What To Do With A PPL?

[nickd01]

Hi,

I've always been keen to do my PPL, and now I'm finally able to. I've done trial flights, and enjoyed them but now I'm unsure...

Once I've got the PPL - what can I do with it?

- I can fly to France I suppose, but could I fly off to the mountains with some friends to go skiing for the weekend?
- I'd love to fly to places in the UK; but then I'd be somewhere without a car - is this a pain?
- How much luggage can I take with me? I love MTB-ing. Can I fit me and a MTB in a plane and go to Wales for the weekend?

What do you do with your PPL? I just want to get an idea of what options are open to me once I've got the licence.

Thanks

Nick

[BlueRobin]

Depends on what tickles yer fancy. Some like

- going topless (oo-er) with the wind a-whistling about their bits and in the wires
- others think putting down on itsy-bitsy farmstrips is the dogs when all the world has to make to with 1000m of tarmac and massive landing fees :ugh:
- there are those (usually of a notable age) who think nothing of spending £100+/hr going off to some European country in a PA28 at 100 knots away from the hub-bub of British airspace and toward the better sun/food
- a few wouldn't be seen dead in anything remotely spammy or indeed flying straight and level for more than 5 seconds. They are the loons, they most grunt whilst flying, hardly a smile indicating fun and their jaws are sometimes square. We shall simply call them "aerobatic pilots" (it's also jealousy on my part really!)

Many do their PPL and then decide they cannot or do not want to use it. Very rational of you to wonder at this stage.

What is a MTB? Motor-torpedo boat? Do you love Motor-torpedo boating? ;)

[S-Works]

you could do your PPL then sit and pontificate on flying at your leisure on forums like these..... :p

[nickd01]

Depends on what tickles yer fancy. Some like

What is a MTB? Motor-torpedo boat? Do you love Motor-torpedo boating? ;)

MTB = Mountain Biking!

I was just trying to see how flying could (or could not) fit into my life. As you rightly say, I don't want to do it and spend all that money not to use it...

[julian_storey]

Getting my PPL was the best and most amazing thing that I ever did.
Being able to grab some friends and just take off for a weekend is the most amazing thing to be able to do.
You can explore France, there are loads of places that you can go where a car isn't necessary - or you could hire a car.
Do it! :-)
Julian

[BlueRobin]

you could do your PPL then sit and pontificate on flying at your leisure on forums like these..... :p

Yeah yeah, another term to go :8 and I can commence flying again with my CPL/IR :)

[scooter boy]

Nick, the most important thing to do with your new PPL is enjoy yourself. The license is a ticket to a whole world of experiences that the average ground based mortal will never understand. Just like a driving license the PPL is a license to learn and there are limits to what you can do with it in a practical sense.

In response to your questions:

Yes you can fly over to France once you have your license, however if you want to get to the mountains expediently (in the winter) and safely you will preferably need an aircraft which is deiced and pretty quick (140kt + cruise) with a decent service ceiling (20000ft). Having oxygen on board may also be preferable if you want to get above most of the weather (and the alps if you want the direct route to the Italian side). You would also do well to further your PPL with an IR (easiest done in the FAA system) then fly an N-registered aircraft in the airways system - much less hassle than VFR. Altiports (Courchevel etc...) are out unless you want to do special ratings so you are looking at Chambery, Grenoble and larger airports with instrument facilities and tarmac runways if you want to be able to land there in a reasonably fast aircraft in the winter. There will also be plenty of weather that is just too harsh to risk getting in to (even with your airways equiped deiced A/C and your IR) and making this judgement call comes with experience.

You are absolutely correct in realising that off airport transport is a pain. Little airports tend to be in the middle of nowhere with non-existent transport links so if you can carry some wheels with you then you can continue your journey unbroken (albeit at about a tenth of the speed!) The diblasi folding moped works well for me (I have a couple that I carry in the back if needs be - fastest light-a/c-portable road legal transport IMHO) - you can also get a folding bicycle in (although I guarantee you will look a huge nerd astride anything you can carry in the back of your plane). I always have my driving license with me and will often rent a car at the destination rather than risk the Spanish equivalent of the M1 on my 49cc put-put.

Think IR rather than plain PPL if you really want to ski.

I'm off to the Italian alps on Thursday, not taking my moped though - too bloody cold!

My advice - do the FAA PPL then if you like it add an IR and if you become an addict (like so many of us on this site) buy an N-registered aircraft and use it as much as possible.

Good luck,

SB

[nickd01]

My advice - do the FAA PPL then if you like it add an IR and if you become an addict (like so many of us on this site) buy an N-registered aircraft and use it as much as possible.

Good luck,

SB


Many thanks - excellent info there.
Er - what's an "N" registered aircraft??

[Whirlybird]

Once you start flying, your ideas and what you want to do may change.

I went for a trial lesson, then asked the instructor if flying to France for lunch was a realistic ambition...it was something I'd always wanted to do. Yes, he said, but from as far North as we were, maybe for a weekend would be better. So I took the plunge.

I've done that weekend in France. I've done two trips there for several days. I've also done trips to Scotland and Ireland. I've flown in the USA and Russia.....but hiring when I got there, haven't tried that sort of real long distance trip yet (though you could). I've learned to fly fixed wing aircraft and helicopters, got to first solo in a flexwing microlight, had a go in a seaplane, glider, tiger moth, cub, and a few aircraft I probably can't recall right now. Oh, and swapped a helicopter flight for a balloon flight. And flown over 8,000 ft mountains and through a circular rainbow and down a canyon and low over beaches. And landed on tiny runways with the sea at either end, and high in the mountains in California, and on the beach at Barra in the Outer Hebrides, and at big international airports where I once had to wait for a 737 on final. And made lots of new friends. And finally, got myself a whole new career.

To summarise, flying has totally changed my life. And never would I have dreamed that any of this would be possible the day I walked into Welshpool Airport and said nervously, "Errrr, I'm thinking of learning how to fly".

So you see, you don't really know where it will lead. Go for it; you'll never regret it. :ok:

[MyData]

Whirlybird

how do you [fly] through a circular rainbow?



Nickd01 - just DOING the PPL is an experience in its own right. Start today and have some great fun.

[Zulu Alpha]

If you like mountain biking and skiing then why not try some aerobatics.

Not as expensive as you might think as the flights are shorter. I guarantee you'll enjoy it.

Let me know where you are and I'll make some suggestions about where to go.

[BlueRobin]

I doubt whether you could fit a mountain bike into most common club types, even if so you may not be able to get it in and out without scratching something accidentally, be able to adequately secure it and may not even have big enough doors.

[IO540]

This man wants to go away to places, which rules out "club types", because most clubs won't let you take a plane away for long.

One could fit a mountain bike into the back of a reasonable 4-seater, with the front wheel removed.

One thing worth looking at is whether there is a legal option for removing the back seats. I have seen people who have done this (admittedly Permit types, abroad) and then you can do a lot more in terms of carrying stuff, and a lot of people do travel in twos anyway.

"What is your budget" would be my first question. To "go places" one needs to make a reasonable investment in this game.

[nickd01]

This man wants to go away to places, which rules out "club types", because most clubs won't let you take a plane away for long.

"What is your budget" would be my first question. To "go places" one needs to make a reasonable investment in this game.

Yes, I suppose I do want to go places.

For me, one of the benefits would be to finish work on a Friday night (Or early afternoon) and then fly somewhere in Europe for the weekend avoiding checkin queues, rigid flight times and all the pain that flying away for a weekend can involve.

I just don't think doing laps of my local airfield sounds like much fun!

I'm going to kick-start my PPL career in SA or the States (A whole other thing to research!) as I've got lots of holiday to take so can do one of those 21-day courses. I then plan to come back to the UK and build hours with a UK instructor so I'm more confident.

I'm happy to commit a regular amount to enable me to "get away" easily. Any ideas how easy it'd be to cost it up?

[Pitts2112]

One could fit a mountain bike into the back of a reasonable 4-seater, with the front wheel removed.

Sounds tricky. Landing on the mains only would probably be no problem, but taxying would be a whole different experience! Not sure how much extra storage that would give you, though...:rolleyes:
Pitts2112 :)

[Fuji Abound]

- I can fly to France I suppose, but could I fly off to the mountains with some friends to go skiing for the weekend?
- I'd love to fly to places in the UK; but then I'd be somewhere without a car - is this a pain?
- How much luggage can I take with me? I love MTB-ing. Can I fit me and a MTB in a plane and go to Wales for the weekend?

This is a very good question. The wrong answers are also the main reason why so many give up flying.

Firstly you must be realistic with what you can do with a PPL and limited experience.

1. The Alps are out. Forget it. The only way to put it back on the agenda is with a few hundred hours to your credit, plenty of time to wait for the right weather and only then flying in the better months of the year.

2. However the north coast of France is definitely in - pretty much all year. There is much to enjoy if you like French food and culture.

3. Going to most airports is a pain. It is costly flying yourself there, the facilities when you get there are usually poor and there is of course rarely anything to do at the airport. Taxis only add to the cost and inconvenience.

4. In a four seater you could definitely squeeze in a mountain bike with the front wheel removed. Many use the smaller foldable bikes which are far more convenient, but of course not as capable.

So, some good and bad news. Lets turn it into better news.

1. Forget about the cost. Other than going abroad it will cost more to fly yourself there than go by car. Even going abroad there will be far cheaper alternatives. Also forget about saving time. In typical GA types anywhere within two hours flying time will be quicker to get to by road IF you take into account getting to the airport, getting the aircraft ready, and getting somewhere the other end, but, and to start the good news, it will always be quicker getting to the continent.

2. So why bother. Well you enjoy the flying don’t you? So it is better than sitting in a car and you are prepared to pay a bit more because you enjoy it aren’t you?

3. Now you need something to do when you get there, otherwise you will quickly get fed up with flying purely for its own sake or at the very least SWMBO at all times most certainly will! So read this forum and elsewhere and find flyer friendly locations. If you search there are plenty of them. What constitutes a flyer friendly location - something to do and hopefully easy to get to. For example, Cambridge, plenty of good shops, punting on the Cam, lots of history etc, bus outside the airport into town every 10 minutes (I think) and 50p to boot - a perfect day out. L2K of course, lunch in town and bikes cheaply available for hire at the airport. Be a bit braver perhaps - Alderney, really cheap car hire and they turn up on time ready and waiting at the airport, get back when you like and leave the keys in the box. A small but very beautiful island, perfect for the kids or just lazing around on nice summers days. Paris - quite doable! Go to Lognes, which is closer than any of the commercials - just about walking distance to the train station and straight into the center for a few Euros.

I hope that gives you some inspiration - there are plenty of other possibilities, but please don’t just end up bimbling around the local cabbage patch, end up getting bored with the flying and the cost and then giving up as most do!

Everything I have suggested is entirely possible with a PPL - just accept early on in your flying you need to wait for the right weather. Moreover depending on where you are these sort of trips are all doable in one day, so if you are hiring that is “club friendly”, and if you are going to Paris, perhaps go Friday Saturday which should be acceptable to most clubs.

Good luck.

[nickd01]

Lots of useful stuff

.


Many thanks, that's really helpful. I think being realistic now, as you rightly say, will ensure I go into it with eyes open.

[IO540]

Very good advice.

I wonder about the Alps. I have only ever flown straight over the top of them, at say FL150, and this is doable (in the right bit of airspace) both VFR and of course IFR. Given clear weather, I can't see a problem with landing there; some places e.g. Samedan seem easy to get into, while most of the mountain airports seem totally scary.

The other thing not yet mentioned is doing an IR. This isn't a must for European touring (perversely, one can do a lot under "VFR" if one can actually operate on instruments, bending a few little rules here and there) but an IR does help. It makes long distance touring much less effort.

But, we sit here typing up all this stuff, when the original poster might have a £500/year flying budget! As so often happens on here.

In fact I think one could generate a sort of a long term checklist, for those who want to do a PPL to go places. I learnt to fly with exactly that purpose from day 1 but there are so many things I would have done differently had I known what I learnt later.

Nickd - I sent you an email.

Pitts2112 - that brightened up my day, between checking in a huge delivery of cardboard boxes :)

[Fuji Abound]

I wonder about the Alps.

True. I was baseing my comments on the suggestion form the original poster that he hasnt got his PPL yet. Moreover as we know it is the PPL with maybe 200 or 300 hours (no other ratings) that are probably the ones that give up most.

I think the French Alps are very doable - but not if this is you. IMHO for most just to much to cope with, particularly in the winter.

I would have thought with maybe a couple of hundred hours experience including some varied flying, time to wait for the "right" weather the Alps are quite possible in just about anything during the better months of the year.

In the winter with a schedule to keep I would have thought it is an IR, a capable airways aircraft which is deiced, probably at least 500 hours experience, and maybe still the possibility of having to add an extra day to your schedule! Unfortunately just not the realistic territory of your average PPPL.

[scooter boy]

Many thanks - excellent info there.
Er - what's an "N" registered aircraft??

Nick, an N-registered aircraft is one registered in the USA under FAA rules.
Many people choose to go down this route as it cuts through a lot of the bureaucracy associated with operating on the G-(UK CAA) register.
The DfT have been talking about restricting the use of flags of convenience in aircraft based within the UK but their latest proposal was met with significant resistance and has been shelved for the forseeable future.

SB

[fernytickles]

Lots of useful advice on here, and a very sensible question to ask in the first place.

Another way to do your research is find your local small airport and hang out there, check out the local PFA (Popular Flying Association), have a poke around flying organisation's websites, such as AOPA (Aircraft Owners & Pilots Association) and EAA (Experimental Aircraft Association - consider coming to the largest GA airshow in the world, AirVenture).

Once you have completed your PPL, the doors open to lots of other opportunities, tailwheel rating, aerobatics course, seaplane rating, helicopter rating, glider flying, the list is endless. Basically, whatever your budget and interest can accommodate.

Like Whirly, I gave it a go with no fixed idea of the long term. I now fly for a living, have been for many years, love it and have blown most of my earnings on a couple of different aeroplanes for myself.

Equally you may find that acheiving the PPL is sufficient, and something else will catch your interest. Whatever happens after your PPL is up to you, so long as you have fun getting there. Good luck :ok:

[Whirlybird]

how do you fly through a circular rainbow?


MyData,
I've only done it once. I was flying back from Swansea to Shobdon in showery conditions, and suddenly there was this completely circular rainbow right in front of me. And then I flew through it, honestly! It was quite wonderful.

On flying touring with a basic PPL....
One of the things I like is the unexpectedness of it all. Because it's so weather dependent, you never know where you'll end up, and you can't book anything in advance. This meant that on our last trip to France we got stuck in Manston due to thunderstorms, then couldn't cross to Le Touquet till late next day because of fog. So there we were at Le Touquet on a friday night in mid-summer with no hotel booked. And we, who usually stay in cheapish hotels, ended up in the Novotel, on the beach, with one wall that was all window overlooking the sea. Expensive, but quite wonderful. The next night we were in Dinard, and booked our usual 2-star hotel. It turned out to be a tiny place, tucked away in a little alley, way up in the town. As we climbed up to the top floor, Paul said, "Ah well, no sea view tonight". But we had one - right across the rooftops of the whole town to the sea beyond. Different from Le Touquet, and equally nice. The next day we ran away from a cold front heading east by crossing from Cherbourg to Goodwood - commonsense had said previously that we shouldn't do the long crossing in an old aircraft, but the front to the east and bright sunshine in Cherbourg suggested a quick change of plan. We ended up at some air rally at Goodwood, and then a fantastically luxurious (and cheap) B & B nearly.

It doesn't sound that exciting. And somehow, none of it would have been the same if we'd planned it in advance. But I just love the fact that you never know what will happen next. In this predictable world, it's maybe the last great adventure.