Lost leave!

[toddbabe]

Just wondering how many of you actually get to use your full annual entitlement.
It seems the norm on my Sqn, with OOA and other detachments, guard etc that you have to carry over your fourteen days a year, in mine and many others cases more than 14 days are regurlarly getting carried over!
This is a bad situation, if I can't get my entitlement taken one year how am I supposed to be able to take next years plus another couple of weeks?
I want to be able to take all my leave "If I can't" then we should be payed a bonus payment at the daily rate for all the leave you haven't been able to take.

[snowball1]

Do you put your leave in, for it to be officially rejected, or for the bosses just to say you can't have it? the latter masking the problem.

[BEagle]

At a certain aerodrome darn sarf, the inept little git who was allegedly the Staish at the time refused to sign many leave carry-overs - because it would reflect adversely on his 'performance indicators :yuk: '....

At least the tw@t left on redundancy (no-one was sad to see him go), so is unable to do any more damage to morale.

[juliet]

stick a leave pass in for any leave that you are entitled to. it has to be signed, either in acceptance or rejection. this at least means that you wont lose any leave when carrying over from one leave year to another.

i think that technically (feel free to correct me here) the mod doesnt have to give you your leave though, all to do with QRs' etc. how this would stand up though when challenged in the courts is anyones guess.

the main thing is to get those leave passes officially rejected so that the stats are there for all to see.

[Kitbag]

I'm with Snowball 1 on this issue. I have worked for bosses who whilst unwilling to let me take my leave when I wanted/needed it always insisted on submission of leave pass and subsequent rejection. If you don't do that then you will be throwing it away, no ifs or buts now, its no longer the 'privilege' it used to be.

[Pontius Navigator]

There is also a tendency to apply espirit de corp. A big visit is programmed - you anticipate leave will be restricted so you don't apply. Wrong.

There is an inspection and a leave ban imposed. You don't apply. Wrong. Only thing here is be prepared to take leave when they approve your leave pass.

You work in an office with one other person. You both want leave at half-term. One of you agrees to put in a leave pass. Wrong. Both of you put in the leave pass and let your boss stop you.

And so on.

Work out your leave plan when you want leave. Clearly you must take some 'out of season' leave as everyone cannot expect a 6-week block in summer, but you do not have to take that summer leave that was refused in July in October.

Anyway the extended Christmas leave will soak up 2 days of your excess.

[Aynayda Pizaqvick]

I tried this a while back but because I had carried over the (now almost standard) 15 days the previous year my request was declined ('look, it says in QRs'). Apparently this was to prevent a backlog of leave even though I already had a leave pass in that would have used all leave that I was requesting. It seems someone forgot to tell Handbrake House that flexibility was the key to air power!
How does this work in the training system? After an 18 month course with 2 weeks of scheduled leave (if your lucky) will we all be entitle to carry over any that we don't use?

[Pontius Navigator]

How does this work in the training system? After an 18 month course with 2 weeks of scheduled leave (if your lucky) will we all be entitle to carry over any that we don't use?

It is not unusual to build up a leave surplus when in a properly functioning training system. OTOH I had a 5 week gap between the basic training system and the advanced training system (deliberately vague here). One organisation tried to make me work for the 3 weeks for which I had no leave but the receiving organisation realised I would soon build up a deficit and said b*gg*r off and enjoy yourself.

The problem continues when you leave the OCU as the sqn is often keen to get you opqual in as short a time as possible. Leave for the first 6 months is a bonus. Anyway you should be so keen, having left the training system, that you only want to fill your boots. OK Mrs AP might be a bit cheesed off but she will have to learn to take the rough with the rough.

I have been rolling two weeks forward for the last 6 years until I really need it and the boss can't refuse :}

[The Helpful Stacker]

....i think that technically (feel free to correct me here) the mod doesnt have to give you your leave though, all to do with QRs' etc. how this would stand up though when challenged in the courts is anyones guess......

Leave used to be an privilege not an entitlement but this changed in about 2000 I believe. Personnel are entitled to leave but operational necessity may dictate that its not possible to take it and if this is the case the MoD must make allowances to recompense you for your lost leave allowance (carrying over).

Of course a better solution would be for the MoD to have to pay you for any leave not taken at the end of the year but I'm sure that would become reality shortly after a "whatever is best, sod the cost" policy is adopted by the MoD.

[Melchett01]

I want to be able to take all my leave "If I can't" then we should be payed a bonus payment at the daily rate for all the leave you haven't been able to take

I asked that very question directly to the AFPRB when they came out to theatre last summer. Their excuse, sorry reason for not accepting the suggestion (probably put to them for the hundredth time that week) was that they wanted people to take their leave and by offering a financial incentive not to take it, people would end up selling leave and the management would end be let off the hook of having to manage their troops' leave by telling them to stop whinging and think of the extra cash.

When I pointed out that the majority of us were desperate to take our leave and get away from work, but that the op tempo meant that we were unable to take it, and by being unable to sell it, we were effectively being penalised through no fault of our own.

Never did get a proper answer :uhoh:

And in answer to the original question, I haven't managed to take all my leave for the last 8 years

[WPH]

Don't forget JPA now tracks leave and it seems that leave is automatically authorised every time by 'the system'! It does make it difficult to have leave formally denied in writing if there is now no way of documenting the fact that leave has been applied for and denied! Or am I missing something?

It does seem to be a RAF thing though - our RN counterparts in JFH don't seem to have any difficulty getting their leave in, along with every Fri afternoon/ monday morning plus a few extra days here and there etc etc! :ugh:

[L J R]

If you don't apply for your leave, you are wrong!

If management is unable to give you your annual leave 'entitlement' they are wrong.

It is as simple as that!


Common sense intervenes, as not everyone can take all their leave at once, leaving the Sqn empty etc...., but if your boss etc.. is unable to plan on your absence for the full year's entitlement, he is missing the point.

Give as much notice as possbile, to plan your valuable time off, and it also gives management enough time to plan, schedule, operate without you.

Realistically, most of you THINK you cannot take leave. Admitedly it may not be at a convenient time during Sqn Ops, Dets, etc.. but no matter how important you think you are, TAKE YOUR LEAVE........

[Hueymeister]

In 17 years of devoted service to Her Majesty, I have never once been able to take my full leave ENTITLEMENT, either through being incredibly busy op-wise or not needing to. Having worked with several other NATO nations who get paid for un-taken leave, they were not encouraged by economic forces to 'sell' their leave.:cool: Bring it on...might keep the family HM in clothes..we can't afford to go on holiday these days anyway.

[BEagle]

I believe that's what the Canadians do?

[juliet]

Personnel are entitled to leave but operational necessity may dictate that its not possible to take it and if this is the case the MoD must make allowances to recompense you for your lost leave allowance (carrying over).

i think that as long as the mod can quote op tempo/necessity then they will keep shafting people when it comes to their leave. maybe it will take someone refusing to go to work until their entitled leave is honoured?

[Pontius Navigator]

If 23 people all miss 10 days leave that mans the boss has one extra man to play with. If everyone, well say a quarter, miss 10 days leave then that translates to about 450 extra men that the big cheese has to play with. If he wears green then it would be nearer a 1000 extra squadies.

Awesome. No wonder they bleat but do nothing.

[FantomZorbin]

Albeit several years ago now, I remember being told, when trying to convince an Establishment Review Board of the need for an extra SNCO. that 'as people only took about 80% of their leave in a year' then that was the figure used for calculating manpower :ugh:

The moral is: the less leave you take the greater the manpower cuts :*

Always submit despite what your boss says - and make sure you get the rejection slip returned - or whatever passes for that in the wonderful world of JPA!

[movadinkampa747]

Calm down Pontius all this talk of playing with men will do you no good.

[Pontius Navigator]

The moral is: the less leave you take the greater the manpower cuts :*

Snap. Same as I said but expressed differently.

Mova, sorry if I worried you. I tried to be new PC non-PC. May have been influenced by a tale I hear of fisticuffs last Valentine's Day.

[endplay]

The answer to that question probably depends on how old you are and what rank/specialisations you hold. Like most in my position (38 yrs & heading for the door) I've served in most areas. Hi op tempo, training, staff and now desk driving. Most of the time you can get leave in although not all of it at the ideal time of your own choice. A bit of compromise normally accomodates but that's the life we have chosen. Don't forget to factor in the gash time off as well. Black stacks, Friday early knockoffs, extended xmas grants (often 2 weeks off for 2 days leave or thereabouts).

If you want paying for any lost days then you will have to account for every hour away from work or else it is fraud.

As ever, be careful what you ask for as you just might get it.

[tarbaby]

I seem to remember that a long time ago (Beagle's time even) at Lynham town, the medics found that the aircrew when they went sick stayed sick longer that the rest of the station personel. This was put down to aircrew not taking all of their leave. The word went out that everyone had to take their leave otherwise questions would be asked.

[toddbabe]

The answer to that question probably depends on how old you are and what rank/specialisations you hold. Like most in my position (38 yrs & heading for the door) I've served in most areas. Hi op tempo, training, staff and now desk driving. Most of the time you can get leave in although not all of it at the ideal time of your own choice. A bit of compromise normally accomodates but that's the life we have chosen. Don't forget to factor in the gash time off as well. Black stacks, Friday early knockoffs, extended xmas grants (often 2 weeks off for 2 days leave or thereabouts).

If you want paying for any lost days then you will have to account for every hour away from work or else it is fraud.

As ever, be careful what you ask for as you just might get it.

Endplay you have missed the point entirely, I am not talking about gash days off or extended grants, that is an entirely sperate issue, yes we do well for days off but that does not detract away from the issue that people (lots of them) aren't able to take their full leave ENTITLEMENT!
I understand full well that compromise is needed with regards to when you may be able to take it, but just taking it all would be a bloody novelty:*
Their are far too many people out their willing to take it lying down and in fact aren't even bothered, too many people are happy spending half the year out of the country on ops and then come back to be told that you aren't getting all the leave that you are entitled to.
I AM NOT.
The army and navy don't seem to have anything like this problem, it smacks of poor management, surprise surprise!