Which Handheld Aviation GPS

[jakerr]

Just wondered what the current views are on the latest GPS systems on offer today.

Garmin 96, 96C, 196 or 296 Or maybe Airmap 600?

Don't want to spend a fortune as only going to be used for weekend flying in a Cessna 172.

Any recomendations welcome / good or bad experiences:ok:

Cheers

JK

[Fuji Abound]

For handheld use none of these.

Buy an iPAQ and install PocketFMS (http://www.pocketfms.com/).

The software is free (although you can pay a once fee for slightly enhanced maps), it us updated every month, covers the whole of Europe and the maps are very detailed and of excellent quality.

The iPAQ offers a better colour screen than most dedicated units, is very compact (nice and easy to mount on the yoke for example), offers huge battery life with an extended battery, is crystal clear even in sunlight and works very well with a bluetooth GPS receiver. (so no messy wires or need to connect to the ships supply)

Most importantly, the whole package with a little searching on eBay is likely to be far cheaper :) .

[jakerr]

So how much would I be looking at for a descent set up with an IPAQ given that i would need to by a GPS reciever as well?:cool:

JK

[bean_ian]

I paid $200 for a refurbished Dell Axim X5 and a bluetooth GPS receiver the receiver was about $100 but is more expensive because it has bluetooth, there are cheaper wired versions available, i got the lot on ebay.

[Dude~]

I too am looking for a portable GPS, but the Pocket FMS looks pretty compliated and probably far more advanced than I require. Has anyone got any feedback on the Garmin 96C?

Are there any GPS reviews on the internet?

[IO540]

For a review of just about anything, google for

product-name review

Usually turns up loads of reviews.

[Footless Halls]

I bought a Garmin 196 a couple of years ago. It's a fantastic piece of kit and, given that Garmin are now focusing on much more expensive colour GPSs with terrain, etc., the price of 196s is coming down and down - looks like around £500 now. The mono screen is easy to read and clear even in very bright sunlight.

I'd strongly recommend that you use it. It really is a sophisticated navigational aid. The screen is significantly bigger than the smaller Garmins.

Not wishing to start up discussions which have taken place already on the site, but... I have always used pdas - since they first came out - in business and personal life. I have had many - at least two HPs and four xda's of various types - but I would NEVER use one in an aircraft. Why?

1) Their screens are not powerful enough in the (at times) harshly lit environment of an aircraft cockpit.

2) Their battery life is uncertain.

3) They are simply NOT reliable enough. Connectors, components and switches are all tiny and delicate and they pack in now and again and ofter without warning. For example, my current xda Exec, which is nine months old, has an intermittent fault and will periodically freeze and need to be reset. The software also, even WM 5, is typically Microsoft and will periodically need to be reset or will freeze itself, etc. Think Windows 98.

Whether you like it or not, legally a GPS is a backup to your primary navigation. A quality GPS is a secure and stable backup which is unlikely to let you down unless the signal is played with or you lose power and which, in conjunction with prudent VFR or IMC navigation, will enhance your safety. The pda is NOT designed robustly and may develop intermittent faults. It may become a dangerous distraction to you at a time when you should be focusing on your primary (VFR or IMC) navigation. And if it's not reliable then it can hardly be an effective backup either.

Pocket FMS is a really great piece of software and they seem to be terrific people, but I'd be scared to use it in the air.

I use the Garmion 196 in conjunction with my xda Exec. I plan my route on the map, then enter the waypoints into the Garmin 196 to use it as a way to calculate the legs of the route. Then I enter these waypoints into 'fly.com' on the xda Exec, using G3 or GPRS to access the internet. Then transfer the resulting numbers onto a paper plog. That gives you a proper route plotted on the map, an accurate plog with less scope for mathematical errors and an automatic backup of the route on the Garmin.

[IO540]

Whether you like it or not, legally a GPS is a backup to your primary navigation

I'd like to see a reference for that, in the primary legislation (the UK ANO) :)

I agree that PDAs are too flimsy in terms of software reliability to be useful as one's main (or only) GPS. The battery life is not only uncertain; it's easy to turn the unit on by accident (e.g. by accidentally knocking a plugged-in SD card) and then you find it is half flat, or totally flat. I've spent loads of time playing with PDAs and would now buy a dedicated aviation GPS.

Tablet computers are a lot better - still Windows reliability but XP is a lot better than pocket/pc - but much more pricey especially if you want the special polarised screen necessary for direct sunlight viewing. I use the Motion LS800 and it works well, but needs an expensive flash hard drive replacement above about 13000ft.

If I was an average mostly-VFR pilot I would buy the Garmin 296 or 496. There are better units, e.g. the Avmap EKP IV but on usable battery life the Garmins win.

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

A few months old now but still worth a read; http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2770383#post2770383 .

[Lister Noble]

I use a Garmin e-trex to locate positions in the field where we don't want the trouble of using larger equipment on a Quad bike.
I took it up in the Cub last week fitted to a home made bulldog clip type bracket and it was great,OK it only gives direction and distance to waypoint, and speed over ground,when I headed back into a lightish wind my ground speed dropped to 45 mph!;) ;)
I think it also gives elevation but have not used that to date,but what else do you need for local nav if conditions turn a bit murky and you need a bit of re-assurance?

It cost £99 new.
Lister:)

[dublinpilot]

A quality GPS is a secure and stable backup which is unlikely to let you down unless the signal is played with or you lose power

[...]

Pocket FMS is a really great piece of software and they seem to be terrific people, but I'd be scared to use it in the air.


FH,

While I agree with you that a dedicated gps may be more stable than a pda solution, it's not entirely so.

Have a look at this thread for example (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=243663)

There have also been other threads about the units switching off, because the batterys need more padding to hold them in place.

I accept that a PDA can do strange things from time to time, I have found mine to be pretty stable. The trick I find is to do a soft reset before the flight, to ensure nothing else is running in the background, and the remains of an error from days before aren't lurking in the memory. Then start up the gps software (PocketFMS in my case) and all seems to be very stable.

PDA solutions do have some important advantages too.

PocketFMS is extremely customisable, allowing the user to set it up exactly as they want it. (Can't vouch for other PDA solutions)
VFR reporting points are included in the database unlike most of Garmins units (I found this very very useful when visiting the contenient)
It is constantly being developed my the programers, who listen to their users.
Upgrading to the latest gps solutions, does not involve buying a new gps, but simply downloading the new software.
PocketFMS is very closely linked with it's PC version, making flight planning on the pc and transfer to the pda very easy. From what I see here, Garmin users seem to try to get a similar solution via Navbox.

I suppose it depends on how you use your gps. If it's your only gps onboard, and you relie 99% on it, and would find yourself in a panic if you lost it, then perhaps a dedicated unit is more appropriate. If on a rare occasion losing the signal, and taking a minute to reboot it (or having to continue without it, if you didn't have the free capacity to reboot it) would be nothing more than a bit of a nuieance, but not a big deal the a PDA solution has much to offer.

It's also nice to have internet access via the pda when away from base ;)

dp

[Fuji Abound]

1) Their screens are not powerful enough in the (at times) harshly lit environment of an aircraft cockpit.

2) Their battery life is uncertain.

3) They are simply NOT reliable enough. Connectors, components and switches are all tiny and delicate and they pack in now and again and ofter without warning. For example, my current xda Exec, which is nine months old, has an intermittent fault and will periodically freeze and need to be reset. The software also, even WM 5, is typically Microsoft and will periodically need to be reset or will freeze itself, etc. Think Windows 98.

Sorry, I disagree.

Having used a number of different dedicated aviation GPS products and PDAs I would make the following comments.

1. The screens on the better PDAs are brighter than on all GPSs and the definition is better,

2. Battery life is not uncertain, and the gauge on the pda provides a good guide to the rate of consumption. More to the point with the iPAQ I use with the extended battery and a full charge I know the unit will provide at least three hours use solely on batteries. None of the colour moving map GPSs that I know of will do that. Of course I agree for absolute relability it is preferable to connect both a GPS or iPAQ to the ships supply.

3. I would accept that some PDAs may not prove stable. The answer is simple. Read and follow the recommendations on the PocketFMS forum. I use an HP, both in the car and in the aircraft (if I am not flying with a panel mounted unit). I have never had the unit fail.

4. PocketFMS is not complex but there is a little more to it than simply plugging in a dedicated aviation GPS. However if you have a computer connected to the internet via broadband and are happy to cradle the PDA to the computer you will nott go far wrong.

5. Finally PDAs offer touch screen features - they are useful and you wont find that in many dedicated aviation units.

it's easy to turn the unit on by accident

Very true, and definitely a trap to be aware of.

The iPAQ comes with a slide "on off" switch which disconnects the battery from the unit so even if you should push the on off button by mistake or re-insert an SD card that has come out the unit will not turn on.

[IO540]

The problem with disconnecting the battery is that (WM2005 and its new memory model aside) you lose everything, and have to run the Backup program to restore the O/S and applications from the flash card.

In fact I have wondered whether there would be a market for a software product which, at power-up, wiped the PDA and did a restore from flash, then started your specified application. You can get it for PCs; it's called Deep Freeze.

The said product would also disable all buttons, and the touch screen, so they can't be accidentally touched ;)

You are right about screen resolutions - this is why I have put in so much time myself playing around with these things. The screen res of say an HP4700, 640x480, is way better than just about any aviation GPS. Very tempting...

There is an unusual ruggedised PDA with the special polarised display which is totally sunlight readable, but it's not cheap.

[jakerr]

Thanks for the feed back so far.

A friend of mine has a "second hand" Garmin 196 which is "might" sell to me for about £270-£280 only about 18 months old and in excellent conditon. He's looking to upgrade to a Garmin 496.

I'm tempted by this offer as the new units are generally £450+:ok:

What do you reckon "deal or no deal" as Noel Edmunds would say!:p

[Footless Halls]

Well in your position I'd "Deal".

I accept the interesting comments on my polemic and I probably ought to have another look at Pocket FMS. Also it may be that the o2 xdas I've used as pdas are less reliable than other brands of pdas.

All the same I'd still go for the 196 and upgrade it to the latest operating system (4.40 from memory) and map database via the Garmin website.

[FullyFlapped]

I also use a bluetooth PDA/GPS combination (Ipaq4700 and EMTAC Trine). The battery life of both units is in excess of 8 hours (extended battery on the Ipaq). I keep the Ipaq in a case which prevents accidental power-ons.

The screen on the PDA is fantastic, I think better than any handheld GPS unit I've seen.

Having said all of the above, I don't use this unit as a GPS. I use it to run "moving map" software. I've used it all over Europe with fantastic results : in fact (he says, tempting fate), I can't remember a single failure of this combination's hardware or software.

But for actual GPS usage, I have a panel mounted system. I wouldn't feel comfortable just using ANY handheld GPS without a backup (for the sort of mixed VMC/IMC flying I often do). And naturally, I only use GPS as a back up to traditional navigation technology, I believe that "NDB" really stands for "Navigational Dog's B*ll*cks", and I have a whizz-wheel wired to my underwear at all times, etc etc, blah blah blah ... ;)

FF :ok:

[Footless Halls]

Well FF I do agree with you. I normally fly an aircraft with fitted (obviously) twin G430s.

Last Friday, though, I had a great day out flying all round the Cotswolds, S. Wales, Lundy, the West Country and back in a VFR-only aircraft.

I took the G196 along and was hugely impressed with how flexible, reliable and accurate it was for all aspects of a full day's flying and navigation. We used the G196 as our sole planning aid as well as for nav in the air.

I didn't have it on a mounting, but I could have used the yoke-mount, or you can get a panel mounting thing for it.

I haven't got a connection with Garmin or anything like that; I'm just posting because I was staggered by how good it was on that day.

[FullyFlapped]

Footless,

I've no doubt you're absolutely right : it's just that the three times I've had GPS signal failure, it's affected my (otherwise excellent) "handheld" systems, whereas the GNS430 just kept right on going.

Unlike various "close encounters of the unexpected kind" I've had with the odd NDB, VOR etc ... but that's another story, as we all know !

FF :ok:

[Footless Halls]

That's interesting. I've noticed the same thing.

I'm just a bit conscious of 'thread drift' and of people like me hi-jacking Jakerr's original question. From Jakerr's perspective, I'd summarise my advce as: a second hand G196 at £250 is great value and a much better bet than something a bit cheaper with less well sorted software and a smaller screen.

From the perspective of the issues raised in this thread I'd say there are two further ideas I'd like to explore:

1) Why do handheld GPSs seem to drop signal more than panel mounted 430s, which always seem rock solid? I've noticed the same thing.

2) What is the best current pda, hardware and software for nav? And what is best practice in using it either as a complement to conventional nav and/or a dedicated GPS? I'm interested in this as I'm an avid pda user - I'm typing this on my o2 xda Exec and sending it by wi fi - but one who does not use a pda in the air.

Shall we go on, or set up threads dedicated to these questions?

And lastly, I'd like to offer a collective pat on the back to all concerned for being mature and tolerant (no insults, petty comments, etc.) on all of this, despite my silly ''legal" comment, for example...

[flyingfemme]

Bang for your buck, you can't beat the baby handheld Garmins. They are small, efficient and cheap. They move easily from aircraft to aircraft and fit in your pocket. They take real batteries so you can carry spares. They are cheap and easy to update.

We have owned many 89, 90, 92, Pilot III models and they have a very hard life. Performance and longevity are excellent. They have been used in anger during total electrical failure (not by me) and they were a lifesaver.

Got a GPSMAP96 coming this week (too cheap to buy colour) and expect no less from this model. :)

[S-Works]

well......

I have worked my way through a fair number of GPS units. I had 196 then a 296 and now a 496 as well as a couple of the PDA solutions on the way.

The 196 is a cracking unit, clear display and good battery life but not rechargeable. The 296 is another league compared to the 196, crytsal clear display and fantastic battery life. I did home to Menorca and back in the twin without recharge 13hrs flying. The 496 is a great bit of kit, faster screen draws and nice presentation of airspace using the smart airspace feature. Is it better than the 296? Well to be honest probably not, I bought mine on a bit of a whim and to be honest it does little more than the 296. Now if I was in the USA it would be a cracking bit of kit with the XM weather.

I have tried a couple of the PDA solutions and not of them had the reliability or ease of mounting that the Garmin kit offers, I don't like Yokemount stuff the garmins sit on the dash and the PDA's were unreadable at that distance. Also the battery life really sucked, OK for a bacon butty run but 5hrs to Perpignan and they were flat. I also found in the airways they misbehaved, uncommanded shutdowns etc which may have been pressure related.

My view is buy a 296 if you can afford colour or a 196 if not.

[Fuji Abound]

Having reread this thread, and I accept being biased in favour of the PDA solution, I have to conclude that PDAs are less reliable. If you want a guaranteed solution any of the better dedicated aviation products are likely to be sound.

However, to defend my original position, PDAs can be as reliable or nearly as reliable. Their problem is that you need to do some research before buying and have an understanding of PDAs potential gotchas to achieve equivalent reliability.

In short if you read the specialist forums such as PocketFms you will find there are certain PDAs that are favoured and certain combinations of PDAs and receivers that work well.

Personally, I have used an HX4700 with an extended battery and SD card with a great deal of success. I have yet to have a failure or have the unit “hang” in operation. Battery life is in excess of three and a half hours from a full charge and most bluetooth GPS receivers will run for considerably longer.

I agree with Bose in disliking yoke mounted GPSs. However, infact that is another reason for favouring a PDA. With a couple of bits of velcro they can be mounted on any yoke or convenient spot on the panel without being cumbersome.

Finally, with PDAs becoming so cheap in the second hand unit, carry a couple with you, so if one fails or runs out of power for any reason you have a backup!

[IO540]

The subject of PDA pluses and minuses was done in the Pprune computer forum a short while ago.

In the flying context, PDAs are a solution crying out for being usable. Garmin etc are taking an absolute mickey with their pricing. Look at the cost of a Garmin 496; for a fraction of that you could have a PDA with a much better screen, which does everything the Garmin does, and which can be used for loads of other stuff.

One problem is that PDAs have been designed to be primarily corporate executive daily work aids, and their rafts of drawbacks (like short and uncertain battery life, constant power drain resulting in a battery draw-down within weeks if not less, ease of accidental turn-on, inability to disable the touch screen and/or buttons, varying sunlight readibility, flimsy buttons, flimsy connectors) don't matter much in that application.

There are ruggedised PDAs (specifically, ARM based pocket/pc devices) and you can find them by googling for "ruggedised computer" etc. They tend to be £1000 & upwards though.

The other problem is the databases. PocketFMS does its own, but otherwise every other product uses Jeppesen data, and Jepp charge a lot for this; this in turn keeps the end product prices well up.

Jepp have never made their aviation database available in a purely-software product which also supports moving map operation, other than locked inside pricey PC applications like the £500 Flitemap IFR (recently discontinued) or the ~ £1500 (for European coverage) eppview3/FliteDeck, and none of these run under pocket/pc anyway.

There is a product (advertised in the LOOP magazine I think) running on a PDA which quite obviously runs the Jepp Raster Charts. They must have licensed them. Two problems: very pricey (Jepp reportedly charge the manufacturer a 3-digit price for the data license) and the screen is far too small to show the relevant airspace labels. In fact these raster charts are only marginally usable (as a moving map) on a bigger tablet computer.

The last comment above is also why Memory Map (running the CAA charts) doesn't work well on a PDA, even a 640x480 one. One often can't see the label for the relevant bit of airspace. One needs a bigger screen.

For Europe, the nearest you can get to a "PDA moving map GPS" using Jepp data is on a tablet computer (e.g. the Motion LS800) running WinXP and running either an old copy of Flitemap, or Flitedeck. And, IMHO, the result is not as usable (but is a lot more expensive than) as a £1000+ dedicated aviation unit.

However, a tablet computer (800x600 or bigger) makes an excellent UK-only GPS running Memory Map and the CAA VFR charts. This has to be seen to be believed (I have it, see picture) and if this was standard issue in flying we should see zero CAS infringements. The hardware is pricey (roughly the cost of a Garmin 496) and the MM charts are also pricey (£150 for the UK) but they can be "shared" ;) IMHO the quality and usability of this solution really shows up how counterproductive the CAA data policy is; al the while they moan about airspace infringements.

There are a lot of holy grails in this business but (in Europe) they aren't getting any nearer because of cash cows and data copyrights :)

In the USA there are great PDA solutions, because the enroute charts are free in digital form. Try to suggest that to the CAA :ugh:

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m74/peterh337/ls800-memorymap.jpg
Edited for spelling errors etc, prune keeps bombing with "server too busy"

[cjhants]

jakerr,
lots of advice above, but as you asked about the garmin 96C, here is some feedback from a user.
have owned one for 9 months. has been 100% reliable. i plug it into the cigarette lighter and dont have to use an external ariel. it does everything i want it to do for local flights and short distance touring.
my previous aircraft had a 430 panel system, and although the 96C screen is small, it is perfectly acceptable as a back up to DR and is good value for money.
why not try to borrow one, or fly with somebody who has one so you can judge for yourself.

[jakerr]

Nice to see such an intresting debate.:hmm:

I guess every one will have their own views on which is best to go for based on their own experiences. I have considered the PDA option but keep coming back to the Garmin units.

I've also been looking at the Lowrence airmap 500 and 600, although the graphics quality doesn't appear to look as good as the Garmin units, mind you they tend to be a bit cheaper.

I was hoping to pick up a mates second hand unit for about £280 but he now wants to hang on to it till the spring as the 486 unit is a bit pricy at the moment and is waiting for the pricies to drop a little befre he splashes out. :ugh:

I don't want to spent a fortune on the unit really as I can't justify the oultayt for the amount of flying I do per year. I was hoping to spend under £300 if possible either on a new Garmin 96 or a second hand Garmin 196

Does anyone have a 196 they want to sell on?:ok:

JK