US Immigration Clearance - Ireland

[dublinamg]

Just wondering if anybody knows for sure are all immigration checks completed in Ireland when you go through immigration.

Planning on heading to the States but things are a bit complicated for me with regards to getting a visa due to some problems in the past - don't officially qualify for the visa waiver if you know what I mean.

If all goes well in Dublin and nothing shows up I presume I'm all clear when I get to the States. I am presuming that the worse that can happen in Dublin is that you would be refused to fly.

Appreciate any info.

[TRY2FLY]

I'd recommend you check with the american ambassy in Ballsbridge , better know now than be geared up for the trip and refused:sad:

[heidelberg]

Not all airlines allow their PAX clear American immigration at DUB.

A couple of weeks ago I was a PAX to PHL with US Airways and immigration was cleared at PHL.

Does anyone know out there, if there are any other airlines who do not use the pre immigration clearance at DUB?

I am thinking of Aer Lingus, Continental, Delta - any others?

[dublinamg]

Thought all the airlines used it - seems a big plus for them if they operate.

For my own sake I'm trying to avoid the US embassy!!

[johnrizzo2000]

Becuase of the number of flights going from the relatively small immigration's facility in Dublin, the airport operator said one airline will have to forfeit pre-clearance in Dublin, and this was US airways. All others, CO, EI, DL do it in Dublin, unless the flight routes thru Shannon.

If you make it thru Dublin Immigration, you will be fine! The only thing that happens in the US, is that you hand in your customs form!!! But be aware; people get stopped regularly!

[Flame]

I was not aware that US Airways did not clear Us Immigration at DUB, however, i can tell you that the Aer Lingus late afternoon flight to the US clears US Immigration on arrival in the USA, this because immigration officers at Dublin are finished for the day (They start circa 0630)

The worst that can happen is that you will be refused permission to fly to the US, and you can bet, that if you have had some problem in the past, that it will turn up!!!

[apaddyinuk]

DublinAMG....I would seriously SERIOUSLY consider contacting the embassy if you are that worried. US Immigration is far more sophisticated then you could ever imagine nowadays. They take a photo of you and your fingerprints at the desk and any past "problems" with your profile will appear on their screens straight away. Remember, if you get refused entry the airline will more than likely not give you a refund.

Ill give you an example, I pass through immigration almost on a weekly basis. On one of the few occassions where the immigration chap was actually friendly I asked what kind of info he had on his screen...he was able to tell me EVERY time I have entered the states since my first visit in 1986. He could tell me my immediate family members names as they had all passed through the system also and yes, he even told me that if I had any convictions or travel restrictions on an old or current passport he would be able to tell.
On another occassion, I had received a paper cut a few days previous to my flight. When giving the finger prints at the desk I was taken aside as they were not matching up and they needed to verify it was really me. It didnt help that my hair was more or less shaved compared to my previous visits also so I looked pretty different to the photos they had on file.
So be bloody sure about this. US Immigration are not stupid...at least not in this sense!!!! :ugh:

However, I will say one thing. The chaps in Dublin do tend to be less surely.

[dublinamg]

Thanks for that.

I've no problem with anything in the US.

When I was 18 (3 years ago) I was convicted of assault causing harm here and got 6 months. I know someone in a similar situation and he didn't get a visa when he applied.

My mates are organising a trip to Las Vegas and rather than going to the Embassy and getting turned down and them knowing about it. I wanted to make sure that if I did go I wouldn't run in to any problems over there - heard some bad stuff about being held for days while they arrange to send you back! I'm pretty sure that that information wouldn't show up but to be sure I wanted to go through the procedures in Dublin so I could relax about it when I went there.

[Flame]

The advantage of clearing US Immigration at Dublin, is that...if anything does show up and you are refused admission to the US, at least you are in Dublin and thats it.....If the Immigration checks were carried out in the USA on arrival and you were refused entry, then you may face the prospect of being locked up for a couple of days while the TSA makes arrangements to transport you home, although I can never get my head around this one, as there are numerous flights to Ireland (Dublin) each day..why do they lock you up for so long

On another note....bearing in mind the provisions of the data protection act...where do the US Immigration officers get the right to probe your criminal / not so criminal records held by the Garda (Irish Police) on departure at Dublin Airport..:confused:

[the_fish@blueyonder.]

Why is US Immigration done at Belfast/Shannon anyway and why not at the likes of LHR/EDI/GLA (who all offer direct flights to the states) or any other airport outside the US?

During the late 1980's we travelled through Shannon (from PIK, I think) on the way to JFK and BOS, but from looking at my Dads old passport we cleared immigration once we were in the states. Is it a relativly new procedure too?

[spanishflea]

Just Dublin and Shannon, not Belfast. It comes down to bilateral agreements between the USA and various other governments. Ireland, Canada, and Mexico are the 3 countries that spring to mind to me that have US Border preclearance.

I'm not sure of the specific reason why it never occurred with the UK?

[Globaliser]

I'm pretty sure that that information wouldn't show up but to be sure I wanted to go through the procedures in Dublin so I could relax about it when I went there.If you do not get a visa and successfully get through the preclearance in Dublin as a visa waiver case, you will not be able to relax at all once you're in the US. On top of your previously problems, you will have entered the US by committing fraud. If that's ever found out, you'll be in much deeper trouble than you are at the moment.I'm not sure of the specific reason why it never occurred with the UK?It has been trialled in the UK - at LHR, even.

But there are practical issues. I think that it's something to do with the fact that once you pre-clear US immigration, you have to be kept in a sterile area: no going backwards and forwards across the immigration border. And that requires a certain amount of infrastructure, like holding areas beyond the pre-clearance point. And it would be difficult to arrange that at most of LHR.

[Middle Seat]

[bureaucratic hat ON] Arrival in the US consists of two procedures, as others have pointed out, one is Immigration (are you eligible to enter this country?) and Customs (are you bringing in anything you shouldn't be, and can we collect tax on any of it? ;) ).

Preclearance situations are done on a bilateral basis. Currently Immigration and Customs preclearance is done in Freeport and Nassau in the Bahamas, Aruba, and 8 airports in Canada (Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Toronto-Pearson, Montreal-Trudeau, Ottawa, and Halifax -- which is fairly recent). Flights from other, smaller airports like Thunder Bay, Victoria, and St. John's don't get preclearance, and everything will be done at the US port of arrival. There currently is no preclearance from Mexico, though it could be that DHS-parent agency to ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) is working with the Mexicans on such a program. Ireland is Immigration only, as described here, customs is still cleared at your arrival city.

As for why not the UK? It could be a number of things. It may not be on the bilateral agenda, or there could be limitations on placing US employees in a foreign country. Diplomatically, the US would have to ask the UK to allow them to permanently locate a large number of US officials in the UK (just think of the US-bound flights from LHR and LGW alone!) as well as pay for their increased cost of living -- overseas living allowances etc etc. Preclearance is an expensive operation, and I'm not sure if the US would pick up the cost of building the facilities to accomodate their operations. I don't know if the UK would deny this request of the US or not...perhaps they've discussed it in the past.
[bureacratic hat OFF]


...besides, don't you feel a warmer welcome when the Immigration officer flings your passport back to you after a nasty 6-12 hour flight??? :E

[SXB]

Dublinamg
Can I hazard a guess here and arrive at the conclusion that you may have a criminal record ? If you have been convicted of a criminal offence then you are ineligble for the visa waiver scheme, in fact even if you've been arrested, but not convicted, you are still ineligble and need to apply for a visa. Even if a conviction is 'spent' you still need a visa.

I'm not sure what the position is with Ireland but in the UK they, basically, share the information contained on the Police National Computer and if you've been convicted of an offence they will have access to this information at immigration. You need not worry about arrests without conviction (outside the US) as they won't know about this.

Do yourself a favour and apply for a visa.

Good luck !

[Flame]

As "Middle Seat" has clearly pointed out, US Immigration is the only pre-clearence facility at Dublin and Shannon at the moment, I understand that plans are being discussed about US Customs having a presence at Dublin and maybe Shannon too.

this in my opinion would be a plus when travelling to the USA, In my experience..on arriving at JFK, BOS and LAX I have never seen really long lines at Immigration, but at Customs...now thats an entirely different matter, especially at LAX:ugh:

[patdavies]

I'm not sure what the position is with Ireland but in the UK they, basically, share the information contained on the Police National Computer and if you've been convicted of an offence they will have access to this information at immigration.


Sorry, just not true.

[SXB]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SXB http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2968421#post2968421)
I'm not sure what the position is with Ireland but in the UK they, basically, share the information contained on the Police National Computer and if you've been convicted of an offence they will have access to this information at immigration.


Sorry, just not true.

Oh yes it is, they've been doing it for years and long before 9/11.

The fact that someone in the UK may have been convicted of a criminal offence is already information in the public domain. Don't confuse the sharing of data relating to passengers on an aircraft with lists of convicted criminals, they are entirely different things and governed by different rules.

[dublinamg]

Thanks for the info - although different people are saying different things.

Yes I have a criminal record but I really didn't think that the US immigration people would have access to that - maybe for some really serious stuff or terrorist suspects but not everybody's details.

I know filling in the waiver wouldn't exactly be the right thing to do but I think alot of people do it anyway.

[Globaliser]

I know filling in the waiver wouldn't exactly be the right thing to do but I think alot of people do it anyway.I'm sure that many people do, but you should be in no doubt about the enormity of what you're doing if you decide to join them.

[dublinamg]

I checked it out with the Embassy anonomously and I don't have a hope of getting a visa - even after 5 years I still probably won't (that would be nearly 3 years away anyway). It just seems bad that you don't get another chance. If I knew then what I know now .. and all that. Still really want to go but it's probably not the best idea. Anybody any idea about what could happen if they did pull me up for it over there?

[SXB]

At best they'd probably just deport you after a lengthy interview, this would be stamped in your passport and you'd be forever picked on by immigration officers the world over until you changed your passport.

I think it's probably a silly rule, each case should be judged on it's merits, there are many people in the UK (more than you think) who have a criminal record, mostly for trivial offences and are hardly a threat to American security.

[Self Loading Freight]

It is a silly rule, but then that's true of so much immigration nonsense.

It would have been very possible for me to have picked up a minor conviction by now: luck, the general ineptitude of the plod and the fact that nobody gives a flip about many of the things that the law in its majesty declares sinful have saved me. Were that not so, then I'd have been unable to travel to the US for many years, which would have materially impacted my job and prospects. For what? I don't know.

Thing is, when I am over in the US I see many people doing exactly the things that are determined to be so terrible having done them years ago is sufficient reason to deny entry. I'm quite sure that those people, if caught, would be denied entry to the UK. But those that haven't been caught come over here, and seem to behave themselves.

Is there logic in this anywhere? Beats me.

R

[frankiedj]

Oh yes it is, they've been doing it for years and long before 9/11.

The fact that someone in the UK may have been convicted of a criminal offence is already information in the public domain. Don't confuse the sharing of data relating to passengers on an aircraft with lists of convicted criminals, they are entirely different things and governed by different rules.


Hi, I have a criminal record since 1998 last time in the states 2001, have the computer systems become more sophisticated since then, I'm sure i read somewhere that the EU were not happy sharing info like criminal records, I thought a crminal record was secure and the only people able to view were companys applying to the CRB.
Was'nt there something about the immigration computer system kept crashing or something?

I'm a little worried, I thought the fingerprint and eye scan was just a method of logging who was coming in and coming out of the country.

Thanks