomfortable/unhappy etc - and why not break out of the 'equal pain/misery for all' approach that the brit mil seems so good at.....it wouldn't help anyone if a non-infanteer runs down the road to get shot at, just to demonstrate a misplaced sense of solidarity. And can I add my reminder that day to day it's the light blue that deliver them to do their job and fish them out sooner or later depending on whether it goes to plan or the wheels come off. I'd much rather not have to go out to pick up any more P1s......but if I do, I'll try not to ponce around like a 'civvy in uniform'

[Pontius Navigator]

I seem to remember some time ago that a sort of army unit :) dared to have a formal dinner, during the war, and the wrong side of the line.

Now that presumably was OK and not being uncomfortable.

I think similar accusations were made against the RM in Stan once they took over.

As someone said earlier any fool can be uncomfortable.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/foodmonthly/story/0,,1637618,00.html

Martin Bell has reported for the BBC from over 80 countries and was wounded covering the war in Sarajevo

There is a saying in the army that any fool can be uncomfortable. In the same way, any fool can go hungry. The same applies to war reporters. The wise war-zone hack will travel with a store of basic supplies to be consumed, or traded, in an emergency - not only corned beef and chocolate bars, but whisky (usually Ballantine's) and cigarettes (usually Marlboro) which work wonders as bargaining chips at road blocks. For the rest, it's a matter of following local custom and living off the land.