Don't shop at Harrods!

[Lou Scannon]

You may have read that Harrods have refused entry to an army officer because he was in uniform when he tried to shop after the Rememberance Parade in London.

This action fills me with disgust for the place and I will be doing my best to let as many ex-servicemen as possible know how a major London establishment and its proprietor regards the Armed Forces of this country.

[movadinkampa747]

Dont shop at Harrods? Oh no does that mean I will have to endure the likes of Kwiksave and Lidl in future?
Do Kwiksave stock strawberry conserve with Champagne or Marc de Champagne truffles? and does the wines department have a 2004 Chateau de Prieure des Morgues or a 2004 Bourgogne Pinot Noir Domaine Voillot? Probably not.

[FFP]

and does the wines department have a 2004 Chateau de Prieure des Morgues or a 2004 Bourgogne Pinot Noir Domaine Voillot? Probably not.
Find that stuff off Google did ya Mova ;)

[dodgysootie]

First heard of this on E-goat, digusting. Is it perhaps that Mr Fayed is trying to hit back because he has been refused British citizenship? I for one certainly wont be shopping in Harrods again.

[Training Risky]

Hark!

Is that the sound of a British passport biting the dust?!

Best look in your Christmas stocking in case Santa brings you one, Fayed (or in your 'Festival of Edd' dishdash if you prefer)

:mad: :mad:

(Edited to add: Mova = knob)

[Melchett01]

Originally Posted by FFP
Find that stuff off Google did ya Mova

No. Harrods sell it in their hampers. Keep up.
Dont you have a hamper for the festive period? No? How utterly common.

You buy your hampers from Harrods Mova? Yes? How utterly common :E

If you had any class, you'd realise that Fortnum's range is far superior - I just don't know what I'd do without a bottle of Chateau Mouton Rothschild to see me through my Christmas lunch with some duck, venison and pheasant pie all washed down with a magnum of 1er Cru Classé Pauillac 1988 for supper on Boxing Day!:ok:

[sirsaltyhelmet]

Hark!

(Edited to add: Mova = knob)

That isnt fair on knobs TR

[dinoorin]

Whats wrong with a worthy's?
I think it even comes in the ASDA hamper - along with some quality CAVA.

POSH me - most definitely

[airborne_artist]

I worked in Horrids one Christmas/New Year as a temp handyman. Got to know the in-store security quite well, and one day one of the girl store-detectives came up to me and asked me to watch a chap who they knew was running a shop-lifting team that was in the men's department that moment. I shuffled along pretending to check things, and then he started to move to an outside door. She signalled for me to stop him, so I chased him down Walton Street until I caught him and held him until Plod arrived.

He was out on license for armed robbery. No-one in Horrids thanked me apart from the security girl - go figure :=

[Flatus Veteranus]

Noted. Not that the sudden withdrawal of my custom will make a big hole in Harrods's balance sheet. I will stick with my usual bottles of Kiwi Juice from Tesco's. Its better than the French crap anyway!

[stickmonkeytamer]

I've got a Harrods account, just so I can show my account card and use the £1.00-a-go toilets for free- no, I'm not in the Royal Navy...

SMT

[FFP]

No. Harrods sell it in their hampers. Keep up.:rolleyes:
Dont you have a hamper for the festive period? No? How utterly common.:suspect:

Never buy a hamper. Always at my winter retreat in Canada ...;)

[con-pilot]

I've got a Harrods account, just so I can show my account card and use the £1.00-a-go toilets for free- no, I'm not in the Royal Navy...
SMT


Have they started that crap again? Last time I was there the toilet by the 'Greenman's' Pub in the basement was free.

[SamCaine]

Have they started that crap again?

Good pun :p

[con-pilot]

Thanks, I try, god knows I try.:E

[pr00ne]

Er, on exactly WHAT grounds did they deny entry on?

[AC Ovee]

Errm, I believe it was on the grounds that it was their grounds.

[lancs]

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2976311&postcount=20

Apparently:

it may offend or overwhelm the customers to see a military uniform

[Melchett01]

Well lets be honest, it is hardly surprising that they did this is it. Didn't they lose their Royal Warrants a few years ago?

Would have been interesting to see what would have happened if any of HRHs who were also in uniform on Remembrance Sunday popped in - what would have happened then I wonder? I would also be interested to know who exactly denied the Lt entry - was it one of their customer service types or one of their uniformed security types? Would be rather a turn up if it had been uniformed security that denied him entry.

Incidentally, is it just me or has Mova deleted one of his earlier posts or am I just imagining it?

[lancs]

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=417249&in_page_id=1770

According to this always honest paper, it was a security guard.

[Codger]

Ah, computers. They can make things so easy every now and again. Just highlight a few lines on the approved suppliers list and tap gently on the "delete" key. Ah, that felt good.

[GPMG]

Last time I went to Harrods I was pretty disappointed to be honest. First few visits were interesting but it is merely a tourist attraction. Apart from taking money from foreign tourists it's just so people from Essex can sit on the district line tube train with a Harrods bag and feel superior to their neighbour.

[Navaleye]

I stopped shopping at Harrods when Al-Fayed bought it and I returned my charge card. I have not been back since.

[keithl]

It's "Tommy this" and "Tommy that"
And "Throw 'im out, the brute!"
But it's "Thank you Mister Atkins"
When the guns begin to shoot.

[Tombstone]

I've just ordered the wife outside into the garden to carry out a ceremonial burning of her Harrods bag.

Harrods is dead, long live Sainsbury's!

[airborne_artist]

One of the first ambulances on the scene when the IRA bombed Harrods on Sat 17th Dec 83 was from Knightsbridge barracks. The duty driver heard the blast, grabbed the keys and took his forward control LR ambulance straight there. He was loaded up, and then set off for a hospital. The closest A+E was Westminster, but by mistake, or not even knowing of the Westminster, he found his way to the more prominent A+E at St Thomas', where AA was on attachment for his combat medic course.

All four were badly wounded, but made it, and Maggie visited later that evening to thank the staff.

Westminster A+E was totally overloaded by the influx of wounded from the bomb, and a consultant at St T's told me the following morning that at least one person probably lived because they were taken to the less busy St. Ts.

Didn't hear Harrods complain then about men in uniform.

[Evanelpus]

Always get the 'other half' a Harrods bear for Christmas, it's become a tradition.

When I was in the store the other week, I had the misfortune to see the Diana and Dodi 'tribute'. I thought it was so tacky.

[tonkatechie]

It's kind of ironic that in a thread where everyone is unanimous in their disgust towards that store, we're bombarded with a load of Google ads for...Harrods.
I'm glad I can't afford to buy any of their tat.

[Had Enough 77]

Evanelplus, i could not agree more, that 'shrine' has to be one of the tasteless things i have ever seen.:mad: kin al-fayed, what a c**k.

Mind you on a plus point just got the in-laws to cancel their 10k furniture order, result.:D

[vecvechookattack]

Don't shop at Harrods.....LOL. Thats gotta be the funniest thread I've seen on here for a while. A bit like the advice from Deliah when wondering whar to do with left over wine. Her advice was to freeze it and use it in stocks and sauces....

My question... "Left over wine"...????? HELLO !

[BEagle]

It shouldn't take much planning amongst the few military folk left in London to arrange a simultaneous entry by a dozen or so folk in uniform one would have thought. Particularly if a few more in civvies were to announce loudly "If they can't come in, then neither will we!"

And then tie the assistants up with lots of questions, etc, so that they can't serve anyone else.

One hears that Rod's is a bit tacky these days - "Stack 'em high and sell 'em cheap" being the order of the day.

The Knightsbridge souk should hang its head in shame. This won't have made Al F's application for a British passport any easier.

What a pity.....

Oh - and if you go to www.harrods.com, you can leave a message at the 'contact us' page...

That's chav Burberry on their home page, isn't it?

[Wyler]

Mate of mine fell on hard times whilst at Peterhead so his wife got a job in a food packing factory in the town. One night they were doing Pickled Herrings that were destined for Safeways. The next night they did the very same, but added one dried Bay Leaf. Those were destined for Fortnum & Masons!

Bloody expensive Bay Leaf.

One was also turfed out of Harrods for wearing jeans.:{

[Mr-AEO]

Leave a message on the harrods webite?

Are you suggesting a D.O.S attack?:E

[Rigex]

- took BEagle's advice and let my feelings be known, got this reply:

Dear .....(name deleted to protect the innocent)

I write further to your e mail relating to press coverage of the recent incident when Lieutenant Lenherr was stopped from entering the store because he was wearing a military uniform.

First of all I must apologise for the distress these reports may have caused. We are similarly upset at the level of criticism we have received, because many of Harrods employees are ex-service men and women and only the day before we had conducted our own remembrance service at the store’s permanent memorial to the many hundreds of Harrodians who lost their lives in the two world wars.
We do not deny that the incident took place, nor that the situation could have been handled more sensitively, albeit I would like to take the opportunity to explain the background.

Harrods does indeed have an entrance policy relating to various forms of attire. This policy has been altered over the years in line with the cultural climate and also, of course, to meet the specific requirements of our customers.

There is a historical precedent in place which relates specifically to those wearing uniforms - the main reason for which is that certain customers can be alarmed by the sight of uniforms - assuming that there is some sort of incident going on.

In conclusion, whilst we understand from the authorities that uniformed military personnel are discouraged from wearing their uniform other than at their place of work and in transit to and from work – we appreciate that on this occasion the security officer followed the guidelines to the letter rather than using his discretion or seeking advice.

All of that said, the level of interest in this story has led us to take a closer look at the policy and we will certainly remind our security officers to act more sensitively in the future.
Thank you for taking the time and trouble to bring your views to our attention.
Yours sincerely


Laurence Williams
Manager
Customer Services

I do still wonder what sort of person "can be alarmed by the sight of uniforms", in my experience they usually reassure (apart from when I'm indulging in a bit of excess speed).

[rudekid]

Seems like a considered response to me. I might not agree with it, but at least they've considered the alternatives.

[toddbabe]

I know it was rememerance sunday, but that apart you wouldn't catch me anywhere near london or any other big city dressed in my uniform.
I can remeber with great clarity the horrors the IRA inflicted on the military in the 70s,80,s and 90,s Terrorism will kill you, don't advertise to the idiot extremists what you do for a living unless you want to become a target.
We used to be taught/ told not to wear,display or have any outward signs of our military jobs whilst off duty, now it seems encouraged again to wear it in public!
I know the officer was probably on official duty, but not in Harrods after he wasn't.
If the IRA could do it then I am damn sure Al q or its followers would love to also.

[Wrathmonk]

Jeans are also considered unacceptable.

Wonder what there policy is over veils ...?:E

[QFIhawkman]

I know it was rememerance sunday, but that apart you wouldn't catch me anywhere near london or any other big city dressed in my uniform.
I can remeber with great clarity the horrors the IRA inflicted on the military in the 70s,80,s and 90,s Terrorism will kill you, don't advertise to the idiot extremists what you do for a living unless you want to become a target.
We used to be taught/ told not to wear,display or have any outward signs of our military jobs whilst off duty, now it seems encouraged again to wear it in public!
I know the officer was probably on official duty, but not in Harrods after he wasn't.
If the IRA could do it then I am damn sure Al q or its followers would love to also.

Generally, I'd agree with you.
But if we can't walk around our capital city in Number 1's on Armistice day, then well the hell can we? I would argue that on Remembrance Sunday, hundreds (If not thousands) of Number 1 attired members of the armed forces are no target for terrorism, in fact I'd say it flies in the face of terrorism. Here is ONE DAY that we are claiming as our own. It sends out a message to the British Public. We are here amongst you. The public should (and are, see below, para 3) be behind us.

The days of being targetted by the IRA purely for being in the forces are long gone. Nowadays, all British subjects are targets, just for being British, so there is where your argument falls down.

I was out on remembrance Sunday in my number 1's, coincedentally in the Capital City. I wore my war medals with pride. I was asked about my medals and service by the public in whose bars I drank. They were interested. I did not pay for a drink past 1700 hrs. They were without doubt, and still are, behind our forces every step of the way, and wish they saw us more than once a year, regardless of their stance on Iraq, the Government, or whatever.

Toddbabe: We are still discouraged from wearing uniform in a public place. All I say is.... Maybe the public don't see that as such a good policy. And I for one would say that it isn't.

[Talking Radalt]

.
We used to be taught/ told not to wear,display or have any outward signs of our military jobs whilst off duty, now it seems encouraged again to wear it in public!

Toddy, the difference is whilst the IRA actively targetted military/Govt establishments and their staff, Al Q and all their little wizards target a much wider group....the general public. I doubt very much if a serviceman in uniform would attract any more or less venom from genuine extremists than say, a passenger on a tube train.

[QFIhawkman]

Toddy, the difference is whilst the IRA actively targetted military/Govt establishments and their staff, Al Q and all their little wizards target a much wider group....the general public. I doubt very much if a serviceman in uniform would attract any more or less venom from genuine extremists than say, a passenger on a tube train.

Erm.... I think that was my point TR.

[toddbabe]

Agree wholeheartedly with you both, but for me it's a risk not worth taking no matter how small.
Armistice day is our own and I agree that Uniform should be worn with pride on that day without fear or worry, but London is a different kettle of fish, whilst the tactics of extremism differ from the IRAs, Wandering about in the Capital in uniform away from the Parade and ceremony is asking for trouble.
Walking about London in any clothes is trouble in London!
Maybe am being over cautious but but have been indoctinated to be cautious when outside of work in my uniform and I for one avoid it at all costs.
You can still show your support for those that went before us without getting dressed up and making yourself a target.
Don't get me wrong think Harrods was well out of order and we shouldn't have to think about these things but unfortunately this is the world we live in and have helped create.

[Top Right]

QFIH,
I was surprised by your comment that we are discouraged from wearing uniform in public. I recall word coming down from CDS about 5/6 years ago that we could now go to public places without covering up. Indeed, it's not been unusual to see RAF guys from HQ STC in uniform around the High Wycombe town centre. So has this changed and we're being discouraged again?

Sad times if this is so, since our visibility to the public will wane even more. I hope it's easier for you front-end guys as people can probably figure out what the brevet means, but for we others there's no end of mistaken identity, be it policeman, RAC or securicor. Now maybe someone could stop painting the new RAF logo/brand on those Pumas and divert the money into similar named flashes for our uniform ........... (awaiting incoming).

And as for the security issue of wearing uniform in public, the threat today appears indiscriminate whereas the IRA one was deliberate, targeted and planned. Sorry Toddbabe, but it didn't matter what precautions you took, if the IRA wanted to get you, they would. They appeared professional, though I'm not an expert. Oct 89, Wildenrath: Cpl Mick Islania in civvies, left-hand drive car, off base. He took 2 rounds in the neck and his 6-month daughter took one through the head, as the killers came out of the bushes with the AKs. Every rendition of "Nimrod" still brings back the images of that white coffin in the 60 Sqn Hangar. (Admittedly the IRA did get it wrong 6 months later in Holland with the 2 Oz tourists gunned down in broad daylight, but they'd hit 4 x RAF Regt in '88 in the same town fairly easily).

Let's wear our uniforms, in Harrods, in Tescos, wherever.

[Talking Radalt]

Erm.... I think that was my point TR.

I promise to type quicker in future. :(

[QFIhawkman]

QFIH,
I was surprised by your comment that we are discouraged from wearing uniform in public. I recall word coming down from CDS about 5/6 years ago that we could now go to public places without covering up. Indeed, it's not been unusual to see RAF guys from HQ STC in uniform around the High Wycombe town centre. So has this changed and we're being discouraged again?

Sad times if this is so, since our visibility to the public will wane even more. I hope it's easier for you front-end guys as people can probably figure out what the brevet means, but for we others there's no end of mistaken identity, be it policeman, RAC or securicor. Now maybe someone could stop painting the new RAF logo/brand on those Pumas and divert the money into similar named flashes for our uniform ........... (awaiting incoming).

And as for the security issue of wearing uniform in public, the threat today appears indiscriminate whereas the IRA one was deliberate, targeted and planned. Sorry Toddbabe, but it didn't matter what precautions you took, if the IRA wanted to get you, they would. They appeared professional, though I'm not an expert. Oct 89, Wildenrath: Cpl Mick Islania in civvies, left-hand drive car, off base. He took 2 rounds in the neck and his 6-month daughter took one through the head, as the killers came out of the bushes with the AKs. Every rendition of "Nimrod" still brings back the images of that white coffin in the 60 Sqn Hangar. (Admittedly the IRA did get it wrong 6 months later in Holland with the 2 Oz tourists gunned down in broad daylight, but they'd hit 4 x RAF Regt in '88 in the same town fairly easily).

Let's wear our uniforms, in Harrods, in Tescos, wherever.

I agree with you fully. Good points well made, better than I was making them anyway, that much is clear. You've summed up what I thought.

Talking Radalt: Apology accepted! To save double posting, would you like to reply to top right? I'll abstain from now on on this thread to give you a chance! :cool:

[Talking Radalt]

QFIH,
Now maybe someone could stop painting the new RAF logo/brand on those Pumas and divert the money into similar named flashes for our uniform ...........
Where have you been?!! In amongst the carry-on of finding enough CBA to go round, receiving a lecture from a 19-year old SAC Med Asst about why one should wash one's hands after having a poo, getting yet more vaccinations and ensuring everyone was current for the dunker before deploying to the desert, some of us also got a right telling off from the SWO for not stitching the all new Royal Air Force "flash" on the upper arm of our desert DPM (like a little scrap of stable belt that says "Don't bollock me, I'm not Army") and the wordage "Royal Air Force" across the top left (or was it right?) pocket.

[Top Right]

To a fellow TR,
Can't disagree your point ref DPMs be they desert or temperate. My point (sorry - not clear enough) related to our RAC-lookalike blue stuff that we tend to wear in view of our own public.
TR

[PPRuNeUser0211]

Brevet is no assurance them civvie types will know what you do! Got stopped by a salesman at a motorway service station whilst in 1's trying to sell me some piece of tat or other. Came to the end of the conversation and he asked "so what is it you do then?" and genuinely had no idea I was in the military at all....

As for not shopping at harrods, family instructed (not a drama as mrs target already a f&ms hamper kinda gal)

[QFIhawkman]

Brevet is no assurance them civvie types will know what you do! Got stopped by a salesman at a motorway service station whilst in 1's trying to sell me some piece of tat or other. Came to the end of the conversation and he asked "so what is it you do then?" and genuinely had no idea I was in the military at all....


But whose fault is that? If our public never see their forces in uniform in the UK, then they're not going to have a clue what our uniforms look like. All they are used to seeing is the DPMs on the news.
All this started with the PIRA campaign against the forces in the 80's, and unfortunately our identity hasn't recovered since.

[anotherthing]

to be fair though,

The RAF uniform is a bit non descript.

[Tigs2]

Why not have a Fri evening in Dec, when anyone who can make it in the locality, pitches up in uniform for a quick sharpner in london (i know a pub that would love to oblige) then we all go to Harrods for shopping (press are primed), when we eventually get turned away, the press rip s**t out of Al Fayed and Harrods, and we all go back to the pub and get p****d. If we dont get turned away, we go shopping, and buy nothing, win one over for the boys and girls, and then still go back to the pub and get p****d:ok:

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!]

When Harrods wrote their reply containing the statementThere is a historical precedent in place which relates specifically to those wearing uniforms - the main reason for which is that certain customers can be alarmed by the sight of uniforms - assuming that there is some sort of incident going on.
did they overlook the possibility that their security guard might have been wearing ... a uniform?

[Top Right]

Anotherthing does make a good point. Perhaps we should hire some consultants for an image review of our uniform, to look for something with a more demonstrative branding? NEXT stole the Roundel (can I be done for libel by saying that?) so maybe they could help? Or maybe silk scarves would just be a lot cheapr ......

[QFIhawkman]

Anotherthing does make a good point. Perhaps we should hire some consultants for an image review of our uniform, to look for something with a more demonstrative branding? NEXT stole the Roundel (can I be done for libel by saying that?) so maybe they could help? Or maybe silk scarves would just be a lot cheapr ......

Didn't know that NEXT had stolen the roundel. I know that Lambretta and Ben Sherman have though, it's plastered all over their clothing!

Anyway, I think you'll find that we have natty little roundels on our socks nowadays.... Perhaps we should hitch up our trouser legs and show people our socks whenever there's any doubt?
But then I suppose people might think that we're:
a) Being very "yoof" and trendy by wearing Lambretta socks, or:
b) Doing a "Monty Python" style Freemason impression.

We can't win!

[Mystic Greg]

Harrods has not always banned uniforms. As a University Cadet on ULAS, whose Town HQ is a short walk from Harrods, we used to provide a Guard of Honour for the University Chancellor (the Princess Royal) at the graduation ceremonies a couple of times a year. Parade over, we would return to the THQ to demolish a barrel of beer and then walk down the road - in No 1s - for afternoon tea at Harrods: the deal was 'all you can eat' for the fixed price (at £4.50 this dates me somewhat). There were no problems with the uniforms and Harrods's staff (and other customers) always seemed to tolerate us!

Happy days. That said, I have not bought anything from Harrods, even though I live fairly close to it, since it was bought by Mr Fayed: I don't wish him the trauma he has suffered in losing his son, but I have always thought him a rather dodgy character who does not deserve my business.

[toddbabe]

"but they'd hit 4 x RAF Regt in '88 in the same town fairly easily".
Top right they hit the rocks in Roermond because they found them asleep in the back of a car after a night out, what gave them away? their uniform draped over the back seat of the car they were sleeping in, totally random and opportunistic.

[Talking Radalt]

the main reason for which is that certain customers can be alarmed by the sight of uniforms
I tend to find the only people who are alarmed by the presence of uniforms are in actual fact more alarmed by the authority they represent.
Must admit, I once knew a delighful young lass who signed up with the Met, and upon visting her at Hendon one weekend, arriving to the sight of her and her three room mates in smartly pressed police-totty uniform well, yeah it was kind of intimidating :O
They're not called the Filth for nothing. :E

[Flatus Veteranus]

.
Don't get me wrong think Harrods was well out of order and we shouldn't have to think about these things but unfortunately this is the world we live in and have helped create.

Please tell me in what way we (including me!) have "helped to create the world we live in". In the context of this thread, the world includes suicidal and indiscriminate terrorists. I refuse to put my hand up to that, and find your aspersion offensive.

[toddbabe]

Not trying to offend anyone, but it is quite simple really, because of our foreign policy and our "Special" relationship with America we have made ourselves more of a target for the extremists.
Has their been a problem in France with extremist Terrorism? Germany? Holland? Italy ? if there has it has been on a much smaller scale.
It is widely regarded as a major factor as to why we are such targets for terror.
It's about time we started putting our own people first and stopped sticking our noses in America's problems, we aren't a superpower and haven't been since the end of the Second World war, we should stop trying to be the worlds policemen and take a step or two away from America's influence.
This Nation used to be Great in it's own right, now it is seen as America's puppy and it's about time it stopped, if we want to live free from Terror we should stop starting wars in Extremist country's for no bloody reason

[QFIhawkman]

Not trying to offend anyone, but it is quite simple really, because of our foreign policy and our "Special" relationship with America we have made ourselves more of a target for the extremists.
Has their been a problem in France with extremist Terrorism? Germany? Holland? Italy ? if there has it has been on a much smaller scale.
It is widely regarded as a major factor as to why we are such targets for terror.
It's about time we started putting our own people first and stopped sticking our noses in America's problems, we aren't a superpower and haven't been since the end of the Second World war, we should stop trying to be the worlds policemen and take a step or two away from America's influence.
This Nation used to be Great in it's own right, now it is seen as America's puppy and it's about time it stopped, if we want to live free from Terror we should stop starting wars in Extremist country's for no bloody reason

We didn't start a war in an extremist country. And it wasn't for "No bloody reason". We don't "Stick our noses" into American problems (I.e. American domestic policy), but Okay we do have a say in US foreign policy.

The reason we are more of a target than Germany, France, Holland, Italy etc is because we stand shoulder to shoulder with the US I'll grant you that.
The difference though, is that we're the only country who stands alongside the US. The others seem to be absent right now.

Now I'm no fan of the US. In fact I hate Americans. But it seems that the UK is the only nation that has supported the US full time since the whole thing started.

I'm pretty sure that you would be the first person to write to the tabloids if you ever saw the headline "UK snubs US". So what is the UK to do? Yes we could declare full independance from the USA.

And where would we go from there?

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!]

Now I'm no fan of the US. In fact I hate Americans. You shouldn't really. They're just people like everyone else. They've made me very welcome here, some I like and some I don't, just like any other group really.
But it seems that the UK is the only nation that has supported the US full time since the whole thing started. Perhaps, though I sometimes wonder why. I'm not sure anyone here realises there are any other militaries involved. You'll see "I Support Our Troops" stickers on cars everywhere but I've never seen one that says "I support ALL the Troops" :*


Did I just contradict myself?

[Mal Drop]

A while back in Harrods I had a nice chat with a doorman who was wearing three of the same ribbons on his jacket that I had on my No. 1 tunic. All quite affable as I recall.

I'm getting my hamper from Farepak this year, and really looking forward to it!

[toddbabe]

We didn't start a war in an extremist country. And it wasn't for "No bloody reason". We don't "Stick our noses" into American problems (I.e. American domestic policy), but Okay we do have a say in US foreign policy.

The reason we are more of a target than Germany, France, Holland, Italy etc is because we stand shoulder to shoulder with the US I'll grant you that.
The difference though, is that we're the only country who stands alongside the US. The others seem to be absent right now.

Now I'm no fan of the US. In fact I hate Americans. But it seems that the UK is the only nation that has supported the US full time since the whole thing started.

I'm pretty sure that you would be the first person to write to the tabloids if you ever saw the headline "UK snubs US". So what is the UK to do? Yes we could declare full independance from the USA.

And where would we go from there?


You have answered all my questions for me!
Who started the war then if not us and America?
What reason do you think we went to war for ? weapons of mass destruction :confused: hmmm let me think about that one?
Iraq's involvement in 9/11:confused: hmm!
Terror camps in Afghanistan, yes but why were they set up and why were they targetting us?
Heroin production is up, so that can't be what we are doing there?
Removal of a dictator? plenty of them still knocking around the world (none oil rich countries) some of them in past emperial and commonwealth countries that deserve better from us.

You are kidding yourself if you think we have even the remotest say in America's foreign policy ( they didn't even tell us they were striking in Iraq after 9/11 till it happened )
Yes we stand shoulder to shoulder and now we are paying the terror price shoulder to shoulder.
I for one would applaud a Government that made it's own foreign policy decisions and stuck by them regardless of what America did, sometimes we need to be more selfish and say no, do you think we would be involved on this scale if America wasn't involved? Where was America when we were getting bombed to **** by the IRA every weekend?

[tonkatechie]

......do you think we would be involved on this scale if America wasn't involved? Where was America when we were getting bombed to **** by the IRA every weekend?
Whilst I don't agree with everything else you've said (I've shortened the full text of the quote) the last point you made has been something I've often pondered over. Granted, 9/11 was unquestionably a massive attack, but it always seemed strange that after one attack, the US government starts calling on NATO Articles (17?) for other NATO countries to come to it's defence, yet we had decades of getting bombed and shot at with little or no help other than the political brokering from Clinton. No doubt more learned members of Pprune will point out several faults in my point, but it can't surely fall down to the fact that the UK government never asked for help, so we didn't get it?

[QFIhawkman]

Does anyone else find it rather spooky that, considering the title of this thread, there are suddenly adverts for Harrods all over people's posts? (See last page).

[tonkatechie]

Does anyone else find it rather spooky that, considering the title of this thread, there are suddenly adverts for Harrods all over people's posts? (See last page).
Yes, I do/did. (See this thread, #28)

[GANNET FAN]

I've got a Harrods account, just so I can show my account card and use the £1.00-a-go toilets for free- no, I'm not in the Royal Navy...

SMT

SMT, me and the missus went to buy a surround system and TV, bloody pricey, missus gets out the Harrods account card...refused...upstairs to the 5th floor, got past the jobsworth who hadn't a clue, eventually got the manager, very surly and couldn't care less, explained the card was refused, yes its cancelled, she said, why?? because you haven't used it for 2 years. OK but why didn't you send a reminder like other proper stores do.......and so on and so forth. Mrs.Fan in full flow is a sight to see. Intransigent, impolite, hacked off (and I had to pay!!) very severe letter to that vertically challenged owner and will never set foot in the place again. That simple

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!]

yet we had decades of getting bombed and shot at with little or no help other than the political brokering from Clinton.I would venture to say it was worse than that, though I could well be wrong. My understanding is that the IRA were to a large part funded by contributions taken openly in the pubs and clubs of American cities.

[tonkatechie]

I would venture to say it was worse than that, though I could well be wrong. My understanding is that the IRA were to a large part funded by contributions taken openly in the pubs and clubs of American cities.
Of course...one mans terrorist is anothers freedom fighter:hmm:

[Talking Radalt]

Of course...one mans terrorist is anothers freedom fighter:hmm:
...but Harrods is just overpriced vulgar tatt no matter who you are. :}

[BEagle]

It's just a souk in Knightsbridge these days......:\

[teeteringhead]

Should add the Walkabout chain to the boycott list. In today's paper two Royals in uniform who had been to mate's funeral (an Iraq kia) were refused service in the Liverpool branch of the pub chain....

[MR12]

Not trying to offend anyone, but it is quite simple really, because of our foreign policy and our "Special" relationship with America we have made ourselves more of a target for the extremists.
Has their been a problem in France with extremist Terrorism? Germany? Holland? Italy ? if there has it has been on a much smaller scale.
It is widely regarded as a major factor as to why we are such targets for terror.
It's about time we started putting our own people first and stopped sticking our noses in America's problems, we aren't a superpower and haven't been since the end of the Second World war, we should stop trying to be the worlds policemen and take a step or two away from America's influence.
This Nation used to be Great in it's own right, now it is seen as America's puppy and it's about time it stopped, if we want to live free from Terror we should stop starting wars in Extremist country's for no bloody reason
France has had its share of Islamic terrorism. Al-Qaeda lists it as one of the 'Crusader nations' and therefore a legitimate target. I seem to recall a bombing campaign on the Metro in the eighties, repeated attacks on French nationals and interests in Algeria throughout the nineties and the hijacking of an Air France Airbus from Algeria to Marseille in December '94 (successfully resolved by GSIGN) was apparently intended to culminate in the aircraft being flown into the Eiffel Tower or blown up over Paris.
Germany has also had its own terror shock recently and with bayonets and helis in Afg it probably won't be its last.
The fundamental differences seem to be that France was reacting to what was almost a single-polar threat, which hadn't evolved as Al-Qaeda has, still less enjoyed AQ's PR savvy, and more importantly that there has always been a more Machiavellian aspect to the Quai d'Orsay's foreign policy than to whatever emanates from the White House. Foggy Bottom is actually quite good at that kind of thing when it's allowed to be (as are we), but the policy hardnuts in the White House seem to be missing the 'receive' option. America's foreign policy professionals - the ones who aren't parachuted in because of their links to the incoming administration - were no more eager to get dragged into Iraq and Afghanistan than we were and are extremely sensitive to the clumsy propagandising which their (and our) masters engage in. Like the French, too, they're not the bleating pacifists the media would like everyone to think; they just prefer the knife to the cavalry charge wherever possible.
Not convinced how much we'd gain, or for how long, by distancing ourselves from America, unless it was a post-Madrid kind of backstep. AQ will still be out there looking for the next flimsy excuse to blow up a transport network full of civilians and behead foreign engineers and will have to be broken, preferably out of sight. If we can separate them from the Talibs it'll be a start.
And where were the Americans when PIRA were murdering their way around Europe ? Well, most of the informed ones were mortified that those subhumans were sometimes publicly lauded in the Land of the Free, but like any other country the majority had little inclination or time for the debate and paid little attention when some of their politicos (Pataki in New York ?) rejigged the state school history syllabus to make the potato famine read as an act of genocide. Ironic perhaps that one of the best add-ons we could use to win the war on terror would be to ramp up some of PIRA's tactics : long term infiltration and observation; targeted assassination (preferably the anonymous must-be-one-faction-hitting-another kind) and pitch-perfect propaganda. Not simple, not quick, not bloodless, but the alternatives are even more of what we're doing now or total surrender.

[mallorcasaint]

Mick was one of my guys and was a victim of a deliberate and exhaustivley planned attack, as was his daughter. At the time the IRA monitored comings and goings from the base and although opportunistic these particular murders were planned. Only the actual target was random. The same applies to the Rocks in Roermonde. Many servicemen drank in the town and all the IRA had to do was wait. Again a planned operation. I hardly think that Harrods are in any more danger if uniforms are present or not. We are the ONLY country in the world that bans its servicemen amd women from wearing their countries uniform.

[Climebear]

We are the ONLY country in the world that bans its servicemen amd women from wearing their countries[sic] uniform.

We don't...

Wearing of Uniform in Public (UK) (QR 199)

0110. All RAF personnel at UK units should normally wear civilian clothes when they are not required for duty. However, unless otherwise ordered, No 1 and No 2 uniform modes may be worn routinely in public, on public transport, on foot or in private transport. This ruling must take into account security implications and a commonsense approach to local situations. The remaining paragraphs of this Chap also detail particular situations when uniform can and cannot be worn. Local orders, i.e. SSOs, SRO’s[sic], etc, will detail current circumstances regarding the wearing of uniform. Uniform is not to be worn on the following occasions:

a. When participating in non-Service parades (e.g. on Remembrance Day, Battle of Britain Day, etc) serving officers are forbidden to wear uniform if conditions require them to appear in the ranks with serving or ex-Service personnel below commissioned rank. This does not preclude the wearing of uniform by those officiating at a saluting base or appearing officially with a party of civic officials.

b. Uniform is not to be worn by prospective or adopted parliamentary candidates at political meetings, or while canvassing, appearing in public or engaged in any other activities connected with their candidature.

c. Uniform is not to be worn at functions where fancy dress is worn; the wearing of uniform of obsolete design, which is clearly distinguishable from the pattern currently worn, is, however, permitted.

d. Uniform is not to be worn by personnel engaged in temporary or part-time civil employment or while seeking such employment.

d.[sic] When visiting Public Houses or places of entertainment and/or consuming alcohol, unless at a recognised Service function or when officially representing the Service at an external function.

f. Relaxed Dress. There may be occasions when a relaxed form of dress is appropriate, such as in DOR activities. Any Commanders proposing to initiate a relaxed dress policy is [sic] to obtain formal approval from the Chairman of the Dress Policy Committee.


From AP1358 Chapter 1 (http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafiles/96453EF0_ABE4_1A8E_F5DFFE866A594026.pdf)

[warty99]

Harrods is not somewhere one would choose to shop. I'm just glad it wasn't Waitrose.

[tonker]

R A F


Retail At Fortnum's

[Tigs2]

Came back to london from Oxford the other night to see three lads sat on the train in desert cams. I got up to get a tinnie from the buffet cart and bought an extra three. On getting back to my seat I asked them if they were 'coming or going'? (yes i knew the answer really, as they had clearly just come from Brize!), they said they had just got back from Iraq for a two week R+R, i said thanks for what you are doing for us, we are all really grateful and offered the 3 cans. Everyone around clapped, the boys looked as pleased as punch, and all for a thanks and a beer. I could never have done it if they were not in Uniform. Bring it on, lets have more of it. Our guys are proud to serve, we should be proud to allow them to wear the uniform that they are willing to wear when they die for their Queen and Country.

[Never Alert]

Top drills Tigs2.

I'm glad the other occupants of the carriage joined in and supported your offer of thanks.

Enjoy your R & R guys. Stay safe on the 2d half of your tour.:ok:

[cm74]

Seen many times but still with a ring of truth today.


I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!


:ok:Tigs...I'll bet those beers tasted sweeter than most.

[Tigs2]

I think the beers did taste sweet. But what was interesting was that the great british public only needed the slightest nudge to know that they didn't have to be so 'stiff'. Three people came up to the table after the 'clap' to shake hands with the lads and say thank you. The Military should be driving the 'pride in our troops' hard and allowing as many public displays of uniform as possible.

[Magnersdrinker]

Fantastic Tigs , thats a right gentleman thing to do and ill be honest Id do the same. _o_

just wish so many more in the UK were like that and tbh i think they would if you are brave enough to travel in uniform, but as we know these days when people of your own country would like to kill you then its best to stay civvy unless you in numbers

[Samuel]

Tigs, you are a really, really nice man!:D

Some years ago, having arrived at Lyneham in an RNZAF Herc, five days out of New Zealand, and decided to take a chance on a train from Kings Cross to see my 'old man', and still in uniform with "Royal New Zealand Air Force" shoulder flashes [they just have "New Zealand "now], I bought a pint and was about to move to a seat when a well-dressed, well-spoken gentleman in a suit paid for the beer. "You chaps should never have to pay for beer here Old boy", and walked off!

[Tigs2]

The reason we were stopped from wearing uniform was because of the IRA. They are no longer a threat to anyone in uniform. I do not believe that there have been any other groups attack British Servicemen in Uniform in the UK. Many people oppose the war in the US, but their military can hold their heads high when in the public view, without fear of attack. I am sure ours could do here.


Samuel
Thanks, but I think most on here would have done the same if you were presented with the situation.

[endplay]

Good on you sir and that may well be the best round of drinks you ever buy. I've spent the last couple of days on the streets selling poppies and have been the benificiary of nothing but warm responses and good wishes from every age, ethnic or otherwise group I've met.

The Great British Public only need the opportunity to show their respect and the chattering intelligentsia can shove their opinions where the sun don't shine

[Jack Aubrey]

I shall raise a glass to you this lunchtime Sir!