Canberra PR9 leaseback?

[A and C]

I was told last night by an "aircraft enthusiast" (spotter) that the MoD has leased back two Canberra PR9 aircraft from the new civil owners.

Any truth to this ? or is it just spotter BS ?

[H Peacock]

I was told last night by an "aircraft enthusiast" (spotter) that the MoD has leased back two Canberra PR9 aircraft from the new civil owners.
Any truth to this ? or is it just spotter BS ?

Nah, can't be right. We only got rid of them because we ..."couldn't afford to keep them..." Now if a commercial operator can make it viable then I suggest that someone in the RAF/MOD has made a BIG mistake in letting them go!!!

:ugh:

H Peacock

[The Swinging Monkey]

A & C

Yeh, I can beleive that and wouldn't doubt it for a minute.

Mr Peacock, I liked your comment 'suggest that someone in the RAF/MOD has made a BIG mistake in letting them go!!!' Nothing new there then??

Seen it all before - remember the VC-10 cargo door (I think) MOD fool said 'Oh we won't need any of them, sell them for scrap' and we did, for pennies. And then a rag head drives his mule-powered cart into guess what? yep, a VC-10 cargo door! Cost of buying back from scrap man? £££millions.
BEagle will have all the full facts, but thats the gist of it.

Yes, I can see another monumental MOD foul up coming to the fore!!
Kind regards
TSM

[Pontius Navigator]

Or the Shackleton tail from the Manchester Museum of S&T?

This was a 'free' exchange. Except of course for T&S for the engineering party who had to take our u/s tail wheel assmbly down, remove the one in the museum, replace it and then reinstall.

Talk about 'robbing'. Robbing the dead even.

[G085H1TE]

I was told last night by an "aircraft enthusiast" (spotter) that the MoD has leased back two Canberra PR9 aircraft from the new civil owners.
Any truth to this ? or is it just spotter BS ?
I heard, from a source more reliable than a spotter, that it was just the aircraft that went to Switzerland because it was at a higher mod state, or had more airframe hours available, or something.

[Gainesy]

T'would never happen. Belslow anyone?:hmm:

[9arrow]

Same story came back from somebody who had a tour of Kemble recently.:confused:

[Razor61]

I was told last night by an "aircraft enthusiast" (spotter) that the MoD has leased back two Canberra PR9 aircraft from the new civil owners.
Any truth to this ? or is it just spotter BS ?

Sure he wasn't getting confused with the two Hunters being leased for MoD/RN work at Hurn?

[VFW49tpm]

I believe that we are in the process of buying Hercules K Mk 1 wings from a scrap dealer in Delaware who bought the complete frames from Lockheed who accepted them as trade in from - guess who? - for Js.

[MaxReheat]

Crikes, at this rate SEngos will be checking over Gate Guards to see if they can be returned to service.

[EODFelix]

PN, also the stabilator robbed from the Yeovilton museam (around 1990)for A&AEE's XT597

[ZH875]

Vulcan spares were obtained from the abandoned Vulcan at RAF Finningley in 1983.

Crikes, at this rate SEngos will be checking over Gate Guards to see if they can be returned to service.
I doubt if a SEngO would know what to look for, maybe the lowly techies could have a look!:bored:

[Glass Half Empty]

Remember a PR7 being u/s for weeks and each morning the tale of woe became more protracted. After an eternity OC Eng triumphantly announced at prayers that Eng Wing had found a solution to the problem. They had robbed a spare off the static at Duxford. Wow to be in a modern air force that needed a museum to bale it out of trouble!!!

[Dan Winterland]

Crikes, at this rate SEngos will be checking over Gate Guards to see if they can be returned to service.

Already been done. In the late 80s. after the Victor had been extended in it's service life several times, it transpired that the airframe with the lowest fatigue index was the gate guardian at Marham. Plans were made to get it back on line, but a couple of buildings would have to be demolished to get it out. So the plan was cancelled. It didn't stop it being robbed though - it was often seen with some major part missing.

And even more recently, the VC10s at Cosford and Brooklands would be missing a panel for a while!

[Tim McLelland]

The tale I heard was that one Canberra was likely to be used for an unfinished requirement for Ordnance Survey.

As for the Hunters, one of the pair is now flying in glorious RAF markings and camouflage, and from a distance (from where you can't see the company lettering and the Swiss mods) it looks like a flashback to the 1980's - ahhh!

Anyway, the concept of disposing of RAF aircraft and leasing them back is hardly new - remember those dear old Belfasts... Speaking of which, one aircraft is getting close to flying again down at Southend.

Some aircraft might die but they sure won't lay down without a fight!

[Jackonicko]

So where are the photos of this noo Hunter, Timbo?

[Tim McLelland]

I've only seen one photo so far but I'm sure it'll be photographed to the point of exhaustion before Christmas!

[Two's in]

At least one professional organization still understands the value of the Canberra - even if they did have to rename and renumber it.

http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/environment/crave.html

http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/49586main_wb_2.jpg

[Wholigan]

At least one professional organization still understands the value of the Canberra - even if they did have to rename and renumber it.

Errrrrr -- you forgot to mention " - and completely redesign it and rebuild it so that it actually looks nothing like a Canberra".
:}

[clicker]

Crikes, at this rate SEngos will be checking over Gate Guards to see if they can be returned to service.

That's already happened. The Spitfire that was Wattisham's gate guard has been back in the air for some time now. (EN210 from memory?)

[Tim McLelland]

Actually there's a second company somewhere in the States which operates other Canberras including a former RAE B6. There's also a couple of former Navy TT18's somewhere in the US.

[Valiantone]

The company in question has two and a half ex RAE Canberras Tim, the half an airframe being from the one that used to fly on the UK display circuit and was stripped for spares and its nose earlier this year.

For those that haven't seen the Hunter yet, It was in the circuit for 15 mins or more? at a certain airfield in Lincs on Tuesday:)

V1

[fantaman]

Just finished reading the excellent Vulcan 607 book by Roland White. In it he tells the story of how the RAF had to run around robbing refuelling probes for the Vulcans about to deploy to the South Atlantic. They even sent a Herc full of techies to the USAF museum at Castle AFB to rob the probe from the one that had been donated months earleir :ok:

[HS125]

I wouldn't dismiss this out of hand.

Civilian operation of an aircraft like this will neveer 'work' financially.

My thought is that a Civillian operator would be looking basically for a contribution to costs and the support fallout that they may get from an arrangement like this so I really dont find the idea supprising.

[fantaman]

Civilian operation of an aircraft like this will neveer 'work' financially.
What about the BAe Systems A-4 Skyhawk operations out of Wittmund in Germany? Retired military jets doing target tugs duties, there are a fair few companies doing the rounds today.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i165/martin4356/1057133.jpg

[ZH875]

Just finished reading the excellent Vulcan 607 book by Roland White. In it he tells the story of how the RAF had to run around robbing refuelling probes for the Vulcans about to deploy to the South Atlantic. They even sent a Herc full of techies to the USAF museum at Castle AFB to rob the probe from the one that had been donated months earleir :ok:
As far as I can remember, most Vulcans still had probes fitted at the time of the Falklands war, it was the 'Y' coupler from the refuelling probe, to the fuel pipes either side of the nose that were missing.

The Vulcan probes were robbed for the Hercules and Nimrod fleets.

[fantaman]

As far as I can remember, most Vulcans still had probes fitted at the time of the Falklands war, it was the 'Y' coupler from the refuelling probe, to the fuel pipes either side of the nose that were missing.

The Vulcan probes were robbed for the Hercules and Nimrod fleets.
In the book it say's they were robbed for the Vulcan as it had been so long since they were last used. Will have a look through the book later and post the details.

[Valiantone]

I think you will find ZH875 is correct not the book, why, because during Corporate the Hercs and Nimrod suddenly grew probes.

What else would they have come off?

V1

[fantaman]

I didn't say anyone was wrong, I was just stating what the book said :ok:

[Valiantone]

Fantaman, point taken.

Anyway does anyone on here know if the 2 ex FRADU Canberra TT.18s are still active in the USA?

Also the Northern Light guys in Canada and ATAC in the USA are happily operating Hunters, on contracts I'mnot sure how many and which ones however.

Although they are all ex Swiss jets.

V1

[Tim McLelland]

If it's any help, it's true that all the Vulcans had their refuelling probes still attached until Operation Corporate, although the refuelling system hadn't been used for ages. The Hercules and Nimrod probes did indeed come from Vulcans and various Vulcans began to appear without their probes, once they were "robbed" for other aircraft, and as far as I can recall, all the ones that had their probes removed never got them back whilst still in service. Obviously, it was only the small fleet of Black Buck Vulcans (without checking, I think it was six or seven aircraft in all)that had their refuelling system restored.

As for HS125's comments, I don't think it's even open to question that leasing civilian aircraft has worked, does work and will continue work. Clearly, it's much less expensive to simply lease small numbers of aircraft for specific tasks, rather than fund complete squadrons together with all of their logistical support. It's the inevitable way forward, be it good or bad!

[vfr into cloud]

A few years back,
All the old GR3 Harriers had to have there hot nozzles removed and sent to front line squadrons for use on in service GR7/9's.This doesn't sound too bad until you find out the GR3's had been out of service for 10 years by this time and most were on gate guard or in museams around the country.
My squadron had a GR3 gate guard that had not been serviced for 12 years the nozzles were, lets just say in not good nick.
I know the guy that took them off ,bit of a tool, :oh: but thats another story.
He said they had to remove them all as the RAF had run out and the yanks had bought all the stock of special alloys needed to make new ones and we cant have any.

sounds about right to me

who said the Air farse is in trouble then ,not me!!!:ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

[Jackonicko]

Valiantone

Which Canberra was that, then? Not '163, surely, and not the TT18?

[Tim McLelland]

Valiantone
Which Canberra was that, then? Not '163, surely, and not the TT18?No, he means the two ex-FRADU TT18's which I mentioned a few paragraphs back. I presume they're still flying but I don't know where.

[steamchicken]

Are they being used in their old role, if that isn't a beadwindow violation?

[SkyHawk-N]

No, he means the two ex-FRADU TT18's which I mentioned a few paragraphs back. I presume they're still flying but I don't know where.


Are they the ones at Mesa-Falcon Field, Phoenix?

33°27'39.00"N 111°43'57.45"W

http://www1.airliners.net/open.file/104846/M/

http://www.warbirdregistry.org/jetregistry/canberra-n76765.html

[Jackonicko]

Neither of those flew on the UK airshow circuit, Tim.

I suspect that he means an extra airframe used for spares by HAMM/Airpower Inc/Air Platforms Inc. at Lakeport, who operate two ex DERA raspberry ripple B6 Mods - XH567 and WT327.

I wonder whether he means another of the ex RAE/DERA aircraft - WT333, or most likely XH568.

[Beeayeate]

The 'half' Canberra that Air Platforms took was XH568 at Bruntingthorpe. Totally dismantled and shipped in March this year.

Jacko
. . . ex DERA raspberry ripple B6 Mods - XH567 and WT327

XH567 (http://www.bywat.co.uk/xh567.html) potted history.

WT327 (http://www.bywat.co.uk/wt327.html) potted history.

Note - WT327 is a B(I)8 Mod and WT333 (another B(I)8 Mod) is currently in taxiable condition at Brunty, taxies frequently in summer months.

:ok:

[sharmine]

[quote=Valiantone;3010370]I think you will find ZH875 is correct not the book, why, because during Corporate the Hercs and Nimrod suddenly grew probes.

What else would they have come off?

I seem to remember they came from Sea Vixens which at that time were in RAF training at Halton and various Museums. They were sufficiently long to do the task.

Sharmine:ok:

[ZH875]

ZH875 can remember the probes disappearing from various Vulcans around Waddington, and saw various probe spares on ASI with the F731's still attached from Waddington.

Maybe probes were scrounged from multiple locations.:)

[Tim McLelland]

Neither of those flew on the UK airshow circuit, Tim.


I don't think anyone ever said they did?!

He's talking about the two ex-FRADU TT18's which went to the States. Skyhawk's links show them - I note that one aircraft is described as "stored" so I guess this means they've probably both drifted into neglect - as usual.

[possel]

Crikes, at this rate SEngos will be checking over Gate Guards to see if they can be returned to service.

In 1991 when the Harrier GR5 was grounded (Kapton), 1(F) Sqn robbed the GR3 gate guard at Deci whilst on detachment with any aircraft they could find. I was quite surprised they didn't fly it home!

And I know that Vulcan probes went to the Nimrod fleet as someone at Scampton had one as a souvenir and had to bring it back smartish (quietly).

[Jackonicko]

No he wasn't referring to the TT18s, Tim, he was referring to the two RAE B6/8s operated by HAMM/Air Platforms/Air Power (WT327 and XH567). And to half of XH568.

"The company in question has two and a half ex RAE Canberras Tim, the half an airframe being from the one that used to fly on the UK display circuit and was stripped for spares and its nose earlier this year."