Question on PVR

[toysforboys]

I am looking to PVR from the RAF, having problems at home and am looking to get out as soon as possible.

I have been told by insworth that 16 months is min time. I am in the process of appealing at the moment.

Does anyone have any hints or tips or ways i can get out quicker.

I know i signed a contract, but need to move back home.

Any help would be good

Thanks

Car

[R 21]

You could get a solicitor involved. There is stories of an aircrewm mate who took a months leave and when his boss checked his in tray found his PVR with a letter from his solicitor. Letter stated that his client the aircrew chum got paid monthly therefore can leave after a months notice. All other contact was to be through the solicitor.

How true I dont know but if it was, it couldnt have been cheap.

Good luck:hmm: :hmm:

[c130jage]

I left the mob in Febuary by PVR. I gained a letter of employment fron a civvie employer, which I displayed to the Chief Clerk and was informed that I had to wait 18 months for my PVR. I then spoke to a certain well known soliciters by the initials GB and was told that I could push for redress on the grounds that the RAF forcing myself to do the 18 months was a personal issue against myself, as the RAF had just made so may of my trade redundant. I was out 28 days later and I have not looked back since. Good luck with your pursuit.

[toysforboys]

spoke to gilbert bloke and he said that i should look at welfare issues, i put my PVR app IN OCTOBER, got my date back in november and put appeal in 2 weeks ago. Still heard nothing back, not sure if it slows down around xmas.

Problem is, that 3 months has already passed. If my appeal is rejected i dont know where to go from that point.

Put a letter into chf clk with appeal, got safa to put one in 2!! Boss keeps saying that he cant afford to let me go due to manning issues though

:ugh:

if anyone knows any tips that might help, give me a shout

[AdanaKebab]

Heard a story about a naval chap who resigned his commission directly to HM Queen. He went to one of her engagements and stood in the crowd with his commissioning scroll and when she was shaking hands with the the crowd he handed it to her saying he would like to resign his commission. She took it. Job done!:ok:

[charliegolf]

If true, what a complete arse. To do such a selfish thing to any hostess is crass, but to the Queen.........

Lucky break for RN though.

CG

[threepointonefour]

You could always try asking Mrs PM to help you out with your human rights case. Problem is, I guess you're not an asylum seeking, multi-ethnic, differently-abled, gay, single parent midget with learning difficulties on a low income.

Incidentally, I thought that Euro employment law dictated that the forces' PVR nonsense was now a max of 6 mths?

[Climebear]

Incidentally, I thought that Euro employment law dictated that the forces' PVR nonsense was now a max of 6 mths?


Not so. The Armed Forces have a specific exemption from such legislation (unlike the imagined exemption from the sex discimination legislation that resulted in the numerous compensation payouts). Indeed, the PVR policy has been tested in the courts. The claimants lost which is why Mr Blades has advised toysforboys to try the compassionate angle rather than challenge through legal channels.

[Melchett01]

I'm certainly no leagle eagle ... leagle beagle maybe, but one thing crossed my mind about this one.
We have terms of service rather than an official contract and are subject to Aunty Liz's requirement. However, given all the various human rights & employment laws out there, I'm sure a half decent employment lawyer would be able to argue that our terms of service and the day to day characteristics of our employbear all the hallmarks in all but name of a contract. And as such, you should be able to serve notice in a similar manner to anybody else under contract.
Just a thought, possibly already been tried before, probably wouldn't work, but worth a shot if you really are that desperate to get out.

[toysforboys]

thanks all so far, got to see chf clk on tuesday!! so im hoping he can help a little, have set may as my target!! hoping i get that.

just seem to be going into a brick wall at the moment. everything is so slow.

see what happens, if anyone else thinks of anything give me a shout

thanks

[timex]

If as you say, you are having probs at home then it's time to get the Padre involved and Welfare. You may not get out much earlier but you could get an extended leave....

[N Joe]

Did a Cranwell MSc a few years ago with a guy who didn't get picked up so PVR'd and was told he had to do 3 years amortization. His wife worked in HR and mentioned the one month thing; however, her firm's lawyers said the RAF could expect 1 for 1 return on the MSc so he told the RAF he would stay for a year. They objected but caved when he mentioned legal action and let him go.

[toysforboys]

i looked at legal action, but the costs would start to mount then. Was thinking about putting a letter in about lawyers and stuff, but thought it might go against me.

Just dont see the point into forcing someone to go to work for that long a period. At the moment i am working hard still, but the more bits that wind me up, the harder i am finding going to work.

Anyone know how the appeals work?? do they look at trade information or just luck of the draw??

[Faithless]

Think the laws have just changed but as always some units are the last to know. One lad was under the impression that he had 12 months notice but if he had a job to get out to and a letter to prove he had been offered a place he would be out sooner.....He presto he is out in Jan 07...with only four months notice.:ok:

[toysforboys]

Think the laws have just changed but as always some units are the last to know. One lad was under the impression that he had 12 months notice but if he had a job to get out to and a letter to prove he had been offered a place he would be out sooner.....He presto he is out in Jan 07...with only four months notice.:ok:


yeah, tried that!! Didnt even get a mention in the end. Boss will not have post gapped letter goes away with everything i send. That brick wall that i keep hitting, just hoping this tuesday when i see chf clk that i get a better reply than sorry you are here till then, deal with it!!

[The Gorilla]

Ideally you want to keep it amicable, try to get everyone on side, not easy I know. But as a last resort get a solicitor who specialises in employment law, that isn't GB by the way! Have them write directly to PMA or whatever it is called these days requesting you be released outlining the details why and the consequences should you be denied early release. Cost about £200 to £250 but it will grab someones attention.

I got out in under five months but as I have said so many times on here, you are not dealing with a level playing field when the MOD are involved. More importantly my Sqn was prepared to gap my post, not that I would have ever flown again if they didn't! :)

Good luck.

[threepointonefour]

Boss will not have post gapped letter goes away with everything i send. That brick wall that i keep hitting ...

So, just to publicly pick up on this, the problems you are having at home are so bad that you feel you have to PVR, and your boss isn't willing to help.

It's a shame you can't name and shame the unit in question.

No further comment.

[Bladdered]

What trade/branch are you and how long have you been in since completing training? 16 months seems a strange number. Critical trades were 12 months minimum waiting time until recently, less critical trades were 6 months? Have you spoken to the trade desk, they are normally very helpful when not battling redundancy and downsizing themeselves? Chief Clerk may speak to them for you. If you can find yourself a job and your boss is prepared to gap your post, some sympathetic treatment is normally considered.

[Spanish Waltzer]

As posted by bladdered, 16 months seems an odd time unless you are tied by a return of service or something similar for training received.

Does anyone know if there is a maximum time (RoS excepted) that the mil can keep you once PVR is submitted? I always thought it was 12 months????

[toysforboys]

My return of service requires me to stay in till feb 08. Only 14 months now, but was longer when i first got my date. I finished my training 2 years ago, but am required to be in trade 3 1/2 years before i can leave.

The Gorilla, think i will look into solicitor today. Will also ring PMA for an update.

Bladdered, i am going to ring CHF clk and trade desk as well. See if i can get any help.

[6Z3]

Sleep with the boss's wife. Used to be the standard way to get out early. Not sure how that would affect your problems at home though!

[althenick]

Sleep with the boss's wife. Used to be the standard way to get out early. Not sure how that would affect your problems at home though!
...Well that just brought the whole tone down to ground zero ;)
Just thinking out loud here, but during my time working with the dark blue, they used to give you a compassionate draught nearer to home. Since the RAF have far more bases than the RN and they are spread out more evenly in the UK; then could this not be an option for you?

[toysforboys]

SaddamsLoveChild, thanks for the reply. My needs are genuine, and the whole stress of the PVR issues are making them worse to be honest. Boss is straight from training though, and not sure he knows what to do, keeps telling me that he is RAF through and through.

6Z3, dont think he has time for a relationship from what he tells me

[toysforboys]

Just spoke to chf clk, been told that they will rec that i get an early realease date, along with my letter and letter from smo saying about personal problems. Not sure if the appeal will help? Does anyone know how these work? and what the chances are of it helping?

[Bladdered]

Depends what trade you are now. If you are TG1, TG17 or other trades that were being shed in final round of redundany (this time around) then there is a good chance that RoS will be ignored. If you find a job quickly or have a particularly strong 'compassionate' case this will help. TG2, FFtr, RAFP, Gnr or Medic and you may not be able to get out earlier than your RoS unless there are real and significant factors that will affect your ability to operate fully (in UK and in operational theatres).

The paperwork is staffed through PMA6 staff to PMA5. Make sure that the paperwork is carefully written up and that you do not resort to emotional blackmail. Get the Chf Clk to draft some meaningful words and not just 'agreed', strongly recommended' or other meaningless but rather too well used comments. The case will need the support of your Flt/Sqn Cdr who may well be required to indicate whether the post can be gapped - there is of course a risk here that they may not be able to take. All too frequently the Flt Cdr wrtes - supported if PMA can replace........this will not help you. Hope this helps.

Ed

[toysforboys]

Thanks for the information Ed, The main problem is have is Flt Cdr. To him its all about numbers. On every letter he puts not willing to gap and thats about it (Never think i will get him onside).

I have a job lined up, The RAF have my job offer. The RAF have medical proof of my problems from home.

Bladdered, you say not to use emotional blackmail. In my letter i said that if i was made to do 16 months, my performance would be affected and the RAF would be wasting money keeping me employed (was that a bad thing to put on my appeal?)

[Bladdered]

Hum, suspect that has been heard before unless your case is very compelling. If you have a job offer and medical support, that will definately help.

If you have to appeal against a no decision by PMA, if I were you, I would go around the flt cdr who appears out of his depth. As I do not know what sort of sqn you work in, I cannot give specific advice - do you have a WO or FS to speak to who may be able to speak sympathetically to the sqn cdr? At the moment, It sounds as though you have enough in place to support your first application but if you fail, be prepared to up the stakes - your local MP may be willing to write a letter too.

Ed

[BluntedAtBirth]

Bladdered has it spot on. This is why we have WOs who must (surely ???) be looking after sqn manning for the sqn boss. Your sqn cdr will have been round the block a bit and might have a 'bigger-picture' view than your shiny new flt cdr. I cannot recommend too strongly that you get your WO on side - and hence are a good lad (or lass) with a problem -rather than pulling in a lot of outside interference which will, if nothing else, deflect them onto to dealing with that rather than solving your problem.

I don't know your circumstances or your flt's op/commitments - it might be that your case might not hold up compared to others' problems or that your boss really does need (even a very unhappy) you to do some essential job or take your turn on det etc. However, if it is just 'I am short of people' your Boss need to get used to this for the next 30 or so years and this is the sort of training WOs are supposed to help JOs with, even if it does make their ears bleed.

Good luck anyway!

[Vage Rot]

1. Report to the MO because you are stressed and can't concentrate on your job.

2. Fail your fitness test and claim sex discrimination.

3. Refuse to give a sample at a drugs test.

Of course, If you have earned your pension already then 2 & 3 might not be as easy!

[Aeronut]

By all means tell me to wind my neck in but may I ask you - is it really the RAF that is at the root of your problem? By leaving the RAF is it possible that you add to your concerns by having to find a job on top of whatever else is giving you grief?

There really is a lot of support that you could draw upon in the RAF. I'm disappointed for you that you don't appear to have a boss that could assist you - probably because he's cutting his teeth at a tricky time, however, there are plenty of other options and I urge you to try to find someone that will listen before you go the solicitor route. Is there an approachble SNCO you know?
Good luck.