View Full Version : Red Arrows 132, Combat Aircrew 16.
Norman Nimrod
23rd Nov 2006, 01:16
Flying Hours per month that is.
Any truth in this one ??
Link Below.
www.theherald.co.uk/news/75013.shtml
A2QFI
23rd Nov 2006, 06:05
Maybe but if Hawks weren't flying airshows they wouldn't be doing anything operational anywhere East of Suez!
If the Reds website is correct they fly a max of 3 trips of 30 mins each day - how do they manage to accrue 132 hours per month at that rate?
Tombstone
23rd Nov 2006, 08:34
If the Reds website is correct they fly a max of 3 trips of 30 mins each day - how do they manage to accrue 132 hours per month at that rate?
They actually fly up to 6 slots per day depending on wx & requirements.
132 hours is way of the mark & stinks of half hearted journo research.
PPRuNeUser0211
23rd Nov 2006, 08:36
Surely someone should point out that this busts some kind of JSP regarding flying hours in a month (on leave so can't find the correct reference!)
22 working days in november.
132 divided by 22 = 6 hours a day... hmmm yeah... right... 6 hours a day... each? Methinks someone has picked up the wrong end of a stick somewhere and poked it in their eye!
Ewan Whosearmy
23rd Nov 2006, 10:17
132 hours is way of the mark & stinks of half hearted journo research.
As opposed to a half-hearted post by someone who can't be bothered to read the linked article.
Had you done so, you'd have seen him cite the source:
The figures emerged from parliamentary questions asked by Mike Hancock, LibDem MP for Portsmouth South, and were confirmed by Adam Ingram, the Armed Forces Minister.
If the figures are 'stinking and way off the mark' then I suggest you aim your remarks at Adam Ingram!
MrBernoulli
23rd Nov 2006, 10:31
Is that INDIVIDUAL hours a month ....... or TEAM hours a month?
A2QFI
23rd Nov 2006, 10:44
I don't think either figure makes sense. No individual pilot is flying 130 hours a month, I suggest. 130 'team hours' split nine ways is les than 15 hours a month - they must fly more than that. True figure is somewhere in between I guess.
Tombstone,
They don't all fly 6 slots a day. At this time of year, Synchro fly slots 1, 3 and 5 while the main section flies slots 2, 4 and 6. When they graduate to 9-ship practices early next year they will fly only 3 slots each day.
Megaton
23rd Nov 2006, 11:56
vm2 is absolutely correct. Three slots a day each (at best) which makes for 1.5 hrs per day, 7.5 hrs per week or 30 ish hrs per month. Given that weather, serviceability, visits, other commitments will all eat in to this figure, there is either some inaccurate reporting or wilful misinterpretation. IIRC each jet flies approx 250 hrs per year.
Presumably, someone else will now jump in and point out that this is actally poor use of the aircraft!
Tombstone
23rd Nov 2006, 13:41
Tombstone,
They don't all fly 6 slots a day. At this time of year, Synchro fly slots 1, 3 and 5 while the main section flies slots 2, 4 and 6. When they graduate to 9-ship practices early next year they will fly only 3 slots each day.
Thanks mate, I was being generic in my last post.
Ewan Whosearmy,
I'll add 'half hearted politician' to my previous post if that helps.
Ewan Whosearmy
23rd Nov 2006, 17:17
Ewan Whosearmy,
I'll add 'half hearted politician' to my previous post if that helps.
That's better. :}
FormerFlake
23rd Nov 2006, 21:44
vm2 is absolutely correct. Three slots a day each (at best) which makes for 1.5 hrs per day, 7.5 hrs per week or 30 ish hrs per month. Given that weather, serviceability, visits, other commitments will all eat in to this figure, there is either some inaccurate reporting or wilful misinterpretation. IIRC each jet flies approx 250 hrs per year.
Seemed more than that when they were at Craditz, noisey beggers. How were we supposed to sleep during Service Writing lessons?
Archimedes
23rd Nov 2006, 22:20
For what it's worth, the exact wording, from Hansard, 30th October 06 is:
Mr. Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what the monthly average for (a) flight training and (b) flight trainer hours was for Red Arrows pilots in the last year for which figures are available. [93340]
Mr. Ingram: In the period October 2005 to September 2006 the average monthly flight training hours and simulator training hours for the Red Arrows were 132 and three respectively.
Mike Hancock's next question, and the answer:
Mr. Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many flight training hours on average were flown per month during the last 12 months by pilots of (a) Tornado F-3, (b) GR variants, (c) Jaguar and (d) Harrier. [93211]
Mr. Ingram: In the period September 2005 to September 2006 training flying hours flown by front line fast jet pilots average as follows:
Tornado F-3 16.8 (Hours/pilot/month)
Tornado GR4 16.1
Jaguar 17.5
Harrier 16.1
vecvechookattack
24th Nov 2006, 01:07
Well, that seems to answer the question then. The Red Arrows (9 of 'em) claimed 132 hours whilst the remainder flew Circa 16 Hours per month.
I have to comment though that if the Tornado's Jags and Harriers pilots are only flying 16-17 hours a month then when are they going to give their flying pay back...??? You guys need to work harder. I'm averaging 28 Hrs a month this year....have already achieved 100 Hr night and Im getting fed up with bloody NVG training.
goldcup
24th Nov 2006, 04:15
Wow. You are my hero.
A2QFI
24th Nov 2006, 07:02
I have a feeling that Adam Ingram has been given duff gen by somebody, and passed it on the house. I flew my butt off at Valley one year in the early 60s and got 440 Gnat hours to show for it
I don't think that any current FJ pilots are happy with 16 hours a month - it is what they are given and flying pay SAFAIK, is paid for being qualified for a job, not for doing it. That is why it is paid during ground tours
tonkatechie
24th Nov 2006, 08:28
Quote from 'RAF Source' in Herald: "....a service which appears to put more effort into showboating than committing aircraft to the sharp end." It seems that if the RAF does something which someone finds questionable, the Service is to blame, but if something is done well, the only people to thank are the b:mad: y politicians. There was a piece on the news last night about the AT fleet being so old, few, and unreliable; which whilst to the more educated viewer was approaching being a dig at the government for more funds; would have been seen by your average Joe Public to be a comment on how crap we are.
Never mind how many hours the Reds are getting in - they're only 9 pilots out of god knows how many. Their aircraft wouldn't be of much use operationally. The big point is that everyone outside of the RAF seems to think that we can / should field a force that is actually much bigger than we have. Years of cutbacks are finally taking their toll:(
Twopack
24th Nov 2006, 08:43
I have to comment though that if the Tornado's Jags and Harriers pilots are only flying 16-17 hours a month then when are they going to give their flying pay back...??? You guys need to work harder. I'm averaging 28 Hrs a month this year....have already achieved 100 Hr night and Im getting fed up with bloody NVG training.
28 hours a month?? Lightweight.
Some guys on our fleet are averaging 60-70 a month right now. And no, it's not all sitting in the cruise; it's going on NVG into nasty places that you've probably never heard of.
I'd buck up if I were you mate, otherwise they'll take your flying pay away.