NPPL

[bonniejack]

Hi all,
I have been a follower of GA for many years and did start on a PPL many years ago. I have just re started training and have chosen the NPPL route. I believe it will best suit my future flying needs. I think the hours requirement is unrealistic and that was not the reason for my choice. The main reason was that I like the idea that in a world of increasing over regulation here is a a more sensible approach. What surprises me is how little mention the NPPL gets both on this site and in the magazines. It is almost as if it is forgotten about. Are there many on here who have completed training by this route? Comments?

[tmmorris]

I think you'll find the majority of people with NPPLs have them because they can't get the medical certification. When you think about it, the NPPL requires, as you say, basically the same training (though there's no radio navigation), the same written exams, the same flight test, and costs the same to use when you've got it. But you can't add night or IMC privileges, or use it abroad, or convert it to use in another country. So in practice the majority of people still have the JAR PPL, unless they are old enough to make the medical issues a problem.
Tim

[tangovictor]

re non flying abroad with NPPL, if you go the NPPL M route, and some of the modern " microlights" are as good if not better then the "old" GA machines
you can fly to Europe, no problem at all, correct if you go the NPPL SEP route.
you cannot fly abroad,
the Exams are the same, the hours required is less, and if the NPPL M route is taken, as the machines are cheaper, so is the training, considerably,
I for one, can't see that I would want an IMC or Night rating,

[tmmorris]

I for one, can't see that I would want an IMC or Night rating,

and as long as that's the case, then the NPPL(M) would be fine. I'd do the same if I didn't want to actually get to places..!

Tim

[Rod1]

There have been recent reports of France giving permission to NPPL (sep) holders to fly in French airspace.

tmmorris

VFR touring is alive and well and becoming more popular.

Rod1

[Merritt]

There have been recent reports of France giving permission to NPPL (sep) holders to fly in French airspace.
tmmorris
VFR touring is alive and well and becoming more popular.
Rod1


I also heard a report (in Pilot magazine) that the French also recently refused to speak English to some english pilots requesting departure information... Very helpful.. :rolleyes:

Steve

[Rod1]

“French also recently refused to speak English to some english pilots requesting departure information.”

Some airfields are officially French only. If this was one of them than this is not as unreasonable as it sounds. Info on French only is in Delarge, an excellent VFR guide for touring France.

Rod1

[tiggermoth]

The NPPL appears to be a very valuable licence.

One benefit is that it lasts a lifetime, is easy to keep 'current', and is less likely to be taken off you by medical problems.

I'd imagine if you live in the North then you'd not be very likely to fly abroad anyhow, so the UK-only restriction (apart from reciprocal agreements with certain countires) probably isn't much of a problem. I suppose the thing that would be most missed would be the lack of being able to add an IFR rating - but you can't use IFR for PFA type aircraft as a PPL anyhow...

The PPL does keep more doors open as far as other training and flying abroad, but if your aspirations really do change in the future then up to 10 hours (if I remember right) can be credited towards a PPL anyhow.

As an aside, in a funny way it's a bit like comparing a 'VHF-only' Radiotelephony Licence and a 'full' Radiotelephony Licence. If I had a 'full' RT licence then I probably would not make full use of it.

[nobby]

Hi
For me the NPPL is every thing. I was training for my JAR PPL ready for my cross country the week before I'm due to go "WHAM" bowel cancer in hospital for a month, surgery and then chemo:yuk: great but at least I'm still here complaining about the low cloud base etc. 10 months on and 4 hours in the air, some solo:D here I am ready for the new year to finish off my training by the summer. My medical now is the DVLA class II how lucky is that. My class II med indicated a problem so I had 18 months notice at least, I'm not that old either I'm in my forties:ok:
Nobby

[tangovictor]

Hi
For me the NPPL is every thing. I was training for my JAR PPL ready for my cross country the week before I'm due to go "WHAM" bowel cancer in hospital for a month, surgery and then chemo:yuk: great but at least I'm still here complaining about the low cloud base etc. 10 months on and 4 hours in the air, some solo:D here I am ready for the new year to finish off my training by the summer. My medical now is the DVLA class II how lucky is that. My class II med indicated a problem so I had 18 months notice at least, I'm not that old either I'm in my forties:ok:
Nobby

Good for you Nobby, Here's wishing you years of fitness and flying fun
tv

[J.A.F.O.]

STAND UP AND ADDRESS CROWD

My name's JAFO and I'm an NPPL.

The reasons that I followed that route are:

1. I'm a bimbler, not a tourer
2. Clouds are scary places to be
3. Ditto dark skies
4. It's mine for ever (well, unless I'm stupid and get found out) :}
5. It's easy to keep current
6. I don't have to pay for a medical and that money can pay for my biannual

It hasn't stopped me flying family and friends and allowing them to experience the thrill and privilege of being airborne in a light aircraft.

It didn't stop me spending the summer bimbling round with the door open in a Piper Cub and there are few finer things to do than that.

Horses for courses, for me it works.

[Crash one]

Everything JAFO said except I havn't finished it yet. At the age of 66 I have no future as an ATPL to consider, Medical I might manage, but how long for? Foreign touring, I'd rather see our bit of the planet first, The "this may change" cliche by NPPL committee seems plausible / encouraging, esp with regard to seaplane rating difference training.
All in all a good thing for a fair chunk of UK GA.
One can always upgrade if required or possible.

[S205-18F]

Ok I will come out of the closet too:E I have been licensed just over a year and the NPPL hasnt restricted me in anyway that would make me want to go for a PPL. I fly a plane with wobbly prop with differences training, I can tour if I desire, have 4 seats and I agree with JAFO et al. clouds scare me (bogey man lives there:eek: ) I dont like carrots so dark is no good. The license is for life and the money I save on medicals will pay for a lot of extra flying! It is a way of getting more people flying and it may also stop the apparent rot that is setting in where we lose pilots due to cost of keeping current.

[tangovictor]

I was advised by the CAA due to a medical problem, to use the NPPL route
Im more than pleased I did, in fact choosing the NPPL M, makes the training a whole lot cheaper, and when Im ready to purchase a machine, the newer
" fixed wing microlights" will do everything a GA machine will at a fraction of the purchase price, & maintance prices !
I intend to tour, not only the UK but Europe also, VFR, I have no inclination to fly IMC or at night,

[makchunyinjohnny]

Is it possible to upgrade a NPPL(TMG) to a JAR-PPL(A)? Or do we need a NPPL(SEP)? What kind and how much more training do we need? Does anyone fly a SF-25C Falke? Can we use the time with the Falke to upgrade?

Cheers,

Johnny

[Rod1]

Makchunyinjohnny

You can go from a MPPL TMG to an SEP, but I have no idea of the training required. The answer should be on the NPPL web site.

Rod1

[Choxolate]

I am currently a JAR-PPL due for "licence renewal" in January (first 5 years are up)where I have to hand over £130 or so to CAA to issue me with a new piece of paper. The only purpose of which is so that they can get £130 quid off me - it serves no other useful purpose.

I am also a "bimbler" and have no intentions of:-

1. Flying outside UK
2. Flying in IMC
3. Flying at night

Can anyone give me a good reason why I shouldn't turn in the JAR-PPL and get an NPPL??

Never had a problem with the medical and that is not the reason to change (except the cost every year).

[Fake Sealion]

I am embarking on NPPL (SEP) after a long gap from qualifying as a RN Helo pilot. Agree all post so far, particularly the medical issues - real or imagined. Good point JAFO about the PPL Annual Medical cost = bi-annual check ride.

I too intend to fly locally, in daylight and despite a military IR do not intend to stray from VMC. The only "extra" on my NPPL I may indulge in is aerobatics....after suitable re-fresher training of course!!:=

I too have heard of NPPl's eventually being able to fly in non-UK airspace. Anyone know more of this?

Cheers

FS

[tonyhalsall]

Personal Opinion..................................

Europe will soon control our skies and everything that flies in them and this will bring good and bad things with it:

Certification and maintenance costs for complex aircraft will increase whereas light, private aviation will benefit from a lighter hand of regulation. Innovation will return to the European (& UK) light aircraft industry and engines will be designed to carry light aircraft at 100 knots + with a miserley fuel consumption. Europe will recognise a European RPPL (NPPL) for use throughout Europe in non complex aircraft and a rational rating system based on safety aspects of European weather will enable limited Instrument Ratings at a proportionately affordable cost. There will be no reason for the recreational Pilot to go down the needlessly beurocratic and expensive JAR route when the RPPL is introduced - at a stroke medicals and licensing requirements will reflect the actual need of the recreational pilot and not the professional pilot.

The steps to achieve this are already being taken and the recent announcement of the ending of the duty exemption on AVGAS is probably not a bad thing in the long term as it will force innovation in this area. Lets be honest the big Yank engines are 1950's technology and we need to move on, innovation will be borne of necessity.

Just my opinion

Tony

[tonyhalsall]

[QUOTE=Choxolate;3017862]Can anyone give me a good reason why I shouldn't turn in the JAR-PPL and get an NPPL??[QUOTE]

No reason whatsoever unless you enjoy having a 5 year renewable licence (at cost) and depending on your age more frequent medicals (at cost).

I have just had the five year NPPL medical form counter-signed by my GP - cost £ zero. At my age compare that to two and a half full medicals!!


Tony

[tonyhalsall]

I too have heard of NPPl's eventually being able to fly in non-UK airspace. Anyone know more of this?
Cheers
FS

EASA is proposing a standardised Europe wide Recreational Private Pilots Licence RPPL and it is based on the NPPL.
In the brave new world suggested by EASA the RPPL would be recognised in all Member States

[Rod1]

“I too have heard of NPPl's eventually being able to fly in non-UK airspace. Anyone know more of this?”

In the old days the micro licence was not recognised by other European states. So many people applied for permission to fly in French airspace that the French issued blanket permission.

Several NPPL (SEP) holders have applied and allegedly got permission to fly, so this is looking hopeful.

The RPPL, now renamed the EPPL could be a big step forward. The PFA have a hope that we will be able to teach people in permit airfields from unlicensed strips this would massively reduce the cost and increase the numbers.

Rod1

[bonniejack]

Thanks all for your answers. I don't feel so out on a limb now in choosing this route. Fake Sealion I have read a posting somewhere on this site from someone who had written to Eire CAA and they were happy to accept NPPL. I like that as although I have no interest in going "foreign " I could be interested in a trip to Ireland.

Cheered up now. Today was the 5th lesson cancelled by these winds. I have a booking every day next week whilst on holiday. Surely once I can get my feet of the ground!

[julian_storey]

Another option might be an FAA PPL?

They are also valid forever, and my FAA class 2 (commercial) medical cost me just $60!

I am almost certain (someone here will no doubt confirm) that you can use it to fly day VFR in a 'G' reg aircraft IN THE UK. If you wanted to fly further afield, you can hire an 'N' reg aircraft and go where you like!

All the best

Julian

[jonkil]

and as long as that's the case, then the NPPL(M) would be fine. I'd do the same if I didn't want to actually get to places..!
Tim
If you didn't want to actually go places.....!
How about from Ireland to Prague and back in a weekend via a couple of other European countries for a spot of Site-seeing for the fun of it... in a microlight, burning less than 10 Litres P/H of Mogas, on a licence THAT is valid in other European countries, on a medical that is peanuts...... Then I suppose our low energy/lightweight plastic toys are back in the dark ages......... NOT.
You can go places VFR on a cost that makes sence in a plane that out performs almost anything out there on a like for like basis.

[tangovictor]

If you didn't want to actually go places.....!
How about from Ireland to Prague and back in a weekend via a couple of other European countries for a spot of Site-seeing for the fun of it... in a microlight, burning less than 10 Litres P/H of Mogas, on a licence THAT is valid in other European countries, on a medical that is peanuts...... Then I suppose our low energy/lightweight plastic toys are back in the dark ages......... NOT.
You can go places VFR on a cost that makes sence in a plane that out performs almost anything out there on a like for like basis.

Im sure the NPPL M allows microlights, to fly into Europe, however I think I read somewhere, that Ireland and Norway, don't recognise microlights ! I might be wrong here, anyone with better knowledge ?

[jonkil]

Tangovictor
I am based in Southern Ireland.
My NPPL(M) (to be legal) must be validated by the IAA.
This means a class 2 medical, the RT licence and a 80 euro annual fee and this will validate the licence completely for use in Ireland.... This may be going to change as the powers that be are looking at the possibility of recognising the UK NPPL Licence.
The NPPL(A) cannot be used at all in Ireland.... they will not recognise it.
No problem RE: Microlights..... My plane is on the British Registration.

Jon

[tmmorris]

Then I suppose our low energy/lightweight plastic toys are back in the dark ages......... NOT.

Not at all what I said. In fact, I've commented elsewhere about the bureaucratic nonsense which means all the interesting developments in light aviation are stuck in a PFA or BMAA day VFR only regime. I'm jealous of the aircraft, to be honest. But...

You can go places VFR on a cost that makes sence in a plane that out performs almost anything out there on a like for like basis.

Ah yes, but not at a date and time of your choosing. And as I fall firmly into the modern category of 'cash-(relatively) rich, time-poor' I need to be able to go when I have the time and the need. And that's where the IMCR/IR come in.

Tim

[FullyFlapped]

Tiggermoth :
I'd imagine if you live in the North then you'd not be very likely to fly abroad anyhow, so the UK-only restriction (apart from reciprocal agreements with certain countires) probably isn't much of a problem.
Don't be so sure, Tigger : some of us have been as far as Sheffield, and there's a flying club legend that one of the lads even went to Popham once : only they couldn't understand him on t'radio, so he didn't stay ...

Eeee bah gum, tha's a funny view o't'world, lad ...

FF :ok:

[tiggermoth]

Tiggermoth :

Don't be so sure, Tigger : some of us have been as far as Sheffield, and there's a flying club legend that one of the lads even went to Popham once : only they couldn't understand him on t'radio, so he didn't stay ...

Eeee bah gum, tha's a funny view o't'world, lad ...

FF :ok:

'tin 'tin tin

As far as Sheffield?! Blimey lad, that going a bit far - but Popham even? Are you sure they got as far as Popham (and got back in one piece too?).

The weather is so bad up here that we can't even get past the cloud to even think of going far.

Popham, though, I'll hopefully (just one day perhaps) make it as far as that, and write a book about it ! :)