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eghi r20
3rd Nov 2006, 07:43
Flybe are buying BA Connect according to Radio 4 news interview with Walsh... I hope ba crews will keep jobs, also hope flybe keep recruiting..:bored: Be Lucky

EGHI

endofeng
3rd Nov 2006, 08:17
Flybe to buy BACONNECT!!!

Announced today....By Flybe MD Mr.French

-------------
endofeng:ok:

scroggs
3rd Nov 2006, 08:18
BA Connect is definitely to be sold - to Flybe. From BA's own website (http://www.britishairways.com/travel/askbainter/public/en_gb?p_search_text=news):

British Airways has announced that it has reached agreement in principle to sell the regional operation of its subsidiary airline BA Connect to Flybe.

BA Connect also operates from London City Airport and between Manchester and New York. These services will not form part of the proposed sale nor will the regional ground handling business, British Airways Regional Ltd.

Willie Walsh, British Airways chief executive said: “Point to point regional operations are not a strategic part of our business and we believe that such activities are better undertaken by a regional low cost airline.

“Despite the best efforts of the entire team at BA Connect, we do not see any prospect of profitability in its current form.

“The proposed sale to Flybe provides the best opportunity to secure the long-term future for the many dedicated staff in BA Connect. British Airways will have a 15 percent investment in Flybe on completion of the disposal.

“London City services complement our mainline business at Heathrow. For this reason they are not included in the proposed sale.”

It is envisaged that once the sale of the regional business of BA Connect to Flybe is completed, there will be a transition period until the start of the summer schedule on 25 March, 2007 while the handover of responsibilities is undertaken.

To view questions and answers on the proposed sale, please click here (https://ukprepin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/ukprepin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=2410&p_sid=eaoA9Jli&p_lva=2409&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX3NvcnRfYnk9JnBfZ3JpZHNvcnQ9JnBfcm93X2NudD0 yNCZwX3Byb2RzPSZwX2NhdHM9JnBfcHY9JnBfY3Y9JnBfc2VhcmNoX3R5cGU 9YW5zd2Vycy5zZWFyY2hfbmwmcF9wYWdlPTEmcF9zZWFyY2hfdGV4dD1uZXd z&p_li=#).

What effect this will have on recruiting is unknown, but I would be surprised if recruiting isn't suspended until plans for the merged company are made clear.

Scroggs

Edit: Flybe's announcement (http://www.flybe.com/next_gen/default.htm). I see they intend to phase out the entire current BACon fleet 'as soon as possible'.

endofeng
3rd Nov 2006, 08:23
Yep,

Got email today announcing it from MD Mr.French!

Good Luck!

ps I wonder if that means they will open a base in MAN???????

---------------
endofeng:ok:

scroggs
3rd Nov 2006, 08:32
Flybe are indeed buying BA Connect. The BA announcement is here (http://www.britishairways.com/travel/askbainter/public/en_gb?p_search_text=news). This will undoubtedly have an effect on recruiting in the short term as Flybe decides its fleet and manning requirements for the combined company. While this is good news for Flybe as a company, it's not necessarily good news for the pilot communities of the two airlines and, at least in the short term, it is probably bad news for wannabes. I have yet to see an airline buyout/merger* that didn't result in a reduction in fleet numbers, types and manning - after all, Flybe is not going to maintain BACon schedules that compete with its own.

I imagine that new recruiting will be placed on hold for now. It is possible that there may be some job losses among BACon pilots, in which case union agreements will probably demand that no new recruiting takes place until those laid off have been offered their old jobs back. That could take some time - by which I mean a year or more after the merger takes effect.

Interesting further info here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=250772) and here (http://www.flybe.com/next_gen/default.htm) - particularly the part about all BACon's current fleet to be phased out. And here's (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=250774&page=2) the reaction on Pprune Rumours and News.

I would be very interested to hear what those in the hold pool for both companies are being told. I would be surprised if it's not something along the lines of, "The merger with Flybe/BACon has introduced uncertainties into our manning forecasts which will take time to resolve. Accordingly, while we will endeavour to place you on a course of training as soon as possible, we would encourage you to continue your search for positions with alternative employers in the short term." Or something like that.

Good luck, all!

Scroggs

* delete depending on your company's perspective!

angelorange
3rd Nov 2006, 08:35
The take over probably means Flybe has solved most of their shortage of experienced crew for the foreseeable. Dash 8 BACX to Q400 and 146/RJ crews to EMB 195 seems likely. How BA's 15% stake in the company will afffect further floatation in 2007 remains to be seen.

judge11
3rd Nov 2006, 08:52
Gentlemen (and ladies), your heads have been buried deeper in the sand than those who chose to stick with BACON and are now probably regretting it bitterly. If you have not taken a blind bit of notice of the innumerable threads describing the shambles that BACON had become, the mismanagement, the lies and deceit that ran throughout the company, then you are more naive than many of your postings suggest. Look elsewhere while there is still time but forget BACON - and flyBe. BACON have nearly 500 pilots to find homes for.

Sweeper 22
3rd Nov 2006, 09:08
Surely the reasons for leaving the likes of FlyBE and BACon (for those on the Dash) will remain? FlyBE have, as I’ve read, had a substantial turnover of crews in the last year and I can’t see how this, yet to be confirmed merger, will solve any of that.

Also, FlyBE still have a number of confirmed Q400’s, with options on more E195’s, which I would assume will have to be reviewed with perhaps further order’s being placed?

FlyBE appear to have quite aggressive expansion plans, this will only accelerate their intensions without getting in to a pricing war with competitors.

scroggs
3rd Nov 2006, 09:09
Actually, for Flybe to find homes for - and I'm sure they will find homes for the vast majority of them. However, that process will take some time, and new pilots are unlikely to be considered until the dust has settled completely.

Scroggs

Troy McClure
3rd Nov 2006, 09:20
another wasted year then....

scroggs
3rd Nov 2006, 09:20
The take over probably means Flybe has solved most of their shortage of experienced crew for the foreseeable. Dash 8 BACX to Q400 and 146/RJ crews to EMB 195 seems likely. How BA's 15% stake in the company will afffect further floatation in 2007 remains to be seen.

From Flybe's announcement: "The Board of Flybe has taken the decision that, in the event of the successful acquisition of BA Connect, any change to the current ownership structure should be deferred, to allow for the management team time to focus fully on the integration of the enlarged business."

So no flotation for now.

Scroggs

darkbarly
3rd Nov 2006, 10:25
Jeeeez.

Turned down very short notice request to commence type rating having been held in connect pool for some time. Commitments I could not break forced refusal. Intense disappointment :( - followed, 1 week later, by this news.

So, should I post my address here so you can all pop round and give me a good kicking - or have I avoided a possibly spectacular career catastrophy??

:ooh:

PS - Scroggs

Rather than putting words in their mouth which amount to "hard luck, keep looking elsewhere", would'nt "PPrune (members) will be observing with some interest the behaviour of this growing LCO in terms of its commitment to existing BAConnect crews, ground and support staff(and hold poolers!!!)" have sounded better?

MrMutra
3rd Nov 2006, 10:58
I really feel for all of you in the hold pool, you have been been given the :mad: shaft, but who knows what might happen tomorrow. Perhpas Flybe will be happy to take you on. Good luck and best wishes to all.

:)

scroggs
3rd Nov 2006, 11:09
Rather than putting words in their mouth which amount to "hard luck, keep looking elsewhere", would'nt "PPrune (members) will be observing with some interest the behaviour of this growing LCO in terms of its commitment to existing BAConnect crews, ground and support staff(and hold poolers!!!)" have sounded better?

If you are suggesting that surveillance by Pprune Wannabes will keep the company 'honest' in its dealings with employees and potential employees, I suspect you overestimate our influence - especially as the DfT, the Unions and the law should be quite capable of doing that without our help! My aim was simply to indicate the kind of wording they're likely to use when they eventually say "Hard luck, keep looking". If those in the hold pool get a more positive communication than that, then so much the better. Here's hoping.

Scroggs

Wee Weasley Welshman
3rd Nov 2006, 11:34
Bad news for Wannabes. Both these companies have been recruiting in recent years and this winter would have been no exception. Now I doubt they will recruit a single pilot.

darkbarly you have my deep sympathy. Its been said time and time again - never ever pass up on a job offer/course/conversion/promotion. You simply do not know what is around the corner. I missed by 26th birthday party in New York with my mates (they went without me) because of a sim ride assessment slot became available. Suffice to say had I delayed by a couple of months as was possible then Sept11th would have hit me very very hard.

Always take the first opportunity as soon as it is presented and never ever pass.


Cheers

WWW

Chesty Morgan
3rd Nov 2006, 11:45
angelorange

146/RJ crews to EMB 195 seems likely

I really hope Flybe management aren't that stupid! If they are then they will have a lot more trouble on their hands than just integrating another airline into the company.

Kanu
3rd Nov 2006, 13:29
Bad news for Wannabes. Both these companies have been recruiting in recent years and this winter would have been no exception. Now I doubt they will recruit a single pilot.



I know a lad, had his interview late last month, sim check a few days ago and he starts this month!

Never say never

Troy McClure
3rd Nov 2006, 14:03
Good for him. I had an interview September 05, passed the sim ride October 05 and b*gger all since....

MrMutra
3rd Nov 2006, 15:26
From what i understand there are quite a few in the hold pool from ocotber 2005. Unlucky to you all. But seems like they want the low cost pilot option, straight from training straight in the door on reduced wages.

:ugh:

Jetgate
3rd Nov 2006, 16:05
any ideas on what's going to happen to the folks on the end October DHC 8 course at BACON...:confused:

rogueflyer01
3rd Nov 2006, 16:14
imagine that new recruiting will be placed on hold for now

I hope you are wrong Scroggs old chap for the flybe part anyway as i have just sucessfully traversed the first 2 stages of the flybe maps scheme at jerez! :ugh:

scroggs
3rd Nov 2006, 16:33
Then you are not being recruited. You are simply being assessed for your suitability to be monitored by Flybe while you undergo training at your own expense. Once that training is complete, you may be offered selection for employment. That date is some way away, and is unlikely to be affected by today's events.

Scroggs

rogueflyer01
3rd Nov 2006, 17:38
That date is some way away, and is unlikely to be affected by today's events.



Lets hope so although from reading some of the posts from the main rumors section of pprune nothing appears to be certain in this dam industry...:ok:

Maude Charlee
3rd Nov 2006, 18:49
Given the enormous amount of natural wastage (ie, folk legging it out the front door for other airlines) in both flybe and BACON, I don't think it will be long before recruitment of fresh meat is required.

However, my bet would be that it will be delayed (causing yet another recruitment crisis) by the enormous recruitment and training headache that has now been dumped on an already struggling flight ops department in Exeter. They have barely got back on their feet since being swamped with the launch of the online recruitment process, now it seems things are heading rapidly back to square one.

So vacancies coming, but no spare resources to do anything about it but panic.

Ho hum. :rolleyes:

Thumperdown
3rd Nov 2006, 19:10
MrMutra said
'I really feel for all of you in the hold pool, you have been been given the shaft'
Those of you in the hold pool should not be 'shafted'. It would be the BA Connect intention that the pool will be sold to our new owners, who have the utmost respect for our recruitment criteria, with the rest of the company.
Regards
Thumper

Thumperdown
3rd Nov 2006, 19:21
Jetgate
The BA Connect Dash pilots currently in groundschool will continue as planned. They will progress through sim/line training and will fly the Dash Q300 until our new owners decide what to do with the aircraft and when to do it!
Regards
Thumper

speedrestriction
3rd Nov 2006, 20:20
I'd love to be a fly on the wall when they sit down to decide how the seniority list is going to be dealt with.

sr

Thumperdown
3rd Nov 2006, 22:50
Well, there are mergers and take overs. When they merge they merge and when there is a takeover then there is a takeover.
Regards
Thumper

Jetgate
4th Nov 2006, 11:24
...that's good news about the current BACON DHC8 course! Any speculation as to what might happen to the guys and gals in the pool...?

MaxReheat
4th Nov 2006, 12:21
'I'd love to be a fly on the wall when they sit down to decide how the seniority list is going to be dealt with.'

As a fly you might just be small enough for the splatters of blood to miss you.

I can't see the flyBe boys who, after all, are the 'taking-over' group being trampled on by the Connect boys. This is a take-over, not a 'merging' as was the case in BRAL/Brymon.

Big blue
4th Nov 2006, 17:26
Why would Flybe open their recruitment a week ago if they had no plans of recruiting any newbies? - doesn't make any sense. Deals take months to hammer out so they must have had a reason for opening it as they wouldn't waste their time otherwise, especially in such a busy time.

I have always thought they were a great airline and I would love to fly for them with or without this deal.

They are interested in us, don't worry we will get a chance!

speedrestriction
5th Nov 2006, 11:39
Why would Flybe open their recruitment a week ago if they had no plans of recruiting any newbies? - doesn't make any sense.

Mostly to keep their options open. It is worth remembering that:

I) The BACON deal is not signed, sealed or delivered yet.

II) New aircraft arrive monthly it is unknown how many BACON pilots will want to move over to Flybe.

III) Once the interview is complete and the sim is done, it costs nothing to have loads of people in a hold pool.


sr

EGCC4284
5th Nov 2006, 17:35
I have been told that the person dealing with recruitment within Flybe did not even know what was happening until the announcement on Friday morning. They were even expecting some pilots from BA Connect for interview next week not realising that the would be no need to interview them as there was a take over/ merger, what ever its called about to take place. All very top secret and very well to be kept quite.

EGCC4284
5th Nov 2006, 17:37
Mark Twain, can you fly an EFIS.

mark twain
5th Nov 2006, 17:47
EGCC - yes with a short conversion course!

Think it is a great move for the lowly TP guys at BACON. We lose the chances of a 145 and associated hike in salary, but in return we get greater job security, route development and new aeroplanes. Everything we needed with a proactive management and within a company that has shown its skills in the marketplace. Most of all we are still flying, and will still get paid.

Yes there are downsides, I really do not see what we have to lose, we are still gaining experience and if we do not like it we can look at moving on. I firmly believe it is a good thing, and I am fully behind it and excited by the prospect.

Before I get any flack, I am not management, and have no material motives to this. I hope that I am just being pragmatic and practical about the whole situation.

One sure thing is change in most industries - it is unsettling, but it can also be a good thing. The shame is my uniform is pretty much my only set of designer clothing!!

MT

EGCC4284
5th Nov 2006, 19:45
Mark Twain

I understand for someone who has not been with BA Connect very long, this is good news. But for those who have been in the RHS or LHS of a 145, some concern about what they are going to be flying in the near future and how much are they going to be paid for doing so.

For those who have been with BA Connect for 12 months or so on the LHS of a Dash and were hoping to jump across to a shiny jet and a £13000 pay rise, they have to realise that at least they have not just lost their jobs and that are plenty of wannabes wishing they were in their shoes right now.

Sorry if this seems a bit blunt. Those that my thoughts are with most are all the office staff at Didsbury, the BA Connect engineers, the Push back crews and all those dispatchers who are in a far more uncertain situation. Flybe's aircraft will need pilots and cabin crew so you will have a breathing space to look for another job if it doesn't suit many.

SinBin
6th Nov 2006, 08:30
I met Don Darby on Saturday, he said to me that recruitment is not affected by what has happened, recruitment is still required, 120 pilots per year for the next 4 years. Many BACon guys will be looking elsewhere partly because some are on BA salaries which cannot be matched by Flybe. Hang on in there!

MVE
6th Nov 2006, 17:36
Oh well then, if Don Derby said that, it must be true 'cos Don wouldn't tell you anything but the complete truth now would he? :hmm: ;)

500 pilots or so to come from BA Disconnect.....you do the math.....once the old jets go back to the lessors and the jet guys go onto the Q400, it will be interesting to see how many hang around; but not as interesting as how BALPA deal with the many unhappy members when/if they get shoved to the bottom of Flybe's seniority list.

All the best of luck to any BAConnect pilots and staff out there!:ok:

speedrestriction
6th Nov 2006, 19:16
I have been told that the person dealing with recruitment within Flybe did not even know what was happening until the announcement on Friday morning.

A load of tosh.

dr

EGCC4284
6th Nov 2006, 22:17
A load of tosh.


A friend of mine who fly's a Dash 8 for BA Connect had been invited for an interview with Flybe for sometime this week, if they already knew what was going to happen, why would they of offered him an interview. When he phoned to see what to do about the interview, the person said "no need to bother attending the interview" and that he / she ( being the person in charge on organising interviews ) did not know about anything about the take over / merger until Friday morning like everyone else. He was invited for this weeks interview a couple of weeks ago was intending popping down this week for it.

The only reason I am saying this is in response to the earlier post saying why had they bothered opening their web application.

I do agree that its also to keep their options open.

Cutoff
7th Nov 2006, 08:56
They opened their on-line simply because they did not know it was going to happen, just like us at Bacon.
Common sense says that this will put back new recruiting until this is sorted out.

swervin'mervin
7th Nov 2006, 11:27
I'm not so sure, just recently Flybe emailed me and sent a letter asking me to complete the online form. They must still be on the look out. The BA fleet will still be flying for a long time yet as it EVENTUALLY is replaced by new orders from Flybe (Dash and EMB), aircraft orders dont get delivered overnight. Whilst the transition occurs crews will still retire, jump ship and move on up so they have to fill the empty seats some how.

MrHorgy
7th Nov 2006, 12:22
The RJ & LCY operation will be UNAFFECTED by this merger. They are not part of the existing agreement, and according to BACon spiel will be turned into a smaller "wing" of BA. All line maintenance and crews will move over to BA, to be based possibly in Scotland. This of course might cause problems as some individuals might not want to move across the border to the north, so could open up vacancies to be filled. I believe ABZ may have been mentioned as the possible base.

Oh, and the BA1502/1503 MAN-JFK-MAN who BACon provide crew for will merge completely back into BA.

Horgy

Cutoff
7th Nov 2006, 19:46
'I'm not so sure, just recently Flybe emailed me and sent a letter asking me to complete the online form. They must still be on the look out. The BA fleet will still be flying for a long time yet as it EVENTUALLY is replaced by new orders from Flybe (Dash and EMB), aircraft orders dont get delivered overnight. Whilst the transition occurs crews will still retire, jump ship and move on up so they have to fill the empty seats some how.'

Trouble is that even more recently Flybe 'bought' Bacon and now have all sorts of issues to sort out, they have committed to off load the Bacon fleet as soon as they can, not as you say for a long time yet when they are Eventually replaced, there are Q400s ready now to be flown, and there will be some route rationalisation as there is duplication in places. The initial offload is likely to be the 145, which means no end of Q400 type ratings, extra pilots, so I suggest that it will be tough to also schedule training for new entrants into this mix too.

the aviator1977
8th Nov 2006, 08:13
Hi everyone,

Just in case you haven't done so already read page 8 of flight international
7th-13th november 2006 edition in relation to the buyout.


rgds

The Aviator1977

Han 1st Solo
9th Jan 2007, 16:19
Just wondering if anyone out there still in the dash holding pool has heard anything as to the pools future, are there many left in the pool that haven't managed to find jobs elsewhere or are there still a few of us still swimming in the hope we might not drown. :{ Hopefully we should find out something official soon and those of us still swimming will know where we stand. Anyway just thought i'd bring the thread back into discussion and share my despair. :ugh:

regards,

Han.

Troy McClure
9th Jan 2007, 20:18
Waiting since October 2005. Not so much as an e-mail......

Bonzoboy
9th Jan 2007, 20:53
Hi Guys. I would really appreciate t if anyone could shine some light on any Flybe recruitment. i.e. Has it been suspended? Are they still taking DEC's without type ratings etc.

It is all abit nerve racking for me as like some of you here I do not have a job.

Look forward to hearing something from someone. ta.

Box the Tug
9th Jan 2007, 21:08
Han

I am still swimming/drowning in the Bacon hold pool, unable to secure another job elsewhere as of yet.

I have not heard anything as to the future of the pool.

Be assured that I share your despair :{

Regards

BTT

Bonzoboy
10th Jan 2007, 01:04
Thanks Han.

Han 1st Solo
20th Feb 2007, 21:57
Hi all,

Well got an email off RH today the first contact initiated by BACon since I was notified I was in the pool asking me to update my details and if I still wanted to be part of the pool. Take it everyone in the pool got contacted, maybe theres a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel after all, well heres hoping anyway. Hopefully hear something concrete when everythings finalised at the end of Feb. :\

Regards,

Han

Cyclone733
21st Feb 2007, 10:07
http://www.nextgenerationairline.com/