Starting Helicopter Company

[dheli]

Is there anybody with experience in starting their own helicopter company or someone who knows somebody who might be able to give some good advice on doing so?

Thinking about doing a bit of aerial photography, pleasure trips, corporate travel etc.!

Thanks in advance!

Dheli

[HillerBee]

Yes, I have. Unless you have a (awfull) lot of money don't even think about it.

Remember:

If you want to make a little money in aviation, you have to start with a lot.

The difference between fixed-wing and helicopters? The money goes even faster.

[bladewashout]

It can be done (and I've done it). You really need either (i) a lot of cash upfront or (ii) less money and a good solid set of contracts which will pay for the helicopter's insurance and costs.

If you're looking to just try and make your own flying cheaper by doing extra stuff to mitigate costs of ownership, it's really not worth it, the downside risk hugely outweighs the upside cost reductions (e.g. save £20-30 per hour on your personal flying but get hit by £10,000 cost of an AD).

If you are aiming to make your own business and earn money out of it, it's really down to your offering. Some operators make money, but a lot of people don't. If you have a proper business plan and can execute it well, you can do ok, but without a lot of money it will be pretty hard.

I kind of wish I hadn't bothered... lots of hassle, not a lot to show for it...


BW

[tgilson]

The best bit of advice I can give you is make sure you have loads of dosh ! Myself and 2 friends started a commercial operation a couple of years ago but we have since wound it up due to not really making any money. First you will have to set up an AOC which will set you back approx £14,000 and take months , although there are consultants around who will do it for you for a hefty fee I'm sure. Next come all the ops and maint. manuals which will be at least another £5000. You will have to set up an approved maint programme and be EASA compliant. For pleasure flying you will have to provide your own fire cover at the location, including all the equipment plus suitably trained personnel. You can hire companies in for the cover but they charge £30 - 40 an hour just to have them sitting there all day - that makes quite a dent in a days pleasure flying ! Finally you have to find the work - it takes a lot of calling, mailing etc to get anything plus there are a lot of established operators out there already.
Do loads and loads of research or maybe you have some things lined up already, anyway I wish you the best of luck and I'm sorry for sounding all doom and gloom but I'm sure you would rather know before you start spending

[paco]

Tony about sums it up, except that one of your major problems is solved in that you have access to an aircraft and will preumably only pay for it when you use it. You're not forking out for mortgages etc when it's sitting around.

Hi Tony!

phil

[Whirlygig]

If this business has the partial objective of being a vehicle to get cheap flying, please be aware of Benefits in Kind on company directors. The rules are that the asset need only be available for use, not whether the director actually uses it or not! You could be taxed on 20% market value of the asset i.e. helicopter.

Cheers

Whirls

[SoundByDesign]

Which location?




Is there anybody with experience in starting their own helicopter company or someone who knows somebody who might be able to give some good advice on doing so?

Thinking about doing a bit of aerial photography, pleasure trips, corporate travel etc.!

Thanks in advance!

Dheli

[topendtorque]

dheli
Locality means nothing.
You will wonder which comes first, the cart that comes first and costs heaps sitting idle, or the horse (AOC) that for some strange reason cannot be harnessed until the cart is in place and costing heaps!

Answer;
1. Patience (lots)
2. Money ( more)
3. Know the rules backwards ( more again)

don't believe the published timelines for action from the authority

Oh,

and be able to do the work that you envisage, automaically, cheaper and better than any opposition than you never before heard about.

Good luck; its kinda fun if you like beating yourself.
tet

[Gerhardt]

never mind, I'm not gonna bite on that bait.

[outofwhack]

I'd say think carefully about what you really want out of setting up your helicopter company. If its money! - stay flying privately and keep your other job to subsidize private flying!

Admittedly, I am an enthusiast rather than a career pilot but I quite enjoy sharing my passion for flying with the public. I've tried running commercial joyflights as an owner/operator in Oz but, to be frank, given the onerous system we have, it would probably be cheaper to operate privately and give the flights away for free. I learnt a lot from doing it but I wont do it again!

I'll stick with private thanks.

OOW

[thecontroller]

I worked for a heli company once. It was bought by a chap who obviously thought there was tonnes of money in it. 6 months later he realised it was barely breaking even, and sold it.

I heard that from a £230 R22 lesson, the company only sees about £30 profit. Does this sound correct?

It seems the heli companies that make money are the ones that have a) their own maintenance dept, b) good contacts to get charter work and, c) have modest premises

I imagine the CAA fees, insurance and maintenance are the most expensive parts of a heli operation.

I guess it all comes back to over-regulation.

The question is... are the heli accident statistics better in the UK (because of all the regulation), than in the USA? Has anyone any knowledge of this? I'm willing to bet they are the same.

[Xavier Dosh]

Poor old Dheli,

If we haven't put him off - who will?

In all honesty, of course you could make a go of running your own company. All of the operators in the UK have had a 'day one' at some point and they're still here to tell the tale.

Personally, I would never, ever, recommend that you start an operation from nothing. The set up costs are huge and the helicopter charter market is increasingly competitive, particularly in the South East.

I wish you well with your flying, of course and anybody that is passionate about the industry should be encouraged!

My only advice would be to research your market thoroughly and take a pragmatic view on how achievable and sustainable it is. Particularly in November and December.

Try and make yourself enough money to be sitting in the back of the helicopter, with your feet up, reading the newspaper and not sitting in the front working hard!

All the best

XD

[noblades]

dheli

You never know, in 30 years you could be another bond or phi. Ask yourself which will be harder for you when you are peeing your bed 50yrs from now in some old codgers home, will you be regretting having waisted a year or 2 running your own helicopter company that did or didn't make it or regretting having had the chance to have your own place but bottled out???

Always remember the destination in life is not as important as the journey to it :cool: (very zen)

Good luck no matter which box you choose but be sure to keep us all posted on your decision/progress

NB:ok:

[ATPMBA]

Craig Dobbins of CHC Helicopters started with one helicopter.
Imagine if he believed in the naysayers here.
He passed away in October, but he saw his company make over 1 Billion in Canadian revenue and they have been profitable for years.
Look for a PM that I will send out to you.
Kenneth

[nigelh]

20 yrs ago i ran a small helicopter business with 5 helicopters. It used to be fun. You didnt need to employ somebody full time dealing with endless mostly irrelevant paperwork and we worked in with the caa , who were there to help ensure things were done properly and safely...........Now.....................
In this country we have a thing called the C.A.A. it is their job to stop people like you setting up business. The more operators , the more work for them , inspecting .....well ....things. A helicopter is only really safe when it is grounded , so that is what they will do. if they cannot find an excuse to ground the helicopter, dirty windscreen, inop xsponder or skymap in wrong place, they will bury you alive in meaningless paperwork , check rides,dunker ,fire,dinghy,first aid drills...to the point where you go clinically insane .....and then they will take your licence away making the skies of Great Britain a safer place.!! Just go private:ugh: :ugh:
or you could emigrate..

[thecontroller]

hear hear, thats why it costs 300 quid an hour for a r22 and an instructor

[SIM1]

There are 3 ways to loose money:
The most pleasant one is on WOMEN
The quickest one is in GAMBLING
The surest one is in AVIATION

Sorry to be so cynical, but I have seen so many "start ups" failing.If by chance or vision you get a good opportunity or a good contract you can be sure that the "majors" (CHC etc....will underbid you to get it and drive you out!

[paco]

SIM1 - don't want to get into business 101, but there are usually three reasons why people fail at aviation:

They grossly underestimate the amount of money required - you must have the money to pay up front, and to survive for at least 6 months
They try to pay as they go along - sort of related to point 1
They are pilots

With reference to the last, pilots think that they must fly, and at any cost. You can often make money by being on the ground

If you're thinking about starting an airline, the first point is very relevent when it comes to travel agents who will do anything they can not to pay you

Phil

[ATPMBA]

Dheli,
Please check your Private Messages.
Thanks,
Ken

[kissmysquirrel]

Or you could ring some operators mentioned on this site and see if they want to sell their business. I know of one might be interested. See a thread recently started on here!!:E :E

[helicopter-redeye]

Which operators dat den?

[rotorvision98]

Hi there. You were asking about starting a helicopter company. I got in to the industry about 7 years ago under the old system when you could instruct on a PPL. It cost me about £45k to go from ppl pass at 45 hrs to the required 250 hrs and instructor course. at the same time I invested 24K in property which has given a 250K return My advice is dont bother just SFH or set up a small group around an aircraft to reduce costs. I am lucky to work in probably the best area in the country as far as flying is concerned and with a good school additionally I dont rely on flight pay to live. Good Luck

[Levange2001]

Dear Dheli,
I have occassionally seen your message on the pprune forum, from 2006. I am interested, did you start your helicopter company? I am also starting the private helicopter business in Georgia (a country in Caucasus) and I really need a goood advise on that. If appropriate, please send your response to my mail at [email protected], I 'll be very thankful to you.
Thanks in advance,

Sincerely,
Levan Alpaidze (Mr.)

[pdoyle]

:= REMEMBER THE GOLDEN RULE
if it FLYS FLOATS OR F*#/S THEN RENT IT

[[email protected]]

I started my own company overseas which i ran for 20 years until it became obvious that without fixed contract(s), the business model was unsustainable. During those 20 years I was fortunate enough to have a good team and we won some contracts, in the absence of which it would have been impossible to develop the company to where I wanted it to be (in terms of personnel, equipment, facilities and resources). I had an excellent purpose built heliport with all facilities and operated a mix of single/multi helos. I think the general thread perception, or experience is entirely accurate - you better have lots of cash and plenty of patience.

The days of casually starting an operation on the basis of adhoc charters etc are just not realistic. Fixed costs in the business have become increasingly high as regulators mandate staffing/experience levels, facility requirements etc etc. The old ratio of maintenance:flight hours was long replaced by pounds of paperwork:flight hours. I closed the business when it became evident that there was just no more contracts to win on the horizon, and despite having a fairly well established base of business, it just wasn't enough to support even one AS350 with all the attendant overhead. A difficult decision to make, but a good one none the less.

I think smaller operators < 3-5 aircraft are just going to have a tough time of it unless they can identify niche markets or win some type of contract that provides stable cashflow which to a large degree will cover fixed costs.

As sexy as aviation is (and I say that because spreadsheets do make them look good), all I can say is do you home work, detach your emotions and take your time getting into anything before time and the business take a toll on you.

It was an interesting ride though, and one that I don't necessarily regret !

[topik22]

Hello,
I am wondering how to start helicopter charter company:
do I need AOC?
do I need Performance class 1 helicopter?
do I need any additional requirements?
Many thanks for help...

[Aucky]

If you need to ask the question then I would suggest you have a lot of heavy reading and headache coming your way if your serious, but thats not to say it can't be done. The following is assuming you are talking about in JAR land(?).

AOC - Definitely if you want to do commercial aerial work (charter, photography etc...), any the requirements to be found suitable for holding and AOC are pretty stringent (and documented in JAR-OPS3, below). If however you want to undertake solely Flight instruction however - then no need for an AOC as that's not charter work.

http://www.jaat.eu/publications/jars/606970.pdf (JAR-OPS3) would be a good starting point.

Also the type of AOC required is dependant on the aircraft you intend to fly, (correct me if i'm wrong) but I believe there is a watered down "Single engine piston AOC" if you fancy using the R22/R44 etc..

This is my limited understanding on the issue.

Aucky