Raf Aircrew - Civvy Pilot

[Joe Black]

Evening all,

I'm currently serving in the RAF as an AEOp and am at a stage where I have decided I won't be spending my entire working life in the air force - my hope is to become an airline pilot or at the very least be involved in civil aviation.

I have not started my PPL yet and won't be able to until I return from OOA duties in 4 months and my intention will then be to do as much flying as possible at my local flying club. I would be extremely grateful for any advice from any one in a similar position....ie what books should I be reading just now ?- may sound lazy asking, but I'd like to hear it from people with experience.
Thanks
Joe:O

[maxdrypower]

One bit of advice I could give you matey if you are going through with doing a PPL . Check with Brize Norton Flying Club and any of the others to see hwta their prices currently are . I did my PPL when in the Arse farce at Brize in 1994 and it was £42 per hour on a PA28 it was the cheapest flying club in the UK at the time . I took all my leave and stayed in the mess for three weeks and finished it all in one go . This may save you quite a bit of money and stand you in good stead for the modular route

[Rob's Dad]

I'm in a similar position to you Joe, but slightly further downstream. Just finished the 14 ATPL theory exams and start CPL/IR flying in January.

The first thing I would say is do nothing about professional licences until you have a PPL. You may find you do not like it as much as you think you will: I know of people on integrated courses who have never flown in a light aircraft and it's a expensive gamble (circa £65k plus living costs) if you get it wrong. If you've got time on Det, then I recommend getting hold of the AFE PPL manuals by Jeremy Pratt - very easy to digest and help you get ahead of the game. But I would not go deeper than that at this stage.

If you have not chosen a PPL provider then absolutely use a RAF Club (http://www.procommercesolutions.co.uk/raffca/homepage/) - Akrotiri is dirt cheap I was paying £40 for a C172 out there! Plus you often get taught by RAF QFIs who I have found to have far more exacting standards than civvy clubs: this measn you learn excellent skills from the outset and hopefully save on resits later.

The next thing you should do is spend a few hundred £s getting a Class 1 Medical from the CAA: as serving aircrew you should sail through it, but best to make sure before you waste a considerable amount of money.

Then you have a tough decision to make. Either leave and do a fulltime course (integrated or modular) or do a modular course on top of your day-job. There are lots of threads on this - it comes down to personal choice, how you prefer to learn and your circumstances.

If you choose to go modular then can you qualify for ELC? If so, I would recommend arranging your training to ensure you maximise the 3 entitlements over 3 financial years. For instance, arrange ATPL theory one at the end of one FY, CPL towards the end of the next, and IR at the beginning of the 3rd. It's worked for me. You can also use SLC for exams etc (£60 a go for ATPL) and get just over £500 for resettlement as well.

Learning wise, leave it until you have your PPL then bone up on your maths and physics - nothing too difficult with the study, volume is the problem. Don't forget you will need to hour build if you go modular which will give you time to start studying from course books available via ebay (Oxford and Jeppesen regularly available and both very good). I found the EFTS maths and science books excellent for prep. The Met Sect at most of the flying units also do a good line in manuals.

Hope that helps, and best of luck.

RD

[A2QFI]

Can you not get a Class 1 Medical from an RAF SMO, for a fee, but not "hundreds"?

[Megaton]

I am fairly certain his first Class 1 will need to come from Gatwick.

The most important book to read is Clive Hughes "Guide to Becoming a Commercial Pilot." Absolutely invaluable.

http://shop.pilotwarehouse.co.uk/product18830023catno1770023.html

[matt_hooks]

The initial class one medical needs to be assessed at Gatwick.
Renewals can be assessed by any AME but they like to see you for the first one.

[small_dog]

I've met ex-RAF aircrew who, like A2QFI stated, got their most of their initial class one done with the Medical Officer on their base. In this case, not everything required could be covered by the Medical Officer so they paid a small charge and went to a civilian specialist to finish off the test (I think it was something to do with the eye examination).

[Megaton]

Pilots could have their initial with the SMO but everyone else goes to Gatwick.

[ATPLTrainee]

There´s a guy on my integrated course who came out of the RAF with an aircrew medical, apparently all he had to do was get Cranwell to send it to the CAA who approved it, all he had to do was pay a small donation charity.

[Megaton]

Your mate who came out of the RAF with an aircrew medical was probably a chopped pilot. See above.

[scroggs]

As an ex-RAF pilot I still had to do my initial Class 1 at CAA Gatwick as my SMO was not a CAA-ratified AME. If yours isn't, you'll have to go to Gatwick too - unless things have changed since I left.

What esle can you do? I assume you intend to take the modular route? In which case, you can select and sign up with a distance-learning ground school provider while you are OOA. That'll keep you quite busy enough. Read and inwardly digest the Archive thread at the top of the forum for more essential info.

Scroggs

[Megaton]

I went from PPL- CPL/IR whilst serving. Made full use of SLC/ELC as mentioned above. Also took every opportunity to jump in sims or aircraft. Filled my logbook with every kind of flying I could get my hands on. I also, rather fortunately ahem, was sent on a tour where I was not particularly busy giving me plenty of time for the exams. In short, I managed every aspect of my training to coincide with my exit date.

[FFP]

I'm a serving RAF pilot. Got my initial Class 1 through the med centre and renewed it there also, if that helps at all.

Good luck with it all.

[Joe Black]

Gents,

Thanks for all the replies I have had...all very helpful indeed. My intention is continue what I am doing in the Air Force for the next 2-3 years and start the modular route...as I am still gaining operational flying experience. What is the generic agreement on the best distance learning course to begin with?:ok:

[scroggs]

This (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=245260&highlight=distance) thread might help.

Scroggs

[A and C]

All the RAF flying clubs offer very good value for money and first class training, with prices starting at £61/hour (Cessna 152 at Benson) a change of career after the RAF becomes a real option.

With a bit of luck and a lot of hard work it is posable to get from SAC to jet airliner captain in about eight years.

[Joe Black]

Made a decision on what course of action I am going to take :
1.PPL theory(due to being in the sandpit for next 4 months!)
2.PPL and as many hours as I can clock up at my local flying club
3.Hopefully then move onto ATPL distance learning with BGS or Cranfield.
4.Hour building in the states
5.CPL/IR

Does anyone think this is realistic? I am not setting myself a specific time period due to my on-going time in the Air force but if I was guessing I'd go for 2-3 years.

For my PPL theory, where and what would be the best material to use for my study?

Thanks so far for all the vital feedback I've had.
Joe:ok:

[scroggs]

Please use the Private Flying forum for information about the Private Pilot's Licence.

Scroggs

[RCOV 2 ENG]

Hi there, I was just wondering what the airlines etc. would think of an RAF Flight Engineer, coming to apply to them to become a pilot?:confused:
Currently early 30's, and fully fit, I would be willing to go where there is any chance of sponsorship and eventually a job.
I do not have a PPL etc, but hold all necessary educational requirements.
Just checking possible changes of direction in my future?
Thanks in advance!
minzastella:ok:

[sicky]

Is it fair to assume that anyone in the RAF can benefit from learning to fly at these flying clubs?

[Rob's Dad]

As the RAFFCA site says "regardless of rank or trade". Link above.

[MVE]

I am on my last few days of line training with a regional carrier, about 5 years after starting down the road of RAF Flt Eng - Civvy Pilot. In my experience the FE bit on your CV means Sweet FA to the people reading the CV's because they haven't got a clue what an FE is!!!:ugh: Most of the peolpe reading the CV's are admin wallas with no clue what an FE is. At best I have found it an interesting talking point and no more! Zero to nil chance of sponsorship at your age and I would suggest you start saving those rates for a very long slog and lots of expense! Sorry to sound negative but the reality is the FE experience counts for very little and at your age you need to crack on, because on the modular route you are looking at 2 years time before being qualified.....Feel free to PM me for further info.....all the best :ok:

[Sphinx]

Had an RAF FE on my ground school course and subeaquently joined the same regional as me on TP's. The FE experience is valuale in terms of technical knowledge, the proven ability to understand the technical requirements of a type-rating course and the discipline and leadership skills gained in the mil.

However - and heres the kick in the nads - you have virtually no chance of sponsorhip to do the licences for two reasons:

1) There are very, VERY few sponsorship schemes about these days and they are are way over-subscribed. Further many are no more than a glorified loan they re-coup by paying you less until training costs are paid for anyway. Not wishing to start a debate on the merits of UK sponsorship schemes, so that is my opinion only.
2) They tend to look for people under 30. I don't know i that is legal any more given the age discrimination legislation, but it certainy was the way a few years ago.

My advice is to use as much as possible of your free time and money to enbark on the PPL. Then if you are due money when you leave the RAF invest it in the remaninder of your trianing. There are lots of ex-FE's who've done this, so why not ask them how they did it on the Mil forum which I am sure many still still read.

Bottom line is you will need to pay for the training yourself unless you are EXTREMELY lucky. But it is not anything like impossible, just requires prior preparation and planning to prevent piss poor performance.

Sphinx

[Whispering Giant]

Hey RCOV 2 ENG - anything is possible, I work for a large regional airline and our Fleet manager for the turboprop fleet is an ex FE. So don't give up.
Dont expect to get any form of sponsorship - airlines are only interested in giving sposorship to people in there early 20's to about 28 at max - all though you may be lucky - but before you apply for a sponsorship they would expect you to have at least a PPL with about 100-150 hours and maybe a IMC or night rating as well.

hope this help's if you want any more onfo then let me know.

brgds
W.G

[will fly for food 06]

Can you not get a Class 1 Medical from an RAF SMO, for a fee, but not "hundreds"?


i am at my docs, pm me for location,
i too am jumping from the raf to civvy world

[will fly for food 06]

The initial class one medical needs to be assessed at Gatwick.
Renewals can be assessed by any AME but they like to see you for the first one.
gatwick told me i could do mine with my raf doc and im booked in next week,

[happy eater]

Hi Joe I'm in almost the same situation.
I'm an AEOp and currently fighting towards my CPL. First thing first, I completed my PPL quite cheaply at Kinloss about 3 years ago using an ELC. There not actually the cheapest, and I've found Waddington to be a whole lot cheaper (about £65 and Hour with instruction).
Next stage will be to get the ground studies out of the way. I decided to Distance Learn with Bristol GS in two parts. On the whole I've been impressed with their course structure and relatively cheap cost. Be prepared to hand over a fair wad of dosh to the CAA for the exams though!
I' doing my CPL, IR ME with Air Atlantic at Coventry but I've also heard Airways Flt Trg at Exeter are also good.
Hope this can be of help
Regards
H E

[will fly for food 06]

How did u find Bristol GS?