First armed AW-139

[Aser]

http://www.flyinginirelandmagazine.com/photo/albums/userpics/10021/normal_AW274-3.jpg
New choppers to boost anti-terror force
TWO new helicopters arriving in Baldonnel this month will boost Ireland's anti-terrorist Special Forces.
For the first time the highly trained secretive unit, the Army Ranger Wing, will have modern helicopters available to airlift them to any terrorist incident in the country.
The two Anglo-Italian helicopters will fly in from Italy, where Irish Air Corps crews have been training since July, as the first part of a €49m order for four utility helicopters signed by Defence Minister Willie O'Dea.
The high tech twin engined Agusta Westland AW139 helicopters, the first to be delivered to any military force worldwide, will have a variety of roles.
But training and operations with the elite Rangers will be a key priority.
Up to now they have had to rely on small Alouette 3 helicopters, some of them in service for four decades, for limited troop transport. The new AW-139 fleet, which will be able to carry 32 Rangers in one lift, will also be the first armed helicopters to serve with the Air Corps.
Each helicopter has a range of nearly 300 miles.
To fit in with the Special Forces role, the new helicopters will also have abseiling and fast roping systems allowing Rangers to quickly drop onto high-rise buildings, boats, trains, or buses for an assault. The aircraft will also have night-vision capability.
The first two helicopters are to fly in to the Air Corps base on November 21 with the remaining two AW-139s due in 2007.
However, so far no decision has been taken by the Department of Defence to take up options on buying two further AW-139s.

http://www.flyinginirelandmagazine.com/photo/albums/userpics/10021/normal_AW274and275.jpg


http://www.flyinginirelandmagazine.com/photo/albums/userpics/10001/normal_Irish274-2.jpg


more pics http://www.flyinginirelandmagazine.com/photo/thumbnails.php?album=11

[Watchoutbelow]

Not without incident, no doubt lazy media hype over nothing.

Irish Independant (http://www.unison.ie/irish_independe...issue_id=14931)
An Air Corps investigation was underway last night into an incident involving a helicopter from the new €50m fleet after an emergency landing in Cannes.
Two of the AW139 helicopters were on their way to Ireland from Italy when one of them flew into low cloud and had to land in France.
Both aircraft, the first two of a four aircraft order, were to have landed in Baldonnel on Tuesday to be met by military personnel.

[rotorboy]

Hmm, I dont htink this is the first armed 139. I was at Bell in 02 for some training and they had a 139 in USCG colors that was set up to be fully armed. It was pretty impressive. I liked the seats, oh what I would give for the seats!

RB

[Doors Off]

The last time I worked with the Irish Rangers they were all normal sized human beings, obviously they have changed their selection criteria. The only way you will fit "32 Rangers" inside an AW139 is if they are little bearded men carrying a black thorn stick and are from the rarely seen breed of Leprechaun's. :bored:

[Barndweller]

Stated that the fleet would be capable of carrying 32, not one airframe... That's eight a piece - which sounds about right for equipped combat troops in a 139.

[AB139engineer]

It has a wee gun, doesn't look too threating to me. Looks like need a weapons consultant.

[maxvne]

That has to be a joke ? low cloud so they made an emergency landing at cannes? I know they are relatively low time pilots in the Irish Aer Corps but with that aircraft surely a little low cloud wouldnt get in there way.
Also looks like they were taking the long way home going from Italy down to Cannes instead of up through Switzerland then into France.

[What Limits]

Don't forget that as Military aircraft, they may not have had Diplomatic Clearance to overfly Switzerland. And if you are not instrument rated............

[Sean H]

The pilots that flew the 139 to Irland are all high standard trained pilots with 1000's of hours on various types from S-61's and Dauphins and Gazalee and A111,EC-135 type helicopters. The route choosen was best for the crew.

[HillerBee]

It's simply not smart to try and overfly the Alps if not trained to do so, especially in a helicopter. So there's nothing strange about it at all.

[maxvne]

CVR I had a laugh at Sean H's post also more like a couple of hundred hours and I dont think you should mention the S61 flying a little bit of a fiasco for the Aer Corps lads, again down to a lack of experience

[Sean H]

I cant see whats so funny?
The crew i spoke with were all experienced heli pilots with alot more than just a couple hundred hours!

[mini]

Hey Guys,

Lets give Sean H a break here, the 139's are a big thing in his local. Just like your outfits first offshore 332's or whatever. Everything is relative - we can all be cynics...

They are by all accounts a fine machine and with regard to the comments about being lightly armed, you've obviously never been got out of a hole due to the covering fire of a GPMP...:E

[SoundByDesign]

Hey Guys,
Lets give Sean H a break here, the 139's are a big thing in his local. Just like your outfits first offshore 332's or whatever. Everything is relative - we can all be cynics...
They are by all accounts a fine machine and with regard to the comments about being lightly armed, you've obviously never been got out of a hole due to the covering fire of a GPMP...:E


GPMP surley a GPMG?

[Lunar]

I'm with Sean H, the Aer Corps guys had tens of hours, they told me so....:)

Considering the lack of kit they have had for years and the lack of funding, I would be very surprised if there are more than one or two Aer Corps pilots with more than a thousand hours heli time.

Does anyone have more info on the Emergency landing? Is this another inadvertent entry to IMC, like that time following Mrs. Clinton?

Having said that, it is great that they are finally getting the kit they need to do the job.

Lunar

[Langball]

Many of the people who are slagging off the Air Corps don’t know what they are talking about. Look at some facts:

1.The Irish Air Corps first started flying choppers back in the early 1960s. Up to the 1999 Dauphin crash in Waterford they never had a fatal crash (including all SAR operations). Name one other military organisation who can boast over 30 years of rotary flying without a fatality (I guess the answer is none).
2.Not only that, but up to that date they still operated every helicopter they ever bought (says something for the maintenance as well as the flying).
3.I’m sure some of you will be quick to point out the fact that the initial SAR was with a VFR Aloutte (onshore only). But you never heard of the two pilots who got distinguished flying medals : one winched a casualty off a cliff face (at night) while another Aloutte hovered close by using his landing light to assist operations. Over the years they completed 1000’s of SAR missions, and you can bet that not all were in summer conditions. So give them some credit.
4.The safety statistics have taken a bit of a hit in the last few years, I believe they have lost an Aloutte and Gazelle (each due to engine failure). But 3 aircraft lost, with one fatal accident, in combined military and SAR operations, is not bad.
5.The Air Corps have always been seen as a training establishment for Aer Lingus and Ryanair. This is why they had to put a 10 year ‘signing on’ period for qualified pilots. With the current boom in aviation you will find a mass exodus of pilots who have done the 10 years service. So I’m not surprised if there is a shortage of pilots with 1000’s of hours.
6.They’re not perfect, but a I’m sure that an unbiased analysis of the Air Corps helicopter pilots (and their fixed wing counterparts) would find they compare favourably with any other military establishment worldwide.

[Langball]

Sorry for you CVR. You haven't actually contributed anything to the debate, just mention of a rumour. There will always be 'spotters' like you around, we just have to ignore you.

[MBJ]

Routing via South of France would be pretty sensible from North Italy to Ireland. The direct route across Switzerland is high and jagged and very weather dependent.

..and why would you press on IFR, while you have the option of a night-stop in Cannes instead? Good decision, well made!:)

[Langball]

Thanks CVR, I've finally managed to figure out where you're coming from. To answer your question : YES, I have worked with them. I know several of them working in Aer Lingus, Ryanair, British Airways, City Jet, CHC, AAIU, etc. You’ll find them at the top level in several aviation organisations, so they must be doing something right. They never claim to be Top Gun material (if fact they are all flying civilian aircraft in military colours). But something never changes; you’ll always get someone on the other side of the fence who thinks he knows it all and believes he could do a better job. By the way : what is your gripe with the Air Corps?. Did you fail the aptitude test?.

[Aser]

http://eu.airliners.net/photos/photos/1/9/3/1150391.jpg
nice looking moving map.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1150391/L/

:ok:

[Lunar]

Unfortunately, that is what you get when you buy an 'A' model. They wanted to be launch customer of something, remember the S92 fiasco, may they have fun.

I suppose you don't have that problem CVR, how old is that S61?

Lunar

[Helipolarbear]

God Bles the Aer Corps, despite their handicaps with spanking new heli's and planks. I wonder what their incident / accident rate is per 100,000 hours of flying, especially the stuff you never hear about because it's become a state secret!!! If the pilot is reading this thread...... go on, tell us what the hullabaloo is over that lovely new piece of kit that you landed somewhere on the European Continent with, and was the Agusta pilot sworn to state secrecy? Why wasn't there a full AC crew compliment. Experience, concerns over performance and integrity of aircraft? Free ride to Irlande for a few scoops with the chaps at Bal?? :} Thats a funky looking Beret worn by the Flight Crew! Where is his helmet? Nice moving map indeed! A big 109, with even bigger headaches! Wait til the old spare parts line dry's up!!! Fly Safe Y'all!:ok:

[Darren999]

Having problems in the gulf with cracks in the tail booms. You can only see them from inside the tail section though. We have 4 down, with Augusta's here fixing them :ugh:
Am lead to believe after number 50 there were strengthened... lets hope so..:eek:

[Sandy Toad]

Apologies for thread drift!
Darren can you give hours of airfames with the cracks, location and how spotted please. We're approaching 300 hrs. PM if prefer as off main thread thrust. Thanks.

[Darren999]

Sandy,
Open the rear bagage hold, take out the rear panel. On the Co Pilots side there is a rear spar running at the top before it connects to the empanage section its cracking there, they are small cracks so take a torch. I apologise for the very vivid explanation. I will try and get some pics for you, If I can I will post them for you. By all accounts Augusta are aware of this problem and from number 55 onwards they are patching the aircarft before they leave the factory. Our's are getting a patch which gives you a further 50hrs. This repair requires a 337. There is a thought that it cracks near our CPI panel perhaps with airflow against it, causing vibration, again this is only a thought. To date 5 of ours need this patch on airframes from 300-800hrs. I'm sure there are people on here more quailfied to give you a better explaination. But I hope this helps. If you want the real answer contact Augusta I'm sure they will be able to assist
If you need further info please contact me, or PM.

Regards

[noooby]

Darren999, CPI has nothing to do with the cracking. Upper left tailboom attachment on all helicopters that have a counter clockwise main rotor, take most of the load from the tailrotor.
On the ground, they are under tension loads from the weight of the boom, and when flying they are also under tension loads from the tailrotor thrust. Have a look at a Bell 205/212/412 tailboom attachment (they are all the same). LH side has a solid wall in the rear fuse compartment, RH side only has a compression strut (compression forces are easier to fight against than tension forces). Bell 205/212/412 tailboom attachments use 3 different bolt diameters from memory, and the upper lefthand gets the biggest bolt, done to the highest torque loading. It's all about load paths.
Agusta have tried to simplify things by designing the boom around that upper lefthand corner, and then copying that bolt size/torque for the other 5 locations. One bolt length/diameter/torque, makes things much easier and quicker during maintenance. Unfortunately, the upper lefthand attachment doesn't seem to have as much strength as they thought, although personally, from looking at the structure in a few of these, I think that the build quality also has to be a factor. Holes are not drilled very well in some areas. Perhaps Agusta should tighten up on the quality of product coming out of PZL in Poland, where the fuselage and tailboom are produced.

[Darren999]

nooby- Thank you for that explaination. That also explains the CPI theroy and blows what I was told right out the water:ok: I will have at look at mine today, they only have another 2 139's to repair here.
Best regards