sar force implosion

[doris day]

guys the writing is on the wall. we are suddenly losing far too many people and with no ability to replace. how many pilots, winchmen. winchop/radops. chc is a very attractive alternative

[1771 DELETE]

Its the same writing thats on the wall for everyone / squadron thats undermanned and overworked, nothing new here then !

[threepointonefour]

guys the writing is on the wall. we are suddenly losing far too many people and with no ability to replace. how many pilots, winchmen. winchop/radops. chc is a very attractive alternative


Interestingly, I applied for a x-over to Radop from FJ nav about 5 yrs ago.

I was told;

1. We don't need anyone.
2. The SAR world is fully manned.
3. You're needed in the FJ world (14 F3 navs left the force within the previous 2 years to take up various pilot x-over and aerosystems posts).

and then,

4. We're heavily recruiting.

" ... but those recruits will take a couple of years to get through the system"

5. We can't justify moving you.

" ... why not?"

6. Because we can pay a Sgt 2/3 of your salary.


So, 5 yrs on I'm leaving, having turned down PA. I sympathise with the SAR boys, but not with the RAF.

Those of you who stay will continue to get screwed, while the commitments increase.

The hierarchy will continue to get promoted, keeping quiet until they leave the service at which point they will start to sympathise with the squaddie/airman/seaman - a sentiment that will only serve to enhance their new media career. I'd love to have stayed, but the deal was all 'one-way'.

This isn't actually about me or you, but the fact that sadly, one of the most prestigious arms of the RAF will be privatised and the public's safety will be compromised by commercial pressures.

[doris day]

Sorry Anita,
Not drying my eyes.
Not moaning about 10, 11,12, 13 shifts a month, and won't rise to the SH bait, as all true. It's not the point of so much extra work but the point that the SAR boys are starting to abandon a sinking ship, because there is such a viable alternative outside. That started with ex Stn Cdr / Sqn Cdrs / QHIs, Winchmen, Radops. There is not the same alternatives for very capable, and professional SH crewmen, who i admire extremis, but there are for SARBOYS......................W..................kers.

[Rigga]

Maybe its because your not producing enough 'material' benefit to justify your subsidies! and, like Hospital A&E Depts, you can be rationalised to being within two hours attendance to an incident.
Its supposed to be cynical - see the Meltdown thread.

[Faithless]

Interestingly, I applied for a x-over to Radop from FJ nav about 5 yrs ago.

I was told;

1. We don't need anyone.
2. The SAR world is fully manned.
3. You're needed in the FJ world (14 F3 navs left the force within the previous 2 years to take up various pilot x-over and aerosystems posts).

and then,

4. We're heavily recruiting.

" ... but those recruits will take a couple of years to get through the system"

5. We can't justify moving you.

" ... why not?"

6. Because we can pay a Sgt 2/3 of your salary.


So, 5 yrs on I'm leaving, having turned down PA. I sympathise with the SAR boys, but not with the RAF.

Those of you who stay will continue to get screwed, while the commitments increase.

The hierarchy will continue to get promoted, keeping quiet until they leave the service at which point they will start to sympathise with the squaddie/airman/seaman - a sentiment that will only serve to enhance their new media career. I'd love to have stayed, but the deal was all 'one-way'.

This isn't actually about me or you, but the fact that sadly, one of the most prestigious arms of the RAF will be privatised and the public's safety will be compromised by commercial pressures.


:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :ok: Good Luck Chum and well said

[Arctic Tern]

Doris Day
Oh my, what a sad state of affairs. Not too long ago RAF SAR Boys were telling everybody they were the best and bad-mouthing the likes of CHC and Bristows - now it would appear that the rats are deserting the sinking ship. We all sympathise - The current undermanning and slow output from SARTU/OCU is making it difficult to replace a few guys who have left. But don't be too quick to jump ship - the grass ain't alway greener on the outside. You have a service to be proud of and I for one find the current trend of 'picking over the bones' most distasteful. The smart people around anticipate that CHC have many challenges ahead and if anybody thinks it will be a good place to be over the transition then good luck. Furthermore, don't for one moment believe that you are going to get as much training as in the RAF. Commercial constraints will restrict flying to a minimum, so hang on to those memories of 25 - 30 hrs a month for a bit longer. Harmonised SAR is a long way off yet and I wouldn´t right-off the milSAR too soon.
For those of you in RAF and RN SAR who still have some pride - good luck and keep up the excellent work. :D

[SaddamsLoveChild]

Guys, just go, make a new life and be happy. After a few years the few will remember 'we used to have a SARF' and muse how it was better but in the long run the PR argument will always be won by the Reds and glossy magazines, and the FJ/other aircrew fraternity will just have to pay more attention to the Dinghy drills and rely on the RNLI/ International maritime rules. I sympathise because it is a great lifestyle and very challenging but can the service afford that when everyone else across the aviation fleets are working so hard and breaking harmony; I think not. I have never heard any of my SAR rearcrew mates complain about 2 many shifts, overwork etc.:)

The Govt have effectively (and wrongly) written the SARF off and IMHO not had much resistance from the RAF hierarchy in protecting a part of the RAF that consistently performs above and beyond. If I have offended then I am sorry but you are suffering manning wise no more or less than any other fleet, you just have somewhere to go if you are bold enough to beat the rush and lets face it - you are probably better off in a company (chc) that is on the way up than in a company that is on the way down (RAF). ;)

[Green Flash]

Will the SAR exodus have any effect on the CSAR capability? of the RAF or they very disimiler and am I barking up the wrong tree?

[SaddamsLoveChild]

Not unless they now issue Combat High Slippers and a pipe with no IR signature. Sorry wrong tree mate try the Merlin boys and girls,,,,,,,,,,,

Having delved into the depths of my long term memory, The SARF wrote itself out of existence by refusing to take on the CSAR Role and being too precious about themselves in thw mid 90's. At a time when other branches like Admin, RAFP and Supply were looking to morph themselves into the new expeditionary air force the SARF continued on in blind ignorance. Your Commanders only have themselves to blame.

[toddbabe]

saddams love child do you think the seaking mk3 is the right platform for csar?

[Spurlash2]

ToddBabe
For SK Mk3 read Merlin Mk3.
For CSAR read JPR.
Catchup FFS.:ok:

[R 21]

Gents

join the club !! SAR boys w:mad:s!

Short they have no idea what short means.
WSOP poster as said no more Puma crewman may get posted even off to SAR for a rest bite due to the cronic shortages on their fleet. Chinook, Puma and Merlin all flat out and they are complaining about protecting their 12 days a month shift.

Get real, they have no comprehension how easy they have it.

[SAR Bloke]

R21, have you actually any idea what you are talking about? Rhetorical question because your post shows huge ignorance.

Try keeping 2 aircraft on call every day with 3 Captains and 3 Radops. It's OK for a fews days but after a few weeks it is not sustainable. This is not an uncommon situation for us. We are slightly better off with loadies (4) but I think you would be surprised at the workload. This is not a new problem but has got slightly worse recently. Bear in mind that we have sent more pilots SH than we got back in return over the last few years. Most people that have come to SAR from SH are surprised at how hard they are working.

I have nothing but respect for the boys and girls on the SH force but if you think SAR has it easy you need to get your head out of the sand. Just because we work predominately in the UK (although we have aircrew ops officers in more than one of the worlds hot spots, and don't forget we also hold the only mil rotary asset in the Falklands) does not mean we aren't suffering from the same constraints as everyone else.

For those that keep going on about pipe and slippers, those times have long gone. The vast majority of pilots are first and second tourists working their butts off just like everyone else.

(now removing hook from mouth).

[R 21]

SAR Bloke

Huge ignorance, I think not. I have many friends who are SAR Boys and have come from SH. They ALL state that those pilots, crewmen who are straight to SAR and have never experienced SH ops, have no idea how easy they have it.

A stint in Club Stanley a few times a year hardly compares to Iraq or the Stan!

SAR BOYS!!!!!!!:mad:

[sarmonkey]

Fellow SARboys and SHboys

Aren't we all rather missing the point here? Yes, SAR is a sh1tload easier than getting shot at in some godforsaken hole with nothing to show for itself other than massive oil reserves. Any sarboy that tells you otherwise needs to get out more. Likewise, don't bitch about how easy it is from the sidelines of SH and not apply to do it. As keeps being said, we're short of people so if you want the easy life, just come on in, the water's lovely. The concern that was raised at the start of this thread is that pretty soon, that easy option won't be there and you butch types on SH (note: tongue in cheek - I've done SH) will have the choice of getting shot at in one sh1thole, or getting shot at in another. If that's your bag baby, well you crack on. Personally, I think it would start to chafe after the first 5 years.

SAR's manning problems today are SH's tomorrow.

I'm off to take the job phone off the hook, cos it's a bit foggy.

[R 21]

SAR MONKEY

totally agree though its a shame the SAR option is being closed to Puma mates. Wonder is it the same for the other SH squadrons?

SAR BOYS!!

:p

[sarmonkey]

SAR MONKEY

totally agree though its a shame the SAR option is being closed to Puma mates.

SAR BOYS!!

:p

That's news to everyone here, old boy, including the numerous ex-Puma chaps. Suggest you don't believe the hype and dig a little deeper.

[R 21]

Sar Monkey

Have a good friend on Pumas who said crewman leader passed on the good news direct from PMA !

:confused:

[sarmonkey]

it does sound like the carefully thought-out and practical manning policy that we've come to know and love....

[doris day]

R21, Ratty thanks for your inputs.
Many of us are ex SH and I know being shot at was not really my cup of tea and don't envy my fellow brothers and sisters on SH in the warmer areas around the world.
However SAR 10 shifts in a Summer month = 20 days = 340 hours per month at work. However not complaining and accept Wokka boys work v hard and would not elect to swap.
Drums Holyhead Harbour yep benign.
Winched onto fishing boat Sea State 8 not
Winched to fallen climber, 3000 ft drop below the winchman not
We have had 2 Winchmen severly injured in last 8 years both who could easily have been killed.
However equally same on SH, Hercs, Nimrods. I am certainly not complaining but SAR may not exactly be drys on the Golf course, as perceived by others.
However love the job.