Trying To Get Home

[bayete]

Anybody got any news about what is happening in order to get us back from MPA?
The rumour control down here is terrible so I thought that pprune might be able to help!
Cheers


Edited because written under the influence of livers in xmas fancy dress party which was excellent by the way.

[BEagle]

Current Brize TAF is:

EGVN 221031Z 221212 VRB02KT 0300 FZFG PROB30 TEMPO 1216 0800 FG BKN002 PROB30 TEMPO 0912 1500 BR BKN003

The BBC have (literally) just said that tomorrow is looking better from mid-day onwards....

I hope that you can escape from MPA soon - best wishes to you all.

Latest Brize TAF:

EGVN 221331Z 221515 VRB02KT 0300 FZFG VV/// PROB30 TEMPO 0915 1500 BR BKN003

Prestwick looks OK though.

[Lord Elpus]

Heard that 2Gp trying to get a timmy down there asap, however, said jet isnt at brize and is in the wrong config for pax (frt role, no seats)!

Obviously, the jet needs to get to Brize to get re-roled before it can make it southbound.

Severe lack of noise over the last few days would indicate that jets/crews etc are scattered everywhere, with the ensuing carnage that produces.

The rumour I've heard is that our friends in the Muppett world have yet again dinked the 747 at MPA? Any truth in this???????

Cheers!

[Razor61]

Out of Manchester it is then....it is filling up with mil types at the moment.

[HercErk]

No the Movers at MPA have not Dinked the 747 as it is not even here.
Just been tannoyed Down Here 747 Still Fooked next update 1000 FI time tomorrow.

Rumours are rife about a timmy but that'll never happen although I have heard the disscussions are in progress to hitch a lift with santa when he passes throught this way.

Ah well sh1t happens I'll be home soon enough

[November4]

The rumour I've heard is that our friends in the Muppett world have yet again dinked the 747 at MPA? Any truth in this???????

Cheers!

The rumour I have heard is that the Muppett world are responsible for the fog!! :mad:

[Cockney Geezer]

Yep, I've just heard Timmy is going to save the day. Though keep it under your hats, as soon as the muppets find out about this plan, they'll be aiming their steps at the Tristar's wings/doors/pitots!

[bayete]

231600z MAN ASI 240200z
241600z ASI MPN242359z
251400z MPN ASI 252130z
261130z ASI BZZ 262000z
So its Xmas in the terminal at MPA... nice.
But a big thanks to all the people who will have to do extra work over the period getting everyone home.
Big up the Timmy crew who are ruining their Christmas in order to get others back soonest.
Anybody know why a civvycharter could not be found?

[L J R]

Yes, have to agree Bayette, it is the 'little' things and tasks that are really appreciated by those who utilise them, but go unnoticed.

[Pstrop]

As one of those coming to get you, thanks for your thoughtful comments Bayete. We have taken a lot of stick this year for delays and cancellations beyond our contol, but as usual its the man on the coal face who gets it in the neck. Its nice to know that someone appreciates our efforts. See you on Christmas Day YO HO HO. Thanks for my itinerary now off to pack

[Taxi.Idge]

You will not ever hear me repeat this but well done Timmy and the boys. However, I have to ask, 'what the F##K is going on?'. What other company would fork out millions on a contract, then, when the beneficiary to the millions cocks up and buggers their jet, the onus to get the job done falls back on to the one paying out the money??

[Phil Terfull]

Rumour has that the muppets have driven some equipment in to the side of the 747 at Brize.........again!

[HercErk]

As one of those coming to get you, thanks for your thoughtful comments Bayete. We have taken a lot of stick this year for delays and cancellations beyond our contol, but as usual its the man on the coal face who gets it in the neck. Its nice to know that someone appreciates our efforts. See you on Christmas Day YO HO HO. Thanks for my itinerary now off to pack

As one of those you are coming to Get, Can I say Many Many thanks.
Also thanks to all those who are being Messed around to load, re-role, service, unload, etc.

Mind you Xmas Day in Azzi Where can you see the Turtles?

Rumours Down Here in FI are a nose wheel steering problem Either on taxi or As it began to trundle down the runway (depending on who you talk to) Then further to that when Part arrives Its the wrong one or mod state. Again all rumours.

[Taxi.Idge]

Rumour has that the muppets have driven some equipment in to the side of the 747 at Brize.........again!

Not sure that is true, we were holding over Brize yesterday trying to get in through the fog but were held off when the R/W went BLACK due to the 747 undercarraige being busted on the threshold??

[The Helpful Stacker]

That rumour has already been circulated and deemed false, oh course don't let me stand in the way of some muppet bashing.:rolleyes:

(Aimed at Phil Terfull BTW)

[Baskitt Kase]

>Rumour has that the muppets have driven some equipment in to the side of the 747 at Brize.........again!

>That rumour has already been circulated and deemed false...

Technically true...but what about asking if the aircraft was moved somehow in to the movs equipment instead?

[D-IFF_ident]

Sounds like 2' 6" are doing a grand job so close to the 'holidays'. In another part of the world they are dragging a jet with limited fuel capacity around to take some mates back home.

Unfortunately, however, they may need some crew rest before they fly home. Good news, however again, is that OC mates has kindly offered his pilots to fly Timmy so the crew can all jump in the back and dead-head.

"Ascot Ops on the line for you sir..."

[Scribbly dee]

A friend of mine trying to indulge down to MPA got kicked off this morning. Had been at BZN for 2 days with his family and gave up this morning. Rumour has it that first it was the fog then the pallets came from Heathrow all the wrong size and had to be stripped down and rebuilt then the nose wheel went belly up then one of the civvy MT drivers realised it is a couple of months since the 747 had been damaged and dinked the side of it with the steps:eek:. You couldn't make a story like that up. Rumour also has it that something (Santa/747/Tristar/Magic Carpet/ship) will be on its way tomorrow sometime but will have to night stop in ASI and MPA and will be back in blighty in time for a cold turkey sandwich some time around the 27 Dec.

My mate tells me that they were treated reasonably well at BZN (probably because the Gateway is shut so they stayed in a hotel where they actually care about the guests) but were fed the usual mushroom diet of information. He also tells me that there were loads of kids there trying to get to see their parents at MPA and families and paying passengers none of whom were too happy with the situation or the treatment:{.

Unfortunately this is not an isolated incident not a month goes by without the airbridge going u/s a few times or there is no mail for a couple of flights or no fruit and veg. Most of the explanations for these incidents are rubbish and make the Keystone Cops look professional. But everything must be OK in the South Atlantic, same as elsewhere, because I read it the RAF News last week. OC Ops at BZN said so.........!!

Once again cheers to the boys who are on their way it might screw up their Christmas but it will make a whole load of other people happy.:ok:

[Pstrop]

Just about to leave home to get transport to Manchester - interested to know Scribble Dee when and how you heard that the crew wouldn't be back in Blightly till the 27th?

[Fox_4]

Merry Christmas to all at MPA

Tremblers boys trying to get home today - Gutted for you!

My fave quote on the 1435 Flt corridoor.

"Send this place back to the sea"

Probably couldnt happen soon enough for you boys.

:ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

[bayete]

Is the Tristar airborn yet?
No news this end.

[steve platt]

Tristar airbourne from manchester to mount pleasant in falklands approx 2 hrs ago. Hope ure all hm for xmas. Best wishes to all our forces staff from raf manchester.

[fantaman]

Merry Crimbo to all you guys and gals down in the South Atlantic!

Well done you boys who are giving up your own crimbo to help others get home to see their families :D

Roll on the A330/FSTA/MRTT or whatever they are calling it these days :E

[brit bus driver]

Roll on the A330/FSTA/MRTT or whatever they are calling it these days
And that would help.....how? Let's not turn this into a TriStar bashing thread; they are, after all, stepping up to the plate where the charter has failed.

[Bin-Oolie]

. . . And that would help.....how? Let's not turn this into a TriStar bashing thread; they are, after all, stepping up to the plate where the charter has failed.

Well it's a bit thick to blame the charter for all of this. Now we all know that this is a rumour network and we can expect rumours to fly thick and fast when this sort of thing unfortunately happens. But sufficient time has passed to now look and see the REAL reason that the 747 airbridge didn't make it to ASI / MPA.

And the REAL reason / blame doesn't lay with the Charter.

The charter had a tech problem ( nws ) which was very fixable. The crew were taking min rest whilst the required part ( nws cable ) was sourced and all was looking well . . albeit with a delay. The 747 was safely parked on the Apron at the customer's home base, RAF Brize Norton.

Now the CUSTOMER enters the arena and the CUSTOMER damages the charter's 747 by closing the cargo door when the loader was NOT CLEAR.
This is not Rumour. This is what ACTUALLY happened.

The cargo door was seriously damaged and this was down to the Customer and not the Charter.

Of course it was a very unfortunate accident (they do happen in life) and it was at a very unpopular time and lots of people's Christmas has been badly disrupted (including that of the charter crews) . . . . but don't let us go chastising the charter people for this. They didn't damage their 747, we the customer did.

But the milk was well and truely spilt and tears were shed but there was nothing the charter could do to magic up an instant repair. Well done the RAF for getting the Tristar people in at such short notice to try and rescue what they could and many thanks to the actual Tristar crew.

But let's not forget that the 747 is a good airbridge for ASI / MPA and we all look forward to seeing it back with us as soon as possible.

Merry Christmas to All ! :O :ok: :O

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Are you telling us the Movers, I say again The Movers have yet again bashed an aircraft:rolleyes:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Bin-Oolie]

Well they didn't run into it this time. They just closed the cargo door when the loader gizmo was still within striking distance. Down came the door. Door contacted with loader gizmo. Door badly damaged. Aircraft grounded.

Then some pax are told the 747 is unserviceable as it has a pressurisation problem ??!!?? Not untrue of course . . but far from the full picture !

[L J R]

A door that is broken will be a pressurisation problem so therefore there is some truth in this mis-information.

[Brain Potter]

Bin-O. Thanks for the facts.

Perhaps we should say that the regular service has failed. Once FSTA has replaced VC10/TriStar there will be even less chance of mounting a short-notice rescue in such cases. There simply won't be any spare airframes that are untasked (total numbers of about 9 vs 19). FJ crews - expect to lose your UK Towline tanker at short-notice with tiresome regularity on a task priority basis. :(

[brit bus driver]

Like that doesn't happen already!

:hmm:

[HercErk]

So If the Cargo door is Fooked does this mean a knock on effect for the boys and girls who will be hoping to be home for new year? Hope not as although My xmas plans are now no more i wouldn't wish this kind of thing on anyone.

Many thanks again to all those involved in to sorting all us down here in FI with a lift home

[QLion]

Last year they dinked the 747's pitots and I spent an extra week down here on Q. Now they dink the door...this is getting personal! Guess I have to kiss off the New Year and the chance to spend the rest of the school hols wiv the kids...ho, ho, effin ho.:(
Top marks for the 216 mates for the Xmas rescue run.
Dear Mr charter, please please pretty please forgive (in the spirit of the season) your customer and fix the door ASAP. I am confidant that the professional mover team at BZN will do everything in their power to ensure that this will never happen agi....oh!:\

[hellomoto]

Good news re the 747. It WILL resume normal SAA service wef 27 Dec 06. Fact from the horses mouth, 2 hours ago.

[Uncle Ginsters]

I heard an interesting stat from a very senior source last week. Do remember that stats can be made to read whatever you want them to - he was defending the AT fleet (rightly so :D ) vs. the charters....
"The AT fleet are not waning - in fact, the on-time stats for both AT and Charter are within a % of each other at around 58%"

So what does that mean?
a. Poor ac serviceability of an ageing fleet is irrelevant?
b. Our charters are equally poor?
or c. There is a common factor (whether it be process or people) dealing with both Service AT and Charter ac that delay 42% of all flights (give or take a few % for other factors)? :ugh:

Just a thought.
Hope you all make a speedy return from wherever you may be,
Merry Christmas :ok:

[ACSfirstfail]

The TriStar is coming! Fingers crossed it stays serviceable. Its made some time up on the schedule. 216 Sqn saves the day again!!

[dallas]

"The AT fleet are not waning - in fact, the on-time stats for both AT and Charter are within a % of each other at around 58%"



How utterly, utterly mediocre. :hmm:

[SASless]

58%.....sounds like Eastern Airlines just before they went out of business!:E

[D-IFF_ident]

Are the transfer loaders at Brize suitable for wide-bodies? IIRC Brize used to have only K-loader types, which are not suitable for 747s, particularly when opening and closing cargo doors. I could easily see a door/loader scrape occurring, which would not be the fault of the movers, whose Christmas' have also been ruined; 'twould be another incident caused by penny-pinching at command level.

[Uncle Ginsters]

D-IFF_ident,
I agree - sorry, I did not mean to initiate another 'Mover Bashing' thread! More that the quoted stat potentially guides us to the root of at least some of the problem, rather than the endless bashing of our ageing fleet(s).

:D Never mind the thread-creep....well done the 216th and all at Brize for their efforts.:D

[bayete]

Tristar Landed 2 mins ago.:D

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

"I could easily see a door/loader scrape occurring, which would not be the fault of the movers"......................

Please explain as that's all lost on me:ugh:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Bin-Oolie]

in fact, the on-time stats for both AT and Charter are within a % of each other at around 58%"


Well statistics can show what ever you want. But this operation isn't what the trade would call a "normal operation" When the 747 crew and aircraft are set to go (fuelled up . . . pax ready to board . . . flt plan in etc etc ) but the customer then says they want them to wait for a piece of "important freight" that needs to be on board then the charter has to obviously wait. The 2 hr delay goes down (on stats) as a late departure . . . but what control did the charter have on this ?

None at all, of course. The charter endeavours to be as flexible as possible to accomodate the customer's needs. Freight pallets wrong size ? Well let's just knock them down, rebuild a little and accept the delay. A senior officer late en-route ? ( maybe for a very plausible reason ) . . . . well just hold the flt and forget that the charter's en-time departure stats will suffer.

You can bat as much blame as you want towards the charter but the fact is that 99% of the time the 747 charter is there and ready to go . . . but the customer himself delays the departure. Sometimes for the reasons above . . . sometimes for an incorrect loading. How come ASI and MPA always give a load well within the c of g envelope but Brize often don't ? Have a look back and see how many times the Brize loadsheet is out and the load has to be re-adjusted ? Obviously not intentional of course . . . but check the facts and you'll see it has happened. MPA have a MS XL spreadsheet programme that ensures a good load EVERY time . . . . how come Brize don't use it ?

Look at where the delays stem from. Delays at ASI are rare. Delays into MPA are normally down to weather ( x-winds) and so are out of everybody's hands . . . the high % of the customer delays are out of Brize.

So when you read stats about late departures then read them in the same way that the government assure us that we're all paying less tax and the NHS is working. Stats might say this but the man in the street knows it's a load of cock.

If we load the 747 on time and within the envelope ( and our VIP pax are positioned at Brize according to schedule ) then our charter will meet our scheduled time of departure and the airbridge will run on time. When we don't then he will run late . . . but don't let's just chalk this up as a 58% on / off time for the stats; best we look and see what part we ( ie RAF Brize ) are playing in this.

You can change the charter as much as you want but if you don't address the real cause of the delays (and 58% shouldn't be acceptable) then we'll never sort the problem out. There's a lot we can do to improve these "stats" . . . if only we admit we have a part to play.

All the best for 2007 :O

[Uncle Ginsters]

Bin-Oolie,
Here's the other end of the stick, old chap, as i think you have the wrong one :=
I don't really see anyone seriously batting at the charter here...genuine folk trying to get home, genuine folk trying to get them home, and other genuine folk wondering why we have to try so hard to get them home on time - but no-one bashing the charter.
Please re-read my original post:
So what does that mean?
a. Poor ac serviceability of an ageing fleet is irrelevant?
b. Our charters are equally poor?
or c. There is a common factor (whether it be process or people) dealing with both Service AT and Charter ac that delay 42% of all flights (give or take a few % for other factors)?

I thought i was leaving it to your intuition, but clearly that's not enough...it is option 'c' that is the issue.
-It is option 'c' that needs addressing,
-and it is option 'c' that any of us connected with RAF AT must address at the moment in time to improve the service and save our credibility with our customers.:ok:

I'm guessing the Timmy should be somewhere mid-journey right now - top effort chaps, enjoy your Christmas.

Here's to the Turkey and some good stuffing on Christmas Day,
Uncle G :ok:

[Bin-Oolie]

Apologies Uncle G. I've re-read. We obviously agree where the delays stem from.

:D Big round of applause for the Timmy crew for a splendid effort. :D

[bayete]

Just have to say a massive thanks to 216 Sqn and the crew from yesterday. I felt that the pax were superbly looked after in the spirit of the day:ok: .
I believe OC 216 will be recieving a few lauditory letters.
Also considering that it was an early check-in at MPA on Xmas morning, it was the most civil and painless time that I have spent in the terminal so thanks to all at MPA for getting us away a little early.
Finally well done to the ASI staff who managed the 1Hr turn around to ensure that the crew had a slightly shorter crew duty day.
Thanks to all and wish you all the best in the New Year.
Now back to catch up on all the Stella and Champers that I missed out on yesterday.
Bayete

[LFFC]

Sounds like 216 Sqn really performed excellently for you! Well done to all concerned!

Looking back on this thread, it appears that they got airborne from the UK in the evening of the 23rd, flew to the Falklands, and managed to get you home late on Christmas day or very early on Boxing day! What a fabulous effort! I bet you'd never see the like from a civilian charter service!

Happy Holiday to all!

[Tempsford]

LFFC,

The Civilian Charter Service appreciates your comments.

[LFFC]

LFFC,

The Civilian Charter Service appreciates your comments.

Temps,

OK, seeing as it's Christmas, I admit that maybe I've jumped to a conclusion without knowing the whole story. So perhaps you can help me out and correct me. Would a civilian charter service have been able to match that performance, from a standing start, presumably with no crews positioned around the route?

[Tempsford]

LFFC

Thanks for the levelled response. We move in different spheres of aviation, but at the end of the day, the end game is the same, to provide a service. Sometimes things go wrong which we have little or no control over and it would be incorrect to tar all involed with the same brush.
My employer does a lot or government work and we value that business. We also recognise that we are required to supply you the customer the service that you pay for.
In answer to your question, could we provide the same response level that was done on this ocassion, probably not as like you we have crew hour limitations, but without the crews down route, we would have had to contend with the issue of crew rest, tech support etc. So well done to the folks concerned on this ocassion.

Temps

[LFFC]

LFFC

In answer to your question, could we provide the same response level that was done on this ocassion, probably not as like you we have crew hour limitations, but without the crews down route, we would have had to contend with the issue of crew rest, tech support etc. So well done to the folks concerned on this ocassion.

Temps

I think that's the point I was trying to make. I've often heard it said that civilian charter can replace the military strategic AT capability. This was yet another example of why it can't always do that!

[Lowkey]

Hi all,
216 Sqn bust a gut to make this trip work and as one of those involved all the way round it was worth all the initial heartache. Yes my Xmas day may have to be today now but any hurt has been wiped away by the comments here on the forum, the thanks from the adults but most importantly the smiles from the children warmed all hearts. I know many of us will remember one particluar face, coming North, of 2 children when they realised that Santa had managed to leave "presents" for them with the crew.
Priceless..............absolutely priceless.
All involved all the way round made every effort to get the trip completed as soon as possible and I would like to express my thanks to all concerned. (Yes even to the movers especially in ASI!) Several expressed regret that more could not have been done and I give you this one thought.
If you can look in a mirror and say to your conscience that you did your best then you can ask no more of yourself!
Thanks again to all involved, this worked because we all behaved as a single unit. Lets continue to do this.
Merry Xmas and a Happy New Year.
Lowkey

[SaddamsLoveChild]

Well done 216, probably the good Christmas story of the seeason. Acidents happen and people in all 3 services always step up to the plate to recover the situation but that is due in the main to them having goodwill and loyalty to their fellow servicemen but this is continually being eroded. CinC Strike would do well to remember this after his 2 page ramble of the year to date and the cheery news that it isnt going to get any better.:ugh:

I only hope that it does get better in 2007, but in the mean time, aircrew, movers, Opsies and all involved........well done:D

[polyglory]

Bravo Zulu to all involved :)

[Pstrop]

:D I would like to echo the sentiments expressed by Lowkey. The faces of those two young girls made everything worthwhile. Their smiles and joy touched everyone on the aircraft, it was wonderful:) . Thankyou to all those on the crew who, from midnight on 22, were determined to achieve this task in the quickest and safest way possible. Your CAN DO attitude was exceptional and it was a privilege to be part of that crew. I would also like to pass on my personal thanks to all those at ASI and MPA who were instrumental in our rapid turn rounds. A final thanks goes to our families (the crew) who, despite having to postpone their christmas festivities, supported us all the way. I hope you all had a Merry Christmas and Best wishes for the New Year. See you around the bazaars in 2007 :ok:

[Runaway Gun]

Personally I've been very satisfied from the crew of the contract aircraft into and out of theatre. Sure, sometimes an individual Flight Attendant might not behave as sweet as a bunch of freshly picked roses, but they've probably had to deal with a few A-holes just before serving me my cup of tea, and they've probably had their own personal lives messed up a little from delays or other setbacks.

I happily add that my most recent charter flight was all smiles - with service and banter even better than many of my holiday trips with the large commercial airlines. Even the Captain threw in some jolly banter over the intercom.

Thankyou :ok:

[MooseJaw]

Rumour has it that the Muppets were moving their crimble tree - took a wrong turn in the fog - the forklift lost nosewheel steering - the hot toddy flask slipped and as they reached to grab it - the forklift departed and the tree it was carrying impaled the Timmy .......... ?

[VuctoredThrest]

Many years ago (1988 if memory serves) 216 got me (a civilian no less) out of a scrape . I was left alone with only a credit card and passport in Singapore while my Hawk lift continued to Australia (having started in UK). Anyway 216 were passing by supporting the F3 Golden Eagle holiday (sorry tour) and happened to be in the area. A couple of phone calls later and next day I was taken to Darwin to rejoin the Hawks. Very happy daze - thanks again 216.

[Scribbly dee]

The South Atlantic charter is bust again. :* This time a technical problem, means it is two days late and has to fly low and slow and stop at Rio on the way to ASI and Tenerife on the way to blighty for fuel. :confused: Contrary to some of the threads this is not unusual it happens at least twice a month. :{ There are two big problems with this airbridge.

1. There are too many stakeholders involved in getting it off the ground on time both in the UK and at MPA. Everyone wants there little bit of power and half the stakeholders don't even talk to each other.:ugh:

2. The whole thing is run by contractors right from entering the gate at Brize through to building the pallets, driving the vehicles, supplying and flying the aircraft etc etc. Now lets face it we don't usually go out and get the best contractor do we? They are the cheapest money can buy and in life you get what you pay for and we are pretty good at accepting the dross and paying even when the various contractors fail. If we didn't there would be no Board of Directors jobs for retiring top brass.....!!!! :=